I heard one big difference between the two candidates.
One said, "I will sit down with the other side..."
The other, "I will take ideas from anywhere..."
This has been one thing that I think we all find annoying, how partisan it's all become. As Jon Stewart said, "We are governed by the extremes because all of us in the middle are too busy working!"
And now we have "a record" we can look at. Obama simply does not work with people. He was not in congress long enough, or simply doesn't care enough, to know how to get things done. He had a democratic congress for his first 2 years ... and he couldn't even work with them. He outsourced Health Care Reform to Reid and Pelosi. Not a single democrat would even vote for the president's budget.
I was at the LBJ presidential library last spring and was rocked by how hard that man worked. He had spent a lifetime in politics, true, but he still did the work. Put in two full workdays for everyone else's one. He worked the phones, walked the capitol, sat down with his opponents, compromised...
Obama's style is simply to invite the opposition to a speech and dress them down in public. His first days in office are framed by his simple declaration while working out the stimulus package, "I won." All debate was seemingly settled on Nov 4.
I heard one big difference between the two candidates.
One said, "I will sit down with the other side..."
The other, "I will take ideas from anywhere..."
This has been one thing that I think we all find annoying, how partisan it's all become. As Jon Stewart said, "We are governed by the extremes because all of us in the middle are too busy working!"
And now we have "a record" we can look at. Obama simply does not work with people. He was not in congress long enough, or simply doesn't care enough, to know how to get things done. He had a democratic congress for his first 2 years ... and he couldn't even work with them. He outsourced Health Care Reform to Reid and Pelosi. Not a single democrat would even vote for the president's budget.
I was at the LBJ presidential library last spring and was rocked by how hard that man worked. He had spent a lifetime in politics, true, but he still did the work. Put in two full workdays for everyone else's one. He worked the phones, walked the capitol, sat down with his opponents, compromised...
Obama's style is simply to invite the opposition to a speech and dress them down in public. His first days in office are framed by his simple declaration while working out the stimulus package, "I won." All debate was seemingly settled on Nov 4.
Secondly, the Republicans did not want to work with him. Period. Nothing in their behavior has shown other wise. Mitch McConnell from an interview in the Naitonal Journal in October of 2010:
NJ: What’s the job?
McConnell: The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.
NJ: Does that mean endless, or at least frequent, confrontation with the president?
McConnell: If President Obama does a Clintonian backflip, if he’s willing to meet us halfway on some of the biggest issues, it’s not inappropriate for us to do business with him.
"If he's willing to meet us halfway" is a bull shit statement that really reads: "our way or the highway."
Obama was painted as a radical; but, liberals/progressives were incredibly upset with him because he was clearly governing form the center. This invalidates McConnell's bull shit.
"Obama's style is simply to invite the opposition to a speech and dress them down in public. His first days in office are framed by his simple declaration while working out the stimulus package, "I won." All debate was seemingly settled on Nov 4."
To be polite, I simply disagree.
He has a pretty basic Republican idealogy so if you are a blue you probably don't want to hear it
Right. He only votes blue when he is in a blue state and pandering to the locals.
Yes he has proven he can bring the blues with him and together they can get it done!
That must be what you mean yes?
No, he has proven he can become governor, take credit for everything even though he really did nothing except get his healthcare bill enacted (you know, that pesky little Obamacare microcosm he so loves to distance himself from), and then act like he was the greatest thing to ever happen to the state.
LOL at him trying to take ANY credit for the state of education and the economy in MA.
So no, you can, once again, stop twisting my words in a blatantly baiting and manipulative way.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Right. He only votes blue when he is in a blue state and pandering to the locals.
Yes he has proven he can bring the blues with him and together they can get it done!
That must be what you mean yes?
No, he has proven he can become governor, take credit for everything even though he really did nothing except get his healthcare bill enacted (you know, that pesky little Obamacare microcosm he so loves to distance himself from), and then act like he was the greatest thing to ever happen to the state.
LOL at him trying to take ANY credit for the state of education and the economy in MA.
So no, you can, once again, stop twisting my words in a blatantly baiting and manipulative way.
Wow you must think people are very devious including me
goodness...
and goodness does exist most especially in a positive mind, I prefer to see that.
His State government health plan was used as a model for Obamacare
but we know what states can do does not necessarily work
or hold true for the Feds.
Somehow with them is turns into another form of taxation ... go figure.
Hey don't hate me though cause I am not true blue
I am purple through and through....
that kind of purple with a little more red than blue in it, a truly lovely color....
process magenta
They didn't even bring up 47%, Bain or women's rights. It was geard to Mitt and he still had to lie through his teeth! The only way he could do better is if the next one includes made up planets and magic underwear!Mitt's five most outrageous statements:
1. "I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut." Romney flatly lied about the cost of his proposal to cut income-tax rates across the board by another 20 percent (undercutting even the low rates of the Bush tax cuts). Independent economists at the Tax Policy Center have shown that the price tag for those cuts is $360 billion in the first year, a cost that extrapolates to $5 trillion over a decade.
