All this for a book?

cincybearcat

"We should attack their military bases, their military convoys, we should kill their soldiers, arrest their invading soldiers, beat them up and give a kind of lesson to them that they never dare to insult the holy Quran," the message said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/23/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1


So, I get that burning a holy book is not good. But regardless which book it is, this is ridiculous. We'd probably be better off if we burned each and every "holy" book. When people take things this far, they are nothing but crazy bastards.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Agreed. I understand that the perspective comes from the fact that the burning of the book is more disrespecting the ideology than lighting fire to a binded bunch of paper with words.

Such intense radicalism is very scary. I have a lot to say about this topic, but I'll stop there- scary.

gimmesometruth27

cincybearcat wrote:

"We should attack their military bases, their military convoys, we should kill their soldiers, arrest their invading soldiers, beat them up and give a kind of lesson to them that they never dare to insult the holy Quran," the message said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/23/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1


So, I get that burning a holy book is not good. But regardless which book it is, this is ridiculous. We'd probably be better off if we burned each and every "holy" book. When people take things this far, they are nothing but crazy bastards.

this is the response to 10 years of war, 10 years of the american military occupation, 10 years of murdering civilians, 10 years of constant disprespect of islam by the american military. this is only going to get worse as time goes on. there have been countless reports of americans disrespecting the koran, going all the way back to the gitmo scandal with flushing it in the toilet.

is it so hard to ask the proper way to dispose of this holy book and dispose of it accordingly? from what i remember you are supposed to bury it on a holy site, like the grounds of a mosque or muslim cemetery so that nobody can trample upon it. i mean we could have avoided all of this by having some low level soldier stationed over there dig a fucking hole... better yet, why not donate the books to a local mosque where they can continue to be used by those that appreciate it and use it as it is meant to be used?

we are supposed to burn the american flag to properly dispose of it, and that act sparks controversy here, so it is no surprise to me that there is outrage over another koran burning..

FiveB247x

Just reiterates that we do not belong in these places and no matter our intentions (good, bad or indifferent), our actions or inactions merely fuel the fire (pun intended) for further hatred and problems.

cincybearcat wrote:

"We should attack their military bases, their military convoys, we should kill their soldiers, arrest their invading soldiers, beat them up and give a kind of lesson to them that they never dare to insult the holy Quran," the message said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/23/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1


So, I get that burning a holy book is not good. But regardless which book it is, this is ridiculous. We'd probably be better off if we burned each and every "holy" book. When people take things this far, they are nothing but crazy bastards.

maj4e

If you take away the oil, or more accurately stop using it. They have ZERO power. They can jump and scream and do whatever they want and no one will give a shit. Seems like people on the right and left could get behind that.

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

we are supposed to burn the american flag to properly dispose of it, and that act sparks controversy here, so it is no surprise to me that there is outrage over another koran burning..

So, when's the last time anyone called for people to kill others for burning the flag? C'mon.

It's a book. It's no different then burning the Catcher in the Rye. Except that book is actually awesome!!!

Religious fanatics have to go, all over the world. They can all go live together with Santorum.

blackredyellow

cincybearcat wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

we are supposed to burn the american flag to properly dispose of it, and that act sparks controversy here, so it is no surprise to me that there is outrage over another koran burning..

So, when's the last time anyone called for people to kill others for burning the flag? C'mon.

It's a book. It's no different then burning the Catcher in the Rye. Except that book is actually awesome!!!

Religious fanatics have to go, all over the world. They can all go live together with Santorum.

I caught some of this story on tv this morning, and apparently religious "leaders" were on bullhorns, instructing the protesters on what to do/chant, etc.

Like our extreme religious people (or politicians in general), they are just using it to solidify their base.It amazes me how often religion is used as a tool to control people, and those who are controlled either have no idea it's happening, or just don't care.

fuck

cincybearcat wrote:

It's a book. It's no different then burning the Catcher in the Rye. Except that book is actually awesome!!!

