oil canada vs' the great bear rainforest

chadwick

the native indians should be able to put up roadblocks on waterways and on land. it is theirs to live peacefully on and not in ruin from pollution.

polaris_x

chadwick wrote:

get him out of office in a quick hurry. when can you people vote his ass out?

not for another 3 years ... he got his majority last year which up until then has prevented him from unleashing his true agenda ... now that he has it - he has pretty much shat on democracy and accountability ... and just like some republicans in the US ... many that voted for him turn a blind eye ... he just pushed forth a budget that not only details spending but includes a bunch of provisions to gut environmental standards and processes ... it's 425 pages and not only did he do that - he limited debate on the topic to 1 week ... both acts unprecedented and really an afront to parliamentary democracy ...

as it relates to oil ... pretty much the entire province of alberta votes conservative short of one or two hippie ridings ... no other province has that kind of voting pattern ...

lukin2006

I can't speak for what the environment is like in all of Canada, but here in Southern Ontario it is the shits...over populated, congested, the beaches are often closed, the 401 from Windsor to New York State is a rolling warehouse for American Truckers using it as short cut to get from the mid west to the US eastern side...to my knowledge we receive no compensation for that whatsoever. To put it bluntly...most of Southern Ontario sucks :fp:.

lukin2006

We got a national park near us (point pelee), went there last summer for a day it was like the parking lot of wal mart...discusting...We got a closed high school near us right in the middle of a neibourhood...been closed for a good number of years...the building and property are just sitting becoming eyes sores...instead of the school board seeing if the town would interested in the property for free so they could turn into a park it just sits there with a for sale sign.

I could go on and on...how bout' the hunters in Ontario who shoot coyotes for no other reason than they are supposed to be nuisance, or baiting for deer and bears...yeah real hunters.

Sorry Canada are not that friendly to the evironment...or are Ontario or this Ontario government or municipalities...

brianlux

lukin2006 wrote:

Our Prime Minister doesn't like foreign environmentalist meddling in Canada's affairs...so just leave alone :P.

The environment does not recognize political boundaries. It's all the same planet.

brianlux

lukin2006 wrote:

We got a national park near us (point pelee), went there last summer for a day it was like the parking lot of wal mart...discusting...We got a closed high school near us right in the middle of a neibourhood...been closed for a good number of years...the building and property are just sitting becoming eyes sores...instead of the school board seeing if the town would interested in the property for free so they could turn into a park it just sits there with a for sale sign.

I could go on and on...how bout' the hunters in Ontario who shoot coyotes for no other reason than they are supposed to be nuisance, or baiting for deer and bears...yeah real hunters.

Sorry Canada are not that friendly to the evironment...or are Ontario or this Ontario government or municipalities...

Very sad to hear these things. Your Midwest sounds a lot like our Midwest. We need to help people in all parts understand the importance of a healthy environment. It's a world-wide situation, it's all connected.

Drowned Out

lukin2006 wrote:

Our Prime Minister doesn't like foreign environmentalist meddling in Canada's affairs...so just leave alone :P.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... sands.html

Oilsands critics put spotlight on foreign ownership

Anti-oilsands activists hit back at recent criticism of foreign funding of environmental charities Thursday by releasing a report showing oilsands companies are overwhelmingly foreign-owned.

ForestEthics Advocacy — a spin-off of ForestEthics, which is a registered charity — released a shareholder analysis conducted using Bloomberg statistics that found 71 per cent of all companies operating in the Fort McMurray, Alta., area are not Canadian.

Tzeporah Berman, of ForestEthics Advocacy, said the amount of foreign funding to Canadian environmental charities is low, while pointing to high foreign ownership of the oilsands.
Of the remaining companies that are headquartered in Canada, many are largely foreign-owned, the group says. For instance, while Husky Energy is a Calgary-based company, 91 per cent of it is owned by foreigners, most notably Hong Kong billionaire Li Ka-shing.

On top of that, ForestEthics Advocacy (FEA) cited Statistics Canada numbers that showed 118,000 people were employed by oilsands production, accounting for less than one per cent of Canada's working population.

