Theism/Atheism. Help me.
binauralsounds182
Posts: 119
Hey guys, I'm 18 years old and have been raised a Christian all my life. I go to a Christian high school and have always attended church, so I am well versed in what the Bible has to say.
Recently though, I have really been struggling with my faith. I've been reading books by and watching videos of Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Lawrence Krauss, and Bertrand Russell. I am beginning to understand the science behind evolution and see it as very factual.
I'm basically agnostic as of now. It is very hard to shake off 18 years of indoctrination in 4 months. I was just wondering if anyone else has gone through a struggle such as this and would be willing to tell their story. Also, if you are a staunch atheist and are well educated on evolution please help me to understand why you are so confident in your belief. I cannot seem to come to grips with a few of the must puzzling questions that I can't seem to find an answer in evolution to.
Thanks to all who share and help me! I really believe that there is nothing more important in life than pursing the ultimate truth about matters such as these.
Recently though, I have really been struggling with my faith. I've been reading books by and watching videos of Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Lawrence Krauss, and Bertrand Russell. I am beginning to understand the science behind evolution and see it as very factual.
I'm basically agnostic as of now. It is very hard to shake off 18 years of indoctrination in 4 months. I was just wondering if anyone else has gone through a struggle such as this and would be willing to tell their story. Also, if you are a staunch atheist and are well educated on evolution please help me to understand why you are so confident in your belief. I cannot seem to come to grips with a few of the must puzzling questions that I can't seem to find an answer in evolution to.
Thanks to all who share and help me! I really believe that there is nothing more important in life than pursing the ultimate truth about matters such as these.
1st and only show so far:
Charlottesville, VA 10/29/2013
"He who forgets will be destined to remember."
Charlottesville, VA 10/29/2013
"He who forgets will be destined to remember."
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work it out
there is no need to "be" one thing or another
look at everything
we all go through changes in awareness that alter our perceptions
and challenge our beliefs
regardless of what they might be
its important to explore inward and outward
you could look the theory of creation from many angles and in many ways
you could look at theology combined with evolution...one does not necessarily contradict or rule out the other
you don't need to label your beliefs
you don't need to believe strictly one way or another
you can combine your past, your present and your future and come up with the right answer
be in no hurry
believe me it will change again and again and again throughput you life
just be true to yourself
that's what matters
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
Questioning you faith does not mean you are foresaking it. Take what you have learned so far and keep moving with it. All of life's questions were not answered in a book that was written a couple of thousand years ago... and you probably won't find God in there, either.
Look for God with an understanding that you may never find Him. Choose the path that you choose, because the path laid out by others is probably littered with their rubbish. Hopefully, you'll discover it's the journey that will matter.
Hail, Hail!!!
anyway, you have 60 more years in this all encompassing trip.
The first thing was, I learned to forgive myself. Then, I told myself, "Go ahead and do whatever you want, it's okay by me." Jack Handy
25 years ago, leprosy was known as the incurable, unstoppable judgement from God. I'm sure you've seen Ben Hur. Now we know it was just a bacterial infection, totally treatable and all because of research into the new "god's plague" which we called "the Grid," and then AIDS and now "HIV."
People once worshipped the moon as a god. 40 years ago we started walking on it.
Science hasn't explained everything becuase after billions of years of natural history, we've really only had a few centuries where we were truly free to try to understand it.
Seeing Kirk Cameron made a fool of himself explaining that he knows god exists because of the shape of a banana just shows how truly terrified he is of letting go of his faith that he's clung to like a life preserver.
(especially when the shape of a banana proves that the fruit that has a shape that makes It easier to hold and eat is more likely to survive when the fruit that's hard to get to doesn't. God has nothing to do with it.)
:shock: Really? I thought I'd heard it all.
But, I just don't believe it. I guess anything is possible but the things I have seen Christians do jut saddens me. The hatred towards homosexuals drives me nuts. I have friends that are homosexual and they're perfectly nice folks. A woman's right to choose... War....
There are things in other religions I don't care for either but I won't get into that.
Ultimately, choose for yourself. YOU are YOURSELF. Are you going to college? I've found that a big help to discover who I really am.... Though you don't have to go, I mean, it's just worked for me.
