Not good for Romney

inlet13

Cliffy6745 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Serious question. How is Romney going to build an economy? Tax cuts for the rich that will be paid for by cuts to.....wait till I'm President and I will tell you.

That's good.

Serious question, I'm being serious - do you really think Obama vs. Romney matters? Why?

When push comes to shove - do you think either will do drastically different things from the opponent? If so, what?

Economically, probably not in any major way. But I am far from an economic expert, and I don't pretend to be.

So if neither is going to have a major difference economically? I should vote based on social issues and foreign policy, right?

Edit: And I am not saying I am voting stricly on social issues, but I do agree things will not be completely different economically under either, although I don't agree upper class tax cuts with the middle class likely paying for them is the way to go.

I'd sincerely argue they won't do anything different on social issues. I also don't think they will do anything drastically different economically - although I could see it being slight via taxes. Spending won't go down, most likely - so no real difference there. I think they both will be fairly aggressive with foreign policy.

Nah, I don't see a big difference. Honestly, it bugs me to see people divide the sides like this is life or death when in reality the same type of robots with almost identical programs (platforms) are under each uniform. They just have different colors on.

It's the pom-pom establishment at it's best. This place is getting very rah, rah lately. It's kinda vomit-worthy - considering at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. They both suck, really really bad.

pandora

blackredyellow wrote:

Yes, it's just that easy to get a job... or maybe they can just borrow money from their parents to start a company?

No one "changes their situation" by getting government assistance, but they can do trivial things like "feed their children" or "go to the doctor" or "stay in their house" after getting laid off, with government assistance.

How one changes their situation is with goals. Is with determination.
It's with hard work and sweat.
It's with opportunity and education.

More money in everyone's pocket, employer, employee, less government involvement,
less taxation, here is where communities help each other and grow them.
Not through the government programs of waste, abuse and fraud.
Not a government caring for its people but allowing it's people to care for each other.

pandora

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Serious question. How is Romney going to build an economy? Tax cuts for the rich that will be paid for by cuts to.....wait till I'm President and I will tell you.

That's good.

I would hope it would be cross the board cuts, the same percentage for everything...
and a big one.
This is what Ron Paul's son eluded to I believe... whom I liked.

Then we must get a fairer tax system for all. Lower taxes on business, remove the inheritance
and death tax. With drastically less payroll tax paid by employer and employee
wages can go up and money can return to the economy.

It's clear we can not continue as we are. Our deficit is out of control and growing.
We must stop providing for our people instead get them to work.

And we must stop providing money to other countries... sorry we are worst than broke.
We are in a hole with very little light left.

Cliffy6745

pandora wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

Yes, it's just that easy to get a job... or maybe they can just borrow money from their parents to start a company?

No one "changes their situation" by getting government assistance, but they can do trivial things like "feed their children" or "go to the doctor" or "stay in their house" after getting laid off, with government assistance.

It's with opportunity and education.

Boom. The rest of what you wrote is cliche and quite frankly, bullshit. And I don't mean that to be offensive.

blackredyellow

pandora wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

Yes, it's just that easy to get a job... or maybe they can just borrow money from their parents to start a company?

No one "changes their situation" by getting government assistance, but they can do trivial things like "feed their children" or "go to the doctor" or "stay in their house" after getting laid off, with government assistance.

How one changes their situation is with goals. Is with determination.
It's with hard work and sweat.
It's with opportunity and education.

More money in everyone's pocket, employer, employee, less government involvement,
less taxation, here is where communities help each other and grow them.
Not through the government programs of waste, abuse and fraud.
Not a government caring for its people but allowing it's people to care for each other.

That's funny... you say it's with opportunity and education, but then in the next paragraph you trash the government programs that help provide that.

And your rhetoric sounds good... until you realize there's not much behind it.

Take a single mother works part-time to take care of herself and her child while going to school... Maybe she gets some food stamps or her kid is in a head start program, or she gets grants for college. Your solution for her is to set goals, work harder, and then take away some of the support she gets from gov't programs and give the owner of the restaurant she works at a tax break? Then hope that other people step up and help while she works to her goal?

pandora

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Boom. The rest of what you wrote is cliche and quite frankly, bullshit. And I don't mean that to be offensive.

pandora wrote:

How one changes their situation is with goals. Is with determination.
It's with hard work and sweat.

not bullshit ... do you not hear the stories of people working hard?

and what does Boom have to do with this?

Cliffy6745

pandora wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Boom. The rest of what you wrote is cliche and quite frankly, bullshit. And I don't mean that to be offensive.

pandora wrote:

How one changes their situation is with goals. Is with determination.
It's with hard work and sweat.

not bullshit ... do you not hear the stories of people working hard?

and what does Boom have to do with this?

Of course people have to work hard. But it all starts with education and opportunity. For more cliches, I was born halfway up the hill, Mitt was born 3 steps from the top (it's hilarious that he doesn't see this). Sure, we both worked hard, and he is much more successful than 99.99% of this country but others are not so lucky and saying all they have to do is work hard is complete nonsense.

