Patriotism is curable

know1

GetALife wrote:

know1 wrote:

I think Patriotism is curable. I've been cured of it. Of course, I didn't have a very bad case.

Now that makes me curious. You wanna tell about your story?

No story to tell. Through the normal course of growing up/old and pondering and learning about the world around me, I've decided that blind (or even strong) loyalty to a country or geographic territory just doesn't make sense.

I'm quite open to packing my bags and heading for greener pastures if I decide the country I'm living in isn't right for me anymore for whatever reason - foreign policy, over zealous taxation, etc.

unsung

GetALife wrote:

unsung wrote:

Aren't you all confusing patriotism with jingoism?

You mean the sports of Republicans?

Yawn. Generalize much?

I suppose all democrats are communists too?

gimmesometruth27

know1 wrote:

I think Patriotism is curable. I've been cured of it. Of course, I didn't have a very bad case.

me too. i am not a patriot in the rah rah rah way.

i think expecting great things from your country, holding it to very high standards and holding your own country accountble for it's shortcomings is very patriotic.

GetALife

unsung wrote:

GetALife wrote:

unsung wrote:

Aren't you all confusing patriotism with jingoism?

You mean the sports of Republicans?

Yawn. Generalize much?

I suppose all democrats are communists too?

IF so, the people would have a REAL alternative!

markin ball

GetALife wrote:

CH156378 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4iIt0Ino0w

If Mike did that in a PJ show I attend...I think I'd walk away.

Why?

GetALife

markin ball wrote:

GetALife wrote:

CH156378 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4iIt0Ino0w

If Mike did that in a PJ show I attend...I think I'd walk away.

Why?

I was being a little provocative - I am a PJ fan and I certainly would attend a whole show. - But national anthems disgust me (as I described earlier in this thread), that's what I wanted to express. I didn't ask Mr. "CH" to post that thing here.

brianlux

GetALife wrote:

I was being a little provocative - I am a PJ fan and I certainly would attend a whole show. - But national anthems disgust me (as I described earlier in this thread), that's what I wanted to express.

It was suggested once that Albert Ayler's "Ghosts" (not to be confused with a similar song title) be made the national anthem.. I would go along with that.

GetALife

brianlux wrote:

GetALife wrote:

I was being a little provocative - I am a PJ fan and I certainly would attend a whole show. - But national anthems disgust me (as I described earlier in this thread), that's what I wanted to express.

It was suggested once that Albert Ayler's "Ghosts" (not to be confused with a similar song title) be made the national anthem.. I would go along with that.

I like that kind of music

Godfather.

Patriotism is curable.....yes it is..you may leave any time you wish and never have to deal with it again,
if this country's freedoms and benifits don't suit you you can find another country that better suits your needs and I'm sure no patriotic American would mind.

Godfather.

know1

Godfather. wrote:

Patriotism is curable.....yes it is..you may leave any time you wish and never have to deal with it again,
if this country's freedoms and benifits don't suit you you can find another country that better suits your needs and I'm sure no patriotic American would mind.

Godfather.

+1

GetALife

know1 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Patriotism is curable.....yes it is..you may leave any time you wish and never have to deal with it again,
if this country's freedoms and benifits don't suit you you can find another country that better suits your needs and I'm sure no patriotic American would mind.

Godfather.

+1

I'd agree with you if we had another conversation. Maybe you misunderstood the topic of this thread. It's not about disagreeing with the (politics, culture or whatsoever of the) country you're living in or picking on US patriotism (since I wasn't born in the US nor do I live there). It is about patriotism in general as - when saying that it's curable - a disease...that has spread worldwide since...yeah, since when? ... Maybe I call it I(S)DS - Identity (and self-confidence) Deficiency Syndrome. At least, patriotism is a symptom of that.

javis el errante

GetALife wrote:

javis, you made my evening! ... I had a long and tiring day, first day at work with heat and that got me hooked, watched (more: listened) a few more videos of George Carlin - he is great!

CH, well, I know what you mean...and javis points out that actually I'd never get to hear that unless I visit an US show (which I'd like to...more: a whole tour! ) ... well, I don't know why you posted the video here...you must have had an intention to comment on the topic here with that. I- like the melody of this tune. I like Mike's playing (in general) and him honoring Hendrix's rendition. I don't like what the national anthems means and that makes the music kinda ugly for me. It is my problem, ok?

glad your evening was made, sorry for the delay, I have lots of Carlin videos prepared to be watched, I can PM you some if you want...