The group also tackled the issue of foreign funds going to Canadian charities.

"The percentage of foreign support, support from other countries, for Canadian environmental charities is very low compared to the philanthropic donations from Canadians," FEA's Tzeporah Berman said on a conference call Thursday.

Berman also defended the use of outside financial help, noting that if it weren't for cross-border support "we wouldn't have stopped acid rain."

The Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers took issue with the way FEA presented its numbers.

"What is important is control and benefits back to Canadians," CAPP spokesperson Travis Davies wrote to CBC News.

He noted that 60 per cent of oilsands companies are Canadian controlled, meaning their boards and employees are largely Canadian and most decisions are made in Canada. Davies added that the companies pay billions of dollars in taxes and royalties to provincial and federal governments.

And while Davies did not dispute FEA's figure on the number of oilsands industry jobs, he said it was unfair to view that "in a vacuum."

The number employed in oilsands production "ignores the over half-a-million Canadians that depend on the oil and gas industry for their employment," argued Davies.

The FEA report comes after weeks of attacks on environmental charities by the Conservative government.

Environment Minister Peter Kent has accused unnamed groups of laundering foreign funds. Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver has called them "foreign-funded radicals." And Conservative Senator Nicole Eaton referred to green charities as "master manipulators who are operating under the guise of charitable organizations in an effort to manipulate our policies for their own gain."

The war of words began in January, the day before the Joint Review Panel was to start hearings into Enbridge's Northern Gateway Pipeline.

The government argument rests on the belief that environmentalists are working against the national interest and threatening Canadian jobs by opposing development of the oilsands. The Conservatives defend foreign oil companies by saying they are investing billions in Canadian infrastructure.

The government has accused environmental charities of abusing their tax-exempt status by engaging in more political advocacy than they are allowed to under the law. Tax laws are now being changed to give the Canada Revenue Agency more powers to investigate charities.

Environmental charities have reacted relatively quickly. ForestEthics spun off an advocacy arm last month so the parent organization would no longer engage in political activity. ForestEthics Advocacy is not a charity.

chadwick

Drowned Out wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Our Prime Minister doesn't like foreign environmentalist meddling in Canada's affairs...so just leave alone :P.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... sands.html

Oilsands critics put spotlight on foreign ownership

Anti-oilsands activists hit back at recent criticism of foreign funding of environmental charities Thursday by releasing a report showing oilsands companies are overwhelmingly foreign-owned.

ForestEthics Advocacy — a spin-off of ForestEthics, which is a registered charity — released a shareholder analysis conducted using Bloomberg statistics that found 71 per cent of all companies operating in the Fort McMurray, Alta., area are not Canadian.

Tzeporah Berman, of ForestEthics Advocacy, said the amount of foreign funding to Canadian environmental charities is low, while pointing to high foreign ownership of the oilsands.
Of the remaining companies that are headquartered in Canada, many are largely foreign-owned, the group says. For instance, while Husky Energy is a Calgary-based company, 91 per cent of it is owned by foreigners, most notably Hong Kong billionaire Li Ka-shing.

On top of that, ForestEthics Advocacy (FEA) cited Statistics Canada numbers that showed 118,000 people were employed by oilsands production, accounting for less than one per cent of Canada's working population.The group also tackled the issue of foreign funds going to Canadian charities.

"The percentage of foreign support, support from other countries, for Canadian environmental charities is very low compared to the philanthropic donations from Canadians," FEA's Tzeporah Berman said on a conference call Thursday.

Berman also defended the use of outside financial help, noting that if it weren't for cross-border support "we wouldn't have stopped acid rain."

The Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers took issue with the way FEA presented its numbers.

"What is important is control and benefits back to Canadians," CAPP spokesperson Travis Davies wrote to CBC News.

He noted that 60 per cent of oilsands companies are Canadian controlled, meaning their boards and employees are largely Canadian and most decisions are made in Canada. Davies added that the companies pay billions of dollars in taxes and royalties to provincial and federal governments.

And while Davies did not dispute FEA's figure on the number of oilsands industry jobs, he said it was unfair to view that "in a vacuum."