2. "I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans." Romney has claimed that he will pay for his tax cuts by closing a variety of loopholes and deductions. The factual problem? Romney hasn't named a single loophole he's willing to close; worse, there's no way to offset $5 trillion in tax cuts even if you get rid of the entire universe of deductions for the wealthy that Romney has not put off the table (like the carried interest loophole or the 15 percent capital gains rate.) The Tax Policy Center report concludes that Romney's proposal would create a "net tax cut for high-income tax payers and a net tax increase for lower- and or middle-income taxpayers." Moreover, some of Romney's tax cuts are micro-targeted at American dynasties, particularly his proposal to eliminate the estate tax, which would reduce his own sons' tax burden by tens of millions of dollars.
3. "We've got 23 million people out of work or [who have] stopped looking for work in this country." Romney is lying for effect. The nation's crisis of joblessness is bad, but not 23 million bad. The official figure is 12.5 million unemployed. An additional 2.6 million Americans have stopped looking for jobs. How does Romney gin up his eye-popping 23 million figure? He counts more than 8 million wage earners who hold part-time jobs as also being "out of work."
4. Obamacare "puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have." Romney is reviving Sarah Palin's old death panels lie here. Obamacare does establish an Independent Payment Advisory Board to help constrain the growth of Medicare spending. The body has no authority to dictate the practices of the private insurance marketplace. And the law also makes explicit that this body is banned from rationing care or limiting medical benefits to seniors.
5. "Pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan." In the biggest whopper of the night, Romney suggested that his health care proposal would guarantee coverage to Americans with pre-existing conditions. This is just not true. Under Romney, if you have a pre-existing condition and have been unable to obtain insurance coverage or if you have had to drop coverage for more than 90 days because you lost your job or couldn't afford the premiums, you would be shit out of luck. Insurance companies could continue to discriminate and deny you coverage, as even Romney's top adviser conceded after the debate was over.
Attack the man's religion. Ridicule his religious beliefs because they aren't your own.
He had a democratic congress for his first 2 years ... and he couldn't even work with them. He outsourced Health Care Reform to Reid and Pelosi. Not a single democrat would even vote for the president's budget.
Who said super-majority? Who said fillibuster proof? Not I -- it is entirely factually correct that the Majority Leader of the Senate has been Democrat Senator Harry Reid -- who refuses to bring a budget up -- for the past SIX years, including the first two of the President's term. He sets the agenda of the Senate.
Likewise with Pelosi, Speaker from 2006-2010, setting the agenda of the House.
That's a Democrat controlled Congress. Try telling me Democrats can't get things done with an obstinate obstructionist minority in Congress, I live in freakin CA where they've been running us into the ground for over 30 years!
He had a democratic congress for his first 2 years ... and he couldn't even work with them. He outsourced Health Care Reform to Reid and Pelosi. Not a single democrat would even vote for the president's budget.
Who said super-majority? Who said fillibuster proof? Not I -- it is entirely factually correct that the Majority Leader of the Senate has been Democrat Senator Harry Reid -- who refuses to bring a budget up -- for the past SIX years, including the first two of the President's term. He sets the agenda of the Senate.
Likewise with Pelosi, Speaker from 2006-2010, setting the agenda of the House.
That's a Democrat controlled Congress. Try telling me Democrats can't get things done with an obstinate obstructionist minority in Congress, I live in freakin CA where they've been running us into the ground for over 30 years!
Okay. I thought you were going the super-majority/filibuster route. My apologies for misreading.
That said, he still needed republican votes. Objectively speaking, and even with republican ideas being embraced by Obama, no republican wanted to work with him.
He had a democratic congress for his first 2 years ... and he couldn't even work with them. He outsourced Health Care Reform to Reid and Pelosi. Not a single democrat would even vote for the president's budget.
Who said super-majority? Who said fillibuster proof? Not I -- it is entirely factually correct that the Majority Leader of the Senate has been Democrat Senator Harry Reid -- who refuses to bring a budget up -- for the past SIX years, including the first two of the President's term. He sets the agenda of the Senate.
Likewise with Pelosi, Speaker from 2006-2010, setting the agenda of the House.
That's a Democrat controlled Congress. Try telling me Democrats can't get things done with an obstinate obstructionist minority in Congress, I live in freakin CA where they've been running us into the ground for over 30 years!
Take it from a former Californian: Get out!!!!! While you still can.
if you have a job, no matter if it's 1 day a week or 7, you are employed, because you have a job.
Oh, goodie. Then the jobs plan should be to take all jobs and divy them 7 ways. That way, we won't just have 0% unemployment, folks will be able to have 3, 4 and 5 jobs AND still have time to see their families.
there's really no need for that. I just thought it was odd to have the notion that not working full time equals being unemployed.
