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Afghanistan

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,838
    Is this the rah, rah, rah, USA, USA, USA or wag the dog for the cons on here?

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/27/politics/us-military-airstrike-isis-k-planner-afghanistan/index.html
    That article is what is known as propaganda.  Today it was revealed that those drone strikes in fact did not kill top ISIS/Taliban targets but civilians and 6 of them children. Look beyond US media (as they are mostly fake news).  This is not the retaliation that was wanted/needed. That was a horrendous and inexcusable mistake.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/several-children-killed-in-us-drone-strike-on-is-in-afghanistan-reports-101630282601336.html

    Interesting as I believe they’re two different separate incidents and yet the Hindustan Times quotes CNN in the article you posted. Are they quoting propaganda and helping to spread fake news? The CNN referenced drone strike didn’t happen in Kabul. 
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 12,214
    Is this the rah, rah, rah, USA, USA, USA or wag the dog for the cons on here?

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/27/politics/us-military-airstrike-isis-k-planner-afghanistan/index.html
    That article is what is known as propaganda.  Today it was revealed that those drone strikes in fact did not kill top ISIS/Taliban targets but civilians and 6 of them children. Look beyond US media (as they are mostly fake news).  This is not the retaliation that was wanted/needed. That was a horrendous and inexcusable mistake.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/several-children-killed-in-us-drone-strike-on-is-in-afghanistan-reports-101630282601336.html

    Several Afghans, including children, were killed in a drone strike in Afghanistan's Kabul on Sunday that the US said killed an Islamic State suicide car bomber suspected of preparing to attack the airport in the capital city, according to reports. CNN reported citing relatives and a local journalist that nine members of one family, including six children, were killed in the strike targeting a vehicle in a residential neighbourhood of Kabul. The youngest child was a two-year-old girl, the brother of one of the dead told a local journalist working with CNN.

    From your article....so are you posting fake news?
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,838
    We’re out of Afghanistan. Done. Out. Finally.
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 12,214
    Now the GOP can start the daily barrage of how someone got left behind and Biden said no one would be left behind.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,891
    It's just nice to hear the GQP care about the deaths of American service members after years of silence.
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  • jimjam1982jimjam1982 ArizonaPosts: 530
    I mean the Taliban is flying around people hanging from helicopters we left them.  Seems like a bold move to say good work Biden.  Guess CNN isn't reporting that yet.
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,891
    CNN is probably preparing for a Madison Cawthorn infomercial on the 25th Amendment.

    I don't really know whether to celebrate Biden but I do know not to celebrate Trump, Obama, and most of all, W.
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 22,762
    I mean the Taliban is flying around people hanging from helicopters we left them.  Seems like a bold move to say good work Biden.  Guess CNN isn't reporting that yet.
    After 20 years of war, that's what you're worried about?  Give me a break.  
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,891
    mrussel1 said:
    I mean the Taliban is flying around people hanging from helicopters we left them.  Seems like a bold move to say good work Biden.  Guess CNN isn't reporting that yet.
    After 20 years of war, that's what you're worried about?  Give me a break.  
    When you hate the left more than you love America, takes get weird.
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    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
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    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2021 Asbury Park
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 22,762
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I mean the Taliban is flying around people hanging from helicopters we left them.  Seems like a bold move to say good work Biden.  Guess CNN isn't reporting that yet.
    After 20 years of war, that's what you're worried about?  Give me a break.  
    When you hate the left more than you love America, takes get weird.
    If you think about it, satanic pedophiles are definitely worse than the Taliban.  So this makes perfect sense.  
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,838
    Prior to July 24th, this thread hadn’t been commented upon since March 2012. Just like last year, according to Media Matters, Afghanistan received a total of 5 minutes of coverage on tv news. ‘Murican’s really cared about that 20 year war.

