If you are struggling with your faith, LEAVE THIS PLACE NOW....
Very few here will encourage you to grow in your faith....
Evolution and the existence of God are NOT mutually exclusive.
Evolution IS God's plan, in my very humble O.
Good luck to you man.
Thanks, but to all those who keep quoting this post, I am not seeking to grow IN my faith. I don't want encouragement as a Christian, I want to grow in knowledge and I want to know your views on the matter. I am not seeking re-assurance of my faith, as I said I now consider myself agnostic, I'm seeking whatever knowledge you guys can give me.
what about encouragement as a believer? not a Christian ...
what about freeing yourself from the box and just knowing God the confidant the creator
If you are struggling with your faith, LEAVE THIS PLACE NOW....
Very few here will encourage you to grow in your faith....
Evolution and the existence of God are NOT mutually exclusive.
Evolution IS God's plan, in my very humble O.
Good luck to you man.
Thanks, but to all those who keep quoting this post, I am not seeking to grow IN my faith. I don't want encouragement as a Christian, I want to grow in knowledge and I want to know your views on the matter. I am not seeking re-assurance of my faith, as I said I now consider myself agnostic, I'm seeking whatever knowledge you guys can give me.
what about encouragement as a believer? not a Christian ...
what about freeing yourself from the box and just knowing God the confidant the creator
I have a feeling he's using "christian" and "theist" interchangably. Many do. To some it's just a way of speaking.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I went through the same thing when I turned 18. My advice to you is, read and do research on all the religions/atheism/every belief. If you have questions about Christianity, do a thorough search for answers. It took me at least a few years to settle on what I believed after doing a ton of research and visiting various houses of worship. And if you want to PM me and talk about it, feel free. I've been there.
Chicago 2000 : Chicago 2003 : Chicago 2006 : Summerfest 2006 : Lollapalooza 2007 : Chicago 2009 : Noblesville (Indy) 2010 : PJ20 (East Troy) 2011 : Wrigley Field 2013 : Milwaukee (Yield) 2014 : Wrigley Field 2016
Cormac McCarthy, an author who is nearly 80, responds to questions about his faith and whether or not he believes in God with, "i'm still trying to figure that out".
Take your time, let your spiritual life be a journey, not a decision.
As I head towards my senior years and have given religion a great deal of thought I tend to agree with you. I think the world would be a far more peaceful place without it.
Cormac McCarthy, an author who is nearly 80, responds to questions about his faith and whether or not he believes in God with, "i'm still trying to figure that out".
Take your time, let your spiritual life be a journey, not a decision.
As I head towards my senior years and have given religion a great deal of thought I tend to agree with you. I think the world would be a far more peaceful place without it.
I used to think that too, as most conflicts in the mid east and radical anything is usually based in some type of religion. but think of how it evolved people back in the early days socially. christianity was almost like their first version of a real legal system. most religions teach tolerance and love, it's those that take it to extremes that do the harm.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,428
Thanks, but to all those who keep quoting this post, I am not seeking to grow IN my faith. I don't want encouragement as a Christian, I want to grow in knowledge and I want to know your views on the matter. I am not seeking re-assurance of my faith, as I said I now consider myself agnostic, I'm seeking whatever knowledge you guys can give me.
Good for you for wanting to learn more- I always find that commendable. The more knowledge you have, the more you grow in wisdom. The more critically you think, the wiser you are. And sometimes it's ok to just not know certain things. Life without mystery is boring enormous. And never listen to a guy that sounds like an aphorism machine.
I laugh at myself. That's also useful!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Thanks, but to all those who keep quoting this post, I am not seeking to grow IN my faith. I don't want encouragement as a Christian, I want to grow in knowledge and I want to know your views on the matter. I am not seeking re-assurance of my faith, as I said I now consider myself agnostic, I'm seeking whatever knowledge you guys can give me.
...
Don't place too much value on the advice people give you... including advice from me. The truth you'll find in people is more of a relative truth, than the absolute truth... that is, truth to them, from their perspective based upon their life experiences. It is NOT the absolute truth, regardless of what they might say. Answers such as, 'Yes, there is a God' or 'No, there is not a God'... those are relative truths. The Absolute truth to the question, 'Does God exist?' is... 'I don't know'.
