One clear message from this to all parties: folks know cutting spending is the only way we are getting out of this mess. You cannot spend your way out of recession.
This is actually spin. The clear message from the Wisconsin recall was that the voters of Wisconsin didn't like the idea of a recall in this situation and that it didn't warrant it.
If Walker was recalled, would the clear message have been that the voters of Wisconsin really like recalls?
One clear message from this to all parties: folks know cutting spending is the only way we are getting out of this mess. You cannot spend your way out of recession.
This is actually spin. The clear message from the Wisconsin recall was that the voters of Wisconsin didn't like the idea of a recall in this situation and that it didn't warrant it.
If Walker was recalled, would the clear message have been that the voters of Wisconsin really like recalls?
I would mean that enough felt a recall was appropriate in this situation.
One clear message from this to all parties: folks know cutting spending is the only way we are getting out of this mess. You cannot spend your way out of recession.
This is actually spin. The clear message from the Wisconsin recall was that the voters of Wisconsin didn't like the idea of a recall in this situation and that it didn't warrant it.
Ummm. No. There was 1 thing the recall was about: Reduced Spending by cutting off the Unions. So, you could spin it was an anti-Union vote. But, I think that's digging too deep. At it's very base it was about reduced spending. Now, does a wider audience (The nation) have the same stomach? I hope so.... (And that will be the first meaningful hope this country has seen/heard in 4 years. )
You on the other hand, would like to make up an answer that doesn't change your reality. So, yes. Folks ALL voted b/c they don't like recalls. :roll:
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
This is actually spin. The clear message from the Wisconsin recall was that the voters of Wisconsin didn't like the idea of a recall in this situation and that it didn't warrant it.
Ummm. No. There was 1 thing the recall was about: Reduced Spending by cutting off the Unions. So, you could spin it was an anti-Union vote. But, I think that's digging too deep. At it's very base it was about reduced spending. Now, does a wider audience (The nation) have the same stomach? I hope so.... (And that will be the first meaningful hope this country has seen/heard in 4 years. )
You on the other hand, would like to make up an answer that doesn't change your reality. So, yes. Folks ALL voted b/c they don't like recalls. :roll:
I think you're making up an answer to confirm your reality. Read the polling data referenced earlier in the thread. I didn't say 'all' voted because they did't like the recall, but enough did. Watch in November as Wisconsin goes to Obama. Conservatives want to put their spin on the Wisconsin vote and say it's some statement about spending.
This is actually spin. The clear message from the Wisconsin recall was that the voters of Wisconsin didn't like the idea of a recall in this situation and that it didn't warrant it.
Ummm. No. There was 1 thing the recall was about: Reduced Spending by cutting off the Unions. So, you could spin it was an anti-Union vote. But, I think that's digging too deep. At it's very base it was about reduced spending. Now, does a wider audience (The nation) have the same stomach? I hope so.... (And that will be the first meaningful hope this country has seen/heard in 4 years. )
You on the other hand, would like to make up an answer that doesn't change your reality. So, yes. Folks ALL voted b/c they don't like recalls. :roll:
I think you're making up an answer to confirm your reality. Read the polling data referenced earlier in the thread. I didn't say 'all' voted because they did't like the recall, but enough did. Watch in November as Wisconsin goes to Obama. Conservatives want to put their spin on the Wisconsin vote and say it's some statement about spending.
I never said which way Wisconsin will go in Nov. It's June. So, that point's irrelevant. Sure, 12% or whatever said they voted against the recall....Ummm. Yeah. Those "reason" polls are always so revealing. :roll: The recall occurred in the first place b/c the people asked for it. Then, they voted AGAINST that? Oooohhhhk.....
