can you at least acknowledge that the climate in which the 2nd ammendment was written is different to what is faced today? or dont you think its so? and if that is the case then surely changes need to be made... for the benefit and health of the american society? this is afterall the 21st century, NOT the 1700s.
Jesus... (and I don't pray) you are, for lack of a better term, clueless on this subject.
:roll:
I'll throw an eyeroll on top of that one too. :roll:
I dont really question whether guns should be legal or not. But I do think there is a gun problem in the US in the year 2012. Its a scary culture to me. I dont think many people sat around in the 1700's and discusses gun control problems, accidents, massacres at malls, and issues surrounding gun safety as we do today. It is a different climate, no doubt, and I think Cate makes a good discussion point.
Please to be reading the linked article and/or thread. It's kinda the point of the whole thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_Trade_Treaty
Advocates of the treaty claim that it only pertains to international arms trade, and would have no effect on current domestic laws. These advocates point to the UN General Assembly resolution starting the process on the Arms Trade Treaty. The resolution explicitly states that it is “the exclusive right of States to regulate internal transfers of arms and national ownership, including through constitutional protections on private ownership.”
Critics of course say the potential is otherwise. Let us hope that the advocates are correct.
Jesus... (and I don't pray) you are, for lack of a better term, clueless on this subject.
:roll:
I'll throw an eyeroll on top of that one too. :roll:
I dont really question whether guns should be legal or not. But I do think there is a gun problem in the US in the year 2012. Its a scary culture to me. I dont think many people sat around in the 1700's and discusses gun control problems, accidents, massacres at malls, and issues surrounding gun safety as we do today. It is a different climate, no doubt, and I think Cate makes a good discussion point.
If people did start to question that the intent of guns, and therefore the 2nd amendment, is different today then I think we would really have to question why we would allow certain guns to be legal in this country. Do you need an assault weapon to go deer hunting? Or even to defend yourself? I don't believe in owning guns at all and would certainly rather live in an America with no guns but I will concede that you have a "right" to own a gun whether I like it or not. So why can't we have limitations? If you are still allowed to own your handgun to defend yourself or a shotgun to go deer hunting where is the harm in banning other types of weapons? And if you are a law abiding citizen, how does having a permit and registering your weapon infringe upon your right to own a gun? No where in the 2nd Amendment does it guarantee your right to an assault weapon. In the state of KY, you don't have to have a license, register your gun, we have no assault weapon law, and we have conceal carry laws which only restrict taking a concealed weapon into a govt. building, like a school. We have stricter laws about adopting pets from the humane society. I have to get a license to go fishing but to carry a weapon with which to kill someone is ok? Sorry, own your gun but I have a "right" to "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness." Why is your right more important than mine? As far as this treaty is concerned, when America stops telling other nations what weapons they can own/create then we might have some moral justification for becoming incensed about the UN treaty.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
The intent of 2A is no different today than when it was written, and if you people had bothered to read MotoDC's replies the question was already answered.
I'm not sure if you two are being willfully ignorant or something else altogether, so perhaps it would behoove me to get some explicit clarity on your stance here. Honest question...do you believe:
a) Barack Obama is not trying to curtail the rights of gun owners; or
b) Barack Obama IS trying to curtail the rights of gun owners, but has so far failed to do so.
:?:
I'll retype my answer I've already responded to your query....
I answer A)
your turn:
what gun freedom has been lost since Obama has been in office...?
The intent of 2A is no different today than when it was written, and if you people had bothered to read MotoDC's replies the question was already answered.
Disagree.
I read Motos response. I liked it. I've got no problem with that.
I still don't see why we can't question the level of caliber of some firearms and magazine capacity. I mean, we actually do have a limit, correct? I think you cannot go buy an M4. Is my 2A rights infringed upon because I cannot own an M4? The firearms of today were not even dreamed of when 2A was drafted.
what gun freedom has been lost since Obama has been in office...?
In truth, Obama has been a boon for gun sales. He has been a boon for the NRA. He is the perfect boogeyman even though I've never seen him take a huge stand on gun control.
If I had a time machine, along with the sports almanac, I would tell 2007 Jason P to open a gun and ammo store, call it Biffco, and I'd be rolling in the dough on the 27th floor of the Pleasure Palace as we speak.
my discomfort with iran is my personal view, I do not trust irans government or the muslim faith people there or here for that matter and that's that where my reply on iran ends.
