best and worse USA presidents

STAYSEA

the best and worst US presidents weren't this idolized...


Che Guevara is an icon, but those who idolize him idolize a lie. Che was not a “freedom fighter.” He was a killer who enjoyed killing. He was, after all, Fidel Castro’s executioner.




He proudly claimed the deaths of 1400 boys, his own hands!

Tell us where you live again Byrnzie? Did you vote this year?

Did you forget you live in the United States?
Clinton was a decent president, can most of us agree?

STAYSEA

ComeToTX wrote:

Jason P wrote:

FrankieG wrote:

Although my favorite President is the 8th president, Van Buren. Because who remembers who the 8th president is? Not that many people. But I do

Back in the good ol' days when presidents could have crazy old-man hairdos.

A lot of Seinfeld fans remember Van Buren.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkpnOTr8 ... ata_player

This is the kind of President that is too hipster. He has my vote!

Byrnzie

petejm043 wrote:

Byrnzie if you want to say that both sides commited atrocities I will 100% agree with you. But to completly blame the United States is being short sighted.

So what you're saying here is that the situation in Guatemala in the 1980's was a level playing field between the forces of Communism, on the one hand, and the forces of Democracy, on the other? A level playing field? Now please explain to me how genocide occurs on a level playing field.

In the meantime, read on...

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/4/19/e ... es_role_of

In 1995, Allan Nairn was interviewed on Charlie Rose about his piece in The Nation called "CIA Death Squad," in which he described how Americans were directly involved in killings by the Guatemalan army. He was interviewed alongside Elliott Abrams, who challenged what he was saying.
Elliot Abrams had served as assistant secretary of state for human rights and humanitarian affairs under President Reagan from 1981 to 1985. This clip begins with Elliott Abrams.

ELLIOTT ABRAMS: Wait a minute. We’re not here to refight the Cold War. We’re here to talk about, I thought, a specific case in which an allegation is being made that—of the husband of an American and, another case, an American citizen were killed, and there was a CIA connection with—allegedly with the person allegedly involved in it. Now, I’m happy to talk about that kind of thing. If Mr. Nairn thinks we should have been on the other side in Guatemala—that is, we should have been in favor of a guerrilla victory—I disagree with him.

ALLAN NAIRN: So you’re then admitting that you were on the side of the Guatemalan military.

ELLIOTT ABRAMS: I am admitting that it was the policy of the United States, under Democrats and Republicans, approved by Congress repeatedly, to oppose a communist guerrilla victory anywhere in Central America, including in Guatemala.

CHARLIE ROSE: Alright, well, I—

ALLAN NAIRN: A communist guerrilla victory.

CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah, I—

ALLAN NAIRN: Ninety-five percent of these victims are civilians—peasant organizers, human rights leaders—

CHARLIE ROSE: I am happy to invite both of you—

ALLAN NAIRN: —priests—assassinated by the U.S.-backed Guatemalan army. Let’s look at reality here. In reality, we’re not talking about two murders, one colonel. We’re talking about more than 100,000 murders, an entire army, many of its top officers employees of the U.S. government. We’re talking about crimes, and we’re also talking about criminals, not just people like the Guatemalan colonels, but also the U.S. agents who have been working with them and the higher-level U.S. officials. I mean, I think you have to be—you have to apply uniform standards. President Bush once talked about putting Saddam Hussein on trial for crimes against humanity, Nuremberg-style tribunal. I think that’s a good idea. But if you’re serious, you have to be even-handed. If we look at a case like this, I think we have to talk—start talking about putting Guatemalan and U.S. officials on trial. I think someone like Mr. Abrams would be a fit—a subject for such a Nuremberg-style inquiry. But I agree with Mr. Abrams that Democrats would have to be in the dock with him. The Congress has been in on this. The Congress approved the sale of 16,000 M-16s to Guatemala. In ’87 and ’88—

CHARLIE ROSE: Alright, but hold on one second. I just—before—because the—

ALLAN NAIRN: They voted more military aid than the Republicans asked for.

CHARLIE ROSE: Again, I invite you and Elliott Abrams back to discuss what he did. But right now, you—

ELLIOTT ABRAMS: No, thanks, Charlie, but I won’t accept—

otter

STAYSEA wrote:

the best and worst US presidents weren't this idolized...


