They really feed kids this stuff?
Comments
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Paul Andrews wrote:Sorry got a bit carried away, but the point I was trying to make is that this is the role model we set for our kids and the way we raise them. We cook all their foods and send that same food with them to school in their lunchboxes. By letting the 'run for profit' school cafeteria feed your kids, I believe you're asking for trouble. Jamie Oliver pointed this out and was banned from certain states' schools.
Pink slime, HFCS, transfats and other 'food products' abound in the food we give our children - less so here in Australia, but we usually follow your lead eventually. It is only by rejecting these profit making practices and returning to the basics of good lifestyle that our children will grow to be healthy, informed consumers.
:thumbup:
i totally get what you are saying ... not sure why you are getting so much negativity!?? ...
i think the humanely slaughtered aspect is very important ... sure, dead is dead but respecting the life that is feeding us in important ... it's the lack of respect of where our food comes from that allows this stuff to enter into the food system and companies like monsanto to profit from their lies ...0 -
polaris_x wrote:peacefrompaul wrote:If it's such a big deal to you, don't buy it.
what kind of attitude is this? ... corporations are poisoning the population and this is what you think?
btw - they don't use pink slime in canada ... just like they ban rbgh here ... we aren't the greatest country in the world but we do care a little about the people ...
My attitude is if you don't buy it, the corporations don't make it.0 -
peacefrompaul wrote:My attitude is if you don't buy it, the corporations don't make it.
people didn't know they were buying it ... that's part of the point ... they do not require any labeling ...0 -
polaris_x wrote:peacefrompaul wrote:My attitude is if you don't buy it, the corporations don't make it.
people didn't know they were buying it ... that's part of the point ... they do not require any labeling ...
I agree with the idea of "don't buy it/ they'll stop selling it". But that is very much dependent on labeling products which is why some of us are working very hard to get GMO's labeled- so we have the choice to not buy it."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
brianlux wrote:polaris_x wrote:peacefrompaul wrote:My attitude is if you don't buy it, the corporations don't make it.
people didn't know they were buying it ... that's part of the point ... they do not require any labeling ...
I agree with the idea of "don't buy it/ they'll stop selling it". But that is very much dependent on labeling products which is why some of us are working very hard to get GMO's labeled- so we have the choice to not buy it.
So hopefully this report will tell people about it. We don't need more regulations.0 -
peacefrompaul wrote:
So hopefully this report will tell people about it. We don't need more regulations.
NO, this is exactly why you need regulation.
I've never understood this American rally against regulation. The neo cons would sell you down the river if they could and suck you all in on their anti government rubbish. All the sports you follow have regulation - they're called rules. Our societies have regulation - they'e called laws. These regulations protect society from those who will mercilessly take advantage of you over and over and really not give a fuck about the end result so long as their wallets get fatter. It has been shown time and again that a Laissez-faire attitude to industry products horrible results - ie Pink Slime, Trans Fat, HFCS, Caner-causing additives, Pollution... America has not become the most obese nation on the earth through food industries looking after their customers - and those same customers making informed decisions.
Sure, a report comes out and a few people take notice, some even change their buying habits, but for most, it is just more clutter in the clusterfuck of information thrown at them each day. Instead of reporting this issue, Douchebags like Faux News will report it as an attack on your rights to eat what you want, rather than a health issue (I've seen Hannity do it), others will ignore it because it is not 'exciting' news. So in the end very few people will see it and even less will act on it. In cases like this, government must step in and produce regulation to make sure the food you eat and the water you drink does not cause harm. Healthy food regulations do not stop them making a profit, they just stop them making unsafe rubbish. They also save money from the healthcare industry in the long run. Do you think the unemployed family struggling to keep a roof over their head is really going to be able to make this issue a priority when a cheap meal at school is on offer?
Remember, the food lobby is a very powerful and well funded group. They can bribe all your politicians many times over. How the hell did Pizza get listed as a vegetable because it has tomato sauce on it?
