more lance armstrong allegations and now charges....
gimmesometruth27
St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
seems lance is under investigation again and could be stripped of his 7 tour de france titles....
there has to be solid evidence or they would not keep investigating him and the us anti doping agency would not have formally issued charges against him.
looking back it seems inconceivable to me that one man can win that race 7 times. it is like the late 90s when people were hitting over 60 home runs for multiple seasons and it has not been done again since. come to find out that all of those baseball players were doping. i would not be surprised at all if armstrong is guilty of doping. many of his teammates were found guilty. he has one testicle, so that alone would alter his levels of testosterone....i dunno, there just seems like there is a lot of evidence against him. i was hoping he would be innocent and that these are just trumped up charges, because i was let down by my former heros mcgwire, and canseco, and clemons... but if they were guilty chances are lance is too...
thoughts?
Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA Makes New Allegations
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/1 ... 94578.html
AUSTIN, Texas — For Lance Armstrong, the doping allegations aren't going away. In fact, they're starting all over again.
The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency has filed formal charges against the seven-time Tour de France winner, threatening to strip him of his victories in the storied cycling race.
Armstrong, who forcefully denied the accusations, could face a lifetime ban from the sport if he is found to have used performance-enhancing drugs. The move by USADA immediately bans him from competing in triathlons, which he turned to after he retired from cycling last year.
Armstrong has been dogged by doping allegations since his first Tour victory in 1999, but had hoped his fight to be viewed as a clean champion was finally won after U.S. federal prosecutors closed a two-year criminal probe in February without bringing any charges. Armstrong has said the investigation took a heavy emotional toll and he was relieved when it ended.
But USADA officials insisted they would continue to pursue their own probe into Armstrong and his former teams and doctors, and notified him of the charges in a 15-page letter on Tuesday. Unlike federal prosecutors, USADA isn't burdened by proving a crime occurred, just that there was use of performance-enhancing drugs.
In its letter, USADA said its investigation included evidence dating back to 1996. It also included the new charge that Armstrong blood samples taken in 2009 and 2010 are "fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions." Armstrong came out of his first retirement to race in the Tour de France those two years.
Armstrong, who was in France while training for a triathlon, issued a statement dismissing the latest allegations "baseless" and "motivated by spite." Even though he last won the Tour seven years ago, the 40-year-old Armstrong remains a popular – if polarizing – figure, partly because of his charity work for cancer patients.
USADA's letter also said the agency was bringing doping charges against Johan Bruyneel, manager of Armstrong's winning teams; team doctors Pedro Celaya and Luis Garcia del Moral; team trainer Pepe Marti, and consulting doctor Michele Ferrari.
The USADA letter, a copy of which was obtained by The Associated Press, accuses Armstrong of using and promoting the use of the blood booster EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone, human growth hormone and anti-inflammatory steroids. The letter doesn't cite specific examples, but says the charges are based on evidence gathered in an investigation of Armstrong's teams, including interviews with witnesses who aren't named.
Cycling's governing body, the International Cycling Union, which collected the 2009 and 2010 samples cited in the USADA letter, said it was not involved in the anti-doping group's investigation.
According to USADA's letter, more than 10 cyclists as well as team employees will testify they either saw Armstrong dope or heard him tell them he used EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone and cortisone from 1996 to 2005. Armstrong won the Tour de France every year from 1999-2005.
During their investigation, federal prosecutors subpoenaed Armstrong supporters and ex-teammates to testify in Los Angeles. One of the most serious accusations came during a "60 Minutes" interview when former teammate Tyler Hamilton said he saw Armstrong use EPO during the 1999 Tour de France and in preparation for the 2000 and 2001 tours.
Early in the criminal investigation, Armstrong attorney's accused USADA of offering cyclists a "sweetheart deal" if they testify or provide evidence against Armstrong.
In a letter to USADA last week, Armstrong attorney Robert Luskin noted that USADA Chief Executive Officer Travis Tygart participated in witness interviews with federal investigator Jeff Novitzky during the criminal probe.
"It is a vendetta, which has nothing to do with learning the truth and everything to do with settling a score and garnering publicity at Lance's expense," Luskin wrote.