Che Guevara is an icon, but those who idolize him idolize a lie. Che was not a “freedom fighter.” He was a killer who enjoyed killing. He was, after all, Fidel Castro’s executioner.




He proudly claimed the deaths of 1400 boys, his own hands!

Tell us where you live again Byrnzie? Did you vote this year?

Did you forget you live in the United States?
Clinton was a decent president, can most of us agree?

thank you for posting this about Guevara.

At the end of Clinton's term...I swear to God...the first thing I thought and said was "he kept us out of war for 8 years"

JimmyV

otter wrote:

STAYSEA wrote:

the best and worst US presidents weren't this idolized...


Che Guevara is an icon, but those who idolize him idolize a lie. Che was not a “freedom fighter.” He was a killer who enjoyed killing. He was, after all, Fidel Castro’s executioner.




He proudly claimed the deaths of 1400 boys, his own hands!

Tell us where you live again Byrnzie? Did you vote this year?

Did you forget you live in the United States?
Clinton was a decent president, can most of us agree?

thank you for posting this about Guevara.

At the end of Clinton's term...I swear to God...the first thing I thought and said was "he kept us out of war for 8 years"

I think enough time has past that most of us can agree that Clinton was a good/decent president. I don't think we could have achieved that same consensus the day he left office.

Godfather.

The number of people in California who have exhausted all available unemployment insurance benefits has surpassed 1 million. - http://UTSanDiego.com - http://utsd.us/19zKU68


Godfather.

Jason P

josevolution

Can we gauge this by lives lost can anyone here say IRAQ 4thousand american lives wasted as if we had a surpluss of citizens to be discarded like trash if i go on this BUSH is the worst ever by a country mile ...And how many IRAQI'S DEAD .......and not one weapon of mass destruction found none ....

STAYSEA

josevolution wrote:

Can we gauge this by lives lost can anyone here say IRAQ 4thousand american lives wasted as if we had a surpluss of citizens to be discarded like trash if i go on this BUSH is the worst ever by a country mile ...And how many IRAQI'S DEAD .......and not one weapon of mass destruction found none ....

I really like the Bush Family.

AND I voted for them every time. I still think Clinton was better for the time. What about Garfield ? What did he do? Dwight D. Eisenhower was neato, and so were both Roosevelt's.

Are you letting the media decide your mind? Do you feel like it's "un hip" to think for yourself?

J.F.K. spent a lot of his time cheating on Jakie. How many Kennedy's were corrupt?

I guess Nixon was the Best? This is all opinion. Saddam did worse to that country than the Bush family. Ask anyone from Iraq. PLEASE. I've posted this before, and I don't care to repeat it. Uday .. Saddam Jr. was sniped without any press. He was so EVIL. I compare him to Pablo Escobar . So evil. The Husseins all had body doubles, and Uday's "Twin" was forced to act like him. He was disgusted, and scared everyday.




Yahia was born into a Kurdish family. During his education, Latif claimed to have been classmates with Uday Hussein, and that classmates remarked on his resemblance to Uday.[1]

Yahia says he became Uday's double after the Iran–Iraq War had begun. Yahia's unit received a dispatch ordering Yahia (then 23) to report to the presidential palace. Upon his arrival, Yahia was informed that he was to become Uday's fedai (body double) to make public appearances as Uday whenever a dangerous situation was expected. Yahia initially refused to take the job and was subsequently put in solitary confinement. After his imprisonment, Latif agreed to be Uday's double. He was trained for six months to imitate Uday's speech patterns and manner. He underwent surgery and dental work to make their appearances more similar. During the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, Yahia was used as a morale booster for the Iraqi troops and sent to Basra posing as Uday to meet with troops.

His relationship with Uday later deteriorated. According to Yahia, the final straw came when a woman Uday was interested in paid more attention to Yahia. Uday shot at him, grazing him. Yahia fled north, where he was imprisoned by Kurdish rebels, being mistaken for Uday. When his captors realized he was not Uday, he was released and granted asylum in Austria in 1992. After Yahia was attacked in Austria, he moved to London in 1995.

On 10 March 1997, Yahia threatened a refugee official in Norway, showing up at his office with a can of gasoline, pouring it out over the floor, and threatening to light it. The official managed to calm Yahia, who fled after half an hour. He was subsequently arrested by the police. He was released before his trial and left the country, first to Germany, then to Ireland.


