Mike Huckabee: Rapes Have Created Amazing People!

comebackgirl

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

brianlux wrote:

What the hell is Huckabee's point anyway? Sheesh. Talk about trolls!

The point which ya'll seem to be missing is pretty simple actually.
Instead of terminating a pregnancy from a rape out of fear, or anger, or negative emotions ... you could transmute your pain and raise a beautiful child, instead of ending it's life.
After all, the child isn't to blame.

]

I understand your point about abortion, but trauma recovery really isn't this simple. Recovery is different for everyone and some people never heal. I think it's important for women to have the choice rather than forcing them into something that could be a re-victimization. They shouldn't be punished either nor made to feel guilty or selfish if their healing doesn't happen the way some think it should. A fetus is impacted by the ongoing trauma of the mother just as she is. If a woman has the choice to continue the pregnancy she may be able to recover in the manner you mentioned, but take that choice away and mom and child may both still be victims.

josevolution

Man just when you think you have heard the most absurd rethoric from the GOP , comes this i can't wait for tomorrow ...

Go Beavers

inlet13 wrote:

Liberal elites (including the media) + Republican NeoCons (including Huckabee) = Deflection from real issues that could actually be solved

It's ironic how most folks here fall completely into one of the two camps.

It is too bad that anti-abortion people keep working on taking away an individuals choice. Abortion is legal, let's move on, folks!

Jason P

inlet13 wrote:

Liberal elites (including the media) + Republican NeoCons (including Huckabee) = Deflection from real issues that could actually be solved

It's ironic how most folks here fall completely into one of the two camps.

Yeah, to bad we don't get worked up this much over the fact that not only are we broke, we are still digging the debt hole ... and neither candidate has a plan to fix it. :(

inlet13

Jason P wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Liberal elites (including the media) + Republican NeoCons (including Huckabee) = Deflection from real issues that could actually be solved

It's ironic how most folks here fall completely into one of the two camps.

Yeah, to bad we don't get worked up this much over the fact that not only are we broke, we are still digging the debt hole ... and neither candidate has a plan to fix it. :(

THIS.

We got to discuss about semantical arguments on what if questions and of course, Chick-fil-A's CEOs thoughts on gay marriage instead and a Georgetown law-student's need for free contraception...

...these issues are more important than the millions without jobs.

know1

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

He's just being honest. This is how these guys really feel. You can see it in the reax here from several Pearl Jam fans. This is what these people stand for. They do not want women impregnated by way of rape to have the right to terminate their pregnancy. It's right there in the GOP Platform for all to see, it's in their votes in Congress. I don't blame them for speaking their mind and telling us how they feel. In fact I'm glad that they've made it obvious for all to see.

know1 wrote:

I think Huckabee should have kept quiet and not attempted to justify Akin.

That being said, if you take your own emotion out of your evaluation, is what Huckabee said so terrible? He's basically legitimizing the lives of those that have come out of the tragedy of rape.

Would you rather he said that only terrible people have come from rapes? Regardless of the circumstances of their conception, they are still people after all.

And here you go, somebody promptly proving my point. It's fine that you feel that way on the issue. Akin talked about it in a stupid awkward way, but he is accurately representing the view of the Republican Party.

I'm not being emotional - these are facts.

Why don't you answer my question, though. Huckabee said good people can come from rape. Do you dispute that?

brianlux

inlet13 wrote:

Liberal elites (including the media) + Republican NeoCons (including Huckabee) = Deflection from real issues that could actually be solved

It's ironic how most folks here fall completely into one of the two camps.

Inlet, if I'm reading this correctly, your post is saying you believe it better to be balanced, or moderate, or something along those lines but referring to liberals as "elite" kind of skews your idea here (unless "Neocon" is also meant to be derogatory) and implies a bias towards one of those two camps (the right, obviously). This could be seen as upping the irony you refer to a bit.

I do agree, as I said earlier, that these kinds of stories are a distraction from more pressing issues which we both agree should be more the focus. But look who is spending time and energy posting here- both of us.

We're all Bozos on this Bus.

Prince Of Dorkness

pandora wrote:

it remains the choice of Mom ...

and the only reason that it remains the choice of the mom is that Democrats and independents have fought to keep abortions legal and accessible to women.

If people like Akin and Ryan and Romney and Huckabee get their way the mom will have no choice but to carry a baby, even if will be born with severe brain damage, no lungs, no brain, vital organs on the outside or with two heads. Or dead.