    And hey, 637,000 dead ‘Muricans due to covid but livestock treatments. Embarrassing.
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 40,813
    edited August 30
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I mean the Taliban is flying around people hanging from helicopters we left them.  Seems like a bold move to say good work Biden.  Guess CNN isn't reporting that yet.
    After 20 years of war, that's what you're worried about?  Give me a break.  
    When you hate the left more than you love America, takes get weird.
    If you think about it, satanic pedophiles are definitely worse than the Taliban.  So this makes perfect sense.  
    i bet some of these people (to be clear: i'm talking about trump supporters in general, not necessarily here) hate Fauci more than the taliban
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,838
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I mean the Taliban is flying around people hanging from helicopters we left them.  Seems like a bold move to say good work Biden.  Guess CNN isn't reporting that yet.
    After 20 years of war, that's what you're worried about?  Give me a break.  
    When you hate the left more than you love America, takes get weird.
    If you think about it, satanic pedophiles are definitely worse than the Taliban.  So this makes perfect sense.  
    i bet some of these people (to be clear: i'm talking about trump supporters in general, not necessarily here) hate Fauci more than the taliban
    And satanic pedophiles.
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 28,144
    I read actually that leaving heavy duty equipment behind is standard operating procedure in situations like this. so yeah, thanks Biden. 
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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 25,711
    Do we know if any American citizens were unable to get out?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 40,813
    edited August 31
    Is this the rah, rah, rah, USA, USA, USA or wag the dog for the cons on here?

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/27/politics/us-military-airstrike-isis-k-planner-afghanistan/index.html
    That article is what is known as propaganda.  Today it was revealed that those drone strikes in fact did not kill top ISIS/Taliban targets but civilians and 6 of them children. Look beyond US media (as they are mostly fake news).  This is not the retaliation that was wanted/needed. That was a horrendous and inexcusable mistake.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/several-children-killed-in-us-drone-strike-on-is-in-afghanistan-reports-101630282601336.html

     @jimjam1982
     I'm curious if you'd like to take a stab at identifying for us why you believe that CNN article was propaganda? I'm also curious how you arrived at the conclusion that no ISIS targets were killed during the drone strike as your article does not mention that at all?

    I mean, I know certain types of people are immediately triggered by just the sight of these three mean letters: CNN. But please elaborate here. The article you posted actually cites the CNN one multiple times and expounds on the reporting as it came three days later. That CNN article offered no opinions and merely just reported the facts as they stood at that time.

    Today, in fact, this CNN article includes much of the same info your article references regarding the civilian casualties: https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/29/asia/afghanistan-kabul-evacuation-intl/index.html  ---yet that doesn't change anything from Friday's reporting though. Unfortunately, civilian casualties happen all the time in war...especially wars that have lasted two grueling decades. 

    As a frame of reference for you, I found an article from your Hindustantimes website from a few days ago that reported the drone strike in shockingly similar fashion to the way CNN did last week with just the facts that were available at the time. But I am guessing you will not say this is what is known as propaganda:
    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-hits-back-at-isis-k-days-after-kabul-attack-kills-terrorist-planner-in-drone-strike-in-afghanistan-101630114815836.html



    thanks for your time
    Post edited by The Juggler on
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,046
    Biden deserves a lot of blame.  He was President.  If Trump’s ideas were so terrible he could have changed a lot, and if he didn’t than it is on him.   

    I doubt any agreement with the Taliban allowed them to take military weapons from Afghanistan.  We should be targeting every military asset with a drone to destroy it (for example, helicopters).
    except no he could not have. he changed the withdrawl date from may to august. the taliban said any further deviation from that would be crossing a red line and we would be in breach of trump's deal. would people rather have had us breach the deal and have all hell break loose, or get out and have all hell break loose? i would rather us get the fuck out. we have been there too long. we have spent too much money and lost too many allied lives. we are war weary. we were not going to do anything further to help matters by staying. sometimes you have to cut bait and get out of there.
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,714

    Last troops exit Afghanistan, ending America's longest war
    By ROBERT BURNS and LOLITA C. BALDOR
    8 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States completed its withdrawal from Afghanistan late Monday, ending America’s longest war and closing a chapter in military history likely to be remembered for colossal failures, unfulfilled promises and a frantic final exit that cost the lives of more than 180 Afghans and 13 U.S. service members, some barely older than the war.

    Hours ahead of President Joe Biden's Tuesday deadline for shutting down a final airlift, and thus ending the U.S. war, Air Force transport planes carried a remaining contingent of troops from Kabul airport. Thousands of troops had spent a harrowing two weeks protecting a hurried and risky airlift of tens of thousands of Afghans, Americans and others seeking to escape a country once again ruled by Taliban militants.

