All this for a book?

gimmesometruth27

Electric_Delta wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Electric_Delta wrote:

At no point did I excuse any type of American government policies regarding anything. The fact is, these people COMPLETELY overreacted to an accident and people were MURDERED. You are trying to rationalize murder and mob mentality. If these actions weren't barbaric, I don't know what is.

it is not an accident. failing to properly at least inquire as to what is the acceptable manner to dispose of a koran is negligence.

It's insensitive, I agree. However, it's no excuse to go killing and pillaging. Sorry, you can't rationalize murder.

we are talking about the military right? an institution based on respect and discipline, correct?

it is not the military's business to make mistakes. there is absolutely no excuse for this.

a simple google search could have prevented all of this.

this mistake has put soldiers' lives at risk yet AGAIN....

our military is better than that, and the world deserves better than an inept imperialistic superpower...


anymore our presence over there and the lack of empathy for the people of that country reminds me more of nero than uncle sam.

mr magoo is running things over there....

maj4e

Vitalogy Man wrote:

maj4e wrote:

If you take away the oil, or more accurately stop using it. They have ZERO power. They can jump and scream and do whatever they want and no one will give a shit. Seems like people on the right and left could get behind that.

Stop using oil?

:roll:

Ya, I can't believe why every American isn't behind this 100%...

:roll:
Back atcha. If we can stop importing oil these db's just go back to being insignificant as before.

Stop using their oil more specifically but you could probably have determined that if you had wanted to.

Electric_Delta

[quote/]
we are talking about the military right? an institution based on respect and discipline, correct?

it is not the military's business to make mistakes. there is absolutely no excuse for this.

a simple google search could have prevented all of this.

this mistake has put soldiers' lives at risk yet AGAIN....

our military is better than that, and the world deserves better than an inept imperialistic superpower...


anymore our presence over there and the lack of empathy for the people of that country reminds me more of nero than uncle sam.

mr magoo is running things over there....[/quote]

Would you feel the same outrage if a stack of Bibles was destroyed by accident?

By the way, it is regrettable this happened. Mistakes do happen on occasion. Destroying books is one thing, but turning your automatic rifle on two unsuspecting and innocent soldiers is something else.

Electric_Delta

maj4e wrote:

Vitalogy Man wrote:

maj4e wrote:

If you take away the oil, or more accurately stop using it. They have ZERO power. They can jump and scream and do whatever they want and no one will give a shit. Seems like people on the right and left could get behind that.

Stop using oil?

:roll:

Ya, I can't believe why every American isn't behind this 100%...

:roll:
Back atcha. If we can stop importing oil these db's just go back to being insignificant as before.

Stop using their oil more specifically but you could probably have determined that if you had wanted to.

Sorry. Obama stopped the Keystone Pipeline...and offshore drilling. Just further examples of his attempts to prop up the middle class he loves so much.

FiveB247x

We do all the time except we just call it different things... collateral damage or crime or the illusion of free will/choice carried to extremes. You claim the moral high ground cause this example is much more open and direct to more indirect and overt but when push comes to shove, it's all one in the same. Paying taxes you know will go to build weapons which get sold to human rights abusers and having people suffer or die is no better or worse then doing it directly yourself.. perhaps slight degrees of separation, but overall, all guilty of wrong-doing. Inherently this is what is wrong with our species, not solely that people will do or are capable of doing bad things to one another or for their own interests do bad things, but more importantly the masses who idly sit by and don't speak up or participate to stop the wrong-doing from occurring.

As for the "indefensible" part, that is merely a matter of choice and judgement. We call it justified when we execute mentally incapable people or when we lock up people for long periods for drugs or the million other very questionable practices. Not everything is as black and white as we'd like to make it and especially when we wag the finger at others while ignoring our own practices.

Electric_Delta wrote:

It's insensitive, I agree. However, it's no excuse to go killing and pillaging. Sorry, you can't rationalize murder.

Electric_Delta

FiveB247x wrote:

We do all the time except we just call it different things... collateral damage or crime or the illusion of free will/choice carried to extremes. You claim the moral high ground cause this example is much more open and direct to more indirect and overt but when push comes to shove, it's all one in the same. Paying taxes you know will go to build weapons which get sold to human rights abusers and having people suffer or die is no better or worse then doing it directly yourself.. perhaps slight degrees of separation, but overall, all guilty of wrong-doing. Inherently this is what is wrong with our species, not solely that people will do or are capable of doing bad things to one another or for their own interests do bad things, but more importantly the masses who idly sit by and don't speak up or participate to stop the wrong-doing from occurring.

As for the "indefensible" part, that is merely a matter of choice and judgement. We call it justified when we execute mentally incapable people or when we lock up people for long periods for drugs or the million other very questionable practices. Not everything is as black and white as we'd like to make it and especially when we wag the finger at others while ignoring our own practices.

Electric_Delta wrote:

It's insensitive, I agree. However, it's no excuse to go killing and pillaging. Sorry, you can't rationalize murder.