There is a huge level of personal responsibility and I do believe people need to take responsibility for themselves, but while industry has the power to product better, less harmful products, but doesn't, government regulation is the only answer to issues such as this.
Education and consumer choice only goes so far.Post edited by Paul Andrews on0 -
Paul Andrews wrote:peacefrompaul wrote:
So hopefully this report will tell people about it. We don't need more regulations.
NO, this is exactly why you need regulation.
I've never understood this American rally against regulation. The neo cons would sell you down the river if they could and suck you all in on their anti government rubbish. All the sports you follow have regulation - they're called rules. Our societies have regulation - they'e called laws. These regulations protect society from those who will mercilessly take advantage of you over and over and really not give a fuck about the end result so long as their wallets get fatter. It has been shown time and again that a Laissez-faire attitude to industry products horrible results - ie Pink Slime, Trans Fat, HFCS, Caner-causing additives, Pollution... America has not become the most obese nation on the earth through food industries looking after their customers - and those same customers making informed decisions.
Sure, a report comes out and a few people take notice, some even change their buying habits, but for most, it is just more clutter in the clusterfuck of information thrown at them each day. Instead of reporting this issue, Douchebags like Faux News will report it as an attack on your rights to eat what you want, rather than a health issue (I've seen Hannity do it), others will ignore it because it is not 'exciting' news. So in the end very few people will see it and even less will act on it. In cases like this, government must step in and produce regulation to make sure the food you eat and the water you drink does not cause harm. Healthy food regulations do not stop them making a profit, they just stop them making unsafe rubbish. They also save money from the healthcare industry in the long run. Do you think the unemployed family struggling to keep a roof over their head is really going to be able to make this issue a priority when a cheap meal at school is on offer?
Their is a huge level of personal responsibility and I do believe people need to take responsibility for themselves, but while industry has the power to product better, less harmful products, but doesn't, government regulation is the only answer to issues such as this.
Education and consumer choice only goes so far.
Education goes a long way when you learn to think for yourself. I don't need the government telling me not to buy something. Hell, maybe we should just ban all fast food while we're at it. Tell me it's in there and I won't buy it, I agree with that... It needs to be labeled.0 -
peacefrompaul wrote:Paul Andrews wrote:peacefrompaul wrote:
So hopefully this report will tell people about it. We don't need more regulations.
NO, this is exactly why you need regulation.
I've never understood this American rally against regulation. The neo cons would sell you down the river if they could and suck you all in on their anti government rubbish. All the sports you follow have regulation - they're called rules. Our societies have regulation - they'e called laws. These regulations protect society from those who will mercilessly take advantage of you over and over and really not give a fuck about the end result so long as their wallets get fatter. It has been shown time and again that a Laissez-faire attitude to industry products horrible results - ie Pink Slime, Trans Fat, HFCS, Caner-causing additives, Pollution... America has not become the most obese nation on the earth through food industries looking after their customers - and those same customers making informed decisions.
Sure, a report comes out and a few people take notice, some even change their buying habits, but for most, it is just more clutter in the clusterfuck of information thrown at them each day. Instead of reporting this issue, Douchebags like Faux News will report it as an attack on your rights to eat what you want, rather than a health issue (I've seen Hannity do it), others will ignore it because it is not 'exciting' news. So in the end very few people will see it and even less will act on it. In cases like this, government must step in and produce regulation to make sure the food you eat and the water you drink does not cause harm. Healthy food regulations do not stop them making a profit, they just stop them making unsafe rubbish. They also save money from the healthcare industry in the long run. Do you think the unemployed family struggling to keep a roof over their head is really going to be able to make this issue a priority when a cheap meal at school is on offer?
Their is a huge level of personal responsibility and I do believe people need to take responsibility for themselves, but while industry has the power to product better, less harmful products, but doesn't, government regulation is the only answer to issues such as this.
Education and consumer choice only goes so far.