Ah, there it is!
Reminds of another 'answer'/'opinion' some time ago relating to homosexuality. But we won't go into that.
Godfather, I don't mean this in any offensive way, but what do you actually know about Iran, or about the Muslim faith, other than what you may have read on an American bumper sticker?
It's a serious question. Have you actually read anything, anywhere, about the Muslim faith? You see, bigotry and racism are dangerous things. If you let them fester they can turn very ugly. I mean, if we've learned anything from the Nazi era, then surely we've learned that much, right?
What do you actually know, in a nutshell, about Iran, or the Muslim religion?
I know it has been somewhat common for men of the muslim faith to kill their daughters and wifes just out of honor and that it is also common knowledge that many believe that non muslim believers should die,I also know all this honor killing by muslim men is happening here in the USA and don't bother comparing the US or Christains to Muslims here in the states I don't really want to go into it with you but if you are that bord have at it but don't expect a response from me on the subject anymore...you don't even live here man and the only bumber sticker on my truck is a Romney for prez sticker. what do yoiu know about bigotry or racism other than your opinion ? and why is everything that does not fit into your little basket of morals labled racism or bigotry ? com'n buddy we've been over this many times do we have to keep doing it ?
giving the info of the American gun owner to other countries espically IRAN jepordizes the personal safety of every American.
How is Iran Jeopardizing the safety of any American? (And in case there's any confusion; my question is related to the real World, as opposed to any fantasyland).
In the real World, how is Iran Jeopardizing the safety of any American?
Iran is not jeopardizing our safety. That is a lie! If we really wanted to be safe, we would leave them the hell alone and pull out of all of our bases that are surrounding them.
I'd be pissed too if a country was starting to surround my country.
and why is everything that does not fit into your little basket of morals labled racism or bigotry ? com'n buddy we've been over this many times do we have to keep doing it ?
Godfather.
GF, saying you don't trust a whole ideology or race of people is not "fitting into a little basket of morals", that is the exact definition of racism and bigotry.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I read the article in full, and every single response. And I don't have one fucking problem with the UN finally standing up and telling the US Supreme Leaders of the Free World that they are not in fact that, but in reality the UN runs the damn show. How it was set up to be in the first place. The US should have have been sancationed up the Arkansas after they asked permission last time, got denied, and went ahead and did it anyway.
However, if it is true that foreign governments would gain access to individuals' personal information, it doesn't matter if it's gun ownership or what kind of milk they buy, that's no one's business but their own. that IS an infringement on personal privacy. I personally couldn't find any reason in the article why that would even be in the agreement. Can someone clarify the point of this?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I know it has been somewhat common for men of the muslim faith to kill their daughters and wifes just out of honor and that it is also common knowledge that many believe that non muslim believers should die,I also know all this honor killing by muslim men is happening here in the USA and don't bother comparing the US or Christains to Muslims here in the states I don't really want to go into it with you but if you are that bord have at it but don't expect a response from me on the subject anymore...you don't even live here man and the only bumber sticker on my truck is a Romney for prez sticker. what do yoiu know about bigotry or racism other than your opinion ? and why is everything that does not fit into your little basket of morals labled racism or bigotry ? com'n buddy we've been over this many times do we have to keep doing it ?
Godfather.
it is also somewhat common for Americans of any faith or race (christian or otherwise) to regularly beat the shit out of their wife and/or family, sometimes to the point of death because they didn't centre the cheese on the burger. what's your point?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I know it has been somewhat common for men of the muslim faith to kill their daughters and wifes just out of honor and that it is also common knowledge that many believe that non muslim believers should die,I also know all this honor killing by muslim men is happening here in the USA and don't bother comparing the US or Christains to Muslims here in the states I don't really want to go into it with you but if you are that bord have at it but don't expect a response from me on the subject anymore...you don't even live here man and the only bumber sticker on my truck is a Romney for prez sticker. what do yoiu know about bigotry or racism other than your opinion ? and why is everything that does not fit into your little basket of morals labled racism or bigotry ? com'n buddy we've been over this many times do we have to keep doing it ?