The number employed in oilsands production "ignores the over half-a-million Canadians that depend on the oil and gas industry for their employment," argued Davies.

The FEA report comes after weeks of attacks on environmental charities by the Conservative government.

Environment Minister Peter Kent has accused unnamed groups of laundering foreign funds. Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver has called them "foreign-funded radicals." And Conservative Senator Nicole Eaton referred to green charities as "master manipulators who are operating under the guise of charitable organizations in an effort to manipulate our policies for their own gain."

The war of words began in January, the day before the Joint Review Panel was to start hearings into Enbridge's Northern Gateway Pipeline.

The government argument rests on the belief that environmentalists are working against the national interest and threatening Canadian jobs by opposing development of the oilsands. The Conservatives defend foreign oil companies by saying they are investing billions in Canadian infrastructure.

The government has accused environmental charities of abusing their tax-exempt status by engaging in more political advocacy than they are allowed to under the law. Tax laws are now being changed to give the Canada Revenue Agency more powers to investigate charities.

Environmental charities have reacted relatively quickly. ForestEthics spun off an advocacy arm last month so the parent organization would no longer engage in political activity. ForestEthics Advocacy is not a charity.

Drowned Out

lukin2006 wrote:

I can't speak for what the environment is like in all of Canada, but here in Southern Ontario it is the shits...over populated, congested, the beaches are often closed, the 401 from Windsor to New York State is a rolling warehouse for American Truckers using it as short cut to get from the mid west to the US eastern side...to my knowledge we receive no compensation for that whatsoever. To put it bluntly...most of Southern Ontario sucks :fp:.

Ya, I know not much can compare devastation-wise to what is happening in Ft.McMurray, but Southern Ontario is pretty f’n gross in a lot of ways. I moved to Burlington for a couple years in the late 80’s, and remember being so disappointed to learn that no one swims in the lake :( I’ve spent a lot of time along the Trent-Severn since then….I remember a few times, listening to the radio and hearing an air quality warning in TO….then hours later, looking down the lake and seeing what looked like fog rolling in….but it was brown – pure smog. So gross to see that kind of haze floating along those lakes, amongst Ontario’s beautiful hardwoods….

polaris_x

Drowned Out wrote:

Ya, I know not much can compare devastation-wise to what is happening in Ft.McMurray, but Southern Ontario is pretty f’n gross in a lot of ways. I moved to Burlington for a couple years in the late 80’s, and remember being so disappointed to learn that no one swims in the lake :( I’ve spent a lot of time along the Trent-Severn since then….I remember a few times, listening to the radio and hearing an air quality warning in TO….then hours later, looking down the lake and seeing what looked like fog rolling in….but it was brown – pure smog. So gross to see that kind of haze floating along those lakes, amongst Ontario’s beautiful hardwoods….

just as an fyi on this ...

that smog in the 80's all came from ohio ... it's the way the weather patterns are ... when it's smoggy in ontario - it's generally pollution from the midwest ... now that ontario has shut down most of its coal fired plants and manufacturing is abysmal - pollution and smog is down ...

the shut down of manufacturing has also helped with water quality ... if you goto the beaches in toronto - they have maintained blue flag status (international standard), which is the best, for the last few years ... also toronto ranked 2nd according to wwf in greenest cities in canada ...

i'm not saying its perfect here ... but there has to be some perspective too ...

Drowned Out

Glad to hear there's been improvement, in the lake esp. My time spent in the Kawartha's was much more recent - all in the 2000's....wasn't aware that most of the pollution was coming from the South. Always the damn yankees I was aware of the WWF ranking, and the last time i was in TO (09), I was happy to see the hybrid buses, and the turbine downtown....
Looks like your work there is almost done polaris, get yo azz out to AB

lukin2006

Make no mistake about it ontarians contribute plenty to pollution...those millions of cars that pour into the major cities contribute greatly to air pollution. I've see the congestion on the 401 in and around Toronto the 400 headed to Barry and the north. Ontario is becoming a discusting over populated congested POS place to live.

brianlux

polaris_x wrote:

just as an fyi on this ...

that smog in the 80's all came from ohio ... it's the way the weather patterns are ... when it's smoggy in ontario - it's generally pollution from the midwest ...

