Climate deniers "pigs"

Smellyman

Godfather. wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Corporations fight it because they don't want the government to expand regulation which is already quite extensive.

Speaking of myths, the biggest one out there is that corporations are free to pollute at will (edit: at least in the US).

I don't think these clowns....I mean "pigs" have any idea what large corps go through with the EPA just to stay in business, but they're (non name callers)always always talking about the big bad corps that are ruining the world...and must not have any idea what really goes on other than their wild minds going crazy

Godfather.

tells us about their woes....

catefrances

cincybearcat wrote:

...
I don't know if it's time to hit the panic button, but it is time to do more than we are. And I know polaris believes the solutions are already right in front of us, and perhaps they are, but I don't think so.

its not time to hit the panic button but it is time for some real solutions. the australian government has brought in a carbon tax which as far as i can see serves no purpose. what i would like is for the govt to implement building regulations and public transport solutions that incorporate greener measures. whats the point in charging us a tax when they are not leading by example and not putting other initiatives in place.

Zoso

catefrances wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

...
I don't know if it's time to hit the panic button, but it is time to do more than we are. And I know polaris believes the solutions are already right in front of us, and perhaps they are, but I don't think so.

its not time to hit the panic button but it is time for some real solutions. the australian government has brought in a carbon tax which as far as i can see serves no purpose. what i would like is for the govt to implement building regulations and public transport solutions that incorporate greener measures. whats the point in charging us a tax when they are not leading by example and not putting other initiatives in place.

I don't understand this carbon tax thingy.. seems like a big deal over there.

catefrances

Zoso wrote:

catefrances wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

...
I don't know if it's time to hit the panic button, but it is time to do more than we are. And I know polaris believes the solutions are already right in front of us, and perhaps they are, but I don't think so.

its not time to hit the panic button but it is time for some real solutions. the australian government has brought in a carbon tax which as far as i can see serves no purpose. what i would like is for the govt to implement building regulations and public transport solutions that incorporate greener measures. whats the point in charging us a tax when they are not leading by example and not putting other initiatives in place.

I don't understand this carbon tax thingy.. seems like a big deal over there.

thats ok we dont really understand it either. we were hearing from all directions, most loudly from the opposition, that bringing this tax in was akin to the sky falling in. i was prepared for the worst but when my winter power bill came it was only $19 higher than the previous bill. i was very pleasantly surprised.. but then again i dont use a whole lot of power anyway so if my bill had risen significantly i wouldve had to wonder exactly why.

Prince Of Dorkness

cincybearcat wrote:

I haven't heard Romney do it yet, but I'm sure he will.

Really?

You haven't seen that silly fake fund-raiser where he bought food, gave it to people and got them to give it back to him on camera so he could claim he raised $5000?

http://americablog.com/2012/10/romney-h ... tions.html

When the Red Cross had specifically said they needed money and not food?

:fp:

PJ_Soul

Climate change deniers make me feel like this:



Sometimes I can't even bear the debate.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

it's because humankind is innately stupid and selfish. if they don't see an immediate and direct result or solution from their action, they don't give a shit. and especially if there's nothing in it for them personally. how many people actually fucking take the time to recycle their tomato soup cans? not one of those people is going to sell their car and ride the bus to work in the winter, or spend thousands of dollars to green up their home.

not gonna happen. we're fucked.

PJ_Soul

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

we're fucked.

Yep. That's how I feel too ... at least 98% of the time. 2% of the time I'm just outrageously drunk enough to have a little faith. :lolno:

brianlux

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

it's because humankind is innately stupid and selfish. if they don't see an immediate and direct result or solution from their action, they don't give a shit. and especially if there's nothing in it for them personally. how many people actually fucking take the time to recycle their tomato soup cans? not one of those people is going to sell their car and ride the bus to work in the winter, or spend thousands of dollars to green up their home.

not gonna happen. we're fucked.