You are arguing largely in hypotheticals. The actions which actually took place THIS week, under THESE circumstances, were murderous and disgusting.

I hope you will at least agree to that much. If you don't, well I'm truly sorry to hear it.

gimmesometruth27

Electric_Delta wrote:

Would you feel the same outrage if a stack of Bibles was destroyed by accident?

By the way, it is regrettable this happened. Mistakes do happen on occasion. Destroying books is one thing, but turning your automatic rifle on two unsuspecting and innocent soldiers is something else.

no i would not feel the same way if it were a stack of bibles. the last time i checked, we have a majority christian army occupying the land of the majority muslim population. as such, their holy book should be respected in the same manner in which a guest should respect the house where he is staying.
the amount of disrespect we are showing for their land, their religion, their customs, and their culture is pretty much the same amount of respect that rick james showed eddie murphy's couch. and it is repeated over and over and over and over again like groundhog day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcJkhSUS ... re=related

the us military is at fault in this situation. they put the soldiers there. they will not leave there even though combat operations have ceased. they are the ones who botched the disposal of the books. and they are liable for any action taken by those that they offended.

FiveB247x

It's not hypothetical.. it's merely moral equivocation. I don't just point the finger at others for wrong doing, I also look in my own backyard, in the mirror and in the past record. Wagging the fingers doesn't fix or change anything but learning from it and making sure it doesn't happen again is what can come out of it. In this case, how can we prevent such things from occurring again.. perhaps not being in foreign nations where we are not welcome to begin with could be an obvious start?

Electric_Delta wrote:

You are arguing largely in hypotheticals. The actions which actually took place THIS week, under THESE circumstances, were murderous and disgusting.

I hope you will at least agree to that much. If you don't, well I'm truly sorry to hear it.

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Electric_Delta wrote:

Express their grievances? Is that code for excusing murder? Those books were destroyed by accident...

i am not excusing murder. i am just trying to see their side of things. you should maybe try it sometime.

i can understand their anger and their frustration and what the 10 year war and occupation and the us military constantly insulting their religion and down playing it.


true or false??

there have been numerous examples of the US military defacing or destroying the koran since the war started.

there have been numerous examples of the us military wasting muslim civilians in said war.

there have been numerous examples of implied or outright stated christian superiority from soldiers in the us military.

there have been numerous examples of disrespect shown to the people of afghanistan and their religion.

It's a book and you are excusing their behavior. If it was the bible in the us, you'd be signing a different tune. It is ridiculous and barbaric to call for killings over a burned book. Plain and simple, they are dangerous simpletons.

lukin2006

why burn it at all? everyone knows it will incite a negative reaction.

nothingman203

i wish i could add my $.02 on this topic.

gimmesometruth27

cincybearcat wrote:

It's a book and you are excusing their behavior. If it was the bible in the us, you'd be signing a different tune. It is ridiculous and barbaric to call for killings over a burned book. Plain and simple, they are dangerous simpletons.

is the bible just a book to you? personally i couldn't give a shit if someone burns a bible in america. would not bother me any. but that is based on my beliefs that throughout history more bad has been done in the name of that book than good.

i am not excusing their behavior. the bottom line is if we are stupid enough to make these mistakes then we deserve what happens to us. did they overreact in this particular situation? probably. but if you add this one on top of all of the other insults we have heaped on top of their country, their religion, and their customs, this is minor compared to what they could have done.

mikepegg44

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

It's a book and you are excusing their behavior. If it was the bible in the us, you'd be signing a different tune. It is ridiculous and barbaric to call for killings over a burned book. Plain and simple, they are dangerous simpletons.

is the bible just a book to you? personally i couldn't give a shit if someone burns a bible in america. would not bother me any. but that is based on my beliefs that throughout history more bad has been done in the name of that book than good.

i am not excusing their behavior. the bottom line is if we are stupid enough to make these mistakes then we deserve what happens to us. did they overreact in this particular situation? probably. but if you add this one on top of all of the other insults we have heaped on top of their country, their religion, and their customs, this is minor compared to what they could have done.

not to answer for CBC but i took his comment to mean, if a bunch of christians murdered and rioted because of the burning of the bible what would you say...

Religious zealots rioting over perceived purposeful desecration of the Koran/Quran...and the sky is blue and the water is wet.

When will we learn that this is the reaction...no matter what we have to say about whether they should or shouldn't do it...this is the reaction by the crazy end of Islam.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that maybe we should simply have kept the books next to the old pants no one wears...The book is important to them, and they (the zealots not all muslims) are dangerous...you wouldn't poke a tiger and only expect it to lick you

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

It's a book and you are excusing their behavior. If it was the bible in the us, you'd be signing a different tune. It is ridiculous and barbaric to call for killings over a burned book. Plain and simple, they are dangerous simpletons.

is the bible just a book to you? personally i couldn't give a shit if someone burns a bible in america. would not bother me any. but that is based on my beliefs that throughout history more bad has been done in the name of that book than good.

i am not excusing their behavior. the bottom line is if we are stupid enough to make these mistakes then we deserve what happens to us. did they overreact in this particular situation? probably. but if you add this one on top of all of the other insults we have heaped on top of their country, their religion, and their customs, this is minor compared to what they could have done.

