National Rifle Association’s Wayne LaPierre, warn the treaty would mark a major step toward the eventual erosion of the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment gun-ownership rights.
Americans “just don’t want the UN to be acting as a global nanny with a global permission slip stating whether they can own a gun or not,” LaPierre said. “It cheapens our rights as American citizens, and weakens our sovereignty,”
doesn't anyone else find it weird that this guy complains about the UN dictating who can own a gun while at the same time the USA and the UN is telling other countries that they can't have weapons themselves.
wayne lapierre's MO is to warn of major steps towards the erosion of the second amendment's gun ownership rights. that is all he ever says. based on what, who knows?
I just don't understand how foreign governments can restrict how americans can buy guns? maybe I am just not smart enough so can some please tell me that.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
can you at least acknowledge that the climate in which the 2nd ammendment was written is different to what is faced today? or dont you think its so? and if that is the case then surely changes need to be made... for the benefit and health of the american society? this is afterall the 21st century, NOT the 1700s.
Jesus... (and I don't pray) you are, for lack of a better term, clueless on this subject.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
From 30 feet away? I'm impressed. Not that I can't hit a paper target with my Glock from that distance, but it better be sitting damned still!
I like how the aussie is approaching this topic -- though I disagree with her POV -- so I'll try to answer a couple of her questions.
Defense against what? A number of things, I'm sure, but here are a couple examples:
-- Criminals with ill intent towards innocents (whether it be my family, friends, or others)
-- Other armed militias (yes I see the mild irony there)
-- US Gov't. Yes this sounds ridiculous in the face of tanks and laser-guided bombs and trained infantry, but if it was so easy for tech and training to overwhelm, would we still be in Afghanistan and Iraq? It's a deterrent of tyranny, if nothing else. And anyhow, if we're at the point where the US Gov't is using overwhelming force inside its own borders, on its own citizens -- all bets are probably off by then anyway. If by then you don't have a gun, you'll be wishing you did when all the local grocery stores are empty and there's no electricity in your house.
-- Hunting. Why do I have to be dependent on others for my food? Granted this applies to a select few people in practice these days (at least insofar as people independently meeting ALL their food needs), but that doesn't make it an illegitimate point.
-- Zombies. Do you guys get the Walking Dead tv series down under? Shit is for reals.
Is the country/environment different than in the 18th century?
Yes of course, in many ways, but in many ways we've just traded one threat for another. For example, our political leaders then were visionaries with a pursuit for liberty as their primary directive (Some rose-tinted glasses there, left over from my US History courses in high school, I'll admit, but compared to the representatives of today? C'mon.). So we had better leaders, leading a less-powerful military. Now we have questionable leaders, leading an insanely powerful military. Which do I need more protection from?
Just a starting point here. This topic is pretty old hat on AMT, so I don't think it's necessary to trot out example after example here.
For the part about Iran, meh, that's just icing on the big slice of shit-cake that is the UN regulating anything inside my own borders.
what gun freedom has been lost that you had the day before obama took office?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
edited July 2012
He is setting all of this up for a second term, that is why his re-election is very dangerous to the 2A, not to mention freedom in general.
We've been over this before, you refuse to believe anything that I type even though the evidence is squarely put in front of you. He has something to lose now, he wins re-election all bets are off.
"Tell Vladimir, this is my last election, after my election, I have more flexibility.”
I love the first comment: "This guy is the best damn website ever."
Hey guys, I'm MotoDC.com/maxheadroom. Vote for me.
AND AS FOR YOU, gimmie, I'm just going to enjoy the humor of the link you provided and not worry about countering whatever point you were trying to make. :nono: Because, let's face it, you weren't making any more of a point than I am with the following. Pure education. Enjoy.
what gun freedom has been lost that you had the day before obama took office?
none...
It's amazing how paranoid gun owners can be...
I'm not sure if you two are being willfully ignorant or something else altogether, so perhaps it would behoove me to get some explicit clarity on your stance here. Honest question...do you believe:
a) Barack Obama is not trying to curtail the rights of gun owners; or
b) Barack Obama IS trying to curtail the rights of gun owners, but has so far failed to do so.
what gun freedom has been lost that you had the day before obama took office?
none...
It's amazing how paranoid gun owners can be...
