keychains in china (animal cruelty)

EmBleve

I should have known better than to look at this thread. :( :x The things mentioned here nauseate me, literally, and are so wrong and disgusting on so many levels. I really and truly hate people sometimes.

chadwick

Smellyman wrote:

Don't forget the US also blow up innocent people all around the world.....

war is not the same as cramming turtles, fishes, and salamanders into rubber/plastic keychains. yes the united states government seems to enjoy a bit of war. again, it isn't the same thing, war and turtle, fish or salamander stuffed into keychains.

Bronx Bombers

Smellyman wrote:

Don't forget the US also blow up innocent people all around the world.....

Sounds like you're trying to justify this behavior because I cannot understand how this has anything at all to do with the barbaric treatment of animals by the Chinese people?

Byrnzie

Electric_Delta wrote:

Cruelty to living things in China? Really? You don't say.

That's a very smug comment. Are you suggesting that Americans have a right to get on their moral high horse with regards to any other country?

Byrnzie

Some Chinese mistreat animals, though the majority of people don't. There are also some places that are worse than others for such things - Guangzhou in the south is known for it's dog meat, and it's markets where you can buy cats and dogs for food. But If I'm not wrong, the famous market down there was closed down about ten years ago.
Still, in a lot of the big cities now keeping pets has become very popular. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that 'the Chinese ' treat animals like shit. China is a country of over a billion people. Most people probably couldn't afford to have pets until fairly recently, so that may explain why generally China isn't known as an animal-loving nation.
One thing I am aware of is how most of the people I know with pets don't give their pet a name. I sometimes ask my students what their pets name is and they tell me they haven't given it a name. It's pretty weird. I think a lot of people here just regard animals as objects.

But yeah, fuck anyone who mistreats an animal. Though I've not seen anyone mistreat an animal here yet, and I've been here for four years.

PJ_Soul

Byrnzie wrote:

Some Chinese mistreat animals, though the majority of people don't. There are also some places that are worse than others for such things - Guangzhou in the south is known for it's dog meat, and it's markets where you can buy cats and dogs for food. But If I'm not wrong, the famous market down there was closed down about ten years ago.
Still, in a lot of the big cities now keeping pets has become very popular. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that 'the Chinese ' treat animals like shit. China is a country of over a billion people. Most people probably couldn't afford to have pets until fairly recently, so that may explain why generally China isn't known as an animal-loving nation.
One thing I am aware of is how most of the people I know with pets don't give their pet a name. I sometimes ask my students what their pets name is and they tell me they haven't given it a name. It's pretty weird. I think a lot of people here just regard animals as objects.

But yeah, fuck anyone who mistreats an animal. Though I've not seen anyone mistreat an animal here yet, and I've been here for four years.

Apparently another popular activity in those cities where pet ownership has grown is people buying expensive designer dogs as a display of their monetary wealth (a big focus in Chinese culture now... the biggest), and apparently one of these purchases don't cut it. It's common for them to throw their dog into the street once they either get sick of owning it or want to further display their wealth by buying another, yet more expensive designer dog. So what is going on now is that these poor dogs that are tossed into the street are often either picked up by unfit owners or for unsavory means (ie puppy mills), or just die miserable deaths in the streets.

And then, of course, there are all the stray non-designer dogs, who authorities just go out and kill with bats or collect for slaughter on a semi-regular basis - dog culls aren't uncommon in the cities. Here near where I live there is an area that is about 65% Chinese immigrants, and there is a massive rabbit infestation there now, because they all went through a phase where buying rabbits for pets got stylish... and then most of them would regret their choice (as many do who buy bunnies), and they all just released them into city parks, and the city was forced to do a rabbit cull. I was told all this by a friend of my mother's, who is from China and came to Canada to get the fuck out of her own country because she says their culture is going to ... the dogs. Badump-bum.

Many other Chinese who have left have said the same thing (it's a rather common subject around Vancouver because the Chinese immigrant population is massive, which has been creating some degree of culture clash given the significant incompatibility between Chinese and Western cultures, making the subject of the state of the Chinese culture a more common conversation, often being carried by certain Chinese people who are very unhappy about the direction it's taking (and that it is migrating to Chinese communities abroad). I know not very PC, but still true; don't shoot the messenger. It's a shame... a result, one would assume, of the good ol' cultural revolution, totalitarian "communist" government, population crisis, growth and normalization of corruption in government, business, and education, and the uncontrolled rapid push towards industrialization; they all seem to have combined to create something quite unfortunate as a whole).