Wow- Honestly- these are great points here.

"Humankind is innately stupid": For the most part the last ten thousand years of our being here: stupid and fucked up. The three million years before that? Lately I've been reading that those years very well may have been mostly good and we were in balance with the rest of the deal. Maybe there are things we can learn from that.

Instant gratification: we're addicted to it. That's a hard habit to kick but the alternative offers better rewards.

Recycling: Silly isn't it? Such a basic first step. It's not universally done? That's difficult to digest- but true.

When I lived in the city: no car. Why drive there?
Here- it's pretty much a necessity although ride sharing, no drive days, excellent fuel efficiency help.

Insulation can be bought by the rich and scavenged but the not rich. Water temp and usage is easy to monitor- go camping now and then- good practice.

Yes, we're pretty much fucked but not for good I don't think. I'm guessing Mother Nature still has some balancing acts up her sleeve. And doing what we can to slow the collapse of things down makes more sense to me than major melt downs.

Godfather.

Smellyman wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Corporations fight it because they don't want the government to expand regulation which is already quite extensive.

Speaking of myths, the biggest one out there is that corporations are free to pollute at will (edit: at least in the US).

I don't think these clowns....I mean "pigs" have any idea what large corps go through with the EPA just to stay in business, but they're (non name callers)always always talking about the big bad corps that are ruining the world...and must not have any idea what really goes on other than their wild minds going crazy

Godfather.

tells us about their woes....

from my own experiance's working at small crane companys till now at a large aerospace company and working directly with the city and epa they have a tight grip on the larger corp's,new permits are common and fines for the smallest infractions and even larger fines when something goes wrong..this does not mean that the companys willfully created a problem it means that anything theycan fine them for is fair game, in 1982 I started working for a plating and painting shop that also had a polishing shop,the epa constantly created new permit rules (that cost money for the company owner) the city wanted the land the owner had his company on to make a new strip mall for the new trolly so the epa attacked him offten and for some good money till finally clossing down his business that he and his father owned for over 40 years and that cost about 125 people their jobs and some of the people working there had been with the company for 20 to 30 years but to the epa and the city that didn't matter...all they wanted was the land for the trolly that actually turned El Cajon into a getto..and I grew up in the area so I know what I'm talking about.

and large corp's are a meal ticket for the epa and state and federal government handing out fines that exceed $250 million and they are always dreaming up new permit ideas to cost the company's money and the big money comes when a corp can't impliment these new actions in time..the time the epa or government gives them to make millions of dollars in changes to their plants.

believe ne man if you don't stand in the arena you can't see the corruption our government and epa deal out the small companys and big corp's especially because they know the big corp's have the money and when the day comes that you lose your job because the epa and the government wanted money or land from the company you work for you may never understand.

Godfather.

polaris_x

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/cyclone-brings ... 28521.html

CHENNAI, India - A tropical storm weakened Thursday after slamming into southern India, bringing heavy rain and a storm surge and displacing 150,000 people. Six deaths have been reported in India and Sri Lanka.

Just before the storm made landfall Wednesday, an oil tanker with 37 crew ran aground off Chennai. One of its lifeboats capsized in the choppy waters, and one crewmember drowned, the Press Trust of India news agency reported.

On Thursday, two helicopters searched in the Bay of Bengal for the four missing crewmembers, said coast guard officer Gurdip Singh, adding that 32 crewmembers were rescued from the tanker.

Andhra Pradesh state said two people died there when their homes collapsed due to heavy rain Wednesday night in Nellore and Chittoor districts, and PTI reported another death in Tamil Nadu state, a 46-year old man who slipped into the rough sea from a pier and drowned. Sri Lanka reported two deaths earlier from the cyclone.

The cyclone had maximum winds of 75 kph (45 mph) after landfall but had weakened to a tropical depression. A storm surge of up to 1.5 metres (5 feet) was forecast to flood low-lying coastal areas, the India Meteorological Department said.