Anyone who tells you the answer is absolutely 'Yes' or the answer is absolutely 'No', is giving you their 'BELIEF'... not the truth you are lookng for. You need to choose your own way through this life... with the knowledge that many of your questions will never get answered... leastwise, not in this life.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
In my opinion, Faith is where you do know with every bit of your being,
no question.
Some without Faith will say no one can know for sure this because they have not
experienced faith.
Like love, some do not believe in that either.
Or some don't conceive having a heart that directs our actions
our choices and feels rather than thinks, a basic instinct.
Life has it's answers to everything we question, listen with your heart....
As I head towards my senior years and have given religion a great deal of thought I tend to agree with you. I think the world would be a far more peaceful place without it.
I used to think that too, as most conflicts in the mid east and radical anything is usually based in some type of religion. but think of how it evolved people back in the early days socially. christianity was almost like their first version of a real legal system. most religions teach tolerance and love, it's those that take it to extremes that do the harm.
all religions preach love and tolerance it's a small pocked of each religion that take it to the extreme and interpret their teachings as something that hates agasint everything that isn't considered quote unquote 'family values' (in the 1940's ). In the modern age religion has NO place in government. Thats kind off topic.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
all religions preach love and tolerance it's a small pocked of each religion that take it to the extreme and interpret their teachings as something that hates agasint everything that isn't considered quote unquote 'family values' (in the 1940's ). In the modern age religion has NO place in government. Thats kind off topic.
all religions preach NOt only love and tolerence. a quick read of the bible, for example, will show you this.
people speak of the separation of church and state but i can tell you tim that even in so called egalitarian easy going australia, this has NEVER been the case, despite how seemingly 'invisible' it is.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
all religions preach love and tolerance it's a small pocked of each religion that take it to the extreme and interpret their teachings as something that hates agasint everything that isn't considered quote unquote 'family values' (in the 1940's ). In the modern age religion has NO place in government. Thats kind off topic.
all religions preach NOt only love and tolerence. a quick read of the bible, for example, will show you this.
people speak of the separation of church and state but i can tell you tim that even in so called egalitarian easy going australia, this has NEVER been the case, despite how seemingly 'invisible' it is.
agreed cate.. yes I'm as athest as they come and realize this all too well. I guess I was making a point that love and tolerance is what people believe religion should be about but as you see in the middle east and in america religion makes people go crazy. a little off topic
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
agreed cate.. yes I'm as athest as they come and realize this all too well. I guess I was making a point that love and tolerance is what people believe religion should be about but as you see in the middle east and in america religion makes people go crazy. a little off topic
please do not make the mistake that religious intolerence is limited to the middle east and america. as an australian you should know that next to the indigenous population, it was the catholic(irish) population who were most discriminated against during the foundation of our country. unable to worship in their own faith, they were persecuted and forced either to deny themselves by forgoing catholic mass or buckle under the anglican yoke. oh but yes they could also choose to worship catholically in secret.... but if they were caught....
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Maybe off topic speaking of the government and the role of religion which is NOT the belief
in God btw ... but as it has been brought up....
in my opinion
the role is there because of power and money which is
what government is ... we'd like to believe it is otherwise.
So of course religion/ The Church is involved to protect it's interests and use it's power.
In my perfect world God would have nothing to do with government.
I think we know that countries are ruled by those with money and the power that goes with it...
often behind the scenes.... this from the beginning.
The key is to follow whatever your heart and mind truly tell you. I grew up Jewish, but far from overly religious. I went to Sunday school, and the temple on high holidays, but that was about it. I began to realize I could question my faith right around the time my sister went to college and completely abandoned it. I was around 14. Much to the dismay of my father a few years later, I too decided it was not for me. None of it made any sense to me anymore. I didn't believe in any of it anymore and quite frankly it started to just appear silly to me. Old folklore, the man in the sky, arks and creation in 7 days? No thanks. I decided to be ok with not having answers to everything. Instead of falling back on "god did it", I was ok just saying "I don't know, and that's fine with me".