Good point, polaris_x. This is an excellent example of why I say environment knows no political boundaries.

Here's another example:

(As you can see by the areas I've enlarged, this is not really so much good news as the article's heading might suggest.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/17/scien ... evada.html

"An Upside to China’s Air Pollution: More Snowfall in the Sierra Nevada

A storm of yellow dust darkens the skies above Beijing, an increasingly familiar phenomenon blamed on the disappearance of Asian forests. A week later, in California’s Sierra Nevada mountain range, where annual precipitation levels are expected to decline as the climate changes, a snowstorm delights skiers.

The storms are starkly different and separated by thousands of miles, but scientists have discovered that they are linked.

Researchers from the Scripps Institution of Oceanography and the University of California, San Diego, have discovered that dust storms in Asia could help douse the Sierras with snow, bolstering California’s economy and rejuvenating its environment.

Spring and summer snowmelts in the Sierras provide fresh water for 25 million people, for wildlife and millions of acres of farmland, as well as for hydropower that meets up to 15 percent of the state’s electricity needs.

In experiments that began in 2009, the scientists discovered that dust that glides on high-altitude jet streams from Asia over the Pacific Ocean plays a substantial role in seeding snowflakes that fall over the Sierras.

Industrial pollution, bacteria, heavy metals, dust and other aerosols flow freely from Asia to California. Research suggests that as much as one-third of the airborne lead in the San Francisco Bay Area wafted over from Asia.

Raindrops and snowflakes cannot fall out of a cloud unless there is a floating seed husk, piece of pollen, speck of dust or other aerosol that they can cling to and grow around.

“In order for water to condense out of the water vapor and into a droplet, it has to have a surface to condense on,” said Doug Collins, a chemist at the University of California who is involved with the Sierra studies. “Aerosols provide that surface.”

But different particles have different effects on clouds. Some trigger snow or rain, while others dissolve budding droplets, turning them back into mist and preventing or limiting precipitation.

In early 2009, the researchers studied two similar storms that occurred within a week of each other over the Sierras. The first was relatively dust-free. But the second fell from clouds filled with dust from a storm that had torn through China one week earlier, and it dumped 40 percent more snow than the earlier storm.

To test whether the heavier snowfall was related to the dust, the researchers took to the skies last winter in a twin-engine airplane equipped with sensors that counted dust particles and ice crystals. Ice crystals grow into snowflakes as they fall from the sky.

They found a close relationship between the levels of dust in the atmosphere and the number of ice crystals. “They’re in lockstep,” Mr. Collins said.

The research is part of CalWater, a project that started in 2009 and is intended to improve weather forecasting and modeling.

“There’s a lot of uncertainty in precipitation forecasting,” said Marty Ralph, a research meteorologist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, one of the agencies that sponsored the research. “It’s quite a complicated process.”

chadwick

environmental science and the love of the natural world does make a guy wanna kill; after all trees, clean water to drink, clean air to breathe, and animals cannot protect themselves, therefore it is the right of environmentalists to stick a sword or several up someone's fat ass @ the oil company's board meeting @ 9am.

:evil:

lukin2006

chadwick wrote:

environmental science and the love of the natural world does make a guy wanna kill; after all trees, clean water to drink, clean air to breathe, and animals cannot protect themselves, therefore it is the right of environmentalists to stick a sword or several up someone's fat ass @ the oil company's board meeting @ 9am.

:evil:

While we can all agree that oil companies are a problem....so is a huge percentagae of the people.

chadwick

lukin2006 wrote:

chadwick wrote:

environmental science and the love of the natural world does make a guy wanna kill; after all trees, clean water to drink, clean air to breathe, and animals cannot protect themselves, therefore it is the right of environmentalists to stick a sword or several up someone's fat ass @ the oil company's board meeting @ 9am.