Power supply was disrupted to parts of Chennai, the capital of Tamil Nadu state, PTI said.

Heavy to very heavy rain expected, and fishermen were asked to stay at shore.

State authorities turned 282 schools into relief centres in Chennai and the city's port halted cargo operations. Twenty-three ships were moved to safer areas.

About 150,000 people were moved to shelters in Nellore, district official B. Sridhar said.

In Sri Lanka, 4,627 people were displaced by flooding and 56 fled because of a landslide threat in the island's central region. One woman died Tuesday after a tree branch fell on her while another person was killed in flooding, the nation's Disaster Management Center said. Floods also damaged about 1,000 houses, it said.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

brianlux wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

it's because humankind is innately stupid and selfish. if they don't see an immediate and direct result or solution from their action, they don't give a shit. and especially if there's nothing in it for them personally. how many people actually fucking take the time to recycle their tomato soup cans? not one of those people is going to sell their car and ride the bus to work in the winter, or spend thousands of dollars to green up their home.

not gonna happen. we're fucked.

Wow- Honestly- these are great points here.

"Humankind is innately stupid": For the most part the last ten thousand years of our being here: stupid and fucked up. The three million years before that? Lately I've been reading that those years very well may have been mostly good and we were in balance with the rest of the deal. Maybe there are things we can learn from that.

Instant gratification: we're addicted to it. That's a hard habit to kick but the alternative offers better rewards.

Recycling: Silly isn't it? Such a basic first step. It's not universally done? That's difficult to digest- but true.

When I lived in the city: no car. Why drive there?
Here- it's pretty much a necessity although ride sharing, no drive days, excellent fuel efficiency help.

Insulation can be bought by the rich and scavenged but the not rich. Water temp and usage is easy to monitor- go camping now and then- good practice.

Yes, we're pretty much fucked but not for good I don't think. I'm guessing Mother Nature still has some balancing acts up her sleeve. And doing what we can to slow the collapse of things down makes more sense to me than major melt downs.

it's because for most of humankind's existence, our species took and used what we needed. You didn't see a caveman killing a mammoth just for fun. he had to work for it, respected the circle of life, and killed what he needed for food and clothing. we don't need that shit anymore, but we do it MORE.

"I need to drive a 10 ton tank around because I may haul one 2x4 every month or so". They wanna look like that tough guy on the Dodge Ram commercial.

I do my best to recycle everything that should be. But as, I think it was polaris, maybe someone else, said, we're all hypocrites. I leave my computer on overnight sometimes, if I'm downloading something or if I plain out forget. I leave lights on sometimes. I take my mini van when I could take my compact car.

it's a culture of wants and we're all guilty of it, it just depends on degree. Some people don't care at all, and are downright reckless, some care a little, and some live like gypsys (I have a friend who reuses her bathwater for her kids for a week). Unfortunately, those that do the most in this world are seen by the masses as freaks who are a subculture of society, when in reality, they are the ones who should be revered for their dedication to our survival.

Without Earth, we die. But since it's almost certain to happen after we're gone, it's not immediate enough to worry about for most. And when it is immediate enough to take action, it will be WAY too late.

As Awnold once said: "it's in your nature to destroy yourselves". too bad we're taking every other living being with us.

pandora

How come normal never changes?

Normal high? Normal low? Normal rainfall?
shouldn't Georgia's normal total rainfall have gone down in the past 22 years?
We have been in a drought with much less than 'normal' rainfall since I got here,
yet normal is not changing. Bugs me.

Is this because, looking at the very big picture, what happens in anyone's given lifetime
is a drop in the bucket compared to the lifetime of Earth?
Maybe just maybe this is written in a black book somewhere...
turbulent times are normal for now.


and what's with this new normal crap? :? I guess the new catch phrase :fp:
I hope the weather statistics catch up and...

yes people are getting filthy rich off Global Warming and Al Gore...
patuey

riotgrl

This is an interesting perspective on climate change and how it may have impacted Hurricane Sandy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2012/oct/30/hurricane-sandy-supersized-climate-change

Interesting also, that he ends the piece by stating that we have a presidential election in which neither major party candidate has really addressed the climate in their campaign. At least until Sandy occurred.