    In announcing the completion of the evacuation and war effort. Gen. Frank McKenzie, head of U.S. Central Command, said the last planes took off from Kabul airport at 3:29 p.m. Washington time, or one minute before midnight in Kabul. He said a number of American citizens, likely numbering in “the very low hundreds,” were left behind, and that he believes they will still be able to leave the country.

    Biden said military commanders unanimously favored ending the airlift, not extending it. He said he asked Secretary of State Antony Blinken to coordinate with international partners in holding the Taliban to their promise of safe passage for Americans and others who want to leave in the days ahead.

    The airport had become a U.S.-controlled island, a last stand in a 20-year war that claimed more than 2,400 American lives.

    The closing hours of the evacuation were marked by extraordinary drama. American troops faced the daunting task of getting final evacuees onto planes while also getting themselves and some of their equipment out, even as they monitored repeated threats — and at least two actual attacks — by the Islamic State group's Afghanistan affiliate. A suicide bombing on Aug. 26 killed 13 American service members and some 169 Afghans.

    The Pentagon says it remains prepared to airlift more Americans from the Kabul airport, even as the evacuation winds down. And will also look into reports of drone strike casualties. (Aug. 30)

    The final pullout fulfilled Biden's pledge to end what he called a “forever war” that began in response to the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, that killed nearly 3,000 people in New York, Washington and rural Pennsylvania. His decision, announced in April, reflected a national weariness of the Afghanistan conflict. Now he faces condemnation at home and abroad, not so much for ending the war as for his handling of a final evacuation that unfolded in chaos and raised doubts about U.S. credibility.

    The U.S. war effort at times seemed to grind on with no endgame in mind, little hope for victory and minimal care by Congress for the way tens of billions of dollars were spent for two decades. The human cost piled up — tens of thousands of Americans injured in addition to the dead, and untold numbers suffering psychological wounds they live with or have not yet recognized they will live with.

    More than 1,100 troops from coalition countries and more than 100,000 Afghan forces and civilians died, according to Brown University’s Costs of War project.

    In Biden's view the war could have ended 10 years ago with the U.S. killing of Osama bin Laden, whose al-Qaida extremist network planned and executed the 9/11 plot from an Afghanistan sanctuary. Al-Qaida has been vastly diminished, preventing it thus far from again attacking the United States.

    Congressional committees, whose interest in the war waned over the years, are expected to hold public hearings on what went wrong in the final months of the U.S. withdrawal. Why, for example, did the administration not begin earlier the evacuation of American citizens as well as Afghans who had helped the U.S. war effort and felt vulnerable to retribution by the Taliban?

    It was not supposed to end this way. The administration's plan, after declaring its intention to withdraw all combat troops, was to keep the U.S. Embassy in Kabul open, protected by a force of about 650 U.S. troops, including a contingent that would secure the airport along with partner countries. Washington planned to give the now-defunct Afghan government billions more to prop up its army.

    Biden now faces doubts about his plan to prevent al-Qaida from regenerating in Afghanistan and of suppressing threats posed by other extremist groups such as the Islamic State group's Afghanistan affiliate. The Taliban are enemies of the Islamic State group but retain links to a diminished al-Qaida.

    The final U.S. exit included the withdrawal of its diplomats, although the State Department has left open the possibility of resuming some level of diplomacy with the Taliban depending on how they conduct themselves in establishing a government and adhering to international pleas for the protection of human rights.

    The speed with which the Taliban captured Kabul on Aug. 15 caught the Biden administration by surprise. It forced the U.S. to empty its embassy and frantically accelerate an evacuation effort that featured an extraordinary airlift executed mainly by the U.S. Air Force, with American ground forces protecting the airfield. The airlift began in such chaos that a number of Afghans died on the airfield, including at least one who attempted to cling to the airframe of a C-17 transport plane as it sped down the runway.

    By the evacuation's conclusion, well over 100,000 people, mostly Afghans, had been flown to safety. The dangers of carrying out such a mission while surrounded by the newly victorious Taliban and faced with attacks by the Islamic State came into tragic focus on Aug. 26 when an IS suicide bomber at an airport gate killed at least 169 Afghans and 13 Americans.