And regardless of what you think - reducing spending is the way to go. Period. We can raise taxes, lower taxes, freeze taxes.. .And it will all be a drop in the bucket if we don't reduce spending. And public pensions, etc. in Wisconsin seems to be the first litmus test wheteher you want to spin the spin or not.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Ummm. No. There was 1 thing the recall was about: Reduced Spending by cutting off the Unions. So, you could spin it was an anti-Union vote. But, I think that's digging too deep. At it's very base it was about reduced spending. Now, does a wider audience (The nation) have the same stomach? I hope so.... (And that will be the first meaningful hope this country has seen/heard in 4 years. )
You on the other hand, would like to make up an answer that doesn't change your reality. So, yes. Folks ALL voted b/c they don't like recalls. :roll:
I think you're making up an answer to confirm your reality. Read the polling data referenced earlier in the thread. I didn't say 'all' voted because they did't like the recall, but enough did. Watch in November as Wisconsin goes to Obama. Conservatives want to put their spin on the Wisconsin vote and say it's some statement about spending.
I never said which way Wisconsin will go in Nov. It's June. So, that point's irrelevant. Sure, 12% or whatever said they voted against the recall....Ummm. Yeah. Those "reason" polls are always so revealing. :roll: The recall occurred in the first place b/c the people asked for it. Then, they voted AGAINST that? Oooohhhhk.....
And regardless of what you think - reducing spending is the way to go. Period. We can raise taxes, lower taxes, freeze taxes.. .And it will all be a drop in the bucket if we don't reduce spending. And public pensions, etc. in Wisconsin seems to be the first litmus test wheteher you want to spin the spin or not.
You're trying to claim that the Wisconsin vote was a statement about reducing spending, which it wasn't. You're only backing your stance up with spin. I could say the Ohio vote was the first litmus test, not the Wisconsin vote. I could outspin you with the Ohio example.
You're trying to claim that the Wisconsin vote was a statement about reducing spending, which it wasn't. You're only backing your stance up with spin. I could say the Ohio vote was the first litmus test, not the Wisconsin vote. I could outspin you with the Ohio example.
What would have been your response if Walker had lost??? What would have the voters wanted? Or can we only calculate voter thoughts based on a question from an exit poll?
San Jose ... liberal hot-bed city voting on similar measures?
San Diego ... better known as "the whale's vagina" voting on similar measures?
Several pretty liberal cities ... even though no recall, they must have not liked recalls either, right?
You're trying to claim that the Wisconsin vote was a statement about reducing spending, which it wasn't. You're only backing your stance up with spin. I could say the Ohio vote was the first litmus test, not the Wisconsin vote. I could outspin you with the Ohio example.
What would have been your response if Walker had lost??? What would have the voters wanted? Or can we only calculate voter thoughts based on a question from an exit poll?
San Jose ... liberal hot-bed city voting on similar measures?
San Diego ... better known as "the whale's vagina" voting on similar measures?
Several pretty liberal cities ... even though no recall, they must have not liked recalls either, right?
Good questions. I would say that people shouldn't draw conclusions without additional data. Without the polling data, people make their conclusion based on how the battle was framed by media before hand. In this case, it was made to be Walker vs. the unions, and since Walker won, people then falsely conclude that it was a declaration against unions. But the polling data suggests otherwise, so that should be incorporated into the dialogue.
There's more information to gather about San Jose and San Diego. Those were essentially votes about budgeting. Voter turnout and attitudes about fiscal responsibility would be good to know. There's also always hardcore conservatives in liberal areas.
If Walker would have lost of course at first I would view it as a liberal victory over a jack-ass conservative. In that case exit polling would have shown that he was recall worthy. I'd be open to hearing the reasons why people thought he was recall worthy. Maybe those wouldn't be liberal in nature.
San Diego ... better known as "the whale's vagina" voting on similar measures?
San Diego had many notorious public pension increases when they had a "surplus" in the 90s. They were long overdue for pension adjustments.
These elections are largely based on local issues and are not really a reflection of the national climate.
If Obama loses Wisconsin it will only be because the electoral map is a sea of red.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila, PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Good questions. I would say that people shouldn't draw conclusions without additional data. Without the polling data, people make their conclusion based on how the battle was framed by media before hand. In this case, it was made to be Walker vs. the unions, and since Walker won, people then falsely conclude that it was a declaration against unions. But the polling data suggests otherwise, so that should be incorporated into the dialogue.