In a statement, Tygart said, "USADA only initiates matters supported by the evidence. We do not choose whether or not we do our job based on outside pressures, intimidation or for any reason other than the evidence."
Armstrong has until June 29 to file a written response to the charges. The case could ultimately go before an arbitration panel to consider evidence. The USADA letter said in that case a hearing should be expected by November.
Armstrong, maintained his innocence, saying in his statement: "I have never doped, and, unlike many of my accusers, I have competed as an endurance athlete for 25 years with no spike in performance, passed more than 500 drug tests and never failed one. ...
"Any fair consideration of these allegations has and will continue to vindicate me."
there has to be solid evidence or they would not keep investigating him and the us anti doping agency would not have formally issued charges against him.
looking back it seems inconceivable to me that one man can win that race 7 times. it is like the late 90s when people were hitting over 60 home runs for multiple seasons and it has not been done again since. come to find out that all of those baseball players were doping. i would not be surprised at all if armstrong is guilty of doping. many of his teammates were found guilty. he has one testicle, so that alone would alter his levels of testosterone....i dunno, there just seems like there is a lot of evidence against him. i was hoping he would be innocent and that these are just trumped up charges, because i was let down by my former heros mcgwire, and canseco, and clemons... but if they were guilty chances are lance is too...
thoughts?
Lance Armstrong Doping Charges: USADA Makes New Allegations
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/1 ... 94578.html
AUSTIN, Texas — For Lance Armstrong, the doping allegations aren't going away. In fact, they're starting all over again.
The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency has filed formal charges against the seven-time Tour de France winner, threatening to strip him of his victories in the storied cycling race.
Armstrong, who forcefully denied the accusations, could face a lifetime ban from the sport if he is found to have used performance-enhancing drugs. The move by USADA immediately bans him from competing in triathlons, which he turned to after he retired from cycling last year.
Armstrong has been dogged by doping allegations since his first Tour victory in 1999, but had hoped his fight to be viewed as a clean champion was finally won after U.S. federal prosecutors closed a two-year criminal probe in February without bringing any charges. Armstrong has said the investigation took a heavy emotional toll and he was relieved when it ended.
But USADA officials insisted they would continue to pursue their own probe into Armstrong and his former teams and doctors, and notified him of the charges in a 15-page letter on Tuesday. Unlike federal prosecutors, USADA isn't burdened by proving a crime occurred, just that there was use of performance-enhancing drugs.
In its letter, USADA said its investigation included evidence dating back to 1996. It also included the new charge that Armstrong blood samples taken in 2009 and 2010 are "fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions." Armstrong came out of his first retirement to race in the Tour de France those two years.
Armstrong, who was in France while training for a triathlon, issued a statement dismissing the latest allegations "baseless" and "motivated by spite." Even though he last won the Tour seven years ago, the 40-year-old Armstrong remains a popular – if polarizing – figure, partly because of his charity work for cancer patients.
USADA's letter also said the agency was bringing doping charges against Johan Bruyneel, manager of Armstrong's winning teams; team doctors Pedro Celaya and Luis Garcia del Moral; team trainer Pepe Marti, and consulting doctor Michele Ferrari.
The USADA letter, a copy of which was obtained by The Associated Press, accuses Armstrong of using and promoting the use of the blood booster EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone, human growth hormone and anti-inflammatory steroids. The letter doesn't cite specific examples, but says the charges are based on evidence gathered in an investigation of Armstrong's teams, including interviews with witnesses who aren't named.
Cycling's governing body, the International Cycling Union, which collected the 2009 and 2010 samples cited in the USADA letter, said it was not involved in the anti-doping group's investigation.
According to USADA's letter, more than 10 cyclists as well as team employees will testify they either saw Armstrong dope or heard him tell them he used EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone and cortisone from 1996 to 2005. Armstrong won the Tour de France every year from 1999-2005.
During their investigation, federal prosecutors subpoenaed Armstrong supporters and ex-teammates to testify in Los Angeles. One of the most serious accusations came during a "60 Minutes" interview when former teammate Tyler Hamilton said he saw Armstrong use EPO during the 1999 Tour de France and in preparation for the 2000 and 2001 tours.
Early in the criminal investigation, Armstrong attorney's accused USADA of offering cyclists a "sweetheart deal" if they testify or provide evidence against Armstrong.