Smellyman

Bronx Bombers wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

Don't forget the US also blow up innocent people all around the world.....

Sounds like you're trying to justify this behavior because I cannot understand how this has anything at all to do with the barbaric treatment of animals by the Chinese people?

No. No my earlier post condemned it greatly. There isn't anything I hate more than animal cruelty and am a vegetarian for that reason.

I made the point of the US killing millions of innocent people around the world because of all the talk about sanctions to China. US and other "western" countries love to sit on their high horse and claim moral superiority when it is just not the case.

PJ_Soul

Smellyman wrote:

Bronx Bombers wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

Don't forget the US also blow up innocent people all around the world.....

Sounds like you're trying to justify this behavior because I cannot understand how this has anything at all to do with the barbaric treatment of animals by the Chinese people?

No. No my earlier post condemned it greatly. There isn't anything I hate more than animal cruelty and am a vegetarian for that reason.

I made the point of the US killing millions of innocent people around the world because of all the talk about sanctions to China. US and other "western" countries love to sit on their high horse and claim moral superiority when it is just not the case.

Yeah, it's just that this is a thread about animal cruelty in China... We could all mention other bad shit that all kinds of other countries do, but I just don't understand what it has to do with this thread, because the people posting here aren't blowing up people all over the world - the U.S. isn't posting in this forum... :?

Byrnzie

PJ_Soul wrote:

I was told all this by a friend of my mother's, who is from China and came to Canada to get the fuck out of her own country because she says their culture is going to ... the dogs. Badump-bum.

...certain Chinese people who are very unhappy about the direction it's taking (and that it is migrating to Chinese communities abroad). I know not very PC, but still true; don't shoot the messenger. It's a shame... a result, one would assume, of the good ol' cultural revolution, totalitarian "communist" government, population crisis, growth and normalization of corruption in government, business, and education, and the uncontrolled rapid push towards industrialization; they all seem to have combined to create something quite unfortunate as a whole).

The Cultural Revolution ended in 1976. As for Chinese emigrating to escape a bad situation, I call bullshit. If any Chinese are leaving for this reason then it's a tiny minority who have probably run into trouble with the uthorities. But generally, the Chinese as a whole have it better now than they ever have before. There's probably more opportunity and money to be made here for them than there is in Vancouver. It's predeicted that China will have overtaken the U.S by the year 2020.
Also, you need to realise that the Chinese are a very patriotic people. This is not an oppressed society, despite what you may see on U.S, or Canadian t.v. People here more personal freedom here than anything I've seen in the West. Maybe not more political freedom, but certainly more personal freedom. I've never met anyone here in China who has expressed a desire to leave. The only people I know who have left are students who have gone abroad to study.

PJ_Soul

Byrnzie wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

I was told all this by a friend of my mother's, who is from China and came to Canada to get the fuck out of her own country because she says their culture is going to ... the dogs. Badump-bum.

...certain Chinese people who are very unhappy about the direction it's taking (and that it is migrating to Chinese communities abroad). I know not very PC, but still true; don't shoot the messenger. It's a shame... a result, one would assume, of the good ol' cultural revolution, totalitarian "communist" government, population crisis, growth and normalization of corruption in government, business, and education, and the uncontrolled rapid push towards industrialization; they all seem to have combined to create something quite unfortunate as a whole).

The Cultural Revolution ended in 1976. As for Chinese emigrating to escape a bad situation, I call bullshit. If any Chinese are leaving for this reason then it's a tiny minority who have probably run into trouble with the uthorities. But generally, the Chinese as a whole have it better now than they ever have before. There's probably more opportunity and money to be made here for them than there is in Vancouver. It's predeicted that China will have overtaken the U.S by the year 2020.
Also, you need to realise that the Chinese are a very patriotic people. This is not an oppressed society, despite what you may see on U.S, or Canadian t.v. People here more personal freedom here than anything I've seen in the West. Maybe not more political freedom, but certainly more personal freedom. I've never met anyone here in China who has expressed a desire to leave. The only people I know who have left are students who have gone abroad to study.