    Speaking shortly after that attack, Biden stuck to his view that ending the war was the right move. He said it was past time for the United States to focus on threats emanating from elsewhere in the world.

    “Ladies and gentlemen,” he said, “it was time to end a 20-year war.”

    The war's start was an echo of a promise President George W. Bush made while standing atop of the rubble in New York City three days after hijacked airliners slammed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center.

    “The people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon!” he declared through a bullhorn.

    Less than a month later, on Oct. 7, Bush launched the war. The Taliban's forces were overwhelmed and Kabul fell in a matter of weeks. A U.S.-installed government led by Hamid Karzai took over and bin Laden and his al-Qaida cohort escaped across the border into Pakistan.

    The initial plan was to extinguish bin Laden’s al-Qaida, which had used Afghanistan as a staging base for its attack on the United States. The grander ambition was to fight a “Global War on Terrorism” based on the belief that military force could somehow defeat Islamic extremism. Afghanistan was but the first round of that fight. Bush chose to make Iraq the next, invading in 2003 and getting mired in an even deadlier conflict that made Afghanistan a secondary priority until Barack Obama assumed the White House in 2009 and later that year decided to escalate in Afghanistan.

    Obama pushed U.S. troop levels to 100,000, but the war dragged on though bin Laden was killed in Pakistan in 2011.

    When Donald Trump entered the White House in 2017 he wanted to withdraw from Afghanistan but was persuaded not only to stay but to add several thousand U.S. troops and escalate attacks on the Taliban. Two years later his administration was looking for a deal with the Taliban, and in February 2020 the two sides signed an agreement that called for a complete U.S. withdrawal by May 2021. In exchange, the Taliban made a number of promises including a pledge not to attack U.S. troops.

    Biden weighed advice from members of his national security team who argued for retaining the 2,500 troops who were in Afghanistan by the time he took office in January. But in mid-April he announced his decision to fully withdraw and set September as a deadline for getting out.

    The Taliban then pushed an offensive that by early August toppled key cities, including provincial capitals. The Afghan army largely collapsed, sometimes surrendering rather than taking a final stand, and shortly after President Ashraf Ghani fled the capital, the Taliban rolled into Kabul and assumed control on Aug. 15.

    continues


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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 28,144
    credit to trump for making the deal, credit to biden for following through with it. there were going to be lost lives no matter who was president. the only difference is, biden won't obliterate a whole country and countless civilian lives as retaliation, as I believe trump would likely have. 
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,263
    I read actually that leaving heavy duty equipment behind is standard operating procedure in situations like this. so yeah, thanks Biden. 
    I think to some degree, yes. Like small trucks etc. but leaving over 100 helicopters and 100 planes I doubt. Especially Black Hawks that probably contain technology we don’t want to get in enemy hands.
    I don’t actually blame Biden for that though. My understanding is they were left for the Afghanistan army to use, and they just gave up instead.
    I blame military and intelligence for not having a plan B to recover or destroy these items instead of letting them fall into the hands of the Tainan to be used or sold.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,714
    mace1229 said:
    I read actually that leaving heavy duty equipment behind is standard operating procedure in situations like this. so yeah, thanks Biden. 
    I think to some degree, yes. Like small trucks etc. but leaving over 100 helicopters and 100 planes I doubt. Especially Black Hawks that probably contain technology we don’t want to get in enemy hands.
    I don’t actually blame Biden for that though. My understanding is they were left for the Afghanistan army to use, and they just gave up instead.
    I blame military and intelligence for not having a plan B to recover or destroy these items instead of letting them fall into the hands of the Tainan to be used or sold.

    intended for the afghan air force and army to use. military aid   in line with other countries who receive military equipment from us as allies.

    there was no way aircraft or other materiel in use by U.S. forces was abandoned. not in any orderly retreat or withdrawal with the exceprion of worn out vehicles etc deemed more cost effective to leave than transport.