Education goes a long way when you learn to think for yourself. I don't need the government telling me not to buy something. Hell, maybe we should just ban all fast food while we're at it. Tell me it's in there and I won't buy it, I agree with that... It needs to be labeled.
I very much want to agree with you, peacefrompaul, because I'm very big on education and I think the govenment telling us what to do has its problems. But I have to agree with Paul Andrews because on the whole, we in America don't make good choices. Far to many are not involved in the decision making process. Look at voter turn out figures. Corporations know this. They know the American people are poorly educated and generally apathetic. They put poison in our food if it increases their profits. Sad to say- until we become a better informed and more actively involved people, we need government regulations."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
peacefrompaul wrote:
Education goes a long way when you learn to think for yourself. I don't need the government telling me not to buy something. Hell, maybe we should just ban all fast food while we're at it. Tell me it's in there and I won't buy it, I agree with that... It needs to be labeled.
Arguing that the government is telling you what you can and cannot eat is a furphy and straight out of the Sean Hannity playbook as I mentioned. No-one, well not me, is saying fast food should be banned. However, a little regulation telling companies that a product must not contain certain ingredients or much achieve a certain prerequisite level is not telling you what you can and cannot eat. By using smart regulation, a very happy medium can be obtained, one that allows for free enterprise to thrive but also protect those who need protecting from the unscrupulous.
A good example (from West Australian law) is the meat industry. It is regulated that a sausage must contain at least 50% lean meat, no more than a safe level of preservatives and a upper limit of starch. Minced meat must not contain preservative or starch of any kind and must be labeled according to the animal it was sourced from - beef, lamb, pork. Another is cured meats must contain no more than a certain level of nitrites (cancer causing) and salt. This is for consumer protection and easy to work within these regulations. These regulations are not onerous and don't stop people from eating what they like, they just stop the cowboys who would exploit people and undermine their competitors by falsely representing their products or producing unsafe products.
Food definitely needs to be labeled - and clearly. I read the labels of every food product I buy, but as a rule avoid processed food. However, not everyone is as educated or able to make such an informed decision - some don't even care, but in order to make sure their children have a chance, or that the nation's healthcare bill does not balloon out of proportion, it is important the government set food standards to at least set a minimum benchmark of food safety and nutrition.
Food regulation is not a bad thing, it is to ensure a minimum set of standards are met for the common good.0 -
brianlux wrote:
I very much want to agree with you, peacefrompaul, because I'm very big on education and I think the govenment telling us what to do has its problems. But I have to agree with Paul Andrews because on the whole, we in America don't make good choices. Far to many are not involved in the decision making process. Look at voter turn out figures. Corporations know this. They know the American people are poorly educated and generally apathetic. They put poison in our food if it increases their profits. Sad to say- until we become a better informed and more actively involved people, we need government regulations.
I understand and respect your position Brian (as well as Paul's). Once again, I have a lot of faith in the people to make the right choices for themselves and to educate themselves.0 -
brianlux wrote:peacefrompaul wrote:Paul Andrews wrote:NO, this is exactly why you need regulation.
I've never understood this American rally against regulation. The neo cons would sell you down the river if they could and suck you all in on their anti government rubbish. All the sports you follow have regulation - they're called rules. Our societies have regulation - they'e called laws. These regulations protect society from those who will mercilessly take advantage of you over and over and really not give a fuck about the end result so long as their wallets get fatter. It has been shown time and again that a Laissez-faire attitude to industry products horrible results - ie Pink Slime, Trans Fat, HFCS, Caner-causing additives, Pollution... America has not become the most obese nation on the earth through food industries looking after their customers - and those same customers making informed decisions.
Sure, a report comes out and a few people take notice, some even change their buying habits, but for most, it is just more clutter in the clusterfuck of information thrown at them each day. Instead of reporting this issue, Douchebags like Faux News will report it as an attack on your rights to eat what you want, rather than a health issue (I've seen Hannity do it), others will ignore it because it is not 'exciting' news. So in the end very few people will see it and even less will act on it. In cases like this, government must step in and produce regulation to make sure the food you eat and the water you drink does not cause harm. Healthy food regulations do not stop them making a profit, they just stop them making unsafe rubbish. They also save money from the healthcare industry in the long run. Do you think the unemployed family struggling to keep a roof over their head is really going to be able to make this issue a priority when a cheap meal at school is on offer?