In a letter to USADA last week, Armstrong attorney Robert Luskin noted that USADA Chief Executive Officer Travis Tygart participated in witness interviews with federal investigator Jeff Novitzky during the criminal probe.
"It is a vendetta, which has nothing to do with learning the truth and everything to do with settling a score and garnering publicity at Lance's expense," Luskin wrote.
In a statement, Tygart said, "USADA only initiates matters supported by the evidence. We do not choose whether or not we do our job based on outside pressures, intimidation or for any reason other than the evidence."
Armstrong has until June 29 to file a written response to the charges. The case could ultimately go before an arbitration panel to consider evidence. The USADA letter said in that case a hearing should be expected by November.
Armstrong, maintained his innocence, saying in his statement: "I have never doped, and, unlike many of my accusers, I have competed as an endurance athlete for 25 years with no spike in performance, passed more than 500 drug tests and never failed one. ...
"Any fair consideration of these allegations has and will continue to vindicate me."
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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my cousin has testicular cancer right now and his oncologist gave him a signed copy of lance's book. somehow the doctor knows lance, i didn't get that whole part of the story....anyhow my cousin was so inspired by the story 8 months ago and i just talked to him this weekend and he believes firmly that lance is "full of shit".... it is kind of a shame that he is in the middle of the fight of his life and the gift from his doctor that was to serve as motivation and encouragement has left him cynical...
i am sure that being a hero has taken its toll on lance. he was so involved with encouraging and giving hope to others that even if he is guilty he can not come out and confess now.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"With our thoughts we make the world"
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7msb2 ... update_fun
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
the sport is way cleaner now than its ever been ... ryder hesjedal just won the most grueling grand tour (the giro) and it's 99.9% sure he's riding clean because he belongs to a team that is a strong voice in clean cycling where they fired one of their team directors last year because he suggested to a rider to go to a non-sanctioned by the team doctor ... they do testing above and beyond UCI and WADA rules ...
as for lance - i am pretty certain that he doped based on the following reasons:
1. he's NEVER had a bad day ... in winning 7 TDF's - the guy never had a bad day ... if you watch cycling - they all have bad days ... it's just the natural way the body responds to endurance sports ...
2. the witness account is overwhelming ... it's not heresay here ... it's tons of witnesses and his affiliation with doctors and people already convicted of doping infractions - see michael ferrari
3. read up on what the money his livestrong foundation goes to ... yeah - dude has made cancer awareness huge but he also rakes in a lot of d'oh and it's not all going to altruistic purposes
4. he has close ties with the UCI which forever was turning a blind eye to doping ...
5. remember - people like marion jones never failed a drug test either nor carl lewis nor a bunch of american athletes that we now know doped ... do not underestimate the power of money ...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
excerpt:
Rather unfortunately for the UCI they have also faced scrutiny over donations made by Armstrong to their bank accounts. Armstrong made two donations to the UCI during his racing career. The seven-time Tour de France winner signed a personal cheque for $25,000 in 2002 and then his management company Capital Sports and Entertainment made a second payment of $100,000 in 2005.
The UCI in 2010 that the money was used in the fight against doping and in July of that year UCI President Pat McQuaid showed Cyclingnews a photocopy of the invoice of the Sysmex blood testing machine that a large part of Armstrong's $100,000 donation was used to buy. He refused to let us take a photograph of it, keeping it in a file marked 'Confidential'.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Yeah, I did his bike ride 3 times but eventually I got cynical about where the money was going in that charity. It seems not much goes to actual cancer research.
Also, the 2nd time I did it they chucked the good craft beers in the post-race tent and replaced them with Micehlob Ultra. :roll: I just went home and drank some good beer there.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
yeah ... if that ain't a douche move ... what is!?? ...
they actually do not give to cancer research anymore ... they say it's because there are already a lot of grants out there despite funding for testicular cancer being in desperate need of funds ... yet - in all their PR and communications - they allude or refer to their contributions to cancer research ...
I think 'performance enhancement drugs' should be allowed, in whatever sport. Only we should know if they are taking them or not. Just be open about it,
hell no
you basically remove anyone who doesn't want to sacrifice their long term health away from any sport ... and if that sport is related to someone's choice for a job - you basically take away his/her ability to make money ...
we don't need to give in to cheaters ...
cycling is cleaning itself up ... hesjedal won clean and the prohibitive two favourites for the tdf next month are both clean ...