    just how did people expect afghan forces to fight the Taliban with out equipment  we GAVE them?
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,263
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    I read actually that leaving heavy duty equipment behind is standard operating procedure in situations like this. so yeah, thanks Biden. 
    I think to some degree, yes. Like small trucks etc. but leaving over 100 helicopters and 100 planes I doubt. Especially Black Hawks that probably contain technology we don’t want to get in enemy hands.
    I don’t actually blame Biden for that though. My understanding is they were left for the Afghanistan army to use, and they just gave up instead.
    I blame military and intelligence for not having a plan B to recover or destroy these items instead of letting them fall into the hands of the Tainan to be used or sold.

    intended for the afghan air force and army to use. military aid   in line with other countries who receive military equipment from us as allies.

    there was no way aircraft or other materiel in use by U.S. forces was abandoned. not in any orderly retreat or withdrawal with the exceprion of worn out vehicles etc deemed more cost effective to leave than transport.

    just how did people expect afghan forces to fight the Taliban with out equipment  we GAVE them?
    That’s exactly what I said. Intended for the Afghanistan army. Or small vehicles not worth bringing back. Which is why I said I don’t blame Biden. 
    But still there should have been a plan to recover or destroy them when the Afghanistan army abandoned them. Doesn’t look like anyone expected them to hold out more than several months, so what did the army plan to do with them then? I don’t put that on Biden, but someone should have thought of that and prevent all that from going to the Taliban and being sold around the world.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 40,813
    edited August 31
    The general said they “demilitarized” everything left recently.  So these are basically useless

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/theweek.com/afghanistan-war/1004338/the-us-destroyed-or-demilitarized-all-equipment-left-at-kabul-airport%3famp
    Post edited by The Juggler on
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,714
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,518
    I read actually that leaving heavy duty equipment behind is standard operating procedure in situations like this. so yeah, thanks Biden. 
    Many times it's just cheaper to leave it and purchase new if needed.  It keeps the wheel turning and economy moving.

    or It was meant for the Afghan military to use.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,046
    is it more important to get people out, or get equipment out?

    all of these people complaining that we left equipment forget that we used cargo planes to evacuate people. the same cargo planes that transport vehicles and equipment. we had to prioritize one over the other. could not get both out in the same short timeframe.

    also, blackhawks have been around over 20 years. i am sure there have been other newer helicopters in the world based off of them, and i would bet that the technology is really no secret at this point. how many have crashed or have been shot down and studied by our enemies?
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  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 9,111
    is it more important to get people out, or get equipment out?

    all of these people complaining that we left equipment forget that we used cargo planes to evacuate people. the same cargo planes that transport vehicles and equipment. we had to prioritize one over the other. could not get both out in the same short timeframe.

    also, blackhawks have been around over 20 years. i am sure there have been other newer helicopters in the world based off of them, and i would bet that the technology is really no secret at this point. how many have crashed or have been shot down and studied by our enemies?
    Most of the equipment is disabled and the technology removed. There is no place to store this stuff. Its cheaper and easier to leave behind equipment that no longer has a defined usability. 
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,450
    Does anyone know whether this equipment had the ability to be remotely disabled? If not, that's a severe oversight on the development of military equipment. Even guns exist with fingerprint ID at this point, so the concept of preventative mechanisms on weaponry is hardly novel.
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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 15,125
    benjs said:
    Does anyone know whether this equipment had the ability to be remotely disabled? If not, that's a severe oversight on the development of military equipment. Even guns exist with fingerprint ID at this point, so the concept of preventative mechanisms on weaponry is hardly novel.
    I don't know but I'd doubt it. If the goal was to make the Afghan military independent, I'd imagine that the US would've given them control of everything. But maybe not....since the US military should've realized at some point how incompetent the Afghan military they trained was.

    According to the Times of London, it's 90 Billion Dollars worth of equipment. The Times article is behind a paywall, but Tucker Carlson recapped it in the first 1:14 of this video...


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  • RunIntoTheRainRunIntoTheRain TexasPosts: 896

    "Marine Gen. Frank McKenzie, the head of U.S. military’s Central Command, earlier said troops disabled 27 Humvees and 73 aircraft so they cannot be used again. He said troops did not blow up equipment needed for eventually restarting airport operations."

    "Before dawn broke, heavily armed Taliban fighters walked through hangars, passing some of the seven CH-46 helicopters the State Department used in its evacuations before rendering them unusable."



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