Their is a huge level of personal responsibility and I do believe people need to take responsibility for themselves, but while industry has the power to product better, less harmful products, but doesn't, government regulation is the only answer to issues such as this.
Education and consumer choice only goes so far.
Education goes a long way when you learn to think for yourself. I don't need the government telling me not to buy something. Hell, maybe we should just ban all fast food while we're at it. Tell me it's in there and I won't buy it, I agree with that... It needs to be labeled.
I very much want to agree with you, peacefrompaul, because I'm very big on education and I think the govenment telling us what to do has its problems. But I have to agree with Paul Andrews because on the whole, we in America don't make good choices. Far to many are not involved in the decision making process. Look at voter turn out figures. Corporations know this. They know the American people are poorly educated and generally apathetic. They put poison in our food if it increases their profits. Sad to say- until we become a better informed and more actively involved people, we need government regulations.
At the same time though Brian, (and I'm generally in favor of regulations), let's remember who's in the FDA making regulations: former execs of Monsanto. I think anyone who trusts the FDA to make safe rules for our food isn't thinking critically. The best option in this case of pink slime is either to go vegetarian or eat only organic or locally raised meat. The U.S. is not going to start prioritizing the public's best interest in front of special interests of their own. We should know that by now. Creating regulations regarding pink slime is like a dream that will never truly happen when the food in our stores is coming from factory farming.0 -
peacefrompaul wrote:brianlux wrote:
I very much want to agree with you, peacefrompaul, because I'm very big on education and I think the govenment telling us what to do has its problems. But I have to agree with Paul Andrews because on the whole, we in America don't make good choices. Far to many are not involved in the decision making process. Look at voter turn out figures. Corporations know this. They know the American people are poorly educated and generally apathetic. They put poison in our food if it increases their profits. Sad to say- until we become a better informed and more actively involved people, we need government regulations.
I understand and respect your position Brian (as well as Paul's). Once again, I have a lot of faith in the people to make the right choices for themselves and to educate themselves.
You should meet my wife-- you would like her. She too is a die-hard optimist!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Paul Andrews wrote:peacefrompaul wrote:
Education goes a long way when you learn to think for yourself. I don't need the government telling me not to buy something. Hell, maybe we should just ban all fast food while we're at it. Tell me it's in there and I won't buy it, I agree with that... It needs to be labeled.
Arguing that the government is telling you what you can and cannot eat is a furphy and straight out of the Sean Hannity playbook as I mentioned. No-one, well not me, is saying fast food should be banned. However, a little regulation telling companies that a product must not contain certain ingredients or much achieve a certain prerequisite level is not telling you what you can and cannot eat. By using smart regulation, a very happy medium can be obtained, one that allows for free enterprise to thrive but also protect those who need protecting from the unscrupulous.
A good example (from West Australian law) is the meat industry. It is regulated that a sausage must contain at least 50% lean meat, no more than a safe level of preservatives and a upper limit of starch. Minced meat must not contain preservative or starch of any kind and must be labeled according to the animal it was sourced from - beef, lamb, pork. Another is cured meats must contain no more than a certain level of nitrites (cancer causing) and salt. This is for consumer protection and easy to work within these regulations. These regulations are not onerous and don't stop people from eating what they like, they just stop the cowboys who would exploit people and undermine their competitors by falsely representing their products or producing unsafe products.
Food definitely needs to be labeled - and clearly. I read the labels of every food product I buy, but as a rule avoid processed food. However, not everyone is as educated or able to make such an informed decision - some don't even care, but in order to make sure their children have a chance, or that the nation's healthcare bill does not balloon out of proportion, it is important the government set food standards to at least set a minimum benchmark of food safety and nutrition.
