Well, I think the difference is that PJ's music has a heart...and Mike plays like he has a heart.
This is why I disagree with everyone who's mentioning Slash as overrated. Maybe it's just me, but I think this is the way he plays, too.
I saw G n' R a week ago and they've got three really good guitarists in the band right now. DJ Ashba was the one who played most of Slash's leads. And while there was nothing wrong with his playing, it just wasn't right. I guess maybe there's a certain amount of sloppiness to the way Slash plays and Ashba played everything a little too perfectly.
Well, I think the difference is that PJ's music has a heart...and Mike plays like he has a heart.
This is why I disagree with everyone who's mentioning Slash as overrated. Maybe it's just me, but I think this is the way he plays, too.
I saw G n' R a week ago and they've got three really good guitarists in the band right now. DJ Ashba was the one who played most of Slash's leads. And while there was nothing wrong with his playing, it just wasn't right. I guess maybe there's a certain amount of sloppiness to the way Slash plays and Ashba played everything a little too perfectly.
I can't fathom any criticism of Slash's playing. He's an optimum blend of technical ability and soul,...he's a ridiculous guitarist. Joe Perry also, is a riff factory and clinically tight. Neither are Paul Gilbert in terms of theory and technique but who wants to listen to a virtuoso play scales at a machine gun's pace all night? Slash and Joe Perry get the credit the deserve for the most part.
Mike, however perfectly his recorded efforts serve the song, is horrible 9 out 10 times he improvises live....I wish he'd pack it in and just play what he recorded. He ruins Even Flow, Immortality and Yellow Ledbetter live - all of which, he's recorded fucking brilliant solos for - and every other song that gets extended for him to nonsensically fret wank (Porch, Rearviewmirror, Of the Earth) is a good song destroyed in my opinion.
It's largely, if not entirely down to the fact that I love the studio versions so much that Mike is the name that immediately springs to mind when I think "overrated". Sorry guys.
As far as Neil Young is concerned - he's a brilliant songwriter no question - but he should definitely give the solo sections a very wide birth.
Yes he pours his heart and soul into every note and makes it seem like every note his last note on earth, but if you take all that away and he's like ed vedder on guitar
Angus Young
boring as fuck. Been doing the same thing for 40 years.
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Yes he pours his heart and soul into every note and makes it seem like every note his last note on earth, but if you take all that away and he's like ed vedder on guitar
Angus Young
boring as fuck. Been doing the same thing for 40 years.
I wouldn't have said Bruce was rated so heavily that he was overrated.
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goldrush
everybody knows this is nowhere Posts: 7,549
Mike, however perfectly his recorded efforts serve the song, is horrible 9 out 10 times he improvises live....I wish he'd pack it in and just play what he recorded. He ruins Even Flow, Immortality and Yellow Ledbetter live - all of which, he's recorded fucking brilliant solos for - and every other song that gets extended for him to nonsensically fret wank (Porch, Rearviewmirror, Of the Earth) is a good song destroyed in my opinion.
Really, I love Mikes improv work, especially on Even Flow and to a lesser extent yellow ledbetter
I don't mean to offend anyone, a lot of what I say should be taken with a grain of salt... that said for most of you I'm a stranger on a computer on the other side of the world, don't give me that sort of power!
Mike, however perfectly his recorded efforts serve the song, is horrible 9 out 10 times he improvises live....I wish he'd pack it in and just play what he recorded. He ruins Even Flow, Immortality and Yellow Ledbetter live - all of which, he's recorded fucking brilliant solos for - and every other song that gets extended for him to nonsensically fret wank (Porch, Rearviewmirror, Of the Earth) is a good song destroyed in my opinion.
Really, I love Mikes improv work, especially on Even Flow and to a lesser extent yellow ledbetter
Whatever revs your engine I suppose. I just think that when the solo he's worked out in the studio is such a highlight of the song, noodling something incoherent is a bit like Vedder yodelling instead of singing the lyrics.