Yep, after all we've been through it's certainly not time to throw in the towel. You can get cheating (at least mostly) out of sports - look at baseball. It's back to what it was like 25 years ago. (Wait, was 1987 the juiced ball year? Ok - 30 years ago)
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
It's not 'cheating' if it's allowed. I say allow it, be open about it. If a player/athlete chooses to juice, good let him/her. If someone chooses not too, fine.
If they are unable to perform 'as well' as a doping athlete, then so be it. I think it's silly to ban substances like these.
But as I said, it should be open. So say companies are able to make a choice in regards to wanting an athlete to endorse their company etc.
(I Gotta bounce, so I'm cutting it here, till I can get back online)
cant wait for this years tour wiggins is on form by the looks of things but i reckon A shlek [hope i spelt that right] will top him ................roll on the 30th love it
yeah ... if there weren't documented affects to one's long term health - i would consider it ok ...
wiggins is going to be tough to beat if he continues to TT like he has and the way the course is set up ...
andy shleck is not in the race this year ... he broke a bone in his pelvis at the Dauphine ...
i would say it's a two-man race ...wiggins and evans this year ...
outside shot:
hesjedal, menchov, sanchez and vanderbruek
aren't the long term affects mainly because people abuse PEDs? I haven't seen many studies on them to begin with, so if you could point me in the direction of some I would love to read them.
I don't know, I think an athlete should be able to do it themselves, but, at the same time, there are so many things that separate athletes in terms of performance enhancing...time, effort, dietitians, strength and conditioning coaches...access to workout equipment and trainers and the list goes on...all of it is so non-uniform, why would PED's be treated any differently. I suppose if they had some sort of uniform code that spelled out the only way an athlete could train it would make sense, but they don't and some get advantages over others...
But athletes don't have to juice in any sport to compete...there are many examples of great athletes who are assumed clean that are very successful at their sports. Anderson Silva is probably the best MMA fighter alive right now, clean as a whistle.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Yes to the first question. (Well it also depends on the type of 'PED' that's taken)
-
and the rest of your post is quite similar to what I was going to reply with, with the exception of the MMA part, I'll YouTube some 'Anderson Silva' vids. I don't know too much about that world.
-
Something else on this subject (well in regards to gaining an unfair advantage), anyone hear about 'Oscar Pristorius'? He's a South African sprinter and a double-amputee. He's aiming to (has) compete/d against 'able' Bodied athletes, but many are saying that he's cheating because of his 'artificial limbs' that he uses to run with. Anyway, it's an interesting story.
An interview/news piece with/about Oscar Pistorius
i fancy Nibali to do well ..ive caught the race the last 4 years but doesnt look like ill do it this year but got sky in the garden this year so happy days ah..back in 2007 when it started in London we went to a place just outside Tonbridge Wells to catch it and painted the roads in white gloss .i thought we had had itwhen the old bill stopped us [we were pissed]but they just laughed at our white hands ..if you google earth and follow the route you can still just make out the old sons we wrote in the road
o to be young
check out the documentary Like Water about Anderson. The guy is amazingly skilled.
I will let you figure out who he is
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
yep. That is why I just think it is pointless. If you bring it above board and allow these substances, it takes away the black market and allows supervised use to be the norm.
Plus, I like the fact that 300 lbs athletes in the NFL can run a .45 40 yard dash and jump out of the gym...it just feels right...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
consider this my anti-american rant for the week ...
WHAT!? so i want to perform at the elite level in my sports and you want me to use PED to do so just cause some arseholes cant play fair?? that is just bullshit. and exactly what message are you sending to all those kids out there... that its ok to use PED to be the best in the world at your sport cause "everyone" is doing it?.. and that it may well be the only way to beat the other athletes??? what a shocking example to set. how about the druggos just fuck off and form their own competition.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHJErrp4eOw
1:38 mark
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
Oh man do I ever remember that, I called it *THe Look*. I hope one day to climb Alpe D'Huez and climb the 21 switchbacks, 8% incline in record time.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)