Tom Gabel of Against Me! transgendered

aspoonfulweighsaton

Wilds wrote:

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

This.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about human rights, but there's nothing more equally lazy and selfish than literally trying to change your gender when you weren't legitimately born with both options.

Selfish and Lazy?

I guess you really summed up all of the motivation behind anyone who wants to find happiness through this medical procedure.

Thanks for clearing it all up.

Anytime!

aspoonfulweighsaton

catefrances wrote:

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

This.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about human rights, but there's nothing more equally lazy and selfish than literally trying to change your gender when you weren't legitimately born with both options.

you do know sex and gender arent the same thing, right?

Just because two words might be defined differently in a dictionary doesn't make them all that different. Your gender is ultimately defined by your sex. If a man "thinks" he should really be a woman, what is he basing that on? Just because someone can afford to slap the face of nature and science doesn't mean they should.

peacefrompaul

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

Just because two words might be defined differently in a dictionary doesn't make them all that different. Your gender is ultimately defined by your sex. If a man "thinks" he should really be a woman, what is he basing that on? Just because someone can afford to slap the face of nature and science doesn't mean they should.

Seems like a personal choice, does it not?

catefrances

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

catefrances wrote:

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

This.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about human rights, but there's nothing more equally lazy and selfish than literally trying to change your gender when you weren't legitimately born with both options.

you do know sex and gender arent the same thing, right?

Just because two words might be defined differently in a dictionary doesn't make them all that different. Your gender is ultimately defined by your sex. If a man "thinks" he should really be a woman, what is he basing that on? Just because someone can afford to slap the face of nature and science doesn't mean they should.

do you have that same stance with couples unable to have children naturally? seems theyve been chosen by nature for whatever reason NOT to be given the ability to procreate yet we slap the face of nature to allow them the means.

Jason P

peacefrompaul

Jason P wrote:

THAT was an episode

aspoonfulweighsaton

catefrances wrote:

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

catefrances wrote:

you do know sex and gender arent the same thing, right?

Just because two words might be defined differently in a dictionary doesn't make them all that different. Your gender is ultimately defined by your sex. If a man "thinks" he should really be a woman, what is he basing that on? Just because someone can afford to slap the face of nature and science doesn't mean they should.

do you have that same stance with couples unable to have children naturally? seems theyve been chosen by nature for whatever reason NOT to be given the ability to procreate yet we slap the face of nature to allow them the means.

By that logic we shouldn't treat cancer patients or anyone else that's sick because of the hand they've been dealt. The distinction is using science to help correct things that SHOULD be working properly, whether it be a reproductive system or an immune system or whatever. Someone who thinks they're trapped in the wrong body has a mental condition that should not be treated with a drastic physical response. If you can't learn to love yourself for who you are then there are way more serious issues to deal with.

samjam

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

catefrances wrote:

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

This.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about human rights, but there's nothing more equally lazy and selfish than literally trying to change your gender when you weren't legitimately born with both options.

you do know sex and gender arent the same thing, right?

Just because two words might be defined differently in a dictionary doesn't make them all that different. Your gender is ultimately defined by your sex. If a man "thinks" he should really be a woman, what is he basing that on? Just because someone can afford to slap the face of nature and science doesn't mean they should.

Sex is biological, while gender is a social construct.

My 2 cents, again: clearly, Laura has been grappling with some really tough issues and has made a decision about what to do in order for her to be happy and live a fulfilling life. I'm positive it wasn't an easy decision nor one that was made overnight. I can understand how people might not personally understand the motivation behind this decision, but the amount of negative responses in this thread kind of shocks me, to be honest.
Also, about pronouns- I don't think using she is wrong at all- if Laura is identifying as a woman from now on, she'd probably want to be referred to as 'she'.

aspoonfulweighsaton

peacefrompaul wrote:

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

Just because two words might be defined differently in a dictionary doesn't make them all that different. Your gender is ultimately defined by your sex. If a man "thinks" he should really be a woman, what is he basing that on? Just because someone can afford to slap the face of nature and science doesn't mean they should.

Seems like a personal choice, does it not?

Well yeah everything is personal choice. Doesn't make it right. People who rob banks and kill people make choices too.

catefrances

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

catefrances wrote:

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

Just because two words might be defined differently in a dictionary doesn't make them all that different. Your gender is ultimately defined by your sex. If a man "thinks" he should really be a woman, what is he basing that on? Just because someone can afford to slap the face of nature and science doesn't mean they should.

do you have that same stance with couples unable to have children naturally? seems theyve been chosen by nature for whatever reason NOT to be given the ability to procreate yet we slap the face of nature to allow them the means.