I'm not sure if you two are being willfully ignorant or something else altogether, so perhaps it would behoove me to get some explicit clarity on your stance here. Honest question...do you believe:
a) Barack Obama is not trying to curtail the rights of gun owners; or
b) Barack Obama IS trying to curtail the rights of gun owners, but has so far failed to do so.
:?:
I answer A)
your turn:
what gun freedom has been lost since Obama has been in office...?
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,426
...or even limit guns but I would beseech you to consider a few things.
People with this opinion exist, but I know very few gun owners who are for a full-on laissez faire approach.
Firstly, in general NRA supporters project much greater concern for being able to keep their guns than for the safety and well being of others. You can argue that you aren't like that but I'm talking about the way NRA/gun supports project themselves as a whole.
Again, I'm sure people like that exist, but the reason for the impression you get is that they're beyond that point. That is, it goes without saying (from their point of view) that keeping their guns = greater safety and well being for themselves and the people around them.
Secondly, in general gun supporters too seldom consider other forms of self-protection
Karate chop? Please elaborate.
or take into consideration that far too often guns are used too quickly and easily in fits of rage
Once is probably far too often for you, regardless of any other argument, so I'll not take the bait on this one.
or in planned use against innocent people like the congresswoman mentioned.
Extreme events are extreme. Further, high-cap magazines, like the one used in the horrible incident with the congresswoman, are illegal to produce (and sell? not sure about that) almost everywhere, though some old ones are grandfathered in.
Thirdly, gun owners don't like to admit that for many, the whole gun thing is another form of dick waving which at its roots is a psychology of insecurity and self doubt. Those who argue most strongly against this might have the biggest issues that way.
Thanks for setting up that inarguable scenario. Clever trick. Careful, nobody argue with brian lest he be profiled for phallus insufficiency.
No trick intended (and I'm certainly not concerned about my phallus status ).
So let me clarify. I'm just trying to point out some of the problems with guns that seem to be overlooked by many gun owners and associations such as the NRA. I don't see this as a result of "liberal media" but rather the image the NRA, Ted What's-his-face and so forth project. So really, I'm probably hurting my cause (get rid of guns) and helping yours (fire away) by pointing out what is projected by a big portion of gun owners.
Like I said, as much as I hate to admit it, I don't see guns going away but regardless, I'll always advocate for making them more difficult to obtain and insuring that gun owners are better trained and held accountable for egregious actions involving fire arms.
Oh, and I'm also biased- I freely admit this- I have neighbors who legally but rudely shot on their property in my neighborhood. This frightens off wildlife and birds, frightens local pets and forces me indoors more often than I care to think. You'd think they could go to the near by firing range but, no, they have their "constitutional freedoms"-- even if they do interfere with the peace and quiet most of the neighbors would prefer. Do you think they care? Hell no.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
This is why we need to keep our guns!
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
can you at least acknowledge that the climate in which the 2nd ammendment was written is different to what is faced today? or dont you think its so? and if that is the case then surely changes need to be made... for the benefit and health of the american society? this is afterall the 21st century, NOT the 1700s.
Jesus... (and I don't pray) you are, for lack of a better term, clueless on this subject.
:roll:
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
what gun freedom has been lost since Obama has been in office...?
:?:
:corn:
The sad thing is people WILL sit around eating popcorn and just watch it happen..............
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
giving the info of the American gun owner to other countries espically IRAN jepordizes the personal safety of every American.
How is Iran Jeopardizing the safety of any American? (And in case there's any confusion; my question is related to the real World, as opposed to any fantasyland).
In the real World, how is Iran Jeopardizing the safety of any American?
my discomfort with iran is my personal view, I do not trust irans government or the muslim faith people there or here for that matter and that's that where my reply on iran ends.
Ah, there it is!
Reminds of another 'answer'/'opinion' some time ago relating to homosexuality. But we won't go into that.
Godfather, I don't mean this in any offensive way, but what do you actually know about Iran, or about the Muslim faith, other than what you may have read on an American bumper sticker?
It's a serious question. Have you actually read anything, anywhere, about the Muslim faith? You see, bigotry and racism are dangerous things. If you let them fester they can turn very ugly. I mean, if we've learned anything from the Nazi era, then surely we've learned that much, right?
What do you actually know, in a nutshell, about Iran, or the Muslim religion?