:evil:

While we can all agree that oil companies are a problem....so is a huge percentagae of the people.

true fact, lukin2006

lukin2006

chadwick wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

chadwick wrote:

environmental science and the love of the natural world does make a guy wanna kill; after all trees, clean water to drink, clean air to breathe, and animals cannot protect themselves, therefore it is the right of environmentalists to stick a sword or several up someone's fat ass @ the oil company's board meeting @ 9am.

:evil:

While we can all agree that oil companies are a problem....so is a huge percentagae of the people.

true fact, lukin2006

While I understand the oil sands in Alberta to be a huge environmental problem, is there a solution to getting that oil that make sense environmentally? It pretty clear that we are going to be dependent on oil for a long time to come.

Now as much as the oil companies are to blame...we people are disgusting in our abuse of natural resources.
How many people drive to the corner store? when they could walk? How many of those people that drive into the city for work could use public transit? Why are the governments of North America not investing in high speed rail? I think we people could consume a whole lot less...I often see some of that junk at wal mart and wonders who buys that?

And when I talk about Ontario being disgusting in the south mine point of reference on that is the amount of cars on the road...just terrible...no matter what major city in southern Ontario it's congested.

chadwick

lukin2006 wrote:

While I understand the oil sands in Alberta to be a huge environmental problem, is there a solution to getting that oil that make sense environmentally? It pretty clear that we are going to be dependent on oil for a long time to come.

Now as much as the oil companies are to blame...we people are disgusting in our abuse of natural resources.
How many people drive to the corner store? when they could walk? How many of those people that drive into the city for work could use public transit? Why are the governments of North America not investing in high speed rail? I think we people could consume a whole lot less...I often see some of that junk at wal mart and wonders who buys that?

And when I talk about Ontario being disgusting in the south mine point of reference on that is the amount of cars on the road...just terrible...no matter what major city in southern Ontario it's congested.

"people are the destructive monsters of the earth. in the end the planet will win and we humans will all be gone or only a few handfulls of us will remain. either way the earth win prevail but only after we have fucked shit up bigtime. through this downfall millions or billions of people will die both quickly and slowly. meanwhile a few forests and a handfull of critters will make a go of it." - chad

lukin2006

chadwick wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

While I understand the oil sands in Alberta to be a huge environmental problem, is there a solution to getting that oil that make sense environmentally? It pretty clear that we are going to be dependent on oil for a long time to come.

Now as much as the oil companies are to blame...we people are disgusting in our abuse of natural resources.
How many people drive to the corner store? when they could walk? How many of those people that drive into the city for work could use public transit? Why are the governments of North America not investing in high speed rail? I think we people could consume a whole lot less...I often see some of that junk at wal mart and wonders who buys that?

And when I talk about Ontario being disgusting in the south mine point of reference on that is the amount of cars on the road...just terrible...no matter what major city in southern Ontario it's congested.

people are the destructive monsters of the earth. in the end the planet will win and we humans will all be gone or only a few handfulls of us will remain. either way the earth win prevail but only after we have fucked shit up bigtime. through this downfall millions or billions of people will die both quickly and slowly. meanwhile a few forests and a handfull of critters will make a go of it.

I totally agree.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

While I understand the oil sands in Alberta to be a huge environmental problem, is there a solution to getting that oil that make sense environmentally? It pretty clear that we are going to be dependent on oil for a long time to come.

Now as much as the oil companies are to blame...we people are disgusting in our abuse of natural resources.
How many people drive to the corner store? when they could walk? How many of those people that drive into the city for work could use public transit? Why are the governments of North America not investing in high speed rail? I think we people could consume a whole lot less...I often see some of that junk at wal mart and wonders who buys that?

And when I talk about Ontario being disgusting in the south mine point of reference on that is the amount of cars on the road...just terrible...no matter what major city in southern Ontario it's congested.

no ... we are not dependent on oil ... our dependency is manufactured and fabricated ... the oil sands don't make any sense whatsoever in any sustainability model ... the resources required to extract that oil is absurd ... much of which we pay the oil companies to use ...

big oil is very influential ...

and yeah - high speed rail makes so much sense ... you can thank lobbyists and big oil for some of that blame ...