That would make sense. If the Catcher in the Rye was considered a holy book by many people. And, if those people had a country where such a book was the foundation of the religion in said country. And, if that country was invaded by us. And, if we killed and continue to kill civilians and occupy that country, and set up a phony government. And, if we invaded other countries where said religion was practiced and did the same disrespectful and illegal, inhumane murderous acts over and over again. And, if all of these actions was a symbol of our cultural hegemony. Yes, yes, it's all starting to make sense.

Where'd you learn your analogies? Christ.

Vitalogy Man

maj4e wrote:

If you take away the oil, or more accurately stop using it. They have ZERO power. They can jump and scream and do whatever they want and no one will give a shit. Seems like people on the right and left could get behind that.

Stop using oil?

:roll:

Ya, I can't believe why every American isn't behind this 100%...

Electric_Delta

cincybearcat wrote:

"We should attack their military bases, their military convoys, we should kill their soldiers, arrest their invading soldiers, beat them up and give a kind of lesson to them that they never dare to insult the holy Quran," the message said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/23/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1


So, I get that burning a holy book is not good. But regardless which book it is, this is ridiculous. We'd probably be better off if we burned each and every "holy" book. When people take things this far, they are nothing but crazy bastards.

Burn every holy book? That's a really naive thing to say.

These radical Muslims are about as close to barbarians as you can get. When they behead, rape, and repress Christians, you don't see other Christians across the globe doing this. Again, these people use stories like this as free license to kill and carry out radical ideological agendas.

Why does Obama and the rest of the lefties kowtow to these people when they act like this? In my estimation, his behavior actually makes us less safe in the West because it does nothing but embolden those who act in this manner.

Completely unacceptable. Where is the outrage? I'm sure the State Department will say nothing when they kill that Christian pastor Iran is using as a political pawn.

gimmesometruth27

Electric_Delta wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

"We should attack their military bases, their military convoys, we should kill their soldiers, arrest their invading soldiers, beat them up and give a kind of lesson to them that they never dare to insult the holy Quran," the message said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/23/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1


So, I get that burning a holy book is not good. But regardless which book it is, this is ridiculous. We'd probably be better off if we burned each and every "holy" book. When people take things this far, they are nothing but crazy bastards.

Burn every holy book? That's a really naive thing to say.

These radical Muslims are about as close to barbarians as you can get. When they behead, rape, and repress Christians, you don't see other Christians across the globe doing this. Again, these people use stories like this as free license to kill and carry out radical ideological agendas.

Why does Obama and the rest of the lefties kowtow to these people when they act like this? In my estimation, his behavior actually makes us less safe in the West because it does nothing but embolden those who act in this manner.

Completely unacceptable. Where is the outrage? I'm sure the State Department will say nothing when they kill that Christian pastor Iran is using as a political pawn.

lol, why is your book suddenly more holy than theirs?



he is not kowtowing to anyone.. he hears their concerns and tries to make it known to them that he respects thier opinion and their right to express their grievances. this is what leaders do.

Electric_Delta

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Electric_Delta wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

"We should attack their military bases, their military convoys, we should kill their soldiers, arrest their invading soldiers, beat them up and give a kind of lesson to them that they never dare to insult the holy Quran," the message said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/23/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1


So, I get that burning a holy book is not good. But regardless which book it is, this is ridiculous. We'd probably be better off if we burned each and every "holy" book. When people take things this far, they are nothing but crazy bastards.

Burn every holy book? That's a really naive thing to say.

These radical Muslims are about as close to barbarians as you can get. When they behead, rape, and repress Christians, you don't see other Christians across the globe doing this. Again, these people use stories like this as free license to kill and carry out radical ideological agendas.

Why does Obama and the rest of the lefties kowtow to these people when they act like this? In my estimation, his behavior actually makes us less safe in the West because it does nothing but embolden those who act in this manner.

Completely unacceptable. Where is the outrage? I'm sure the State Department will say nothing when they kill that Christian pastor Iran is using as a political pawn.

lol, why is your book suddenly more holy than theirs?



he is not kowtowing to anyone.. he hears their concerns and tries to make it known to them that he respects thier opinion and their right to express their grievances. this is what leaders do.

