Climate deniers "pigs"
Zoso
Posts: 6,425
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/3 ... 48861.html
I'm not into name calling those who don't believe the facts but I'm sick of people not believeing what is right before their eyes.. it's ignorance pure and simple.
I'm not into name calling those who don't believe the facts but I'm sick of people not believeing what is right before their eyes.. it's ignorance pure and simple.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
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but yeah - it's always been about ignorance ... combine that with the lack of critical thinking and partisan indoctrination and you have a formula that basically allows corporations to dictate policy and public opinion ...
I know you are on a far spectrum away from me on this issue as well, though I am on your side of the fence at least.
It is pretty amazing to me, that in my line of work (which a portion involves Environment and Sustainability) I run into a decent number of people...not sure the exact %, but at least 20%...of people that are very intelligent, understand science and especially environmental science and they think it is all 100% bs.
I don't know if it's time to hit the panic button, but it is time to do more than we are. And I know polaris believes the solutions are already right in front of us, and perhaps they are, but I don't think so.
It's what politicians do, use things for political gain. Never bet against it. I haven't heard Romney do it yet, but I'm sure he will.
the solutions are indeed in front of us ... but we need to get our heads out of our asses ... and when i see an entire presidential campaign run without even a mention of the environment and when one of the main candidates is pushing the corporate line of inconclusive ... well, that gives me very little hope ...
if that is the case - how is it relevant? ... i mean ... what's obama supposed to do? ... nothing? ... frig - all one can hope for is that people can judge accordingly ... look at giuliani - the guy was a shmuck but once 9/11 came .... he exploited the shit out of it ...
Andrew Cuomo
Yeah, that was kinda weird. I think when the economy is in the shitter and their are wars going on, people tend to focus on only those 2 things and little else.
Good job, Chris Matthews.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
the environment is the economy ... it's all tied together ... nearly every issue can be tied back to the environment but its something that people don't want to talk about because it goes against the corporate mandate ...
who's gonna pay for the $20 billion in damages from Sandy? ... what about the recent droughts? ...
We have a mine proposal facing our community. Mine advocates talk of the jobs and all the money that will come into our community... but they don't talk of 3 things that have me want to slap someone:
1. The big, massive hole that will decorate our landscape.
2. The billions of gallons of fresh water that will be needed for operations.
3. The massive need for hydroelectricity for operations.
Come on, Man! The earth does not owe us a living. Stop destroying it so that we can make a short term buck.
Yeah I get it, I know it is part of it. I was trying to say people think very short-term and not very broadly when they don't have a job.
And that is the solution I am talking about that isn't currently in front of us.
money is definitely the motivator for the corporations that are playing the PR gain ... but it doesn't explain why a huge % of americans still don't believe in global warming ... that is ignorance ...
It also helps explain the vigorous defense of religious beliefs which are hardened by "possible" holes in the scientific argument... I guess you are calling that ignorance, I would use the terms blind faith and paranoia...
this is the problem ... the foundation by which we make our decisions is fundamentally flawed ...
we are way too short sighted as a society ... we never consider the consequences or the impacts of our decisions ... i mean - think about it ... we all live and die by a fucking economic indicator ... gdp ... if we don't see "growth" ... everyone is up in arms and the sky is falling ... it's totally ridiculous ...
the funny thing is that green is indeed green ... i've convinced my company that is run by all conservatives to adopt a sustainability plan because it does make financial and economic sense ... not everyone does it now because they never really looked at the true economics of it ... why do you think walmart has such a green PR campaign? ... it's because going green is smart business ...
the environment shouldn't be a partisan issue ... but it has because people have allowed it to be and the only people laughing are big multi-national corporations who continue to exploit and support excess instead of prudence ...
it's all ignorance ... you wouldn't be paranoid (unless you have a condition) or exhibit blind faith if you weren't ignorant ... it all boils down to it ... whether it be racism or the environment ... if people educate themselves on an issue - they are less likely to be coerced by any particular agenda ...
well ... unfortunately, especially in the US, that "education" is being done at the behest of corporate agendas ... whether it be PR campaigns, sold out politicians, think-tanks, a failed journalism culture or whatever ...
wait, are you telling me that Giuliani was a 9/11 hero? He is so modest I never hear him mention it.
I don't think there is anything wrong with making tragedies political really. If someone believes they are a result of an issue that is political, there needs to be attention brought to it. But using it for personal gain when it isn't something that you believe in or would take the other side if there was as much to gain...that is despicable...I think a guy like Gore certainly comes to mind. I never understand how someone can live so high on the hog and talk about all the things others should be doing. Subsistence living would be pretty damn easy with that much money...he could at least try it.
I don't think anyone can truly argue that the world isn't getting warmer. This could be (probably) is having a huge effect. The argument shouldn't be about its cause, but about what, if anything, can we do, and at what cost, both financially and socially, can we do it to not cause more harm in another area than good in the direction of the problem we are trying to solve...