I think what blackredyellow posted is as spot on as it gets and said what I was trying to say much better.

pandora

blackredyellow wrote:

pandora wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

Yes, it's just that easy to get a job... or maybe they can just borrow money from their parents to start a company?

No one "changes their situation" by getting government assistance, but they can do trivial things like "feed their children" or "go to the doctor" or "stay in their house" after getting laid off, with government assistance.

How one changes their situation is with goals. Is with determination.
It's with hard work and sweat.
It's with opportunity and education.

More money in everyone's pocket, employer, employee, less government involvement,
less taxation, here is where communities help each other and grow them.
Not through the government programs of waste, abuse and fraud.
Not a government caring for its people but allowing it's people to care for each other.

That's funny... you say it's with opportunity and education, but then in the next paragraph you trash the government programs that help provide that.

And your rhetoric sounds good... until you realize there's not much behind it.

Take a single mother works part-time to take care of herself and her child while going to school... Maybe she gets some food stamps or her kid is in a head start program, or she gets grants for college. Your solution for her is to set goals, work harder, and then take away some of the support she gets from gov't programs and give the owner of the restaurant she works at a tax break? Then hope that other people step up and help while she works to her goal?

Why should the Federal government provide any of this?

Can the government even provide? Doesn't look like it can does it?
16 trillion in debt and growing :wtf:

Don't tax the waitresses tips. Don't tax that restaurant owner so he can pay his waitress more.
Put money back into their pockets.
Can she buy a computer, work full time and study on line with the extra money?
Reaching her goal in half the time...
where there is a will there is a way.

Let the schools provide for the children, the communities, the churches, the individual states.
The Feds are failing they are taxing but not providing because it is all on credit
and about to implode.

blackredyellow

pandora wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

pandora wrote:

How one changes their situation is with goals. Is with determination.
It's with hard work and sweat.
It's with opportunity and education.

More money in everyone's pocket, employer, employee, less government involvement,
less taxation, here is where communities help each other and grow them.
Not through the government programs of waste, abuse and fraud.
Not a government caring for its people but allowing it's people to care for each other.

That's funny... you say it's with opportunity and education, but then in the next paragraph you trash the government programs that help provide that.

And your rhetoric sounds good... until you realize there's not much behind it.

Take a single mother works part-time to take care of herself and her child while going to school... Maybe she gets some food stamps or her kid is in a head start program, or she gets grants for college. Your solution for her is to set goals, work harder, and then take away some of the support she gets from gov't programs and give the owner of the restaurant she works at a tax break? Then hope that other people step up and help while she works to her goal?

Why should the Federal government provide any of this?

Can the government even provide? Doesn't look like it does it?
16 trillion in debt and growing :wtf:

Don't tax the waitresses tips. Don't tax that restaurant owner so he can pay his waitress more.
Put money back into their pockets.
Can she buy a computer, work full time and study on line with the extra money?
Reaching her goal in half the time...
where there is a will there is a way.

Let the schools provide for the children, the communities, the churches, the individual states.
The Feds are failing they are taxing but not providing because it is all on credit
and about to implode.

Where do the schools, communities and individual states get their money from? Many states are broke as it is, and depend on federal dollars to fill the gaps. If the federal government quits providing these services, the states and localities will have to raise their taxes through the roof to pay for services, so we'd likely be in the same boat.

Look, I'm not saying that federal programs couldn't run better, or that there doesn't need some reform, but the idea of just cutting spending across the board and cutting taxes will solve everything, is living in fantasy land.

pandora

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Of course people have to work hard. But it all starts with education and opportunity. For more cliches, I was born halfway up the hill, Mitt was born 3 steps from the top (it's hilarious that he doesn't see this). Sure, we both worked hard, and he is much more successful than 99.99% of this country but others are not so lucky and saying all they have to do is work hard is complete nonsense.

It does not ALL start with that.
Sometimes no education or opportunity and only hard work and sweat brings success.

It is very cynical for you to say hard work is nonsense ...
hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.

Cliffy6745

pandora wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Of course people have to work hard. But it all starts with education and opportunity. For more cliches, I was born halfway up the hill, Mitt was born 3 steps from the top (it's hilarious that he doesn't see this). Sure, we both worked hard, and he is much more successful than 99.99% of this country but others are not so lucky and saying all they have to do is work hard is complete nonsense.

It does not ALL start with that.
Sometimes no education or opportunity and only hard work and sweat brings success.

It is very cynical for you to say hard work is nonsense ...
hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.

Sometimes. Has it been done? Sure. But as we have seen, more often than not, it doesn't. And I would argue the value of hard work will be instilled through education, something we don't provide to our poor.

I said hard work is important, but to say that all someone has to do is work hard and they'll be successful is just plain wrong.

And just to note, for someone who seems to know to know what everyone is thinking, you have a tough time understanding basic sentences. I said it is nonsense to think that all someone has to do is work hard and they will be fine.

Cliffy6745

Fuck, every fucking thread it's devils advocate. I swear, I could say the sky is blue and there would be an argument of some sort with twists and turns. God damn.

Cliffy6745

pandora wrote:

hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.