Cobain's a good guitarist just like Dennis Rodman is a good basketball player. Rodman wasn''t exactly graceful like Michael Jordan (and Kurt isn't exactly technically sound like Eric Clapton), but Rodman was good at what he did and so was Kurt.
Speaking of it might get loud, you can tell that neither Jack White or the Edge have any business being in the same room as Page.
Absolutely. That was an awesome idea for a documentary, but I wish they would have picked a couple other guys besides Edge and Jack White.
I'm wondering if they just couldn't get anyone else to participate.
Sticking with their theme of the different generations who could they have gotten that could stand up to Page? There's not anybody outside of his generation that A) has a body of work that can stand up to his and isn't gonna have that "Holy shit I'm in a room with Jimmy Page" feeling.
Absolutely. That was an awesome idea for a documentary, but I wish they would have picked a couple other guys besides Edge and Jack White.
I'm wondering if they just couldn't get anyone else to participate.
Sticking with their theme of the different generations who could they have gotten that could stand up to Page? There's not anybody outside of his generation that A) has a body of work that can stand up to his and isn't gonna have that "Holy shit I'm in a room with Jimmy Page" feeling.
Full disclosure...I didn't watch the film because 1) I can't stand Jack White and 2) I just couldn't get past the fact that they paired Page with those two guys.
But if they were going for a generational thing then yeah Page from the 60s/70s. For the 80s/90s I'd have gone with Slash (or hell anyone from a hair metal band would be better than The Edge ) and for the 2000s and beyond, they could have gone with that girl from Australia for the female perspective-- anyone but Jack White!
Cobain's a good guitarist just like Dennis Rodman is a good basketball player. Rodman wasn''t exactly graceful like Michael Jordan (and Kurt isn't exactly technically sound like Eric Clapton), but Rodman was good at what he did and so was Kurt.
Like!
Plus Cobain even mentioned in interviews, it's all about passion no matter how sloppy.
He put his heart into all he did.
He never wanted to be a virtuoso guitarist.
His skill was crafting brilliant music with power chords, not all guitarists, even the virtuoso's can craft melodies like he did.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Cobain's a good guitarist just like Dennis Rodman is a good basketball player. Rodman wasn''t exactly graceful like Michael Jordan (and Kurt isn't exactly technically sound like Eric Clapton), but Rodman was good at what he did and so was Kurt.
Like!
Plus Cobain even mentioned in interviews, it's all about passion no matter how sloppy.
He put his heart into all he did.
He never wanted to be a virtuoso guitarist.
His skill was crafting brilliant music with power chords, not all guitarists, even the virtuoso's can craft melodies like he did.
his skill was ripping off or borrowing from others.
And all you people saying Jack White are just crazy. :P
Not as crazy as the people saying Page. Again, how can someone that accomplished what he did with an electric or acoustic guitar in his hands ever be overrated? I admit he was sloppy live, but I think that's completely overblown from some serious down years with smack. I've listened to plenty of live Zeppelin and I've never thought his sloppiness took a whole lot away from the performances, and in his defense the guy was taking chances night in and night out that few guitarists are willing to take.
Seriously, his influence alone is enough to get him in the top 10, but you add the rest of what he offers and there's no argument to be made against him being hailed as one of the best ever.
The Edge. Not forgetting Kirk Hammet or any other metal band's two-bit widdly fret board wanker!
At the other end of the scale just to justify that, John Martyn, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Alex Lifeson, Omar Rodriguez, Rodrigo Y Gabriela, Martin Barre, Rory Gallagher, Ritchie Blackmore, Brian Setzer, Derek Trucks, Marc Ribot.
Compared to any of those Kirk Hammet sounds like two cats fighting in a helium filled dustbin.... Ugh, I hate the sounds he makes so much....
Like a book among the many on a shelf...
Dublin 02 Arena - 22/6/10. Belfast Odyssey Arena - 23/6/10. London Hyde Park - 25/6/10. Berlin Wuhlheide - 30/6/10.
Manchester MEN - 20/06/12. Manchester MEN - 21/06/12
And Fenway, you cant really mean that. You can dislike Page, but to say he is not that great is blasphemy.