I wish I could make this stuff up but I read too many books.

Wiki link?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latif_Yahia


Is this thread a Bush bashing or is it actually headed someplace? I'll pull out Sister Sarah if I need too....

Thirty Bills Unpaid

STAYSEA wrote:

I really like the Bush Family.

AND I voted for them every time.

Way to go.

Byrnzie

STAYSEA wrote:

Saddam did worse to that country than the Bush family. Ask anyone from Iraq. PLEASE.

O.k:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraqis-say ... ssein/4320

'Many adults in Iraq believe the coalition effort has been negative, according to a poll by the Iraq Centre for Research and Strategic Studies and the Gulf Research Center. 90 per cent of respondents think the situation in their country was better before the U.S.-led invasion.'

Smellyman

Byrnzie wrote:

STAYSEA wrote:

Saddam did worse to that country than the Bush family. Ask anyone from Iraq. PLEASE.

O.k:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraqis-say ... ssein/4320

'Many adults in Iraq believe the coalition effort has been negative, according to a poll by the Iraq Centre for Research and Strategic Studies and the Gulf Research Center. 90 per cent of respondents think the situation in their country was better before the U.S.-led invasion.'

BAM....

STAYSEA

Byrnzie wrote:

STAYSEA wrote:

Saddam did worse to that country than the Bush family. Ask anyone from Iraq. PLEASE.

O.k:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraqis-say ... ssein/4320

'Many adults in Iraq believe the coalition effort has been negative, according to a poll by the Iraq Centre for Research and Strategic Studies and the Gulf Research Center. 90 per cent of respondents think the situation in their country was better before the U.S.-led invasion.'

90% of statistics are made up.

How many respondents out of how many responded positive to the surveyor?

Bye Burnz... I can't take your one sided stuff anymore. You used to be fun?

:wave:

We should ask Dr. Seuss.



they had fun tearing down his images... just saying?

Byrnzie

STAYSEA wrote:

90% of statistics are made up.

Did you read that on the back of a box of cereal, or on Facebook?

STAYSEA wrote:

How many respondents out of how many responded positive to the surveyor?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraqis-say ... ssein/4320

Polling Data

Do you feel the situation in the country is better today or better before the U.S.-led invasion?

Better today

5%

Better before

90%

Not sure

5%

Source: Iraq Centre for Research and Strategic Studies / Gulf Research Center
Methodology: Face-to-face interviews with 2,000 Iraqi adults in Baghdad, Anbar and Najaf, conducted in late November 2006. Margin of error is 3.1 per cent.

Smellyman

fox, breitbart, beck fans laugh in the face of facts.

STAYSEA

I LOVE BECK!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPfmNxKLDG4

OH yeah



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkCg-3nxT8E

I'm that girl...

Lincoln was good. Stay on topic!

Go Beavers

STAYSEA wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

O.k:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraqis-say ... ssein/4320

'Many adults in Iraq believe the coalition effort has been negative, according to a poll by the Iraq Centre for Research and Strategic Studies and the Gulf Research Center. 90 per cent of respondents think the situation in their country was better before the U.S.-led invasion.'

90% of statistics are made up.

How many respondents out of how many responded positive to the surveyor?

Bye Burnz... I can't take your one sided stuff anymore. You used to be fun?

:wave:

We should ask Dr. Seuss.



they had fun tearing down his images... just saying?

That was staged:
http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jul/03/nation/na-statue3

I think the retroactive justification ("Iraq is better off" "Hussein was evil") for the Iraq war is a way people who voted for Bush try to come to terms with their own guilt for voting for him

JimmyV

STAYSEA wrote:

they had fun tearing down his images... just saying?

No one in that picture looks to be having any fun at all. Not one raised arm, not one person jumping up and down, no one joyfully hugging the person next to them.

STAYSEA

These are Happy Germans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmRPP2WXX0U



This is from a Russian media source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8gO8ojZh4c

My favorite president was

riotgrl

STAYSEA wrote:

These are Happy Germans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmRPP2WXX0U



This is from a Russian media source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8gO8ojZh4c

My favorite president was

Taft is usually considered a mediocre president so just out of curiosity what is it that you like about him? Honest question not meant to be snarky.