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Tom Gabel of Against Me! transgendered

sleeplikeadogsleeplikeadog Posts: 156
edited November 2013 in Other Music
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... r-20120508


Didn't see that coming! I guess I should have known considering he wrote a song that said, "If I could have chosen I would have been born a woman, my mother once told me she would have named me Laura". I just thought he was singing from someone elses perspective.
Good for him, though. The only thing that bothers me is that the hormones will probably affect his voice. Does that mean no more Against Me? They are my favorite band besides PJ
Walking is still honest
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Comments

  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    yeah that is pretty crazy. i never would have guessed. i hope that everyone respects his decision and gives him their support. i am thinking that the punk community will be a little more accepting of him. could you imagine the backlash if a rapper decided to do this? good luck to laura!

    i am thinking that their voice will definitely change. i can't read the article at work so i can not speculate on the future of the band, but i hope that they continue to tour and write. i love those guys too.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    good vibes laura.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • samjamsamjam Posts: 9,283
    So courageous for her to do this. I wish Laura the best!
    "Sometimes you find yourself having to put all your faith in no faith."
    ~not a dude~
    2010: MSGx2
    2012: Made In America
    2013: Pittsburgh, Brooklynx2, Hartford, Baltimore
    2014: Leeds, Milton Keynes, Detroit
    2015: Global Citizen Festival
    2016: Phillyx2, MSGx2, Fenwayx2
    2018: Barcelona, Wrigleyx2
  • peacefrompaulpeacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    Good for Laura! All my best
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,429
    samjam wrote:
    So courageous for her to do this. I wish Laura the best!

    I think it's the opposite of courageous. I think he needs mental help.
  • halvhalv Posts: 701
    All my respect to Tom soon to be Laura for being brave and embracing who she really is. I really hope people in general are understanding and kind to her. So far the comments I have read are mostly supportive. It will be interesting to see how this affects Against Me! and their upcoming new album. She will still be an amazing musician but you would think there would definitely be a voice change. I guess we'll find out.
  • Indifference71Indifference71 Posts: 14,845
    sleeplikeadog wrote:
    http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/tom-gabel-of-against-me-comes-out-as-transgender-20120508


    Didn't see that coming! I guess I should have known considering he wrote a song that said, "If I could have chosen I would have been born a woman, my mother once told me she would have named me Laura". I just thought he was singing from someone elses perspective.
    Good for him, though. The only thing that bothers me is that the hormones will probably affect his voice. Does that mean no more Against Me? They are my favorite band besides PJ


    Wow. That's a shocker.

    Like you said, there will definitely be a voice change. Too bad because I love Gabel's voice.
  • sleeplikeadogsleeplikeadog Posts: 156
    DewieCox wrote:
    samjam wrote:
    So courageous for her to do this. I wish Laura the best!

    I think it's the opposite of courageous. I think he needs mental help.

    I'm gonna pretend like you didn't say that :shock:
    Walking is still honest
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,429
    sleeplikeadog wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    samjam wrote:
    So courageous for her to do this. I wish Laura the best!

    I think it's the opposite of courageous. I think he needs mental help.

    I'm gonna pretend like you didn't say that :shock:

    Please, don't.

    I just don't buy into the fact that he or anyone was born a woman in a man's body or vice versa.
  • quimby20quimby20 Posts: 823
    I'm going to see them on June 2nd, let you know what I think after the show. What a great Band.
  • WildsWilds Posts: 4,329
    DewieCox wrote:
    sleeplikeadog wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    I think it's the opposite of courageous. I think he needs mental help.

    I'm gonna pretend like you didn't say that :shock:

    Please, don't.

    I just don't buy into the fact that he or anyone was born a woman in a man's body or vice versa.

    How can you not understand that?

    There are people born with both organs. They are going to be sexually attracted to whomever they are attracted to.

    If surgery is done (say at a young age) to remove the penis, and the person was oriented to be attracted to woman, then that person will probably have wished to become a man.

    This is not some type of high physics. It's a fact of being born oriented however you are oriented.

    :fp:



    As for Tom Gable, may he find as much happiness as possible as he becomes Laura.

    Good for her. She must be a very strong person to do this in the face of so much ignorance in this world.

    Bravo.
  • sleeplikeadogsleeplikeadog Posts: 156
    Please, don't.

    I just don't buy into the fact that he or anyone was born a woman in a man's body or vice versa.[/quote]

    You are entitled to your opinion, and I don't have to like it :D ......and vice versa.
    Walking is still honest
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,429
    Wilds wrote:
    How can you not understand that?