Zoso

riotgrl wrote:

This is an interesting perspective on climate change and how it may have impacted Hurricane Sandy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2012/oct/30/hurricane-sandy-supersized-climate-change

Interesting also, that he ends the piece by stating that we have a presidential election in which neither major party candidate has really addressed the climate in their campaign. At least until Sandy occurred.

interesting article.. it's undeniable really.

polaris_x

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

it's a culture of wants and we're all guilty of it, it just depends on degree. Some people don't care at all, and are downright reckless, some care a little, and some live like gypsys (I have a friend who reuses her bathwater for her kids for a week). Unfortunately, those that do the most in this world are seen by the masses as freaks who are a subculture of society, when in reality, they are the ones who should be revered for their dedication to our survival.

ya ... the thing that gets me too is the whole hypocritical attack ... the whole ... does anyone use a laptop and care for the enviroment - well, you're a hypocrite ... that stuff is the worst ...

and riotgirl - all this stuff has been in the science for years ... i find it troubling that many people who deny global warming also feel that if it is happening, technology will save us ... yet, they ignore the basis by which technology is derived - science! ... science is telling us we are fucked ...

brianlux

polaris_x wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

it's a culture of wants and we're all guilty of it, it just depends on degree. Some people don't care at all, and are downright reckless, some care a little, and some live like gypsys (I have a friend who reuses her bathwater for her kids for a week). Unfortunately, those that do the most in this world are seen by the masses as freaks who are a subculture of society, when in reality, they are the ones who should be revered for their dedication to our survival.

ya ... the thing that gets me too is the whole hypocritical attack ... the whole ... does anyone use a laptop and care for the enviroment - well, you're a hypocrite ... that stuff is the worst ...

and riotgirl - all this stuff has been in the science for years ... i find it troubling that many people who deny global warming also feel that if it is happening, technology will save us ... yet, they ignore the basis by which technology is derived - science! ... science is telling us we are fucked ...

I guess you could say we are all hypocrites to some degree but it's not a black and white issue. Each of us can make an effort to conserve more and it all ads up. If everyone living in (or like) the developed world made an effort to conserve more it would add up hugely. As far as living like Hugh's friend- that is highly admirable but easier said than done. I lived in a mostly parked vehicle for a couple of years not out of choice. It was a pretty low-impact lifestyle but have to say, if I had done it as an experiment it would not have lasted that long. It's very hard to live that way in- at least in most parts of the U.S. Finding a place to park the vehicle, obtaining basic necessities, keeping healthy- everything is a major challenge. It's not like you can just become a hunter-gatherer. So the reasonable thing is to do as much as we can.

And yes, polaris_x and riotgrl, these kinds of storms have been predicted for many years. I knew well a meteorologist who over twenty years ago predicted these kinds of storms and he was absolutely right. None of this should come as a surprise. We've had the knowledge of this coming for too long to plead innocence. The temptation to say "I told you so" is strong and I have to resist doing so. More importantly, lets all work harder together at making some changes.

polaris_x

guessing with sandy bringing gw back in the news - cheques are being written once again to some PR company ... expect another global warming is a fraud article to come out shortly which will get circulated to the usual suspects ...

dignin

polaris_x wrote:

guessing with sandy bringing gw back in the news - cheques are being written once again to some PR company ... expect another global warming is a fraud article to come out shortly which will get circulated to the usual suspects ...

Surprise!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10 ... cientists/

cincybearcat

brianlux wrote:

I guess you could say we are all hypocrites to some degree

Hell yeah you are. Where does all that paper come from for those books you sell!!!!!