Climate deniers "pigs"

Zoso

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/3 ... 48861.html

I'm not into name calling those who don't believe the facts but I'm sick of people not believeing what is right before their eyes.. it's ignorance pure and simple.

polaris_x

well ... that isn't going to help ...

but yeah - it's always been about ignorance ... combine that with the lack of critical thinking and partisan indoctrination and you have a formula that basically allows corporations to dictate policy and public opinion ...

cincybearcat

polaris_x wrote:

well ... that isn't going to help ...

but yeah - it's always been about ignorance ... combine that with the lack of critical thinking and partisan indoctrination and you have a formula that basically allows corporations to dictate policy and public opinion ...

I know you are on a far spectrum away from me on this issue as well, though I am on your side of the fence at least.

It is pretty amazing to me, that in my line of work (which a portion involves Environment and Sustainability) I run into a decent number of people...not sure the exact %, but at least 20%...of people that are very intelligent, understand science and especially environmental science and they think it is all 100% bs.

I don't know if it's time to hit the panic button, but it is time to do more than we are. And I know polaris believes the solutions are already right in front of us, and perhaps they are, but I don't think so.

cincybearcat

The ironic thing about this is, someone here wondered how Obama would use Sandy for political gain...well...here it is.

It's what politicians do, use things for political gain. Never bet against it. I haven't heard Romney do it yet, but I'm sure he will.

polaris_x

cincybearcat wrote:

I know you are on a far spectrum away from me on this issue as well, though I am on your side of the fence at least.

It is pretty amazing to me, that in my line of work (which a portion involves Environment and Sustainability) I run into a decent number of people...not sure the exact %, but at least 20%...of people that are very intelligent, understand science and especially environmental science and they think it is all 100% bs.

I don't know if it's time to hit the panic button, but it is time to do more than we are. And I know polaris believes the solutions are already right in front of us, and perhaps they are, but I don't think so.

the solutions are indeed in front of us ... but we need to get our heads out of our asses ... and when i see an entire presidential campaign run without even a mention of the environment and when one of the main candidates is pushing the corporate line of inconclusive ... well, that gives me very little hope ...

polaris_x

cincybearcat wrote:

The ironic thing about this is, someone here wondered how Obama would use Sandy for political gain...well...here it is.

It's what politicians do, use things for political gain. Never bet against it. I haven't heard Romney do it yet, but I'm sure he will.

if that is the case - how is it relevant? ... i mean ... what's obama supposed to do? ... nothing? ... frig - all one can hope for is that people can judge accordingly ... look at giuliani - the guy was a shmuck but once 9/11 came .... he exploited the shit out of it ...

BinauralJam

http://saratogian.com/articles/2012/10/ ... 794134.txt

Andrew Cuomo

cincybearcat

polaris_x wrote:

]

and when i see an entire presidential campaign run without even a mention of the environment

Yeah, that was kinda weird. I think when the economy is in the shitter and their are wars going on, people tend to focus on only those 2 things and little else.

brianlux

I agree that name calling doesn't help but the feeling one gets when looking at the one factor that drives coal and oil companies to deny climate change- greed- that tempts me greatly to use words like "pig". It's flat out about greed. Many of us are just done with hearing the flimsy excuses to put off efforts to stem this problem, done with hearing the denial of what is overwhelmingly accepted by climate science. We're sick of hearing these flimsy unfounded arguments against the idea of anthropogenic global warming and we're saddened to see people suffering needlessly in the wake of Sandy when some of us have been talking about this and trying to encourage changes for 30 or more years. But we'll keep trying make the changes necessary to lower carbon emissions because it's real and it's not going to go away with magical thinking.

Good job, Chris Matthews.

polaris_x

cincybearcat wrote:

Yeah, that was kinda weird. I think when the economy is in the shitter and their are wars going on, people tend to focus on only those 2 things and little else.

the environment is the economy ... it's all tied together ... nearly every issue can be tied back to the environment but its something that people don't want to talk about because it goes against the corporate mandate ...

who's gonna pay for the $20 billion in damages from Sandy? ... what about the recent droughts? ...

Thirty Bills Unpaid

And industrialists push forward without heed.

We have a mine proposal facing our community. Mine advocates talk of the jobs and all the money that will come into our community... but they don't talk of 3 things that have me want to slap someone:

1. The big, massive hole that will decorate our landscape.
2. The billions of gallons of fresh water that will be needed for operations.
3. The massive need for hydroelectricity for operations.

Come on, Man! The earth does not owe us a living. Stop destroying it so that we can make a short term buck.

cincybearcat

polaris_x wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Yeah, that was kinda weird. I think when the economy is in the shitter and their are wars going on, people tend to focus on only those 2 things and little else.

the environment is the economy ... it's all tied together ... nearly every issue can be tied back to the environment but its something that people don't want to talk about because it goes against the corporate mandate ...

who's gonna pay for the $20 billion in damages from Sandy? ... what about the recent droughts? ...

Yeah I get it, I know it is part of it. I was trying to say people think very short-term and not very broadly when they don't have a job.

Black Diamond

polaris_x wrote:

well ... that isn't going to help ...

but yeah - it's always been about ignorance ... combine that with the lack of critical thinking and partisan indoctrination and you have a formula that basically allows corporations to dictate policy and public opinion ...