This NBCnews.com article seems to be lumping them together. I've never taken NBC as a right wing nut paper. But, maybe it is now. You tell me.
the debate was was awesome ! obama showed the people he is a great talker with personality...but that's it,
he's also a liar,Romney shot him down at least 2 or 3 times and every time you could see the embarresment in Obama's face,Obama also tryed to control the debate using his position as president to run up the clock and going over his time and Romney handled that very well.
in short Obama lied and was unprepared and Romney stormtrooped his ass.BAHHHHAAAMMMM !
Godfather.
I really don't get the gloating. it's a debate. things are going to happen. He will most likely be way better next time.
and you call Obama a liar? even if that's true, does that mean you are heralding Romney as a truth-telling messiah?
nope....just better at it than Obama they're all liars man,you don't don't make to the top of politics telling the truth right ? but Romney did chew Obama's ass up last night and yes to me it was like watching a good football game ....little victorys...ya gotta take em when they come.
Attack the man's religion. Ridicule his religious beliefs because they aren't your own.
Bigoted ideology.
How progressive....
No.
Until there is a vote on his rights and a constitutional amendment to force someone else's way of life on him... you don't get to play the poor down-trodden minority card.
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
If Romney can't win in Ohio this victory of sorts in this first debate doesn't mean squat.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I really don't get the gloating. it's a debate. things are going to happen. He will most likely be way better next time.
and you call Obama a liar? even if that's true, does that mean you are heralding Romney as a truth-telling messiah?
nope....just better at it than Obama they're all liars man,you don't don't make to the top of politics telling the truth right ? but Romney did chew Obama's ass up last night and yes to me it was like watching a good football game ....little victorys...ya gotta take em when they come.
Godfather.
you are saying Romney is a better liar than Obama? :shock:
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Fargo 2003
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St. Paul 2014
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
If Romney can't win in Ohio this victory of sorts in this first debate doesn't mean squat.
Peace
Is Ohio out of reach? I think all swing states are in play.
At the moment it appears Romney is behind by 5 points. He's even behind at the moment here in Florida of which he will also need. Yes there in play and MR needs to step his pollitricking even more. After last night debate one thing for sure can be said he won't be called an angry black man trying to debate an opponent.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Income inequality up
Wage stagnation
Loss of jobs
etc, etc, etc
I remember things being awesome until about 2007.
Do some more research
I remember my eyeballs working. I remember my paycheck and options working.
I remember the late 90's being awesome. I remember things being crushed by the dot.com implosion is 2000.
Things rebounded. Monopoly type loans throughout the last ten years. Corporate reckless spending. My friends buying $400k one bedroom condos that should have been $150k. Record congressional spending throughout the last ten years. Good times. Have a drink they're buying.
I remember my eyeballs working. I remember my paycheck and options working.
I remember the late 90's being awesome. I remember things being crushed by the dot.com implosion is 2000.
Things rebounded. Monopoly type loans throughout the last ten years. Corporate reckless spending. My friends buying $400k one bedroom condos that should have been $150k. Record congressional spending throughout the last ten years. Good times. Have a drink they're buying.
I wasn't being sarcastic or antagonistic with my "do some more research comment" comment. I just saw that it looked that way. I meant it to come across as "I'm with ya, I want to hear more." Apologies.
It seems that the crash of 08 had been building for some time. And, we should add "too much credit," "Wall Street greed," and "credit default swaps, CDOs, and Mortgage-backed securities" to your list.
It's some type of paradox: this is a system where consumerism and materialism are a necessity (to a degree), but these things, when unchecked, can also explode in our face.
It's some type of paradox: this is a system where consumerism and materialism are a necessity (to a degree), but these things, when unchecked, can also explode in our face.
I don't know what the remedy is..............
society living within their means instead of just buying things that look shiney and will fit in their credit card balance, or because they don't have to pay for 15 months, when in reality, when they forget to save up for that thing they already own, the end up paying twice the amount they should have.
you see it all over this forum as well. people buying all the merch this band puts out just because they want it, not because they can afford it. same with going to multiple shows. I'd bet that 70% or more of the people that do that are doing it are doing it irresponsibly and paying for it down the road. the $100 ticket they are bitching about, but buying anyway, turns into a $250 ticket when they finally pay it off.
it's just lunacy.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
It's some type of paradox: this is a system where consumerism and materialism are a necessity (to a degree), but these things, when unchecked, can also explode in our face.
I don't know what the remedy is..............
society living within their means instead of just buying things that look shiney and will fit in their credit card balance, or because they don't have to pay for 15 months, when in reality, when they forget to save up for that thing they already own, the end up paying twice the amount they should have.
you see it all over this forum as well. people buying all the merch this band puts out just because they want it, not because they can afford it. same with going to multiple shows. I'd bet that 70% or more of the people that do that are doing it are doing it irresponsibly and paying for it down the road. the $100 ticket they are bitching about, but buying anyway, turns into a $250 ticket when they finally pay it off.
it's just lunacy.