Speaking of it might get loud, you can tell that neither Jack White or the Edge have any business being in the same room as Page.
Trey? WTF?
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Cobain's a good guitarist just like Dennis Rodman is a good basketball player. Rodman wasn''t exactly graceful like Michael Jordan (and Kurt isn't exactly technically sound like Eric Clapton), but Rodman was good at what he did and so was Kurt.
Like!
Plus Cobain even mentioned in interviews, it's all about passion no matter how sloppy.
He put his heart into all he did.
He never wanted to be a virtuoso guitarist.
His skill was crafting brilliant music with power chords, not all guitarists, even the virtuoso's can craft melodies like he did.
his skill was ripping off or borrowing from others.
All guitarists do that....
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
The Edge is over-rated. Tom Morello is over-rated. John Frusciante is really over-rated. Kurt Cobain is super over-rated, he actually is a really bad guitar player but he killed himself so you know where he falls on every greatest list. On this message board Prince is over-rated like hell. However the most over-rated guitar player of all-time is Slash.
So yeah, if your two biggest riffs are lifted from other bands, and you're famous cause of those riffs you are overrated. If Nirvana gave credit for these riffs it would be ok, but last time I looked at the Nevermind credits it said all music by Nirvana....
The only other rock band I can think of that did this better was Zeppelin.
Kurt was nothing but a pop star. He had hardly any musical talent or creativity. He was just the right image at the right time, and that sounds like pop culture to me.
And every time I hear "Oh he didnt want to be famous," I wanna puke. He did all those Rolling Stone interviews, and MTV appearances. He wanted the spotlight, just another media whore pop star.
And Fenway, you cant really mean that. You can dislike Page, but to say he is not that great is blasphemy.
Speaking of it might get loud, you can tell that neither Jack White or the Edge have any business being in the same room as Page.
Lacks creativity? lol
Perhaps you ignored his lyrics....
And whilst those songs may sound similar, they are far away from what Nirvana did, they are not exactly the same.
Ummm from Kurt's own admission, he ignored lyrics. he has been quoted as saying music first, lyrics second. but this isnt about his teenage poetry, this thread is about overrated guitarists. And since Kurt didnt write his most famous riffs and couldnt play beyond power chords and 4/4 timing, yet is somehow deemed a legend, he is overrated. I don't see how anyone can argue that.
Comments
The Edge
Shane Lee
I saw G n' R a week ago and they've got three really good guitarists in the band right now. DJ Ashba was the one who played most of Slash's leads. And while there was nothing wrong with his playing, it just wasn't right. I guess maybe there's a certain amount of sloppiness to the way Slash plays and Ashba played everything a little too perfectly.
I can't fathom any criticism of Slash's playing. He's an optimum blend of technical ability and soul,...he's a ridiculous guitarist. Joe Perry also, is a riff factory and clinically tight. Neither are Paul Gilbert in terms of theory and technique but who wants to listen to a virtuoso play scales at a machine gun's pace all night? Slash and Joe Perry get the credit the deserve for the most part.
Mike, however perfectly his recorded efforts serve the song, is horrible 9 out 10 times he improvises live....I wish he'd pack it in and just play what he recorded. He ruins Even Flow, Immortality and Yellow Ledbetter live - all of which, he's recorded fucking brilliant solos for - and every other song that gets extended for him to nonsensically fret wank (Porch, Rearviewmirror, Of the Earth) is a good song destroyed in my opinion.
It's largely, if not entirely down to the fact that I love the studio versions so much that Mike is the name that immediately springs to mind when I think "overrated". Sorry guys.
As far as Neil Young is concerned - he's a brilliant songwriter no question - but he should definitely give the solo sections a very wide birth.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I don't think he's really 'rated' outside the Porch.
Yes he pours his heart and soul into every note and makes it seem like every note his last note on earth, but if you take all that away and he's like ed vedder on guitar
Angus Young
boring as fuck. Been doing the same thing for 40 years.
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Absolutely. That was an awesome idea for a documentary, but I wish they would have picked a couple other guys besides Edge and Jack White.