Have a great night
I wish I was kidding..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4
Thanks
I didn't abandon christianity because of the hypocrisy of the church or a small percentage of its clergy. I left it behind because it didn't help me find the answers I seek. I can't fathom a god that kills its own creations because they misbehave. I can't fathom a god that is all seeing and all knowing but is vengeful and demands we fear it. I also just can't fathom a god that is self aware.
to me, nature is god, simply because it is The Force (and no, not the Star Wars version). I'm not a tree hugger by any means. I don't believe in destiny or fate. I love my wife but I'm not naive enough to believe that we are soul mates and that it was pretty fucking lucky we happened to live 5 minutes away from each other. Like everyone else that gets married.
I am agnostic. there's nothing wrong with questioning your faith, even if that questioning ultimately leads you back to it. don't be swayed by negativity towards religion. religion is not bad. people are. no one group is bad. every group has bad apples. there's just more apples in that bunch than any other bunch, so there's bound to be more bad ones.
all I can say is look around you, feel what you see and hear. enjoy and take in every moment. don't get swayed by people telling you god is horrible or that you are horrible for not feeling god's presence. only you can decide that. don't let anyone talk down to you either way.
accept your confusion. that's life my friend. relish it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I agree with others... personally, I've doubted before.
But, I don't want to lead you down one path or another, I just want to offer some comments.... since you asked. First, maybe your problem is you have been taking the bible too literally? Maybe the message is good, and most stories are true, but in the Old Testament, for example, maybe there are a lot of stories/parables. Not trying to offend anyone who thinks they are true. Just saying, for someone like you, struggling here, maybe it's not all literal?
Anyway, personally, I don't see anything wrong with mixing religion or spirituality with evolution. Although I have no clue what your religious sect is, I don't see how you can't be both Christian and believe in evolution. I suppose it depends on the sect of Christianity. But, evolution seems to exist in my opinion. My question, is why does that mean God (or religion or spirituality) doesn't? I really don't see a connection whatsoever. Unless you think the bible is literal, particularly in the Old Testament, more particularly Genesis. Personally, I don't think the Old Testament is literal.
I don't think there are any simple answers on religion. In my opinion, atheism is "belief" in no higher-power. Belief is placing a bet. I just don't see how anyone could possibly make the decision to believe there's no higher power. It's not only risky, it's hard to fathom. Look at the ocean or the sky and tell me there's nothing bigger than us. But, let me elaborate further...
When I think of spirituality I think of time. When I think of time, I think of an origin. For me, that thought of an origin is inescapable. I believe the origin is God (but, call it/he/she what you will). I think time changes people/animals/everything. I think God is also time. So, I just don't see how anything that occurs inside the concept of time, needs to be considered outside of God (call it/he/she what you will). This includes evolution, if it exists (which I personally think it does). I also can't imagine any religion saying that good people of another religion can't be worthy of something larger.
Bored yet? Stop reading. You want more? You got it...
At the end of the day, I really think we all live in time, so we can't fathom what exists outside of time. Prior to our conception, we don't live in time. At our death, we don't live in time.
To me - God is the element that lives in both time and outside time. We are part of God before our life and after, unless we choose not to be. Each of us - regardless of the religion we're born into, the religion we choose, our location, our looks, our wealth, etc,... we all have the choice. We get free will. We choose. That's what life is.
To quote Led Zeppelin:
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run There's still time to change the road you're on.
...so take your time, there's no rush. No one knows for sure where we're going or if they are right or wrong with full certainty. In other words, we're all confused.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
Luckily, as I see it anyways, while my mom believed in God (and I guess my dad believed in Kami, I think... I never actually ever got to the bottom of what his beliefs were) it was never really 'forced' on me as a child, other than mentioning one existed and some other references to Christianity I definitely was closer to a blank canvass when locating myself on the spiritual radar.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that when I 'became' agnostic it was a simple transition, things didn't make sense to me and I felt that 'you just need to have faith' wasn't good enough. I quickly became atheist soon after.
I don't really know why I'm responding to this thread my post really wasn't helpful at all hahaha.
Not trying to persuade you or anything, but I know a lot of people have found it supportive to peek around in /r/atheism. Also, I saw this the other day while browsing.