I don't have much on the subject to add on the thread, but the idea of "patriotism" and the idea of "home" are rambling on my mind, kind of they are alike, but not the same, and I can't make a clear-cut difference for the time being...

Hugh Freaking Dillon

I had an interesting discussion with a co worker the other day. He's big into WWE, and I used to watch, so we sometimes chat about stuff. It turns out my hometown hero Chris Jericho landed himself in some pretty hot water when he was in a match in Brazil with CM Punk, and CM Punk had the Brazilian flag with him, and he tossed it at Jericho, who proceeded to throw it to the ground, stomp on it, and then kick it out to the crowd. THIS WAS NOT A STORYLINE PLOT. The cops that were there for crowd control actually went into the ring, told Jericho that disrespecting the flag was punishable by incarceration, but they'd let him go if he apologized to the crowd. Jericho did so, not knowing that this was against the law, he was just trying to rile the crowd up.

WWE suspended him indefinitely, which turned out to be only 30 days.

So we were talking about this incident. He says to me "that's not cool, you don't disrespect someone's flag". I thought "well, it's entertainment, not sport, he was obviously doing it without malice, so I don't see the big deal". He reminded me of an incident back in the 90's when Bret Hart was a "bad guy" (but a good guy in Canada) and he was feuding with Shawn Michaels. Michaels took the Canadian flag and picked his nose with it. My buddy said "if I had been there, it would have taken a lot of security to hold me back from jumping the rails and beating the shit out of him! I protect my family and my pride in my country!". He also mentioned something about "not really liking americans" somewhere in the conversation, but still stands by their right to be patriotic.

I thougth this was one of the single dumbest conversations I'd ever had. I thought when Michaels did that it was hilarious. He was trying to piss off the Canadian crowd, and it worked like a charm. It's scripted entertainment. This isn't real life.

And even if it was real life, the last thing I'm going to get into a fight about is some jackass blowing his nose into a piece of cloth that happens to have a maple leaf on it. Who gives a shit?

hedonist

I can see where you're coming from, Hugh - it IS just a piece of cloth - and I think context is (almost) everything.

That said, that cloth is representative of much, to many, no matter the emblem within the fabric. It symbolizes something for them, to them.

Days like today - Memorial Day, Veteran's Day, D-Day, other "days" - my dad would put up the flag outside our front door, proudly. I loved seeing it out there, waving to us and to all. It meant freedom to him, and he taught me to love it for that.

After those commemorative days were over, on spring / summer evenings like this, even right around this time, I'd help him fold it military-style, on the triangular, going from opposite ends till our hands met.

He was so solemn when we did that and I don't think I fully got it at the time.

Now with me older and him gone, I appreciate it, always will - being witness to such....

grace.

rollings

hedonist wrote:

....., I'd help him fold it military-style, on the triangular, going from opposite ends till our hands met.

He was so solemn when we did that and I don't think I fully got it at the time.

Now with me older and him gone, I appreciate it, always will - being witness to such....

grace.

...just read this and had to comment...

grace says it all

brianlux

Hugh and Hedonist, both your posts are excellent. I mean, really, some of the best thought out, and well stated words that are from some place real and for me, they both work really really well .

brandon10

Godfather. wrote:

Patriotism is curable.....yes it is..you may leave any time you wish and never have to deal with it again,
if this country's freedoms and benifits don't suit you you can find another country that better suits your needs and I'm sure no patriotic American would mind.

Godfather.

Pretty defensive. You sound pretty insecure about your country. And while you speak of your countries freedoms, they are quickly eroding away....

GetALife

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbYVDjDpR8U

hedonist

brianlux wrote:

Hugh and Hedonist, both your posts are excellent. I mean, really, some of the best thought out, and well stated words that are from some place real and for me, they both work really really well .

Thank you, brian. Those memories (including the cloth itself ) are precious to me.

Godfather.

brandon10 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Patriotism is curable.....yes it is..you may leave any time you wish and never have to deal with it again,
if this country's freedoms and benifits don't suit you you can find another country that better suits your needs and I'm sure no patriotic American would mind.

Godfather.

Pretty defensive. You sound pretty insecure about your country. And while you speak of your countries freedoms, they are quickly eroding away....

yes thy are eroding away and it piss's me off so I'll do my patrotic duty and help to vote to get this clown out of office...what's his name...obama.

Godfather.