Not about ignorance... It's about money... When green becomes green (as Jeffrey Immelt is trying to do)... All will buy in

cincybearcat

Black Diamond wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

well ... that isn't going to help ...

but yeah - it's always been about ignorance ... combine that with the lack of critical thinking and partisan indoctrination and you have a formula that basically allows corporations to dictate policy and public opinion ...

Not about ignorance... It's about money... When green becomes green (as Jeffrey Immelt is trying to do)... All will buy in

And that is the solution I am talking about that isn't currently in front of us.

polaris_x

Black Diamond wrote:

Not about ignorance... It's about money... When green becomes green (as Jeffrey Immelt is trying to do)... All will buy in

money is definitely the motivator for the corporations that are playing the PR gain ... but it doesn't explain why a huge % of americans still don't believe in global warming ... that is ignorance ...

Black Diamond

polaris_x wrote:

Black Diamond wrote:

Not about ignorance... It's about money... When green becomes green (as Jeffrey Immelt is trying to do)... All will buy in

money is definitely the motivator for the corporations that are playing the PR gain ... but it doesn't explain why a huge % of americans still don't believe in global warming ... that is ignorance ...

Because like the OJ trial, a significant portion of Americans believe that if there is any shroud of doubt, it must be wrong or a conspiracy...
It also helps explain the vigorous defense of religious beliefs which are hardened by "possible" holes in the scientific argument... I guess you are calling that ignorance, I would use the terms blind faith and paranoia...

polaris_x

cincybearcat wrote:

And that is the solution I am talking about that isn't currently in front of us.

this is the problem ... the foundation by which we make our decisions is fundamentally flawed ...

we are way too short sighted as a society ... we never consider the consequences or the impacts of our decisions ... i mean - think about it ... we all live and die by a fucking economic indicator ... gdp ... if we don't see "growth" ... everyone is up in arms and the sky is falling ... it's totally ridiculous ...

the funny thing is that green is indeed green ... i've convinced my company that is run by all conservatives to adopt a sustainability plan because it does make financial and economic sense ... not everyone does it now because they never really looked at the true economics of it ... why do you think walmart has such a green PR campaign? ... it's because going green is smart business ...

the environment shouldn't be a partisan issue ... but it has because people have allowed it to be and the only people laughing are big multi-national corporations who continue to exploit and support excess instead of prudence ...

polaris_x

Black Diamond wrote:

Because like the OJ trial, a significant portion of Americans believe that if there is any shroud of doubt, it must be wrong or a conspiracy...
It also helps explain the vigorous defense of religious beliefs which are hardened by "possible" holes in the scientific argument... I guess you are calling that ignorance, I would use the terms blind faith and paranoia...

it's all ignorance ... you wouldn't be paranoid (unless you have a condition) or exhibit blind faith if you weren't ignorant ... it all boils down to it ... whether it be racism or the environment ... if people educate themselves on an issue - they are less likely to be coerced by any particular agenda ...

Black Diamond

polaris_x wrote:

Black Diamond wrote:

Because like the OJ trial, a significant portion of Americans believe that if there is any shroud of doubt, it must be wrong or a conspiracy...
It also helps explain the vigorous defense of religious beliefs which are hardened by "possible" holes in the scientific argument... I guess you are calling that ignorance, I would use the terms blind faith and paranoia...

it's all ignorance ... you wouldn't be paranoid (unless you have a condition) or exhibit blind faith if you weren't ignorant ... it all boils down to it ... whether it be racism or the environment ... if people educate themselves on an issue - they are less likely to be coerced by any particular agenda ...

Yeah but who is doing the educating?

polaris_x

Black Diamond wrote:

Yeah but who is doing the educating?

well ... unfortunately, especially in the US, that "education" is being done at the behest of corporate agendas ... whether it be PR campaigns, sold out politicians, think-tanks, a failed journalism culture or whatever ...

mikepegg44

polaris_x wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

The ironic thing about this is, someone here wondered how Obama would use Sandy for political gain...well...here it is.

It's what politicians do, use things for political gain. Never bet against it. I haven't heard Romney do it yet, but I'm sure he will.

if that is the case - how is it relevant? ... i mean ... what's obama supposed to do? ... nothing? ... frig - all one can hope for is that people can judge accordingly ... look at giuliani - the guy was a shmuck but once 9/11 came .... he exploited the shit out of it ...

wait, are you telling me that Giuliani was a 9/11 hero? He is so modest I never hear him mention it.

I don't think there is anything wrong with making tragedies political really. If someone believes they are a result of an issue that is political, there needs to be attention brought to it. But using it for personal gain when it isn't something that you believe in or would take the other side if there was as much to gain...that is despicable...I think a guy like Gore certainly comes to mind. I never understand how someone can live so high on the hog and talk about all the things others should be doing. Subsistence living would be pretty damn easy with that much money...he could at least try it.

I don't think anyone can truly argue that the world isn't getting warmer. This could be (probably) is having a huge effect. The argument shouldn't be about its cause, but about what, if anything, can we do, and at what cost, both financially and socially, can we do it to not cause more harm in another area than good in the direction of the problem we are trying to solve...

The argument has been framed the way it has for profit and personal gain on BOTH sides...of this I am in no doubt, and it has set the solutions that could have been possible back. It is a problem involving a lot of things, but mostly that big business (oil and green) have the ears of too many politicians.