Good luck in whatever you choose!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DKhc1pcDFM
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaeJf-Yi ... ure=relmfu
they are long but worth it,
it has dawkins, dennett, harris and hitchens sitting around talking, they don't always agree on there own bits but it really is fascinating.
secondly while im an athiest i don't think there is anything wrong with believing in some sort of higher power ala deism, and aslong as its not the ram it down peoples throats style of religion although as a group think thing i think religion in general is now harmful
for me I found ...
The ultimate truth is God.
God created evolution. Man created religion. You do not have to turn your back on God's
love if you are questioning religion or favoring science.
God is science we have not yet found...
most importantly find your way to happiness and love
everything else will fall in place
you have a long path ahead of you no need to rush
Enjoy!
If that is you in your avatar your music an inspiration, your talent, your gifts,
your creativity a connection to the beyond.
same here
born and raised southern baptist
my biggest problems with christianity are the so-called christians i've known
you must believe in the virgin birth and the resurrection
but the teachings of christ just fly out the fucking window
you do need to do what is right for you
all religions require a faith in something you cannot see or touch
and personally, i believe that they are all wrong
to believe that your religion and your god alone rules the universe(s) requires an enormous amount of faith and honestly, a little close-mindedness
questioning your god and your religion only means that you are growing
if your beliefs survive your education
then more power to you
if they don't, you will find the universe has secrets that will blow your mind beyond matthew mark luke and john
"what a long, strange trip it's been"
I was trying to put all my thoughts together and I realized Hugh pretty much said the exact same thing I would've said. Ask yourself these questions and talk about with your closest friends and family. I recall around 16-17 years old I felt a worl open up to me by conversing with others and soaking in the world around me.
This too ^^^
definitely take your time, dont settle on anything too early.
And Inlet, awesome LZ quote...very fitting.
Very few here will encourage you to grow in your faith....
Evolution and the existence of God are NOT mutually exclusive.
Evolution IS God's plan, in my very humble O.
Good luck to you man.
I LOVE this Pandi!
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
Actually, if I were you, I wouldn't look for advice here in the form of opinions and stories. I would just maintain an open mind, read a lot of objective material and maybe ask questions of people who aren't going to try and shove their beliefs down your throat. Preaching, I've found does not help you learn; you need to talk to people who will objectively explain why they believe without any pushiness. That will help you. Good luck to you on your journey!
Take about 5 oz of these and in about three hours you can ask God any questions you may have directly.
As a lifelong atheist, I fortunately did not have to struggle with de-programming religious beliefs. My very Catholic girlfriend did, but that was about a decade ago, and she is definitely still an atheist.
What I would recommend is not worrying about the answers you can't find or don't understand. That is the beauty of atheism. Despite what detractors say, atheism is the absence of dogma. I am not tied to what some book written thousands of years ago says. I read and learn as much as I can. I try to find as many different sources as I can. When new, verifiable information comes to light, I change my mind.
Dawkins actually addresses it in one of his books. It is called the God of Gaps. If there is something science can't fully explain, then people say, "well then it must be God". Well, not really. As others have cited, there are thousands of things we didn't know 50 years ago. How much more will we understand 50 years from now? It is immeasurable.
OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
Just trying to help
I would change "to grow in your faith" to "to think for yourself". there are enough people on both sides who think they are right no matter what. then there are those of us that admit we don't know, and can only offer words of encouragement along the way.
I would say sticking around here helps you learn alot about free thinking in general and the challenges you will face if you rely on other people to explain things to you.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSy1-Q_B ... plpp_video
ive never doubted my absence of faith... is that the same thing?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
yeah, we're such an evil bunch, telling a young man to stop being a little boy and actually think for himself.
So shameful.
Thanks, but to all those who keep quoting this post, I am not seeking to grow IN my faith. I don't want encouragement as a Christian, I want to grow in knowledge and I want to know your views on the matter. I am not seeking re-assurance of my faith, as I said I now consider myself agnostic, I'm seeking whatever knowledge you guys can give me.
Charlottesville, VA 10/29/2013
"He who forgets will be destined to remember."
i think that was your first mistake... seeking knowledge from us guys.
i cant give any advice beyond reading... A LOT... and weighing up what it is youre reading... come to your own conclusions.. and be ok with what it is you feel and think. but always have in mind this journey may quite possibly take the rest of your life.... there is no rush. oh and dont be afraid to change your mind.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say