That's true. Pearl Jam have really turned into some type of corporation, huh? But, in the end, the people don't have to buy the stuff....especially if they can't afford it, or if they are putting it all on credit cards.
I made the mistake of putting Buffalo, Hartford, and MSG on a credit card--tickets, hotels, gas, food etc. Not smart.....it's all the band's fault
Obama hits back after debate dip and accuses Romney of not telling the truth
President turns on Romney for 'dancing around his positions' as he seeks to revive fortunes following lacklustre Denver display
Ewen MacAskill in Denver
The Guardian, Thursday 4 October 2012
Barack Obama and the Democrats have accused Mitt Romney of dishonesty as they seek to limit the political damage from the president's lacklustre performance in the first debate.
Speaking at a rally in Denver on Thursday morning before flying to another campaign event in Wisconsin, Obama suggested the Republican had not been candid about his positions on tax and other issues on the podium on Wednesday evening.
"Governor Romney may dance around his positions but if you want to be president, you owe the American people the truth," he said.
"When I got on to the stage, I met this spirited fellow who claimed to be Mitt Romney," Obama told the crowd. "But it couldn't have been Mitt Romney, because the real Mitt Romney has been running around the country the last year promising $5tn in tax cuts that favor the wealthy. The fellow on stage said he didn't know anything about that."
The confident, fired-up appearance by Obama was in stark contrast to his performance in the debate when he seemed disengaged, and at time frustrated as Romney batted away attacks on his policies.
In one key exchange at the start, Obama said Romney was planning $5tn of tax cuts and had not explained how he was going to pay for those without increasing the deficit. Romney flat-out denied this was his policy.
But independent analysts have said the tax cuts he is proposing would total almost $5tn over 10 years, and that it would be "mathematically impossible" to pay for that solely by stopping tax breaks for high-income individuals.
Later, during a section on healthcare, Romney insisted that he had an alternative plan to ensure that people with pre-existing conditions were not discriminated against by health insurance companies. But after the debate, senior adviser Eric Fehrnstrom conceded that it would be down to individual states to introduce legislation to protect people with pre-existing conditions.
The Democrats are planning to hold Romney to account on these and other issues, Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod, told reporters in a conference call on Thursday morning.
"Governor Romney gave a good performance and we give him credit for that," Axelrod said. "The problem is that none of it was rooted in fact." Describing Romney as "devoid of honesty", he also accused the Republican of lying over his claim that he would regulate Wall Street.
As the Obama team conducted its post-mortem, his campaign advisers faced questions about why Obama had appeared tired and uninterested, and about his failure to match Romney's aggression.
Axelrod admitted that Democratic supporters would have been disappointed that Obama had not raised strong issues such as the Republican position on women's rights, or the secret video showing Romney disparaging 47% of voters as freeloaders or his record as chief executive of the investment fund Bain Capital. Axelrod said the president had not wanted the debate to turn into a slugfest that would have alienated the millions of television viewers.
One of Axelrod's counterparts in the Romney camp, Ed Gillespie, interviewed on MSNBC, defended Romney's failure to go into the specifics of his tax plans, saying it would not make sense to box himself into a policy ahead of negotiations between a president and Congress.
"If you negotiate this now, you and me on the set or candidates in campaigns across the country, you end up locking people in positions in a political environment that makes it impossible to govern," Gillespie said.
In the 90-minute debate, Romney was forceful from the start, accusing Obama of repeatedly portraying the Republican's policies as inaccurate, and he maintained that momentum throughout. Obama, looking tired and at times irritated, remained largely calm.
Obama, seemingly frustrated with Romney's elusiveness, retorted that it had been his opponent's strategy for 18 months. "And now, five weeks before the election, he's saying that his big, bold idea is: 'Never mind'".
At times, Romney patronised the president, saying that he did not understand business or accountancy. "Mr President, you're entitled to your own airplane and your own house, but not your own facts," he said at one point. In another powerful attack which is at the core of the Romney message, he listed unkept promises and told Obama: "You've been president for four years."
The president, by contrast, was hesitant in his responses. One of the biggest surprises was that he failed to deliver any of the attacks that have been successful on the campaign trail and have been used to devastating effect in television ads in swing states. There was no mention of Romney's disparaging remarks about the 47% of the population being freeloaders, nor of his opponent's tenure at Bain Capital.
The main image of the night will be of Romney, eyes alight, gesticulating from the podium with a rarely seen passion, while Obama, playing into his image as professorial, delivered most of his answers with his head down.
On healthcare reform, Obama defended his controversial changes to expand coverage, saying it was almost identical to changes introduced by Romney while he was governor of Massachusetts.
Romney denied they were identical, claimed Obama's plan increased costs and reiterated that he would repeal the reform.