There's more information to gather about San Jose and San Diego. Those were essentially votes about budgeting. Voter turnout and attitudes about fiscal responsibility would be good to know. There's also always hardcore conservatives in liberal areas.
If Walker would have lost of course at first I would view it as a liberal victory over a jack-ass conservative. In that case exit polling would have shown that he was recall worthy. I'd be open to hearing the reasons why people thought he was recall worthy. Maybe those wouldn't be liberal in nature.
I didn't say anything about Unions. As a matter of fact I stated it should not be spun as an anti-union commentary, but solely an anti-spending. Which, is the unspun truth.
It was Walker vs. Spending with the Union twist to get in the way (of interpretation, etc. as you say). But, at it's core, it's clearly an anti-spending vote. Like you said - the media may have framed it as a Union battle, and we should not take those simple terms. Those like you and me are way too smart to fall for that. We know it was truly about spending in general.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Comments
They sure seem to want to prove you wrong and are more than willing to bankrupt us and destroy the dollar doing it.
Wisconsin prints money?
No, but they do right next door in Minnesota. Pretty off topic I guess, but just making a point about the debt crisis.
I would mean that enough felt a recall was appropriate in this situation.
Ummm. No. There was 1 thing the recall was about: Reduced Spending by cutting off the Unions. So, you could spin it was an anti-Union vote. But, I think that's digging too deep. At it's very base it was about reduced spending. Now, does a wider audience (The nation) have the same stomach? I hope so.... (And that will be the first meaningful hope this country has seen/heard in 4 years.
You on the other hand, would like to make up an answer that doesn't change your reality. So, yes. Folks ALL voted b/c they don't like recalls. :roll:
I think you're making up an answer to confirm your reality. Read the polling data referenced earlier in the thread. I didn't say 'all' voted because they did't like the recall, but enough did. Watch in November as Wisconsin goes to Obama. Conservatives want to put their spin on the Wisconsin vote and say it's some statement about spending.
And regardless of what you think - reducing spending is the way to go. Period. We can raise taxes, lower taxes, freeze taxes.. .And it will all be a drop in the bucket if we don't reduce spending. And public pensions, etc. in Wisconsin seems to be the first litmus test wheteher you want to spin the spin or not.
You're trying to claim that the Wisconsin vote was a statement about reducing spending, which it wasn't. You're only backing your stance up with spin. I could say the Ohio vote was the first litmus test, not the Wisconsin vote. I could outspin you with the Ohio example.
San Jose ... liberal hot-bed city voting on similar measures?
San Diego ... better known as "the whale's vagina" voting on similar measures?
Several pretty liberal cities ... even though no recall, they must have not liked recalls either, right?
Good questions. I would say that people shouldn't draw conclusions without additional data. Without the polling data, people make their conclusion based on how the battle was framed by media before hand. In this case, it was made to be Walker vs. the unions, and since Walker won, people then falsely conclude that it was a declaration against unions. But the polling data suggests otherwise, so that should be incorporated into the dialogue.
There's more information to gather about San Jose and San Diego. Those were essentially votes about budgeting. Voter turnout and attitudes about fiscal responsibility would be good to know. There's also always hardcore conservatives in liberal areas.
If Walker would have lost of course at first I would view it as a liberal victory over a jack-ass conservative. In that case exit polling would have shown that he was recall worthy. I'd be open to hearing the reasons why people thought he was recall worthy. Maybe those wouldn't be liberal in nature.
San Diego had many notorious public pension increases when they had a "surplus" in the 90s. They were long overdue for pension adjustments.
These elections are largely based on local issues and are not really a reflection of the national climate.
If Obama loses Wisconsin it will only be because the electoral map is a sea of red.
Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I didn't say anything about Unions. As a matter of fact I stated it should not be spun as an anti-union commentary, but solely an anti-spending. Which, is the unspun truth.
It was Walker vs. Spending with the Union twist to get in the way (of interpretation, etc. as you say). But, at it's core, it's clearly an anti-spending vote. Like you said - the media may have framed it as a Union battle, and we should not take those simple terms. Those like you and me are way too smart to fall for that. We know it was truly about spending in general.