    There are people born with both organs. They are going to be sexually attracted to whomever they are attracted to.

    If surgery is done (say at a young age) to remove the penis, and the person was oriented to be attracted to woman, then that person will probably have wished to become a man.

    This is not some type of high physics. It's a fact of being born oriented however you are oriented.

    :fp:

    Is that what happened here? Was he born with both sets of genitalia and his parents or doctors or whoever makes the call "guessed" wrong? Doesn't seem that way from the stuff I've read.

    On one hand I can respect the level of bravery it took to come to his decision, but that's really where it ends. I think it's become far too easy in general for people to do these drastic life changing surgeries. There's gotta be a better way.

    Nobody's life is perfect, but there are surely ways to maximize fulfillment without completely altering the hand your dealt.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    DewieCox wrote:
    Wilds wrote:
    How can you not understand that?

    There are people born with both organs. They are going to be sexually attracted to whomever they are attracted to.

    If surgery is done (say at a young age) to remove the penis, and the person was oriented to be attracted to woman, then that person will probably have wished to become a man.

    This is not some type of high physics. It's a fact of being born oriented however you are oriented.

    :fp:

    Is that what happened here? Was he born with both sets of genitalia and his parents or doctors or whoever makes the call "guessed" wrong? Doesn't seem that way from the stuff I've read.

    On one hand I can respect the level of bravery it took to come to his decision, but that's really where it ends. I think it's become far too easy in general for people to do these drastic life changing surgeries. There's gotta be a better way.

    Nobody's life is perfect, but there are surely ways to maximize fulfillment without completely altering the hand your dealt.

    so you want laura to settle for being tom even if shes miserable and doesnt feel that tom is who shes suppose to be? you basically want her to live a lie cause you have aproblem with it? bit selfish dont you think?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • mysticweedmysticweed Posts: 3,710
    Rock On SISTER
    fuck 'em if they can't take a joke

    "what a long, strange trip it's been"
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,429
    catefrances wrote:
    so you want laura to settle for being tom even if shes miserable and doesnt feel that tom is who shes suppose to be? you basically want her to live a lie cause you have aproblem with it? bit selfish dont you think?

    No, don't settle for being Tom. Be the best fucking Tom they can be. I don't want anybody to live a lie, but to counter your point, I think it's as much of a lie for him to get surgery to become a woman.

    I fail to see how my opinion on this is selfish. I'm all for everybody being happy, I just wonder if there is a better more natural way.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    DewieCox wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    so you want laura to settle for being tom even if shes miserable and doesnt feel that tom is who shes suppose to be? you basically want her to live a lie cause you have aproblem with it? bit selfish dont you think?

    No, don't settle for being Tom. Be the best fucking Tom they can be. I don't want anybody to live a lie, but to counter your point, I think it's as much of a lie for him to get surgery to become a woman.

    I fail to see how my opinion on this is selfish. I'm all for everybody being happy, I just wonder if there is a better more natural way.


    i think tom was already the best tom he could be but in the end he decided tom wasnt who he was... he was a she and she is laura.

    and you dont see being laura as being the natural way for tom? cause you know i dont think tom woke up one day and thought i think i want to be a girl now.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • WildsWilds Posts: 4,329
    DewieCox wrote:
    Wilds wrote:
    How can you not understand that?

    There are people born with both organs. They are going to be sexually attracted to whomever they are attracted to.

    If surgery is done (say at a young age) to remove the penis, and the person was oriented to be attracted to woman, then that person will probably have wished to become a man.

    This is not some type of high physics. It's a fact of being born oriented however you are oriented.

    :fp:

    Is that what happened here? Was he born with both sets of genitalia and his parents or doctors or whoever makes the call "guessed" wrong? Doesn't seem that way from the stuff I've read.

    On one hand I can respect the level of bravery it took to come to his decision, but that's really where it ends. I think it's become far too easy in general for people to do these drastic life changing surgeries. There's gotta be a better way.

    Nobody's life is perfect, but there are surely ways to maximize fulfillment without completely altering the hand your dealt.


    I'm not saying that is what happened here.

    I'm trying to make a simple example as to not confuse anyone.


    If you woke up tomorrow and found out that your body was transformed from a man to a woman, would you automatically start to be attracted to men.

    Of course not.

    You would feel the exact same way as you do now, except your 'parts' would not match your feelings.