Yes it is.

Probably overreact? Seriously? You need to check your compass.

cincybearcat

mikepegg44 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

It's a book and you are excusing their behavior. If it was the bible in the us, you'd be signing a different tune. It is ridiculous and barbaric to call for killings over a burned book. Plain and simple, they are dangerous simpletons.

is the bible just a book to you? personally i couldn't give a shit if someone burns a bible in america. would not bother me any. but that is based on my beliefs that throughout history more bad has been done in the name of that book than good.

i am not excusing their behavior. the bottom line is if we are stupid enough to make these mistakes then we deserve what happens to us. did they overreact in this particular situation? probably. but if you add this one on top of all of the other insults we have heaped on top of their country, their religion, and their customs, this is minor compared to what they could have done.

not to answer for CBC but i took his comment to mean, if a bunch of christians murdered and rioted because of the burning of the bible what would you say...

Religious zealots rioting over perceived purposeful desecration of the Koran/Quran...and the sky is blue and the water is wet.

When will we learn that this is the reaction...no matter what we have to say about whether they should or shouldn't do it...this is the reaction by the crazy end of Islam.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that maybe we should simply have kept the books next to the old pants no one wears...The book is important to them, and they (the zealots not all muslims) are dangerous...you wouldn't poke a tiger and only expect it to lick you

What you say is true in that we know what those religious nuts are like and we should be more careful because it only puts people's lives at risk...but the way it was handled after it happened is just as ridiculous and does make excuses for inexcusable behavior.

It is what it is. Dumb to burn 'em. Inexcusable to riot and kill people because of it.

mikepegg44

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

is the bible just a book to you? personally i couldn't give a shit if someone burns a bible in america. would not bother me any. but that is based on my beliefs that throughout history more bad has been done in the name of that book than good.

i am not excusing their behavior. the bottom line is if we are stupid enough to make these mistakes then we deserve what happens to us. did they overreact in this particular situation? probably. but if you add this one on top of all of the other insults we have heaped on top of their country, their religion, and their customs, this is minor compared to what they could have done.

not to answer for CBC but i took his comment to mean, if a bunch of christians murdered and rioted because of the burning of the bible what would you say...

Religious zealots rioting over perceived purposeful desecration of the Koran/Quran...and the sky is blue and the water is wet.

When will we learn that this is the reaction...no matter what we have to say about whether they should or shouldn't do it...this is the reaction by the crazy end of Islam.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that maybe we should simply have kept the books next to the old pants no one wears...The book is important to them, and they (the zealots not all muslims) are dangerous...you wouldn't poke a tiger and only expect it to lick you

What you say is true in that we know what those religious nuts are like and we should be more careful because it only puts people's lives at risk...but the way it was handled after it happened is just as ridiculous and does make excuses for inexcusable behavior.

It is what it is. Dumb to burn 'em. Inexcusable to riot and kill people because of it.

I completely agree

fuck

This thread has done a wonderful job of taking everything out of context. The rioting was not solely because of the burning of the book. How can no one see that this is pure pent-up rage from an OCCUPATION?? Yes, religious oppositional leaders clearly took advantage of this situation to inspire ignorant, religious civilians to rise up against the occupational force, but we all know where this is coming from, still. And it's NOT just from the accidental burning of Qur'ans or whatever you want to call it.

So, to answer the OP's question: NO, THIS IS NOT ALL FOR A BOOK. It is because of occupation, murder, political and cultural hegemony, religious persecution, and so on. Quit isolating these incidents, and quit thinking you can sit here and talk of an "Islamic Extremist" threat because some Muslims haven't been 'enlightened' yet as you Westerners who know what's what, and know the price of religious freedom. You guys don't know shit, this is all first world problems you are talking about. When Afghanistan - and several other Muslim countries - is not being bombed back into the Middle Ages by OUR troops and bombs, then we can sit here and discuss the political implications of book burning.

gimmesometruth27

who is more barbaric or idiotic, the people described in this thread, or the people rioting over fucking nike shoes??

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/ni ... 02536.html

Jason P

If I was fighting over there, I would just duct tape a bunch of Korans on me for body armor.

fuck

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

but that is based on my beliefs that throughout history more bad has been done in the name of that book than good.

how can you possibly know this? You don't appear to be a historian, and I doubt you could have possibly done all this research on your own. Additionally, how would one even judge that? What does it take, or mean to do 'good' or do 'bad'? And how would one know if it was truly in the name of that book? And, further, can one blame the book and the beliefs it espouses if an act is simply done in the name of it, and not necessarily because it advocates it?

It's easy to just say things, but do they make any sense?