Godfather.
it is also somewhat common for Americans of any faith or race (christian or otherwise) to regularly beat the shit out of their wife and/or family, sometimes to the point of death because they didn't centre the cheese on the burger. what's your point?
point is everyone knows that the burger is gross if the cheese isn't centered...but to the both of you, domestic violence is universal and disgusting.
I could not disagree more. The UN is a collection of nations with only the power the group subscribes to...if someone wants to impose sanctions on the US they are more than welcome to try...that is the problem with it...how many security council members will ever be sanctioned? Why are they the members? The US, Iran, France, and all the others are sovereign nations and should behave like it. Ceding power to the UN is only applicable if it is something the member nation agrees with...
The organization does some good, but like all pseudo-gov't organizations it is wrought with corruption and inefficiency...They are not now, nor were they ever in charge of our or any other country. It is like being a member of the elks club...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
my discomfort with iran is my personal view, I do not trust irans government or the muslim faith people there or here for that matter and that's that where my reply on iran ends.
Ah, there it is!
Reminds of another 'answer'/'opinion' some time ago relating to homosexuality. But we won't go into that.
Godfather, I don't mean this in any offensive way, but what do you actually know about Iran, or about the Muslim faith, other than what you may have read on an American bumper sticker?
It's a serious question. Have you actually read anything, anywhere, about the Muslim faith? You see, bigotry and racism are dangerous things. If you let them fester they can turn very ugly. I mean, if we've learned anything from the Nazi era, then surely we've learned that much, right?
What do you actually know, in a nutshell, about Iran, or the Muslim religion?
I know it has been somewhat common for men of the muslim faith to kill their daughters and wifes just out of honor and that it is also common knowledge that many believe that non muslim believers should die,I also know all this honor killing by muslim men is happening here in the USA and don't bother comparing the US or Christains to Muslims here in the states I don't really want to go into it with you but if you are that bord have at it but don't expect a response from me on the subject anymore...you don't even live here man and the only bumber sticker on my truck is a Romney for prez sticker. what do yoiu know about bigotry or racism other than your opinion ? and why is everything that does not fit into your little basket of morals labled racism or bigotry ? com'n buddy we've been over this many times do we have to keep doing it ?
Godfather.
:fp:
I nearly stopped reading when i read "I know it has been somewhat common for men of the muslim faith to kill their daughters and wifes just out of honor" and did stop reading when i read "it is also common knowledge that many believe that non muslim believers should die,I also know all this honor killing by muslim men is happening here in the USA"
common knowledge?
somewhat common?
no its not, does it happen yes but it is close to fifty a year in these countries, that is not somewhat common. it is far too much but how many women in america are killed by their husband or father?
and why is everything that does not fit into your little basket of morals labled racism or bigotry ? com'n buddy we've been over this many times do we have to keep doing it ?
Godfather.
GF, saying you don't trust a whole ideology or race of people is not "fitting into a little basket of morals", that is the exact definition of racism and bigotry.
because I don't trust them that's racism ? naw man that's not it to me, if you and met or even not and for some reason you did not trust me would I have to believe that you are racist ? answer is no in my mind anyway.
I may see things a little differently than most on this forum,maybe I trust don't muslims right now and maybe I don't agree with certin subjects that are discusged on this forum and have lashed out at a few of you (sorry for that) but I don't see anger or opinion as racism or bigotry infact ...really you all only know what each of post on this form not the person and I understand comments that are posted in debate may not be what a person has in their heart or how they feel about all people, honestly I treat everybody I meet just as I expect to be treated...does not mean I trust them,I might even dislike them after I meet them depending on how the encounter goes but it has nothing to do with racism, I just don't see life that way.
because I don't trust them that's racism ? naw man that's not it to me, if you and met or even not and for some reason you did not trust me would I have to believe that you are racist ? answer is no in my mind anyway.
I may see things a little differently than most on this forum,maybe I trust don't muslims right now and maybe I don't agree with certin subjects that are discusged on this forum and have lashed out at a few of you (sorry for that) but I don't see anger or opinion as racism or bigotry infact ...really you all only know what each of post on this form not the person and I understand comments that are posted in debate may not be what a person has in their heart or how they feel about all people, honestly I treat everybody I meet just as I expect to be treated...does not mean I trust them,I might even dislike them after I meet them depending on how the encounter goes but it has nothing to do with racism, I just don't see life that way.