By that logic we shouldn't treat cancer patients or anyone else that's sick because of the hand they've been dealt. The distinction is using science to help correct things that SHOULD be working properly, whether it be a reproductive system or an immune system or whatever. Someone who thinks they're trapped in the wrong body has a mental condition that should not be treated with a drastic physical response. If you can't learn to love yourself for who you are then there are way more serious issues to deal with.

but for tom he wasnt working properly. something was wrong. he felt it. he knew it. so it needed to be corrected. and it has been. now he as a she gets the chance to be who she feels she truly is. and more power to her for that.

peacefrompaul

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

Just because two words might be defined differently in a dictionary doesn't make them all that different. Your gender is ultimately defined by your sex. If a man "thinks" he should really be a woman, what is he basing that on? Just because someone can afford to slap the face of nature and science doesn't mean they should.

Seems like a personal choice, does it not?

Well yeah everything is personal choice. Doesn't make it right. People who rob banks and kill people make choices too.

Because getting a sex change endangers others, right?

justam

Good God, I can't help but wonder what his band mates think of this!!

Their career is taking off and he shoots them ALL in the foot! :shock: :?

catefrances

justam wrote:

Good God, I can't help but wonder what his band mates think of this!!

Their career is taking off and he shoots them ALL in the foot! :shock: :?

against me have been around a while now and if this loses them fans then how big a fan were they then? im interested to see where they go from here tho.

aspoonfulweighsaton

peacefrompaul wrote:

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

Seems like a personal choice, does it not?

Well yeah everything is personal choice. Doesn't make it right. People who rob banks and kill people make choices too.

Because getting a sex change endangers others, right?

Well of course not. Again, people can and will do what they want. This is just my opinion.

sleeplikeadog

catefrances wrote:

justam wrote:

Good God, I can't help but wonder what his band mates think of this!!

Their career is taking off and he shoots them ALL in the foot! :shock: :?

against me have been around a while now and if this loses them fans then how big a fan were they then? im interested to see where they go from here tho.

I think that it will help their career. Alot of people who didn't know who they were before, know who they are now as this story is everywhere. I predict alot more fights at shows though, as drunken douchebags shoot off their mouth and say, well, douchey things. I would personally punch somebody in the face at a show for yelling something negative to Laura. But that's just me :twisted:

facepollution

catefrances wrote:

you do know sex and gender arent the same thing, right?

I think I understand the point you are making, but I'm not sure how one would go about deciding whether it is their genetic code or social construct that is making them feel a certain way - it could well be one or the other, or a bit of both.

I kind of take issue with the willingness some people have to jump to a biological argument on something so complex. It's as if they think that if they admit that it might not be biologically based, that some how the person is choosing to feel that way, to blame it on nature relinquishes them of any fault. My view is that even if there was no biological basis for transgenderism, a person wouldn't actively choose to feel that way, and clearly they are dealing with a lot of issues, and therefore deserve to be treated with compassion and respect.

I can't help but question the real level of happiness such surgery brings, to put it crudely, is 'the grass always greener on the other side'? And even if someone did regret it do they feign happiness because they fear being ridiculed for what they've done to themself?

Gary Carter

Great great band I've loved for years. This will feel awkward for me as a fan going forward.

eeriepadave

Has she started on hormones yet? Cause this will take probably a year or two to be a complete female. Also while hormones will help with voice she'll have to learn how to make it softer (which shouldn't be too hard since she's a singer). I doubt next time you see them on stage (in Jun.) she will be a complete female. She may just start out by dressing up on stage and whatnot.

Although while I know she's a public figure and all wouldn't you think someone would have noticed beforehand? She had to start dressing up when she was a kid. And when she made it big with Against Me! I wonder when she had the time to dress up then? Has she gone out in public before as a woman? I also wonder if there are any pics of him dressed up before she made the announcement. Every transsexual dresses up when they are a kid/youth.

Indifference71

catefrances wrote:

justam wrote:

Good God, I can't help but wonder what his band mates think of this!!

Their career is taking off and he shoots them ALL in the foot! :shock: :?

against me have been around a while now and if this loses them fans then how big a fan were they then? im interested to see where they go from here tho.

I'm a huge fan, but this whole thing is going to change the sound of the band big time. I love Tom's voice and with all of this treatment he is going to go through with this, the voice will obviously change and never be the same. Just happy I got to see them a few times in concert before this.

eeriepadave

anyone pick up the issue yet? I was at Target earlier today and saw it there. I thought it came out next week. Haven't read it yet though.