I know the cultural revolution ended. I was talking about what it did to Chinese culture in the long run.
After that... are you kidding?? You think people have more personal freedom in China? That is just completely false; I don't understand why you're saying it. People don't have freedom of speech or expression, their human and workers' rights are terrible... they can't even use the internet freely, and they can't have more than one child in urban areas. What are you talking about???
You've never met anyone with a desire to leave? Okay... tell that to the 30,000 Chinese immigrants that are allowed into Canada alone every year (not to mention the ones who aren't accepted, some of whom are found in shipping containers as they try to smuggle themselves in). Sooo.... just not really sure what you're talking about. I will agree, however, that the Chinese are very "patriotic." They really don't seem want to have anything to do with anyone over here other than other Chinese people; many of them don't bother learning English, ever. It seems to be a very closed society/community. So that tells me they're pretty happy with their culture... but I think they still like that they have way more personal freedom. I'm sure the lack of filthy air and water is something they appreciate as well. Have you seen the thread about the blind dissident (can't remember his name right now... Guangcheng?)? Well, he's incredibly patriotic clearly, and therefore FIGHTS for the freedom that isn't in China right now... and now he's trying to get Hilary Clinton to take him and his family to the US before they all get jailed or beaten to death.

Byrnzie

PJ_Soul wrote:

You think people have more personal freedom in China? That is just completely false; I don't understand why you're saying it. People don't have freedom of speech or expression, their human and workers' rights are terrible... they can't even use the internet freely, and they can't have more than one child in urban areas. What are you talking about???
You've never met anyone with a desire to leave? Okay... tell that to the 30,000 Chinese immigrants that are allowed into Canada alone every year (not to mention the ones who aren't accepted, some of whom are found in shipping containers as they try to smuggle themselves in). Sooo.... just not really sure what you're talking about. I will agree, however, that the Chinese are very "patriotic." They really don't seem want to have anything to do with anyone over here other than other Chinese people; many of them don't bother learning English, ever. It seems to be a very closed society/community. So that tells me they're pretty happy with their culture... but I think they still like that they have way more personal freedom. I'm sure the lack of filthy air and water is something they appreciate as well. Have you seen the thread about the blind dissident (can't remember his name right now... Guangcheng?)? Well, he's incredibly patriotic clearly, and therefore FIGHTS for the freedom that isn't in China right now... and now he's trying to get Hilary Clinton to take him and his family to the US before they all get jailed or beaten to death.

You clearly think you know more about China than someone who's lived here for five years.

As for emigration, 100,000 people emigrate from the U.K every year to live abroad. That doesn't mean that people hate the U.K, are feel they have no freedom there. There are many factors involved in why people choose to emigrate. Perhaps the fact that Vancouver has a large Chinese emigrant population is one reason why more Chinese want to live there? Has it occurred to you that a large percentage of the Chinese emigrating to Vancouver have relatives already living there and that they want to be with their families? The Chinese are very, very family oriented.
And as for 'personal freedom', yes, people in China have more personal freedom. This is no nanny state like England or the U.S. In people's day-to-day lives they have more personal freedom than people in the West. This is my impression after having lived here for five years, and it's also an opinion that I know is shared by other foreigners that have come to live and work here.
Oh, and the air here isn't filthy. I haven't used my asthma inhaler for years, whereas in England I had to use it at least twice a day. Maybe in some of the big cities there's a problem with pollution, but not in most places. Maybe Beijing, Chongqing, and a few other big cities have bad air quality, but I don't suppose it's any worse than L.A, or Mexico City.
And as for Chen Guangcheng, he's fighting for political freedom, which is not the same thing.

chadwick

Byrnzie wrote:

Some Chinese mistreat animals, though the majority of people don't. There are also some places that are worse than others for such things - Guangzhou in the south is known for it's dog meat, and it's markets where you can buy cats and dogs for food. But If I'm not wrong, the famous market down there was closed down about ten years ago.
Still, in a lot of the big cities now keeping pets has become very popular. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that 'the Chinese ' treat animals like shit. China is a country of over a billion people. Most people probably couldn't afford to have pets until fairly recently, so that may explain why generally China isn't known as an animal-loving nation.
One thing I am aware of is how most of the people I know with pets don't give their pet a name. I sometimes ask my students what their pets name is and they tell me they haven't given it a name. It's pretty weird. I think a lot of people here just regard animals as objects.