Defense against what? A number of things, I'm sure, but here are a couple examples:
-- Criminals with ill intent towards innocents (whether it be my family, friends, or others)
-- Other armed militias (yes I see the mild irony there)
-- US Gov't. Yes this sounds ridiculous in the face of tanks and laser-guided bombs and trained infantry, but if it was so easy for tech and training to overwhelm, would we still be in Afghanistan and Iraq? It's a deterrent of tyranny, if nothing else. And anyhow, if we're at the point where the US Gov't is using overwhelming force inside its own borders, on its own citizens -- all bets are probably off by then anyway. If by then you don't have a gun, you'll be wishing you did when all the local grocery stores are empty and there's no electricity in your house.
-- Hunting. Why do I have to be dependent on others for my food? Granted this applies to a select few people in practice these days (at least insofar as people independently meeting ALL their food needs), but that doesn't make it an illegitimate point.
You forgot to mention the little green men from outer space, and Godzilla.
what gun freedom has been lost since Obama has been in office...?
:?:
:corn:
The sad thing is people WILL sit around eating popcorn and just watch it happen..............
The slippery slope argument regarding gun control has been used by the NRA for many years. At what point will we be losing our gun rights, or if we don't', at what point does the slippery slope argument lose credibility?
The sad thing is people WILL sit around eating popcorn and just watch it happen..............
watch what happen...?
why....for the Obama-funded Haitian Zombie Army to come and take all the guns from the hands of responsible white Americans and then goes and eats IHOP out of business, of course.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,426
The sad thing is people WILL sit around eating popcorn and just watch it happen..............
watch what happen...?
why....for the Obama-funded Haitian Zombie Army to come and take all the guns from the hands of responsible white Americans and then goes and eats IHOP out of business, of course.
That's right, Hugh, only it's IHOI, International House Of Insanity.
What next? Obama becomes a Transformer and turns into a Marxist Kenyan Cyborg? And how long will all this deranged despotism take to unfold? Good Lord, we've become a Hollywood B rated movie.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
giving the info of the American gun owner to other countries espically IRAN jepordizes the personal safety of every American.
How is Iran Jeopardizing the safety of any American? (And in case there's any confusion; my question is related to the real World, as opposed to any fantasyland).
In the real World, how is Iran Jeopardizing the safety of any American?
Iran is not jeopardizing our safety. That is a lie! If we really wanted to be safe, we would leave them the hell alone and pull out of all of our bases that are surrounding them.
I'd be pissed too if a country was starting to surround my country.
Defense against what? A number of things, I'm sure, but here are a couple examples:
-- Criminals with ill intent towards innocents (whether it be my family, friends, or others)
-- Other armed militias (yes I see the mild irony there)
-- US Gov't. Yes this sounds ridiculous in the face of tanks and laser-guided bombs and trained infantry, but if it was so easy for tech and training to overwhelm, would we still be in Afghanistan and Iraq? It's a deterrent of tyranny, if nothing else. And anyhow, if we're at the point where the US Gov't is using overwhelming force inside its own borders, on its own citizens -- all bets are probably off by then anyway. If by then you don't have a gun, you'll be wishing you did when all the local grocery stores are empty and there's no electricity in your house.
-- Hunting. Why do I have to be dependent on others for my food? Granted this applies to a select few people in practice these days (at least insofar as people independently meeting ALL their food needs), but that doesn't make it an illegitimate point.
You forgot to mention the little green men from outer space, and Godzilla.
Because tyranny and crime are imaginary too amirite?
I'm not sure if you two are being willfully ignorant or something else altogether, so perhaps it would behoove me to get some explicit clarity on your stance here. Honest question...do you believe:
a) Barack Obama is not trying to curtail the rights of gun owners; or
b) Barack Obama IS trying to curtail the rights of gun owners, but has so far failed to do so.
Please to be reading the linked article and/or thread. It's kinda the point of the whole thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_Trade_Treaty
Advocates of the treaty claim that it only pertains to international arms trade, and would have no effect on current domestic laws. These advocates point to the UN General Assembly resolution starting the process on the Arms Trade Treaty. The resolution explicitly states that it is “the exclusive right of States to regulate internal transfers of arms and national ownership, including through constitutional protections on private ownership.”
Comments
I just don't understand how foreign governments can restrict how americans can buy guns? maybe I am just not smart enough so can some please tell me that.