"In my opinion, the government is not effective in bringing down the cost of almost anything. The right answer is not to have the federal government take over healthcare,'' Romney said.
Is Ohio out of reach? I think all swing states are in play.
They're not.
Most of them are way out of Romney's reach even if Barack Obama shits his pants in the next one and barfs on the floor in the one after that.
Remember how the RNC was a 3-day disaster and aside from Ann Romney making up some silly story about having to use an ironing board as a dining room table, Chris Christie pumping his own 2016 run, Clint Eastwood doing a cringe-worthy comedy routine and Paul Ryan telling a massive string of lies... not much happened?
Do you know anyone who changed their support after that? Nobody did. Romney's numbers were totally flat. Nobody joined the party... nobody left.
Same thing will happen here. Supporters shrugged and continued on... Obama supporters told some very mean jokes that they didn't think would change anyone's minds... just like tomorrow.
Nobody really cares although it's nice to see our resident conservatives getting SO darn excited about it.
Is Ohio out of reach? I think all swing states are in play.
They're not.
Most of them are way out of Romney's reach even if Barack Obama shits his pants in the next one and barfs on the floor in the one after that.
Remember how the RNC was a 3-day disaster and aside from Ann Romney making up some silly story about having to use an ironing board as a dining room table, Chris Christie pumping his own 2016 run, Clint Eastwood doing a cringe-worthy comedy routine and Paul Ryan telling a massive string of lies... not much happened?
Do you know anyone who changed their support after that? Nobody did. Romney's numbers were totally flat. Nobody joined the party... nobody left.
Same thing will happen here. Supporters shrugged and continued on... Obama supporters told some very mean jokes that they didn't think would change anyone's minds... just like tomorrow.
Nobody really cares although it's nice to see our resident conservatives getting SO darn excited about it.
Tomorrow's jobs number will be weak, and the rate will go up to 8.2%. I am voting for Obama, and I think the Republicans in Congress have done a masterful job with their propaganda and obstructionist campaign, but it comes down to the economy: More people will like Mitt's plans than Obama's record.
The funny thing is though (as I stated on another thread) in my opinion, the field is, and has been, perfectly set for trickle-down economics. Taxes are low--loopholes-- CEO pay is unchanged, corporate profits are very strong, Wall St. is through the roof......it's a shame. The poor and the working class ALWAYS pay.
So, if anyone derides the economy's performance, they are basically saying that trickle-down economics--voodoo economics--does not work
but it comes down to the economy: More people will like Mitt's plans than Obama's record.
Which is what they've been saying for over a year. And the number that impresses me the most is that the majority of voters do believe that the Republicans have intentionally sabotaged the economy to keep the president from being re-elected. It's like Mean Girls.
but it comes down to the economy: More people will like Mitt's plans than Obama's record.
Which is what they've been saying for over a year. And the number that impresses me the most is that the majority of voters do believe that the Republicans have intentionally sabotaged the economy to keep the president from being re-elected. It's like Mean Girls.
Unfortunately, I don't think they see it that way. History will.....
A Reuters/Ipsos poll? Really? That's about as accurate as the day-after bump every politician gets after their convention. Well... every one but Mitt.
How about you call his mom and ask her what she thinks?
Let's wait a week until the actual reliable polls come out before we start sucking each other's thumbs.
yeah. Thumbs.
Let's go with that.
I'm all in for Obama, but that performance.......And, I think Reuters is a reputable source.
Romney has a lot, a lot, of ground to make up, but last night was a serious blow.
That's true. Pearl Jam have really turned into some type of corporation, huh? But, in the end, the people don't have to buy the stuff....especially if they can't afford it, or if they are putting it all on credit cards.
that's what I mean. the band is perfectly within their right to put out all the merch they want to, but if you can't afford it, don't buy it.
Gimli 1993
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St. Paul 2014
I wouldn't vote for George W. Bush again for President since he racked up a lot of debt. I'm not going to vote for Obama because he racked up even more debt than Bush. Would be insane to think Obama is going to balance the budget.
Let's give someone else a chance.
People love all of the programs Obama wants to create, but forget that every program is paid for in part from a loan from China.
All these programs are going to be great until the country goes bankrupt. I could eat steak dinners every night and buy a new car every year, and take 2 months of vacations, but I'd go break in a few years and be homeless. Raising or lowering taxes is not going to change the deficit much, it is the spending that is out of control.
Give someone else a chance. Give someone else a chance. That was all 2008 was. Obama had no ideas and just screamed "hope". He was the epitome of "give me a chance to change the country because the other party failed". Well, we are closer to bankruptcy and have an even more expensive health care system. Obama had his chance and failed. The last two years have brought no significant legislation, I wonder what the next two years will bring because he'll be a lame duck the last two years.
I'm all in for Obama, but that performance.......And, I think Reuters is a reputable source.