But yeah, fuck anyone who mistreats an animal. Though I've not seen anyone mistreat an animal here yet, and I've been here for four years.

good day to you my good man. i am pleased with your input. thank you.

Idris

I see people mistreat animals all the time, in Canada and the US. Many dog owners dressing up their dogs like children, carrying them around like you know..'key chains'. That's animal cruelty. The whole 'dog breed standard', Tail docking and Ear cropping too.

Look at the Cattle and other animals we consume. Only until recently have we become a little more conscious in the way we treat 'livestock'.

We cage chickens until they go crazy, laying eggs all day, we milk the cows dry, pump them with hormones.

Animal cruelty is animals cruelty, anywhere. It's wrong.

Even to a certain degree our dedicated practice of Spay/Neutering our pets should be on the list as being cruel to animals as well.

We also practice culling in Canada. We sell horse meat at the grocery stores, you could even get Dolphin meat here not too long ago, probably still can.

I personally don't think Canada is really much better, if better at all then some of these other countries, you know regarding animal cruelty. Maybe just our concept of it is slightly different.

Maybe it's really all the same.

Idris

chadwick wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Insane, cruel, disgusting, disconnected, and sickening. WFT is wrong with these people?

disconnected. very nice description

Yea nice description, well said. "disconnected".

chadwick

Idris wrote:

I see people mistreat animals all the time, in Canada and the US. Many dog owners dressing up their dogs like children, carrying them around like you know..'key chains'. That's animal cruelty. The whole 'dog breed standard', Tail docking and Ear cropping too.

Look at the Cattle and other animals we consume. Only until recently have we become a little more conscious in the way we treat 'livestock'.

We cage chickens until they go crazy, laying eggs all day, we milk the cows dry, pump them with hormones.

Animal cruelty is animals cruelty, anywhere. It's wrong.

Even to a certain degree our dedicated practice of Spay/Neutering our pets should be on the list as being cruel to animals as well.

We also practice culling in Canada. We sell horse meat at the grocery stores, you could even get Dolphin meat here not too long ago, probably still can.

I personally don't think Canada is really much better, if better at all then some of these other countries, you know regarding animal cruelty. Maybe just our concept of it is slightly different.

Maybe it's really all the same.

good points, Idris. thank you.

PJ_Soul

Idris wrote:

I see people mistreat animals all the time, in Canada and the US. Many dog owners dressing up their dogs like children, carrying them around like you know..'key chains'. That's animal cruelty. The whole 'dog breed standard', Tail docking and Ear cropping too.

Look at the Cattle and other animals we consume. Only until recently have we become a little more conscious in the way we treat 'livestock'.

We cage chickens until they go crazy, laying eggs all day, we milk the cows dry, pump them with hormones.

Animal cruelty is animals cruelty, anywhere. It's wrong.

Even to a certain degree our dedicated practice of Spay/Neutering our pets should be on the list as being cruel to animals as well.

We also practice culling in Canada. We sell horse meat at the grocery stores, you could even get Dolphin meat here not too long ago, probably still can.

I personally don't think Canada is really much better, if better at all then some of these other countries, you know regarding animal cruelty. Maybe just our concept of it is slightly different.

Maybe it's really all the same.

If you think Canada isn't much better than China as far as animal cruelty goes, you don't know what's actually going on in China. For example, it's believed that if meat is naturally injected with adrenaline right before death, then the meat tastes better. So the way they slaughter cats, dogs, and other smaller animals is by:

Taking them out of the crate they're in, stacked one on top of the other with broken limbs, etc, with a metal bar with a clamp at the end. They grab them by the neck with the clamp, and then beat them over the head to but are sure not to render them unconscious; they need to torture them for a while to get that adrenaline going. Then they dip them quickly in boiling water, then skin them alive. Then they throw them in a vat of water so that they drown to death. I've seen numerous videos of this with my own eyes - videos displayed so that people who are against animal torture know what's really going on and might fight to stop it; as a long time donating member of IFAW, I know quite a bit about the atrocities being committed against animals in the world ... So, yeah. I'm pretty sure that's not how we, um, slaughter our cats and dogs in Canada. :? And that kind of thing is not at all comparable to how things are done here in slaughterhouses (though improvements could certainly be made).