Godfather.
the difference between
1) distrusting/disliking an INDIVIDUAL based on experience with that individual and
2) not trusting an ideology or WHOLE RACE OF PEOPLE based on ANYTHING
is called racism and bigotry. it's not an opinion, mine or anyone else's. it's factual definition.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I could not disagree more. The UN is a collection of nations with only the power the group subscribes to...if someone wants to impose sanctions on the US they are more than welcome to try...that is the problem with it...how many security council members will ever be sanctioned? Why are they the members? The US, Iran, France, and all the others are sovereign nations and should behave like it. Ceding power to the UN is only applicable if it is something the member nation agrees with...
The organization does some good, but like all pseudo-gov't organizations it is wrought with corruption and inefficiency...They are not now, nor were they ever in charge of our or any other country. It is like being a member of the elks club...
I never said they were IN CHARGE of any country. When I said "UN runs the show", I was paraphrasing, as in when it comes to internationally significant matters, not domestic ones.
In the matter of world affairs, such as wars, human rights, etc, they are supposed to be the collective fascilitators of common sense. My point was it's nice to see that the UN isn't just buckling under US government pressure. They did NOTHING after GWB attacked Iraq after asking for, and being denied, UN consent. The US completely undermined the whole reason the US is there. Because of this, the US government is responsible for the UN appearing as though they are nothing but global window dressing. The UN is supposed to be the government's government in these situations, to stop Hitler from happening all over again.
It's not like being part of the Elk's club. Unfortunately, your government's actions have taught you to think that it is.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
because I don't trust them that's racism ? naw man that's not it to me, if you and met or even not and for some reason you did not trust me would I have to believe that you are racist ? answer is no in my mind anyway.
I may see things a little differently than most on this forum,maybe I trust don't muslims right now and maybe I don't agree with certin subjects that are discusged on this forum and have lashed out at a few of you (sorry for that) but I don't see anger or opinion as racism or bigotry infact ...really you all only know what each of post on this form not the person and I understand comments that are posted in debate may not be what a person has in their heart or how they feel about all people, honestly I treat everybody I meet just as I expect to be treated...does not mean I trust them,I might even dislike them after I meet them depending on how the encounter goes but it has nothing to do with racism, I just don't see life that way.
Godfather.
the difference between
1) distrusting/disliking an INDIVIDUAL based on experience with that individual and
2) not trusting an ideology or WHOLE RACE OF PEOPLE based on ANYTHING
is called racism and bigotry. it's not an opinion, mine or anyone else's. it's factual definition.
So we can all agree its just human nature to be a bigot or raciest......according to this definition
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Comments
I'll throw an eyeroll on top of that one too. :roll:
I dont really question whether guns should be legal or not. But I do think there is a gun problem in the US in the year 2012. Its a scary culture to me. I dont think many people sat around in the 1700's and discusses gun control problems, accidents, massacres at malls, and issues surrounding gun safety as we do today. It is a different climate, no doubt, and I think Cate makes a good discussion point.
If people did start to question that the intent of guns, and therefore the 2nd amendment, is different today then I think we would really have to question why we would allow certain guns to be legal in this country. Do you need an assault weapon to go deer hunting? Or even to defend yourself? I don't believe in owning guns at all and would certainly rather live in an America with no guns but I will concede that you have a "right" to own a gun whether I like it or not. So why can't we have limitations? If you are still allowed to own your handgun to defend yourself or a shotgun to go deer hunting where is the harm in banning other types of weapons? And if you are a law abiding citizen, how does having a permit and registering your weapon infringe upon your right to own a gun? No where in the 2nd Amendment does it guarantee your right to an assault weapon. In the state of KY, you don't have to have a license, register your gun, we have no assault weapon law, and we have conceal carry laws which only restrict taking a concealed weapon into a govt. building, like a school. We have stricter laws about adopting pets from the humane society. I have to get a license to go fishing but to carry a weapon with which to kill someone is ok? Sorry, own your gun but I have a "right" to "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness." Why is your right more important than mine? As far as this treaty is concerned, when America stops telling other nations what weapons they can own/create then we might have some moral justification for becoming incensed about the UN treaty.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I'll retype my answer I've already responded to your query....
I answer A)
your turn:
what gun freedom has been lost since Obama has been in office...?