Romney has a lot, a lot, of ground to make up, but last night was a serious blow.
I honestly don't agree.
I really don't think it makes a difference.
Maybe fewer people think he's a boob. But it's not going to change anything.
I wouldn't vote for George W. Bush again for President since he racked up a lot of debt. I'm not going to vote for Obama because he racked up even more debt than Bush. Would be insane to think Obama is going to balance the budget.
The debt he racked up is mostly paying for the things that Bush bought without having a way to pay for it.
And you want to give someone a chance who wants to go back to that.
Comments
One said, "I will sit down with the other side..."
The other, "I will take ideas from anywhere..."
This has been one thing that I think we all find annoying, how partisan it's all become. As Jon Stewart said, "We are governed by the extremes because all of us in the middle are too busy working!"
And now we have "a record" we can look at. Obama simply does not work with people. He was not in congress long enough, or simply doesn't care enough, to know how to get things done. He had a democratic congress for his first 2 years ... and he couldn't even work with them. He outsourced Health Care Reform to Reid and Pelosi. Not a single democrat would even vote for the president's budget.
I was at the LBJ presidential library last spring and was rocked by how hard that man worked. He had spent a lifetime in politics, true, but he still did the work. Put in two full workdays for everyone else's one. He worked the phones, walked the capitol, sat down with his opponents, compromised...
Obama's style is simply to invite the opposition to a speech and dress them down in public. His first days in office are framed by his simple declaration while working out the stimulus package, "I won." All debate was seemingly settled on Nov 4.
This is not what I want from my president.
This "control of congress for 2 years" thing has to stop. it is simply not factually correct.
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com ... years.html
Secondly, the Republicans did not want to work with him. Period. Nothing in their behavior has shown other wise. Mitch McConnell from an interview in the Naitonal Journal in October of 2010:
NJ: What’s the job?
McConnell: The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.
NJ: Does that mean endless, or at least frequent, confrontation with the president?
McConnell: If President Obama does a Clintonian backflip, if he’s willing to meet us halfway on some of the biggest issues, it’s not inappropriate for us to do business with him.
"If he's willing to meet us halfway" is a bull shit statement that really reads: "our way or the highway."
Obama was painted as a radical; but, liberals/progressives were incredibly upset with him because he was clearly governing form the center. This invalidates McConnell's bull shit.
"Obama's style is simply to invite the opposition to a speech and dress them down in public. His first days in office are framed by his simple declaration while working out the stimulus package, "I won." All debate was seemingly settled on Nov 4."
To be polite, I simply disagree.
No, he has proven he can become governor, take credit for everything even though he really did nothing except get his healthcare bill enacted (you know, that pesky little Obamacare microcosm he so loves to distance himself from), and then act like he was the greatest thing to ever happen to the state.
LOL at him trying to take ANY credit for the state of education and the economy in MA.
So no, you can, once again, stop twisting my words in a blatantly baiting and manipulative way.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
goodness...
and goodness does exist most especially in a positive mind, I prefer to see that.
His State government health plan was used as a model for Obamacare
but we know what states can do does not necessarily work
or hold true for the Feds.
Somehow with them is turns into another form of taxation ... go figure.
Hey don't hate me though cause I am not true blue
I am purple through and through....
that kind of purple with a little more red than blue in it, a truly lovely color....
process magenta
Attack the man's religion. Ridicule his religious beliefs because they aren't your own.
Bigoted ideology.
How progressive....
Who said super-majority? Who said fillibuster proof? Not I -- it is entirely factually correct that the Majority Leader of the Senate has been Democrat Senator Harry Reid -- who refuses to bring a budget up -- for the past SIX years, including the first two of the President's term. He sets the agenda of the Senate.
Likewise with Pelosi, Speaker from 2006-2010, setting the agenda of the House.
That's a Democrat controlled Congress. Try telling me Democrats can't get things done with an obstinate obstructionist minority in Congress, I live in freakin CA where they've been running us into the ground for over 30 years!
Okay. I thought you were going the super-majority/filibuster route. My apologies for misreading.
That said, he still needed republican votes. Objectively speaking, and even with republican ideas being embraced by Obama, no republican wanted to work with him.
Take it from a former Californian: Get out!!!!! While you still can.
This NBCnews.com article seems to be lumping them together. I've never taken NBC as a right wing nut paper. But, maybe it is now. You tell me.
http://economywatch.nbcnews.com/_news/2 ... ocid=msnhp
His assertion is not that crazy.
nope....just better at it than Obama
Godfather.
No.
Until there is a vote on his rights and a constitutional amendment to force someone else's way of life on him... you don't get to play the poor down-trodden minority card.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Is Ohio out of reach? I think all swing states are in play.
you are saying Romney is a better liar than Obama? :shock:
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
At the moment it appears Romney is behind by 5 points. He's even behind at the moment here in Florida of which he will also need. Yes there in play and MR needs to step his pollitricking even more. After last night debate one thing for sure can be said he won't be called an angry black man trying to debate an opponent.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I remember the late 90's being awesome. I remember things being crushed by the dot.com implosion is 2000.