Food regulation is not a bad thing, it is to ensure a minimum set of standards are met for the common good.
The common good, yes, the General Will. I can't and won't agree with you Paul... But I, as you, agree there needs to be a label on the product. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts on the issue. For the record I don't pay any attention to Sean Hannity.0 -
brianlux wrote:peacefrompaul wrote:brianlux wrote:
I very much want to agree with you, peacefrompaul, because I'm very big on education and I think the govenment telling us what to do has its problems. But I have to agree with Paul Andrews because on the whole, we in America don't make good choices. Far to many are not involved in the decision making process. Look at voter turn out figures. Corporations know this. They know the American people are poorly educated and generally apathetic. They put poison in our food if it increases their profits. Sad to say- until we become a better informed and more actively involved people, we need government regulations.
I understand and respect your position Brian (as well as Paul's). Once again, I have a lot of faith in the people to make the right choices for themselves and to educate themselves.
You should meet my wife-- you would like her. She too is a die-hard optimist!
Awesome, someday Brian. 0 -
Jeanwah wrote:
At the same time though Brian, (and I'm generally in favor of regulations), let's remember who's in the FDA making regulations: former execs of Monsanto. I think anyone who trusts the FDA to make safe rules for our food isn't thinking critically. The best option in this case of pink slime is either to go vegetarian or eat only organic or locally raised meat. The U.S. is not going to start prioritizing the public's best interest in front of special interests of their own. We should know that by now. Creating regulations regarding pink slime is like a dream that will never truly happen when the food in our stores is coming from factory farming.
Yikes! Good point, Jeanwah! Your right, "either go vegetarian or eat only organic or locally raised meat" or try that living on air thing. I think Dick Gregory almost managed to do that once.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
-
America does need to learn from other countries. While you guys have shown the world some amazing things and advanced the cause of mankind in many ways (I'm no USA hater - just a realist), there comes a time when you really as a country need to take a look at what some other countries are doing and learn from them. Unfortunately the vested interest groups and corporations who also control the media, and often what you can and cannot learn in school, will hold you guys back for their own personal gain. Watching some of the USA style politics and media styles slipping into our culture is frightening, because while it brings results fore the interest groups, it does nothing for the population.
Food regulation, healthcare, drug laws, the justice system, gun laws are prime examples of thing you guys need to research from other nations and compare with your own, and work out who exactly benefits from the status quo in the USA, because from where I sit, it rarely looks like it is the general population who is benefiting - more often huge corporations and politicians. This is not to say we have it 100% either, and not that you guys do not have much to teach the world, but we are all being sold a rat's arse as a wedding ring by our leaders and corporations these days and only by education, rational informed debate and the willingness to try different options will people regain control over their lives. Government regulation should be a conduit for people to have control (government by the people for the people) but too often it is painted as anti-people by the very same people who are using it to oppress or defraud you - mainly because these interest groups have corrupted the process and the general population is too apathetic to care.0 -
Thanks Brianlux anbd Jeanwah
You've hit the nail on the head so to speak and put context to what I was saying above. Peacefrompaul - wasn't accusing you of being a Sean Hannity watcher, and in a lot of ways I agree with your sentiments - and in a perfect world, I believe total freedom and libertarian values would work. However, given the propensity of the powerful to exploit the weak, a level of regulation is needed.
The corruption of your political institutions by the corporations is what has most likely made such distrust in government. To see your politicians water down lobbyist regulations or even what they can and cannot disclose to share traders ahead of announcements show how badly broken the system has become. That so few Americans vote is also disheartening because it has handed control of your so called democracy to the corporations. Even though it was an average film, Eddie Murphy's "Distinguished Gentleman" or a more polished "Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister" from the UK were good examples as to why government has gone so wrong and become a repressive force rather then a liberating and protecting force - but to my mind, government needs to be taken back by educated and benevolent people.
It really does look like the sharks are in charge of the fish pond and the only way to ensure your safety is to be a piranha .