As for animal cruelty outside of the food industry... still not comparable. There really aren't any laws in China as far as that goes, whereas here there are. Was it this thread or another where someone posted an article about zoos in China that have made a day at the zoo a study in animal cruelty for children? Where they throw goats and chickens to the lions for fun, and at the glee of school children who are also participating? ... Don't think that's exactly acceptable in North America! I mean, people freak out and people go to jail for dog and cock fighting here. Not in China. So I just don't really understand how anyone can 1) defend China as far as animal rights go, and 2) try and say Canada or the US might be considered just as bad.

chadwick

PJ_Soul wrote:

Idris wrote:

I see people mistreat animals all the time, in Canada and the US. Many dog owners dressing up their dogs like children, carrying them around like you know..'key chains'. That's animal cruelty. The whole 'dog breed standard', Tail docking and Ear cropping too.

Look at the Cattle and other animals we consume. Only until recently have we become a little more conscious in the way we treat 'livestock'.

We cage chickens until they go crazy, laying eggs all day, we milk the cows dry, pump them with hormones.

Animal cruelty is animals cruelty, anywhere. It's wrong.

Even to a certain degree our dedicated practice of Spay/Neutering our pets should be on the list as being cruel to animals as well.

We also practice culling in Canada. We sell horse meat at the grocery stores, you could even get Dolphin meat here not too long ago, probably still can.

I personally don't think Canada is really much better, if better at all then some of these other countries, you know regarding animal cruelty. Maybe just our concept of it is slightly different.

Maybe it's really all the same.

If you think Canada isn't much better than China as far as animal cruelty goes, you don't know what's actually going on in China. For example, it's believed that if meat is naturally injected with adrenaline right before death, then the meat tastes better. So the way they slaughter cats, dogs, and other smaller animals is by:

Taking them out of the crate they're in, stacked one on top of the other with broken limbs, etc, with a metal bar with a clamp at the end. They grab them by the neck with the clamp, and then beat them over the head to but are sure not to render them unconscious; they need to torture them for a while to get that adrenaline going. Then they dip them quickly in boiling water, then skin them alive. Then they throw them in a vat of water so that they drown to death. I've seen numerous videos of this with my own eyes - videos displayed so that people who are against animal torture know what's really going on and might fight to stop it; as a long time donating member of IFAW, I know quite a bit about the atrocities being committed against animals in the world ... So, yeah. I'm pretty sure that's not how we, um, slaughter our cats and dogs in Canada. :? And that kind of thing is not at all comparable to how things are done here in slaughter houses (though improvements could certainly be made).

thank you, pj_soul. that information i did not know.

yeah i can't say we do that kinda shit in the states. and in the states we do not have bear farms for bear bile. do we have mink farms in canada or in the states? mink oil used for waterproofing boots and things.

chadwick

http://youtu.be/bIJCQdWbSJM
in january 2005 china sold fur to the u.s.
$1.2 million u.s. dollars was generated

this video is horrorific. the mink......... i am speechless

PJ_Soul

chadwick wrote:

http://youtu.be/bIJCQdWbSJM
in january 2005 china sold fur to the u.s.
$1.2 million u.s. dollars was generated

this video is horrorific. the mink......... i am speechless

Yep. Horrific would be the word, for lack of another word that really describes it. :( Common place in China though. No one cares at all (minus the miniscule number who are into animal rights - like a grain of sand at the beach). Yet another reason why the west should force China to change its ways by restricting trade until they do... But since money is #1 as far as corporations and politicians who want to get reelected are concerned, that's never going to happen. Humans kind of suck.

chadwick

PJ_Soul wrote:

chadwick wrote:

http://youtu.be/bIJCQdWbSJM
in january 2005 china sold fur to the u.s.
$1.2 million u.s. dollars was generated

this video is horrorific. the mink......... i am speechless

Yep. Horrific would be the word, for lack of another word that really describes it. :( Common place in China though. No one cares at all (minus the miniscule number who are into animal rights - like a grain of sand at the beach). Yet another reason why the west should force China to change its ways by restricting trade until they do... But since money is #1 as far as corporations and politicians who want to get reelected are concerned, that's never going to happen. Humans kind of suck.

yeah it is disgusting. and then there are those that point fingers at us (the u.s. and canada) and say we do the same. well....... kinda but no we don't.

i see cows out to pasture. i see hogs in the dirt and mud. sure many hogs are in concrete confinements and many chickens live in tiny cages. it is wrong to make anything live in a tiny wire cage.