    I bet it would take you about 30 seconds before deciding that you want to change back.


    And she is dealing with it. The way she chooses. Why is your version of how someone should deal the correct one?


    :nono:
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    Wilds wrote:
    I'm not saying that is what happened here.

    I'm trying to make a simple example as to not confuse anyone.

    If you woke up tomorrow and found out that your body was transformed from a man to a woman, would you automatically start to be attracted to men.

    Of course not.

    You would feel the exact same way as you do now, except your 'parts' would not match your feelings.

    I bet it would take you about 30 seconds before deciding that you want to change back.

    And she is dealing with it. The way she chooses. Why is your version of how someone should deal the correct one? :nono:

    I'd throw that back at you and say why is yours correct?

    Formation of identity is a very gray area, there is no factual evidence to say that it is ALL biological, nor is there evidence to say it is ALL nurture/environment.

    I read something a while back where a guy had surgery to make him a woman, and after some time of living that way decided he wanted to change back - you can imagine the difficulties! A lot of transgendered people (particularly men changing to women) often suffer because society doesn't accept their new identity - all the surgery in the world won't make some men look like women, meaning they swap one set of problems for another.

    I'm not about to judge the guy, I'm sure he must be suffering with a lot of issues, but on the other hand I don't believe that surgery is the only way for such a person to find happiness.
  • sleeplikeadogsleeplikeadog Posts: 156
    I don't see why it bothers anyone, or why anyone who doesn't have anything nice or positive to say would say anything at all.
    Walking is still honest
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    sleeplikeadog wrote:
    I don't see why it bothers anyone, or why anyone who doesn't have anything nice or positive to say would say anything at all.

    It doesn't bother me, anyone interested in psychology would find this interesting. Conversely, I have no interest in toeing the politically correct line on such a complex issue. Like I said, I'm not judging the guy, but there is no evidence to suggest that surgery is the one and only solution.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    facepollution wrote:
    sleeplikeadog wrote:
    I don't see why it bothers anyone, or why anyone who doesn't have anything nice or positive to say would say anything at all.

    It doesn't bother me, anyone interested in psychology would find this interesting. Conversely, I have no interest in toeing the politically correct line on such a complex issue. Like I said, I'm not judging the guy, but there is no evidence to suggest that surgery is the one and only solution.

    youre right but in this case it seems to be. and the ultimate judge of that is and should rightly be the person themselves. as i said earlier i dont think tom woke up one day and said hmmm i think i want to be a girl please cut off my penis and give me girl boobies.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    catefrances wrote:
    youre right but in this case it seems to be. and the ultimate judge of that is and should rightly be the person themselves. as i said earlier i dont think tom woke up one day and said hmmm i think i want to be a girl please cut off my penis and give me girl boobies.

    But then in the case I talked about the guy changed his mind AFTER he had the surgery. I guess happiness isn't always tangible.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    facepollution wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    youre right but in this case it seems to be. and the ultimate judge of that is and should rightly be the person themselves. as i said earlier i dont think tom woke up one day and said hmmm i think i want to be a girl please cut off my penis and give me girl boobies.

    But then in the case I talked about the guy changed his mind AFTER he had the surgery. I guess happiness isn't always tangible.

    oh my do you think people are individuals with their own independent thoughts and hangups? ;) :P 8-)

    just cause your example person ended up regretting their decision( and i think they did so cause the support wasnt there) doesnt mean laura will want to revert to being tom in the future... or regret her decision. we just dont know and i think we should support a persons decision, especially when its as difficult a one as this appears to be.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    Having your twigs and berries cut off is punk as punk gets.

    Does someone have to go through extensive psychoanalysis before doing this or can you just call a specialist and set up a date?
  • WildsWilds Posts: 4,329
    facepollution wrote:
    Wilds wrote:
    I'm not saying that is what happened here.

    I'm trying to make a simple example as to not confuse anyone.

    If you woke up tomorrow and found out that your body was transformed from a man to a woman, would you automatically start to be attracted to men.

    Of course not.

    You would feel the exact same way as you do now, except your 'parts' would not match your feelings.

    I bet it would take you about 30 seconds before deciding that you want to change back.

    And she is dealing with it. The way she chooses. Why is your version of how someone should deal the correct one? :nono:

    I'd throw that back at you and say why is yours correct?

    Formation of identity is a very gray area, there is no factual evidence to say that it is ALL biological, nor is there evidence to say it is ALL nurture/environment.