I'm sure a single mother of 3 working two jobs and struggling to feed her kids so they don't go hungry would get a kick out of you saying she should be happy because she is working hard. Sounds real joyful.

Zoso

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Fuck, every fucking thread it's devils advocate. I swear, I could say the sky is blue and there would be an argument of some sort with twists and turns. God damn.

I have to say I agree with your points of view on this subject. Not that it matters but you're spot on.

inlet13

Cliffy6745 wrote:

pandora wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Of course people have to work hard. But it all starts with education and opportunity. For more cliches, I was born halfway up the hill, Mitt was born 3 steps from the top (it's hilarious that he doesn't see this). Sure, we both worked hard, and he is much more successful than 99.99% of this country but others are not so lucky and saying all they have to do is work hard is complete nonsense.

It does not ALL start with that.
Sometimes no education or opportunity and only hard work and sweat brings success.

It is very cynical for you to say hard work is nonsense ...
hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.

Sometimes. Has it been done? Sure. But as we have seen, more often than not, it doesn't. And I would argue the value of hard work will be instilled through education, something we don't provide to our poor.

I said hard work is important, but to say that all someone has to do is work hard and they'll be successful is just plain wrong.

And just to note, for someone who seems to know to know what everyone is thinking, you have a tough time understanding basic sentences. I said it is nonsense to think that all someone has to do is work hard and they will be fine.

You two should get a room,....

Zoso

Cliffy6745 wrote:

pandora wrote:

hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.

I'm sure a single mother of 3 working two jobs and struggling to feed her kids so they don't go hungry would get a kick out of you saying she should be happy because she is working hard. Sounds real joyful.

yes working hard as a millionaire is a lot different to working out on minimum wage with 2 or 3 jobs. a lot more satisfaction if you get something out of it. every seen death of a salesmen.. similar point.

pandora

blackredyellow wrote:

pandora wrote:

Why should the Federal government provide any of this?

Can the government even provide? Doesn't look like it does it?
16 trillion in debt and growing :wtf:

Don't tax the waitresses tips. Don't tax that restaurant owner so he can pay his waitress more.
Put money back into their pockets.
Can she buy a computer, work full time and study on line with the extra money?
Reaching her goal in half the time...
where there is a will there is a way.

Let the schools provide for the children, the communities, the churches, the individual states.
The Feds are failing they are taxing but not providing because it is all on credit
and about to implode.

Where do the schools, communities and individual states get their money from? Many states are broke as it is, and depend on federal dollars to fill the gaps. If the federal government quits providing these services, the states and localities will have to raise their taxes through the roof to pay for services, so we'd likely be in the same boat.

Look, I'm not saying that federal programs couldn't run better, or that there doesn't need some reform, but the idea of just cutting spending across the board and cutting taxes will solve everything, is living in fantasy land.

Why are the States broke? Why is education suffering?
And why must they rely on the Federal Government who then requires
something of them?

The Federal government is failing at providing for the states.

Yes of course the states will raise taxes... as they should.
They should be independent of the Feds except for disaster relief,
compensation for terrorism costs, and interstate traffic.
With more money in everyone's pockets the state economies will improve
giving much more income to the states, in sales tax, business tax,
and property tax.

States should also be free to represent their citizens as they choose
not how the Federal government dictates.

The Federal government can not afford it's people, time to relieve them
of that duty and let the people take over again and take care of each other.

pandora

Cliffy6745 wrote:

pandora wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Of course people have to work hard. But it all starts with education and opportunity. For more cliches, I was born halfway up the hill, Mitt was born 3 steps from the top (it's hilarious that he doesn't see this). Sure, we both worked hard, and he is much more successful than 99.99% of this country but others are not so lucky and saying all they have to do is work hard is complete nonsense.

It does not ALL start with that.
Sometimes no education or opportunity and only hard work and sweat brings success.

It is very cynical for you to say hard work is nonsense ...
hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.

Sometimes. Has it been done? Sure. But as we have seen, more often than not, it doesn't. And I would argue the value of hard work will be instilled through education, something we don't provide to our poor.

I said hard work is important, but to say that all someone has to do is work hard and they'll be successful is just plain wrong.

And just to note, for someone who seems to know to know what everyone is thinking, you have a tough time understanding basic sentences. I said it is nonsense to think that all someone has to do is work hard and they will be fine.

Sorry I guess I should have read between the lines you did not add ...
will be fine in your first statement.

The value of hard work is common sense really

pandora

Zoso wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

pandora wrote:

hard work is everything in life. It is here rewards lie, if only for the joy of just that.

I'm sure a single mother of 3 working two jobs and struggling to feed her kids so they don't go hungry would get a kick out of you saying she should be happy because she is working hard. Sounds real joyful.

yes working hard as a millionaire is a lot different to working out on minimum wage with 2 or 3 jobs. a lot more satisfaction if you get something out of it. every seen death of a salesmen.. similar point.

Do you think a millionaire is more rewarded for their hard work than an average hard working person?
We might have different ideas of what rewards are in life.

Success is not measured by the amount of money in the bank.
I bet that Mom knows this and is quite happy after all.

pandora

:wave: Happiest of Friday evenings all ...

boogie on