Prince Of Dorkness

And the "turn lemons into lemonade" answer is very similar to what police used to tell women who were complaining about a stalker: "Well, maybe he likes you. Why don't you give him a chance? You might hit it off... I mean, you're single."

The fact that people would defend a comment like this is disgusting.

While he's right... there ARE some amazing people out there who were the product of "forcible" or "legitimate" rape, that's not a good reason to make abortion illegal.

brianlux

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

And the "turn lemons into lemonade" answer is very similar to what police used to tell women who were complaining about a stalker: "Well, maybe he likes you. Why don't you give him a chance? You might hit it off... I mean, you're single."

The fact that people would defend a comment like this is disgusting.

While he's right... there ARE some amazing people out there who were the product of "forcible" or "legitimate" rape, that's not a good reason to make abortion illegal.

I hear that "turn lemons into lemonade" all the time and I say, if the lemons are poison they'll kill you either way.

comebackgirl

brianlux wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

And the "turn lemons into lemonade" answer is very similar to what police used to tell women who were complaining about a stalker: "Well, maybe he likes you. Why don't you give him a chance? You might hit it off... I mean, you're single."

The fact that people would defend a comment like this is disgusting.

While he's right... there ARE some amazing people out there who were the product of "forcible" or "legitimate" rape, that's not a good reason to make abortion illegal.

I hear that "turn lemons into lemonade" all the time and I say, if the lemons are poison they'll kill you either way.

Well said. It's bad enough someone forces themselves inside of you, but if they happen to hijack your DNA you then have to succumb to having your uterus used as a vessel for a life you didn't choose to create because,hey, rapes have created some amazing people. While that may be true, it shouldn't invalidate the woman's choice. She's already had one choice about how her body is used taken away; I don't think that should be compounded a second time. Some women may choose to continue the pregnancy and go on to feel blessed by their child; other women will have their trauma and victimization compounded. None of us can decide which is the right outcome for her.

pandora

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

pandora wrote:

it remains the choice of Mom ...

No, it is not. Not according to the Official Republican National Convention Platform. It's in plain black & white for everyone to read.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics ... ape-incest

Yes, I have heard about the human life amendment, it will not happen....
but stiffer restrictions could possibly. Just as stricter restrictions could happen with gun laws.
The Freedom Party could preserve the right to choose.

gimmesometruth27

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

pandora wrote:

it remains the choice of Mom ...

and the only reason that it remains the choice of the mom is that Democrats and independents have fought to keep abortions legal and accessible to women.

If people like Akin and Ryan and Romney and Huckabee get their way the mom will have no choice but to carry a baby, even if will be born with severe brain damage, no lungs, no brain, vital organs on the outside or with two heads. Or dead.

exactly. and if romney gets elected, and the gop wins the house and senate, with the conservative majority on the supreme court....bye bye roe v wade, hello "you are knocked up, you deal with it..."

pandora

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

pandora wrote:

it remains the choice of Mom ...

and the only reason that it remains the choice of the mom is that Democrats and independents have fought to keep abortions legal and accessible to women.

If people like Akin and Ryan and Romney and Huckabee get their way the mom will have no choice but to carry a baby, even if will be born with severe brain damage, no lungs, no brain, vital organs on the outside or with two heads. Or dead.

That will not happen whether they get in office or not...

This is the kind of fear that separates people, causes them to pick a party and go to extreme.
I am an Independent that will weigh the issues and it might not be abortion it might be the
economy.

Is it true Democrats including our President have supported legislation
that would not offer medical care to sustain the life of a baby
that is aborted and survives?

I will have to research this...

pandora

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

pandora wrote:

it remains the choice of Mom ...

and the only reason that it remains the choice of the mom is that Democrats and independents have fought to keep abortions legal and accessible to women.

If people like Akin and Ryan and Romney and Huckabee get their way the mom will have no choice but to carry a baby, even if will be born with severe brain damage, no lungs, no brain, vital organs on the outside or with two heads. Or dead.

exactly. and if romney gets elected, and the gop wins the house and senate, with the conservative majority on the supreme court....bye bye roe v wade, hello "you are knocked up, you deal with it..."

this is a bit like the sky is falling ...

did guns magically disappear under this administration?

now we are reversing roe vs wade ...

fear so one votes along party lines.

comebackgirl

so if a woman does become pregnant as a result of rape, would the rapist have parental rights? Considering the majority of rapes go unreported and those that are reported are rarely prosecuted (9%),it seems like he would either have parental rights or the survivor would be forced to try and prosecute; and what if she does prosecute and he isn't given a felony conviction (5%), would he still have rights then? I've seen countless cases of domestic violence in which the abuser has been physically abusive to the mother during her pregnancy and in front of the child, but if he hasn't directly abused the child he still has parental rights.

riotgrl

comebackgirl wrote:

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

brianlux wrote:

What the hell is Huckabee's point anyway? Sheesh. Talk about trolls!