The argument has been framed the way it has for profit and personal gain on BOTH sides...of this I am in no doubt, and it has set the solutions that could have been possible back. It is a problem involving a lot of things, but mostly that big business (oil and green) have the ears of too many politicians.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
both sides!??
this is frustrating ... an oil company spending millions of dollars on spreading lies in order to continually exploit an archaic resource and mass profits is the same as some outfit trying to protect polar bears!?? ...
No I agree. And I agree that Green can make you $. But not everywhere yet. And I also think that some "green" initiatives are also short sighted and don;t actually look at total life cycle. So some companies are claiming gains but really they are just pushing off the environmental impacts onto others or into other areas.
You are right this is frustrating. I suppose all people in the green energy business are in it for the right reasons? Al Gore must do all his work for free, simply because it is the right thing to do. It isn't possible that a research agency looking to find global warming patterns would cherry pick data. I don't really need to list off the green energy companies who have received millions in gov't funding and gone bankrupt do I? They exploited something for personal gain, motivations aside. Thanks for missing my point and continuing the cycle of arguing against another side because they are the wrong ones in an argument that has no pragmatic purpose. Gotta keep the troops motivated I guess. (anyone who can tell me where that line is from gets a HUGE gold star)
I am not sure if you realized that I agreed with you in that we need to find solutions and attempt to solve the warming earth problem rather than argue about its cause. Natural or man made doesn't really matter, let's try to minimize the affects of what we do...that is what I would like to see happen.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
good grief ... the same bs talking points from the right ... yeah - it is frustrating ... how did solyndra ever get tied into being the other side to big oil!?? ... the other side are environmentalists ... scientists ... not for profits ... not fucking other corporations ...
the cause is important because you will never find a solution unless you know what the problem is ... saying that it doesn't matter is absurd ... it's like a bunch of smokers get lung cancer and we ignore that fact because we don't want to deal with it? ... how does not looking at the cause help?
Speaking of myths, the biggest one out there is that corporations are free to pollute at will (edit: at least in the US).
Arguing over the cause of the cause doesn't help, I guess I should have put it that way. Arguing with someone who is saying should put our energy into finding solutions rather than continually trying to explain quantum physics to a rock is also a waste of time.
Greenhouse gases have been identified as being a cause. Man made or simply the earth doing it doesn't matter. Saying the earth is warming and looking for solutions is a better use of resources in my opinion. I didn't say solyndra, you did. I just mentioned businesses that were start ups that started simply because there was green initiative money to be had that had no real hope of surviving or making a difference. If you don't think there are people looking to exploit Green energy initiatives for personal gain I don't know what else to tell you. the Climate is changing, some say it is man made, some say it isn't, but either way, why not do something about it if we can? I have never seen someone argue with someone who agrees that stuff should be done.
Incidentally, GE is a corporation. But they aren't looking to make a profit with green energy I guess, do they fall under the environmentalist, scientist, or non profit category?
...Can you honestly look at your computer screen, imagine my eyes and then look into them and tell me that no one on your "side" is attempting to profit from green initiatives simply for personal gain? That it simply isn't possible that someone would embellish or elaborate consequences for personal gain?
When have you ever known me to simply spout the same old BS talking points, seriously. Read what I wrote, if you think that is a normal comment from someone on the right than I didn't explain my point very well. But again, continue to argue that one "side"" is more noble than the other...that usually helps get a point across...
I don't know about you, but hypothetically, I do much better when someone asks for help rather than tells me that I am too stupid to see that help is needed because I asked a clarifying question...
thinking that it is possible for gov'ts to solve this problem is something I would argue, not the problem itself.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
ok ... you said: "green energy companies who have received millions in gov't funding and gone bankrupt do I?"
if you aren't talking about solyndra who are you talking about then?
and you brought up al gore ... how many times have we heard mitt talk about this? ... i'm calling it like i see it ... the right love to talk about solyndra and how big of a house al gore has ... if you aren't bringing up the same old bs talking points - what are you doing then?
and again - so, someone decides they are going to exploit green issues and make a profit ... what do you want me to say? ... i don't really care for those people ... fuck them along with GE, exxon or whoever ...
and i'm sorry but how can we fix the problem if we don't know what it is!? ... ok - so, you agree its greenhouse gases ... well ... don't you think we need to know if its man made or naturally occurring? ... how else do you fix a problem!? ... it's like you have a gas leak in your car ... don't you want to know where it's leaking?
Godfather.
while I wouldn't go out and name call.. science is science it's crazy to me that people don't believe in scientific facts.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
I don't think these clowns....I mean "pigs" have any idea what large corps go through with the EPA just to stay in business, but they're (non name callers)always always talking about the big bad corps that are ruining the world...and must not have any idea what really goes on other than their wild minds going crazy
Godfather.