I'm wondering if they just couldn't get anyone else to participate.
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
Really, I love Mikes improv work, especially on Even Flow and to a lesser extent yellow ledbetter
Whatever revs your engine I suppose. I just think that when the solo he's worked out in the studio is such a highlight of the song, noodling something incoherent is a bit like Vedder yodelling instead of singing the lyrics.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Sticking with their theme of the different generations who could they have gotten that could stand up to Page? There's not anybody outside of his generation that A) has a body of work that can stand up to his and
Full disclosure...I didn't watch the film because 1) I can't stand Jack White and 2) I just couldn't get past the fact that they paired Page with those two guys.
But if they were going for a generational thing then yeah Page from the 60s/70s. For the 80s/90s I'd have gone with Slash (or hell anyone from a hair metal band would be better than The Edge
Like!
Plus Cobain even mentioned in interviews, it's all about passion no matter how sloppy.
He put his heart into all he did.
He never wanted to be a virtuoso guitarist.
His skill was crafting brilliant music with power chords, not all guitarists, even the virtuoso's can craft melodies like he did.
Jack White
the Edge
Slash
Angus Young (#1 because it's all acting)
Trey whoeverthefuck from Phish
his skill was ripping off or borrowing from others.
One of the sloppiest guitar players ... can't really stand listening to Led Zeppelin.
And all you people saying Jack White are just crazy. :P
Not as crazy as the people saying Page. Again, how can someone that accomplished what he did with an electric or acoustic guitar in his hands ever be overrated? I admit he was sloppy live, but I think that's completely overblown from some serious down years with smack. I've listened to plenty of live Zeppelin and I've never thought his sloppiness took a whole lot away from the performances, and in his defense the guy was taking chances night in and night out that few guitarists are willing to take.
Seriously, his influence alone is enough to get him in the top 10, but you add the rest of what he offers and there's no argument to be made against him being hailed as one of the best ever.
At the other end of the scale just to justify that, John Martyn, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Alex Lifeson, Omar Rodriguez, Rodrigo Y Gabriela, Martin Barre, Rory Gallagher, Ritchie Blackmore, Brian Setzer, Derek Trucks, Marc Ribot.
Compared to any of those Kirk Hammet sounds like two cats fighting in a helium filled dustbin.... Ugh, I hate the sounds he makes so much....
Dublin 02 Arena - 22/6/10. Belfast Odyssey Arena - 23/6/10. London Hyde Park - 25/6/10. Berlin Wuhlheide - 30/6/10.
Manchester MEN - 20/06/12. Manchester MEN - 21/06/12
Trey? WTF?
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
All guitarists do that....
Not like Nirvana did, it's one thing to pay homage to bands you like and another to do something like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1U1Ue_5kq8
or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbldM7JEIeE
So yeah, if your two biggest riffs are lifted from other bands, and you're famous cause of those riffs you are overrated. If Nirvana gave credit for these riffs it would be ok, but last time I looked at the Nevermind credits it said all music by Nirvana....
The only other rock band I can think of that did this better was Zeppelin.
Kurt was nothing but a pop star. He had hardly any musical talent or creativity. He was just the right image at the right time, and that sounds like pop culture to me.
And every time I hear "Oh he didnt want to be famous," I wanna puke. He did all those Rolling Stone interviews, and MTV appearances. He wanted the spotlight, just another media whore pop star.
Perhaps you ignored his lyrics....
And whilst those songs may sound similar, they are far away from what Nirvana did, they are not exactly the same.
It kills people to admit Cobain stole riffs for two of Nirvana's most precious songs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlJ6LBp7_U4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uCSy67k16c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lWi1dGT9UY
If anything he's underrated because a lot of people want to dismiss the whole band due to the perceived following.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Ummm from Kurt's own admission, he ignored lyrics. he has been quoted as saying music first, lyrics second. but this isnt about his teenage poetry, this thread is about overrated guitarists. And since Kurt didnt write his most famous riffs and couldnt play beyond power chords and 4/4 timing, yet is somehow deemed a legend, he is overrated. I don't see how anyone can argue that.