To this day (I'm 35 now), I haven't looked back. This has worked for me. Whether or not it works for you is up to you. If you truly question your faith and decide to keep it, or abandon it, or find another one...all the more power to you. Just make sure it's a choice and you are comfortable with it. Some people need religion, others do not. I do not, and my life has been just fine.
I still find the whole idea of religion rather amusing, and quite frankly scary as well. But that's just how I see it.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
The key is to follow whatever your heart and mind truly tell you. I grew up Jewish, but far from overly religious. I went to Sunday school, and the temple on high holidays, but that was about it. I began to realize I could question my faith right around the time my sister went to college and completely abandoned it. I was around 14. Much to the dismay of my father a few years later, I too decided it was not for me. None of it made any sense to me anymore. I didn't believe in any of it anymore and quite frankly it started to just appear silly to me. Old folklore, the man in the sky, arks and creation in 7 days? No thanks. I decided to be ok with not having answers to everything. Instead of falling back on "god did it", I was ok just saying "I don't know, and that's fine with me".
To this day (I'm 35 now), I haven't looked back. This has worked for me. Whether or not it works for you is up to you. If you truly question your faith and decide to keep it, or abandon it, or find another one...all the more power to you. Just make sure it's a choice and you are comfortable with it. Some people need religion, others do not. I do not, and my life has been just fine.
I still find the whole idea of religion rather amusing, and quite frankly scary as well. But that's just how I see it.
...
It think the fundamental problem with institutionalized religions is they all claim to have answers. These answers tend to benefit the religion.. whether it's getting money or gathering influence.
The fact of the matter is... maybe there just AREN'T any answers.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
So there is no meaning to life BinFrog? this how you feel then?
Yes I mentioned logic but logic tells me we will eventually know the answers we seek
individually and as a whole
The whole concept of "the meaning of life" is very similar to the reason religion came about in the first place: Trying to provide answers where there are only questions.
Why does life have to have a meaning? Or better yet: how can it have a meaning?
Life is what you make of it.
And logic does not "tell you" we will eventually have all the answers we seek. That is faith and/or belief.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
So there is no meaning to life BinFrog? this how you feel then?
Yes I mentioned logic but logic tells me we will eventually know the answers we seek
individually and as a whole
The whole concept of "the meaning of life" is very similar to the reason religion came about in the first place: Trying to provide answers where there are only questions.
Why does life have to have a meaning? Or better yet: how can it have a meaning?
Life is what you make of it.
And logic does not "tell you" we will eventually have all the answers we seek. That is faith and/or belief.
Actually no because humans are growing evolving learning becoming more intelligent
science provides more knowledge so it is in logic that I see answers coming for questions we have.
Life herein my opinion is more than what you make of it ...
it it is also what I make of it for and with you.
Can not deny the interaction reaction we live everyday and the meaning that provides.
There are those who are ok with status quo, there are those who question,
this all through our human history. By questioning alone we grow to find the answers,
history proves this also.
Faith for me is knowing and feeling God and my path which leads me to my individual answers.
I was forced to go to church and even get confirmed when I was a kid. Not sure if this is why I am such an advocate of Atheism and one of Richard Dawkins' biggest fans as well as all the other four hourseman and Neil De Grasse Tyson etc
Comments
what about freeing yourself from the box and just knowing God the confidant the creator
I have a feeling he's using "christian" and "theist" interchangably. Many do. To some it's just a way of speaking.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Take your time, let your spiritual life be a journey, not a decision.
beautiful!
I used to think that too, as most conflicts in the mid east and radical anything is usually based in some type of religion. but think of how it evolved people back in the early days socially. christianity was almost like their first version of a real legal system. most religions teach tolerance and love, it's those that take it to extremes that do the harm.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Good for you for wanting to learn more- I always find that commendable. The more knowledge you have, the more you grow in wisdom. The more critically you think, the wiser you are. And sometimes it's ok to just not know certain things. Life without mystery is boring enormous. And never listen to a guy that sounds like an aphorism machine.