    I read something a while back where a guy had surgery to make him a woman, and after some time of living that way decided he wanted to change back - you can imagine the difficulties! A lot of transgendered people (particularly men changing to women) often suffer because society doesn't accept their new identity - all the surgery in the world won't make some men look like women, meaning they swap one set of problems for another.

    I'm not about to judge the guy, I'm sure he must be suffering with a lot of issues, but on the other hand I don't believe that surgery is the only way for such a person to find happiness.


    I'm not saying my way is the best way. In fact I don't have a way and never suggested one.

    But the person I'm addressing is criticizing Tom/Laura saying she should get mental help and that she is doing the wrong thing.

    He also said that Tom/Laura is acting like a coward. (The opposite of courageous). That is what I'm challenging.

    His belief is stated that no person who is born with a man's body ever should feel like they should have been born a woman and visa versa.

    These are direct statements.

    That is what I'm challenging.

    I think those statements are rude, ignorant, and probably influenced by some ulterior point of view. (just my guess on that one).


    I'm basically calling out a member who IS judging. I take offense to it, and feel he is wrong.
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    catefrances wrote:
    oh my do you think people are individuals with their own independent thoughts and hangups? ;) :P 8-)

    Well I'm sure the guy in my example probably felt '100%' sure that's what he wanted, my point is that if you change your mind, which we as humans all do, it's very difficult to go back.
    catefrances wrote:
    just cause your example person ended up regretting their decision( and i think they did so cause the support wasnt there) doesnt mean laura will want to revert to being tom in the future... or regret her decision. we just dont know and i think we should support a persons decision, especially when its as difficult a one as this appears to be.

    I'm not sure how you would know that they didn't receive the support.

    For what it's worth, I think personal identity is an extremely complex subject, and to blindly say that's how somebody is born - the end, is just wrong.
    Wilds wrote:
    I'm not saying my way is the best way. In fact I don't have a way and never suggested one.

    But the person I'm addressing is criticizing Tom/Laura saying she should get mental help and that she is doing the wrong thing.

    He also said that Tom/Laura is acting like a coward. (The opposite of courageous). That is what I'm challenging.

    His belief is stated that no person who is born with a man's body ever should feel like they should have been born a woman and visa versa.

    These are direct statements.

    That is what I'm challenging.

    I think those statements are rude, ignorant, and probably influenced by some ulterior point of view. (just my guess on that one).


    I'm basically calling out a member who IS judging. I take offense to it, and feel he is wrong.

    I disagree with the blunt way he shared his opinions, but I don't disagree that the subject should be debated. Yes it's a personal thing and ultimately the individual's decision, but that's not to say people don't wrongly come to that decision, and it's a heavy price to pay if they do.
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave Posts: 42,066
    he i mean she looks good as a woman. Good for him i mean her :lol: In all seriousness I hope all goes well with Tom/Laura. Never a really a fan of their music but if it makes him happy i say go for it. :D:clap:

    against-me-tom-gabel-transgender__oPt.jpg

    edit: i was thinking of Panic at the Disco :lol: :oops: I do like against me. Thrash Unreal is a great song. Wonder what her bandmates think of it and is she gonna continue with them?

    double edit: I just noticed they are going on tour end of may till end of jun. Wonder if the tour is still on?

    triple edit: they are opening up for The Cult
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  • youngsteryoungster Posts: 6,576
    Lots of support for this which is all good I guess. Just a question for the ladies:

    When does this become official for you? What I mean is, he just announced it and everyone is like "you go girl" and "yeah sister". So a guy doesn't need surgery first to be accepted as a woman? Like if a dude decides on Friday after work he wants to be a chick and have transgender surgery, goes out for celebratory drinks that same night as himself, can he use the girls room? I'm pretty sure it isn't instant acceptance into womanhood, right?
    He who forgets will be destined to remember.

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  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 9,475
    Kudos to Brooklyn Vegan for nodding at what Rolling Stone missed, which was Keith Caputo's recent transition:

    http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2 ... _mina.html

    I was far more familiar with Keith's music than Tom's, but in both cases I found it to be both jarring and fascinating. As it has in this thread, this topic will always spark a debate. I've seen a couple specials on both men and women who have transitioned, and....ehhhhhhh....you wish the quality-of-life success rate was a little higher. Mina (Keith) seems to have adjusted fine and one would certainly hope the same for Tom. Hopefully they've both psychologically dotted every i and crossed every t, because it's a heavy decision.
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