Jesus... (and I don't pray) you are, for lack of a better term, clueless on this subject.
Technology is a good thing
From...
To...
Pretty much what I would have said. Good reply.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
We've been over this before, you refuse to believe anything that I type even though the evidence is squarely put in front of you. He has something to lose now, he wins re-election all bets are off.
"Tell Vladimir, this is my last election, after my election, I have more flexibility.”
Yeah, but.. Is having everyone running around with a damn iPhone such a good thing?
Been to a concert, lately?
Hail, Hail!!!
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
none...
It's amazing how paranoid gun owners can be...
Hey guys, I'm MotoDC.com/maxheadroom. Vote for me.
AND AS FOR YOU, gimmie, I'm just going to enjoy the humor of the link you provided and not worry about countering whatever point you were trying to make. :nono: Because, let's face it, you weren't making any more of a point than I am with the following. Pure education. Enjoy.
Grr
Funny times
a) Barack Obama is not trying to curtail the rights of gun owners; or
b) Barack Obama IS trying to curtail the rights of gun owners, but has so far failed to do so.
:?:
I answer A)
your turn:
what gun freedom has been lost since Obama has been in office...?
No trick intended (and I'm certainly not concerned about my phallus status
So let me clarify. I'm just trying to point out some of the problems with guns that seem to be overlooked by many gun owners and associations such as the NRA. I don't see this as a result of "liberal media" but rather the image the NRA, Ted What's-his-face and so forth project. So really, I'm probably hurting my cause (get rid of guns) and helping yours (fire away) by pointing out what is projected by a big portion of gun owners.
Like I said, as much as I hate to admit it, I don't see guns going away but regardless, I'll always advocate for making them more difficult to obtain and insuring that gun owners are better trained and held accountable for egregious actions involving fire arms.
Oh, and I'm also biased- I freely admit this- I have neighbors who legally but rudely shot on their property in my neighborhood. This frightens off wildlife and birds, frightens local pets and forces me indoors more often than I care to think. You'd think they could go to the near by firing range but, no, they have their "constitutional freedoms"-- even if they do interfere with the peace and quiet most of the neighbors would prefer. Do you think they care? Hell no.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
This is why we need to keep our guns!
:roll:
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
:corn:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
How is Iran Jeopardizing the safety of any American? (And in case there's any confusion; my question is related to the real World, as opposed to any fantasyland).
In the real World, how is Iran Jeopardizing the safety of any American?
Ah, there it is!
Reminds of another 'answer'/'opinion' some time ago relating to homosexuality. But we won't go into that.
Godfather, I don't mean this in any offensive way, but what do you actually know about Iran, or about the Muslim faith, other than what you may have read on an American bumper sticker?
It's a serious question. Have you actually read anything, anywhere, about the Muslim faith? You see, bigotry and racism are dangerous things. If you let them fester they can turn very ugly. I mean, if we've learned anything from the Nazi era, then surely we've learned that much, right?
What do you actually know, in a nutshell, about Iran, or the Muslim religion?
You forgot to mention the little green men from outer space, and Godzilla.
How does the U.N regulate anything inside your borders?
The slippery slope argument regarding gun control has been used by the NRA for many years. At what point will we be losing our gun rights, or if we don't', at what point does the slippery slope argument lose credibility?
watch what happen...?
why....for the Obama-funded Haitian Zombie Army to come and take all the guns from the hands of responsible white Americans and then goes and eats IHOP out of business, of course.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
That's right, Hugh, only it's IHOI, International House Of Insanity.
What next? Obama becomes a Transformer and turns into a Marxist Kenyan Cyborg? And how long will all this deranged despotism take to unfold? Good Lord, we've become a Hollywood B rated movie.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Iran is not jeopardizing our safety. That is a lie! If we really wanted to be safe, we would leave them the hell alone and pull out of all of our bases that are surrounding them.
I'd be pissed too if a country was starting to surround my country.
:thumbup:
Please to be reading the linked article and/or thread. It's kinda the point of the whole thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_Trade_Treaty
Advocates of the treaty claim that it only pertains to international arms trade, and would have no effect on current domestic laws. These advocates point to the UN General Assembly resolution starting the process on the Arms Trade Treaty. The resolution explicitly states that it is “the exclusive right of States to regulate internal transfers of arms and national ownership, including through constitutional protections on private ownership.”