I laugh at myself. That's also useful!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Don't place too much value on the advice people give you... including advice from me. The truth you'll find in people is more of a relative truth, than the absolute truth... that is, truth to them, from their perspective based upon their life experiences. It is NOT the absolute truth, regardless of what they might say. Answers such as, 'Yes, there is a God' or 'No, there is not a God'... those are relative truths. The Absolute truth to the question, 'Does God exist?' is... 'I don't know'.
Anyone who tells you the answer is absolutely 'Yes' or the answer is absolutely 'No', is giving you their 'BELIEF'... not the truth you are lookng for. You need to choose your own way through this life... with the knowledge that many of your questions will never get answered... leastwise, not in this life.
Hail, Hail!!!
no question.
Some without Faith will say no one can know for sure this because they have not
experienced faith.
Like love, some do not believe in that either.
Or some don't conceive having a heart that directs our actions
our choices and feels rather than thinks, a basic instinct.
Life has it's answers to everything we question, listen with your heart....
faith < truth
FACT.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
all religions preach love and tolerance it's a small pocked of each religion that take it to the extreme and interpret their teachings as something that hates agasint everything that isn't considered quote unquote 'family values' (in the 1940's
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
all religions preach NOt only love and tolerence. a quick read of the bible, for example, will show you this.
people speak of the separation of church and state but i can tell you tim that even in so called egalitarian easy going australia, this has NEVER been the case, despite how seemingly 'invisible' it is.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
agreed cate.. yes I'm as athest as they come and realize this all too well. I guess I was making a point that love and tolerance is what people believe religion should be about but as you see in the middle east and in america religion makes people go crazy. a little off topic
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
please do not make the mistake that religious intolerence is limited to the middle east and america. as an australian you should know that next to the indigenous population, it was the catholic(irish) population who were most discriminated against during the foundation of our country. unable to worship in their own faith, they were persecuted and forced either to deny themselves by forgoing catholic mass or buckle under the anglican yoke. oh but yes they could also choose to worship catholically in secret.... but if they were caught....
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
in God btw ... but as it has been brought up....
in my opinion
the role is there because of power and money which is
what government is ... we'd like to believe it is otherwise.
So of course religion/ The Church is involved to protect it's interests and use it's power.
In my perfect world God would have nothing to do with government.
I think we know that countries are ruled by those with money and the power that goes with it...
often behind the scenes.... this from the beginning.
To this day (I'm 35 now), I haven't looked back. This has worked for me. Whether or not it works for you is up to you. If you truly question your faith and decide to keep it, or abandon it, or find another one...all the more power to you. Just make sure it's a choice and you are comfortable with it. Some people need religion, others do not. I do not, and my life has been just fine.
I still find the whole idea of religion rather amusing, and quite frankly scary as well. But that's just how I see it.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
It think the fundamental problem with institutionalized religions is they all claim to have answers. These answers tend to benefit the religion.. whether it's getting money or gathering influence.
The fact of the matter is... maybe there just AREN'T any answers.
Hail, Hail!!!
eventually
would this not be the meaning to life?
Huh?
cute avatar I always thought
the answer lies in a green beer
Every question has an answer. That doesn't mean we can or will ever know (or understand) the answer to every question.
This has nothing to do with the "meaning of life". It has to do with logic.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Yes I mentioned logic but logic tells me we will eventually know the answers we seek
individually and as a whole
The whole concept of "the meaning of life" is very similar to the reason religion came about in the first place: Trying to provide answers where there are only questions.
Why does life have to have a meaning? Or better yet: how can it have a meaning?
Life is what you make of it.
And logic does not "tell you" we will eventually have all the answers we seek. That is faith and/or belief.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
science provides more knowledge so it is in logic that I see answers coming for questions we have.
Life here in my opinion is more than what you make of it ...
it it is also what I make of it for and with you.
Can not deny the interaction reaction we live everyday and the meaning that provides.
There are those who are ok with status quo, there are those who question,
this all through our human history. By questioning alone we grow to find the answers,
history proves this also.
Faith for me is knowing and feeling God and my path which leads me to my
individual answers.
were raised in religion and force fed what to believe as children.
It is human nature to question indoctrination eventually ... yes?
If one can not relate their human experiences to the doctrine.
I was not raised this way , why I believe in God without the structure of any religion ...
free to be me and believe. It feels right.