The point which ya'll seem to be missing is pretty simple actually.
Instead of terminating a pregnancy from a rape out of fear, or anger, or negative emotions ... you could transmute your pain and raise a beautiful child, instead of ending it's life.
After all, the child isn't to blame.

]

I understand your point about abortion, but trauma recovery really isn't this simple. Recovery is different for everyone and some people never heal. I think it's important for women to have the choice rather than forcing them into something that could be a re-victimization. They shouldn't be punished either nor made to feel guilty or selfish if their healing doesn't happen the way some think it should. A fetus is impacted by the ongoing trauma of the mother just as she is. If a woman has the choice to continue the pregnancy she may be able to recover in the manner you mentioned, but take that choice away and mom and child may both still be victims.

Exactly what I was thinking, only better said. If a woman can put aside HOW the child was conceived and can love and nurture that child then that choice is noble and could result in a wonderful bond between mother and child. However, what if she cannot overcome what was done to her? She'll view that child as a constant reminder of what happened to her and may relive that rape over and over. How does that benefit the child? The child will be marginalized possibly abused and victimized through no fault of his or her own. Allow the woman the choice rather than creating circumstances in which a bad situation (the rape) becomes an even worse situation (the destruction of the woman and child through a difficult and traumatic life.)

comebackgirl

riotgrl wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

The point which ya'll seem to be missing is pretty simple actually.
Instead of terminating a pregnancy from a rape out of fear, or anger, or negative emotions ... you could transmute your pain and raise a beautiful child, instead of ending it's life.
After all, the child isn't to blame.

]

I understand your point about abortion, but trauma recovery really isn't this simple. Recovery is different for everyone and some people never heal. I think it's important for women to have the choice rather than forcing them into something that could be a re-victimization. They shouldn't be punished either nor made to feel guilty or selfish if their healing doesn't happen the way some think it should. A fetus is impacted by the ongoing trauma of the mother just as she is. If a woman has the choice to continue the pregnancy she may be able to recover in the manner you mentioned, but take that choice away and mom and child may both still be victims.

Exactly what I was thinking, only better said. If a woman can put aside HOW the child was conceived and can love and nurture that child then that choice is noble and could result in a wonderful bond between mother and child. However, what if she cannot overcome what was done to her? She'll view that child as a constant reminder of what happened to her and may relive that rape over and over. How does that benefit the child? The child will be marginalized possibly abused and victimized through no fault of his or her own. Allow the woman the choice rather than creating circumstances in which a bad situation (the rape) becomes an even worse situation (the destruction of the woman and child through a difficult and traumatic life.)

Really well said. I am currently working with a woman who was raped 31 years ago, whose life is still so fractured from the trauma of the assault and the lack of support she received afterwards. She never wanted children of her own because she knew she couldn't survive the trauma of childbirth and was worried about her ability to attach to any child, including children conceived consensually. Even regular OB/GYN visits can be traumatic for survivors. We received a lot of referrals from OB/GYNs when I did rape crisis. The trauma of this if a woman does not have the ability to choose cannot be underestimated

catefrances

dear stupid men,

will you please just shut the fuck up.. for all our sakes.


thank you,
women of the world.

puremagic

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

The point which ya'll seem to be missing is pretty simple actually.
Instead of terminating a pregnancy from a rape out of fear, or anger, or negative emotions ... you could transmute your pain and raise a beautiful child, instead of ending it's life.
After all, the child isn't to blame.

No, the point being missed is that GOVERNMENT elected officials of United States of America at both the State and Federal level want to institute a LAW that FORCES women to conceive children of an unwanted act of Rape, citing that the LAW states that NO Rape occurred if a child resulted.

I'll guarantee you, that no government official stepped in an told these two women that they were required by LAW to carry their pregnancy to full term or face criminal charges.

For every two people Huckabee can find as productive citizens of Rape, you could find 4 murders who were products of rapes. You could find 4 rapists who were products of a rapist. So Huckabee's analysis implying that something good can come out of Rape is bullshit unless a woman has the right of choice.

The woman who is a VICTIM of rape is also not to blame.