Things rebounded. Monopoly type loans throughout the last ten years. Corporate reckless spending. My friends buying $400k one bedroom condos that should have been $150k. Record congressional spending throughout the last ten years. Good times. Have a drink they're buying.
I wasn't being sarcastic or antagonistic with my "do some more research comment" comment. I just saw that it looked that way. I meant it to come across as "I'm with ya, I want to hear more." Apologies.
It seems that the crash of 08 had been building for some time. And, we should add "too much credit," "Wall Street greed," and "credit default swaps, CDOs, and Mortgage-backed securities" to your list.
It's some type of paradox: this is a system where consumerism and materialism are a necessity (to a degree), but these things, when unchecked, can also explode in our face.
I don't know what the remedy is..............
society living within their means instead of just buying things that look shiney and will fit in their credit card balance, or because they don't have to pay for 15 months, when in reality, when they forget to save up for that thing they already own, the end up paying twice the amount they should have.
you see it all over this forum as well. people buying all the merch this band puts out just because they want it, not because they can afford it. same with going to multiple shows. I'd bet that 70% or more of the people that do that are doing it are doing it irresponsibly and paying for it down the road. the $100 ticket they are bitching about, but buying anyway, turns into a $250 ticket when they finally pay it off.
it's just lunacy.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
That's true. Pearl Jam have really turned into some type of corporation, huh? But, in the end, the people don't have to buy the stuff....especially if they can't afford it, or if they are putting it all on credit cards.
I made the mistake of putting Buffalo, Hartford, and MSG on a credit card--tickets, hotels, gas, food etc. Not smart.....it's all the band's fault
Those were some great shows though
Obama hits back after debate dip and accuses Romney of not telling the truth
President turns on Romney for 'dancing around his positions' as he seeks to revive fortunes following lacklustre Denver display
Ewen MacAskill in Denver
The Guardian, Thursday 4 October 2012
Barack Obama and the Democrats have accused Mitt Romney of dishonesty as they seek to limit the political damage from the president's lacklustre performance in the first debate.
Speaking at a rally in Denver on Thursday morning before flying to another campaign event in Wisconsin, Obama suggested the Republican had not been candid about his positions on tax and other issues on the podium on Wednesday evening.
"Governor Romney may dance around his positions but if you want to be president, you owe the American people the truth," he said.
"When I got on to the stage, I met this spirited fellow who claimed to be Mitt Romney," Obama told the crowd. "But it couldn't have been Mitt Romney, because the real Mitt Romney has been running around the country the last year promising $5tn in tax cuts that favor the wealthy. The fellow on stage said he didn't know anything about that."
The confident, fired-up appearance by Obama was in stark contrast to his performance in the debate when he seemed disengaged, and at time frustrated as Romney batted away attacks on his policies.
In one key exchange at the start, Obama said Romney was planning $5tn of tax cuts and had not explained how he was going to pay for those without increasing the deficit. Romney flat-out denied this was his policy.
But independent analysts have said the tax cuts he is proposing would total almost $5tn over 10 years, and that it would be "mathematically impossible" to pay for that solely by stopping tax breaks for high-income individuals.
Later, during a section on healthcare, Romney insisted that he had an alternative plan to ensure that people with pre-existing conditions were not discriminated against by health insurance companies. But after the debate, senior adviser Eric Fehrnstrom conceded that it would be down to individual states to introduce legislation to protect people with pre-existing conditions.
The Democrats are planning to hold Romney to account on these and other issues, Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod, told reporters in a conference call on Thursday morning.
"Governor Romney gave a good performance and we give him credit for that," Axelrod said. "The problem is that none of it was rooted in fact." Describing Romney as "devoid of honesty", he also accused the Republican of lying over his claim that he would regulate Wall Street.
As the Obama team conducted its post-mortem, his campaign advisers faced questions about why Obama had appeared tired and uninterested, and about his failure to match Romney's aggression.
Axelrod admitted that Democratic supporters would have been disappointed that Obama had not raised strong issues such as the Republican position on women's rights, or the secret video showing Romney disparaging 47% of voters as freeloaders or his record as chief executive of the investment fund Bain Capital. Axelrod said the president had not wanted the debate to turn into a slugfest that would have alienated the millions of television viewers.
One of Axelrod's counterparts in the Romney camp, Ed Gillespie, interviewed on MSNBC, defended Romney's failure to go into the specifics of his tax plans, saying it would not make sense to box himself into a policy ahead of negotiations between a president and Congress.
"If you negotiate this now, you and me on the set or candidates in campaigns across the country, you end up locking people in positions in a political environment that makes it impossible to govern," Gillespie said.