Disagree.
I read Motos response. I liked it. I've got no problem with that.
I still don't see why we can't question the level of caliber of some firearms and magazine capacity. I mean, we actually do have a limit, correct? I think you cannot go buy an M4. Is my 2A rights infringed upon because I cannot own an M4? The firearms of today were not even dreamed of when 2A was drafted.
If I had a time machine, along with the sports almanac, I would tell 2007 Jason P to open a gun and ammo store, call it Biffco, and I'd be rolling in the dough on the 27th floor of the Pleasure Palace as we speak.
I know it has been somewhat common for men of the muslim faith to kill their daughters and wifes just out of honor and that it is also common knowledge that many believe that non muslim believers should die,I also know all this honor killing by muslim men is happening here in the USA and don't bother comparing the US or Christains to Muslims here in the states I don't really want to go into it with you but if you are that bord have at it but don't expect a response from me on the subject anymore...you don't even live here man and the only bumber sticker on my truck is a Romney for prez sticker.
Godfather.
:yawn:
Godfather.
GF, saying you don't trust a whole ideology or race of people is not "fitting into a little basket of morals", that is the exact definition of racism and bigotry.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
However, if it is true that foreign governments would gain access to individuals' personal information, it doesn't matter if it's gun ownership or what kind of milk they buy, that's no one's business but their own. that IS an infringement on personal privacy. I personally couldn't find any reason in the article why that would even be in the agreement. Can someone clarify the point of this?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
it is also somewhat common for Americans of any faith or race (christian or otherwise) to regularly beat the shit out of their wife and/or family, sometimes to the point of death because they didn't centre the cheese on the burger. what's your point?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
point is everyone knows that the burger is gross if the cheese isn't centered...but to the both of you, domestic violence is universal and disgusting.
As for this comment:
I could not disagree more. The UN is a collection of nations with only the power the group subscribes to...if someone wants to impose sanctions on the US they are more than welcome to try...that is the problem with it...how many security council members will ever be sanctioned? Why are they the members? The US, Iran, France, and all the others are sovereign nations and should behave like it. Ceding power to the UN is only applicable if it is something the member nation agrees with...
The organization does some good, but like all pseudo-gov't organizations it is wrought with corruption and inefficiency...They are not now, nor were they ever in charge of our or any other country. It is like being a member of the elks club...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
:fp:
I nearly stopped reading when i read "I know it has been somewhat common for men of the muslim faith to kill their daughters and wifes just out of honor" and did stop reading when i read "it is also common knowledge that many believe that non muslim believers should die,I also know all this honor killing by muslim men is happening here in the USA"
common knowledge?
somewhat common?
no its not, does it happen yes but it is close to fifty a year in these countries, that is not somewhat common. it is far too much but how many women in america are killed by their husband or father?
because I don't trust them that's racism ? naw man that's not it to me, if you and met or even not and for some reason you did not trust me would I have to believe that you are racist ? answer is no in my mind anyway.
I may see things a little differently than most on this forum,maybe I trust don't muslims right now and maybe I don't agree with certin subjects that are discusged on this forum and have lashed out at a few of you
Godfather.
the difference between
1) distrusting/disliking an INDIVIDUAL based on experience with that individual and
2) not trusting an ideology or WHOLE RACE OF PEOPLE based on ANYTHING
is called racism and bigotry. it's not an opinion, mine or anyone else's. it's factual definition.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
that was my point entirely
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I never said they were IN CHARGE of any country. When I said "UN runs the show", I was paraphrasing, as in when it comes to internationally significant matters, not domestic ones.
In the matter of world affairs, such as wars, human rights, etc, they are supposed to be the collective fascilitators of common sense. My point was it's nice to see that the UN isn't just buckling under US government pressure. They did NOTHING after GWB attacked Iraq after asking for, and being denied, UN consent. The US completely undermined the whole reason the US is there. Because of this, the US government is responsible for the UN appearing as though they are nothing but global window dressing. The UN is supposed to be the government's government in these situations, to stop Hitler from happening all over again.
It's not like being part of the Elk's club. Unfortunately, your government's actions have taught you to think that it is.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
So we can all agree its just human nature to be a bigot or raciest......according to this definition
Oh dear. :fp:
not my nature, no. read it again.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPn0KFlbqX8