Great debate guys !0 -
Paul Andrews wrote:America does need to learn from other countries. While you guys have shown the world some amazing things and advanced the cause of mankind in many ways (I'm no USA hater - just a realist), there comes a time when you really as a country need to take a look at what some other countries are doing and learn from them. Unfortunately the vested interest groups and corporations who also control the media, and often what you can and cannot learn in school, will hold you guys back for their own personal gain. Watching some of the USA style politics and media styles slipping into our culture is frightening, because while it brings results fore the interest groups, it does nothing for the population.
Food regulation, healthcare, drug laws, the justice system, gun laws are prime examples of thing you guys need to research from other nations and compare with your own, and work out who exactly benefits from the status quo in the USA, because from where I sit, it rarely looks like it is the general population who is benefiting - more often huge corporations and politicians. This is not to say we have it 100% either, and not that you guys do not have much to teach the world, but we are all being sold a rat's arse as a wedding ring by our leaders and corporations these days and only by education, rational informed debate and the willingness to try different options will people regain control over their lives. Government regulation should be a conduit for people to have control (government by the people for the people) but too often it is painted as anti-people by the very same people who are using it to oppress or defraud you - mainly because these interest groups have corrupted the process and the general population is too apathetic to care.
Great point Paul, corporations and interest groups are a big problem when they get into politics. It's a place they shouldn't be... It's too bad our politicians listen to them and... maybe take a few tickets to a sporting event, concert, and/or a nice vacation spot.
Or even money... who knows0 -
peacefrompaul wrote:Paul Andrews wrote:America does need to learn from other countries. While you guys have shown the world some amazing things and advanced the cause of mankind in many ways (I'm no USA hater - just a realist), there comes a time when you really as a country need to take a look at what some other countries are doing and learn from them. Unfortunately the vested interest groups and corporations who also control the media, and often what you can and cannot learn in school, will hold you guys back for their own personal gain. Watching some of the USA style politics and media styles slipping into our culture is frightening, because while it brings results fore the interest groups, it does nothing for the population.
Food regulation, healthcare, drug laws, the justice system, gun laws are prime examples of thing you guys need to research from other nations and compare with your own, and work out who exactly benefits from the status quo in the USA, because from where I sit, it rarely looks like it is the general population who is benefiting - more often huge corporations and politicians. This is not to say we have it 100% either, and not that you guys do not have much to teach the world, but we are all being sold a rat's arse as a wedding ring by our leaders and corporations these days and only by education, rational informed debate and the willingness to try different options will people regain control over their lives. Government regulation should be a conduit for people to have control (government by the people for the people) but too often it is painted as anti-people by the very same people who are using it to oppress or defraud you - mainly because these interest groups have corrupted the process and the general population is too apathetic to care.
Great point Paul, corporations and interest groups are a big problem when they get into politics. It's a place they shouldn't be... It's too bad our politicians listen to them and... maybe take a few tickets to a sporting event, concert, and/or a nice vacation spot.
Or even money... who knows
Who'd donate to a Super Pac unless there was some kind of benefit at the end of it all? Who'd donate to an election fund? Wy is Obama suddenly buying favour with Wall St when he got into power promising to reform it?
Look at Rupert Murdoch's corruption of the political process with his media empire - originally here in Australia, and then the UK and now in USA - where he has raised it to a dark art form.
What do lobbyists have that influences politicians so much? Is it cash, future favour, share options, threats of voting blocks? Dirty pictures of them with their interns? Who knows, but whatever it is, it stinks like a dead goat in the sun and stops government from doing things that actually benefit people.
These were the things protesters I talked with on the day I spent Zuccotti Park NYC in September highlighted - it was not all anarchists and loons (as the media liked to report). Government and corporations have become one in the same and the end result is unjust wars, mega rich getting richer, mega poor and middle class getting poorer and of course... pink slime
George Carlin ~ The American Dream
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLRQvK2- ... re=related0
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