In the 90-minute debate, Romney was forceful from the start, accusing Obama of repeatedly portraying the Republican's policies as inaccurate, and he maintained that momentum throughout. Obama, looking tired and at times irritated, remained largely calm.
Obama, seemingly frustrated with Romney's elusiveness, retorted that it had been his opponent's strategy for 18 months. "And now, five weeks before the election, he's saying that his big, bold idea is: 'Never mind'".
At times, Romney patronised the president, saying that he did not understand business or accountancy. "Mr President, you're entitled to your own airplane and your own house, but not your own facts," he said at one point. In another powerful attack which is at the core of the Romney message, he listed unkept promises and told Obama: "You've been president for four years."
The president, by contrast, was hesitant in his responses. One of the biggest surprises was that he failed to deliver any of the attacks that have been successful on the campaign trail and have been used to devastating effect in television ads in swing states. There was no mention of Romney's disparaging remarks about the 47% of the population being freeloaders, nor of his opponent's tenure at Bain Capital.
The main image of the night will be of Romney, eyes alight, gesticulating from the podium with a rarely seen passion, while Obama, playing into his image as professorial, delivered most of his answers with his head down.
On healthcare reform, Obama defended his controversial changes to expand coverage, saying it was almost identical to changes introduced by Romney while he was governor of Massachusetts.
Romney denied they were identical, claimed Obama's plan increased costs and reiterated that he would repeal the reform.
"In my opinion, the government is not effective in bringing down the cost of almost anything. The right answer is not to have the federal government take over healthcare,'' Romney said.
They're not.
Most of them are way out of Romney's reach even if Barack Obama shits his pants in the next one and barfs on the floor in the one after that.
Remember how the RNC was a 3-day disaster and aside from Ann Romney making up some silly story about having to use an ironing board as a dining room table, Chris Christie pumping his own 2016 run, Clint Eastwood doing a cringe-worthy comedy routine and Paul Ryan telling a massive string of lies... not much happened?
Do you know anyone who changed their support after that? Nobody did. Romney's numbers were totally flat. Nobody joined the party... nobody left.
Same thing will happen here. Supporters shrugged and continued on... Obama supporters told some very mean jokes that they didn't think would change anyone's minds... just like tomorrow.
Nobody really cares although it's nice to see our resident conservatives getting SO darn excited about it.
Tomorrow's jobs number will be weak, and the rate will go up to 8.2%. I am voting for Obama, and I think the Republicans in Congress have done a masterful job with their propaganda and obstructionist campaign, but it comes down to the economy: More people will like Mitt's plans than Obama's record.
The funny thing is though (as I stated on another thread) in my opinion, the field is, and has been, perfectly set for trickle-down economics. Taxes are low--loopholes-- CEO pay is unchanged, corporate profits are very strong, Wall St. is through the roof......it's a shame. The poor and the working class ALWAYS pay.
So, if anyone derides the economy's performance, they are basically saying that trickle-down economics--voodoo economics--does not work
Which is what they've been saying for over a year. And the number that impresses me the most is that the majority of voters do believe that the Republicans have intentionally sabotaged the economy to keep the president from being re-elected. It's like Mean Girls.
Unfortunately, I don't think they see it that way. History will.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/0 ... f=politics
A Reuters/Ipsos poll? Really? That's about as accurate as the day-after bump every politician gets after their convention. Well... every one but Mitt.
How about you call his mom and ask her what she thinks?
Let's wait a week until the actual reliable polls come out before we start sucking each other's thumbs.
yeah. Thumbs.
Let's go with that.
I'm all in for Obama, but that performance.......And, I think Reuters is a reputable source.
Romney has a lot, a lot, of ground to make up, but last night was a serious blow.
that's what I mean. the band is perfectly within their right to put out all the merch they want to, but if you can't afford it, don't buy it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Let's give someone else a chance.
People love all of the programs Obama wants to create, but forget that every program is paid for in part from a loan from China.
All these programs are going to be great until the country goes bankrupt. I could eat steak dinners every night and buy a new car every year, and take 2 months of vacations, but I'd go break in a few years and be homeless. Raising or lowering taxes is not going to change the deficit much, it is the spending that is out of control.
Give someone else a chance. Give someone else a chance. That was all 2008 was. Obama had no ideas and just screamed "hope". He was the epitome of "give me a chance to change the country because the other party failed". Well, we are closer to bankruptcy and have an even more expensive health care system. Obama had his chance and failed. The last two years have brought no significant legislation, I wonder what the next two years will bring because he'll be a lame duck the last two years.
I honestly don't agree.
I really don't think it makes a difference.
Maybe fewer people think he's a boob. But it's not going to change anything.
The debt he racked up is mostly paying for the things that Bush bought without having a way to pay for it.
And you want to give someone a chance who wants to go back to that.
Ok.
http://aggravatedjasun.tumblr.com/post/32429609414