Express their grievances? Is that code for excusing murder? Those books were destroyed by accident...

FiveB247x

I certainly am not excusing the reactions of burning books but with that said, I find it rather funny how harshly you critique others as "close to barbarians as possible" yet many of the same practices have gone on in other religions throughout the centuries (even if not in the present time) or how easy it is to wag the finger at others while ignoring how we ourselves act in the world (home and abroad). We discriminate, we enable and start wars and back human rights abusers all for the sake of our own "safety" or greed. But let's just make that a moot point and go back to talking about how everyone else is so uncivil.

Electric_Delta wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

"We should attack their military bases, their military convoys, we should kill their soldiers, arrest their invading soldiers, beat them up and give a kind of lesson to them that they never dare to insult the holy Quran," the message said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/23/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1


So, I get that burning a holy book is not good. But regardless which book it is, this is ridiculous. We'd probably be better off if we burned each and every "holy" book. When people take things this far, they are nothing but crazy bastards.

Burn every holy book? That's a really naive thing to say.

These radical Muslims are about as close to barbarians as you can get. When they behead, rape, and repress Christians, you don't see other Christians across the globe doing this. Again, these people use stories like this as free license to kill and carry out radical ideological agendas.

Why does Obama and the rest of the lefties kowtow to these people when they act like this? In my estimation, his behavior actually makes us less safe in the West because it does nothing but embolden those who act in this manner.

Completely unacceptable. Where is the outrage? I'm sure the State Department will say nothing when they kill that Christian pastor Iran is using as a political pawn.

Electric_Delta

FiveB247x wrote:

I certainly am not excusing the reactions of burning books but with that said, I find it rather funny how harshly you critique others as "close to barbarians as possible" yet many of the same practices have gone on in other religions throughout the centuries (even if not in the present time) or how easy it is to wag the finger at others while ignoring how we ourselves act in the world (home and abroad). We discriminate, we and enable start wars and back human rights abusers all for the sake of our own "safety" or greed. But let's just make that a moot point and go back to talking about how everyone else is so uncivil.

Electric_Delta wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

"We should attack their military bases, their military convoys, we should kill their soldiers, arrest their invading soldiers, beat them up and give a kind of lesson to them that they never dare to insult the holy Quran," the message said.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/23/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1


So, I get that burning a holy book is not good. But regardless which book it is, this is ridiculous. We'd probably be better off if we burned each and every "holy" book. When people take things this far, they are nothing but crazy bastards.

Burn every holy book? That's a really naive thing to say.

These radical Muslims are about as close to barbarians as you can get. When they behead, rape, and repress Christians, you don't see other Christians across the globe doing this. Again, these people use stories like this as free license to kill and carry out radical ideological agendas.

Why does Obama and the rest of the lefties kowtow to these people when they act like this? In my estimation, his behavior actually makes us less safe in the West because it does nothing but embolden those who act in this manner.

Completely unacceptable. Where is the outrage? I'm sure the State Department will say nothing when they kill that Christian pastor Iran is using as a political pawn.

At no point did I excuse any type of American government policies regarding anything. The fact is, these people COMPLETELY overreacted to an accident and people were MURDERED. You are trying to rationalize murder and mob mentality. If these actions weren't barbaric, I don't know what is.

gimmesometruth27

Electric_Delta wrote:

Express their grievances? Is that code for excusing murder? Those books were destroyed by accident...

i am not excusing murder. i am just trying to see their side of things. you should maybe try it sometime.

i can understand their anger and their frustration and what the 10 year war and occupation and the us military constantly insulting their religion and down playing it.


true or false??

there have been numerous examples of the US military defacing or destroying the koran since the war started.

there have been numerous examples of the us military wasting muslim civilians in said war.

there have been numerous examples of implied or outright stated christian superiority from soldiers in the us military.

there have been numerous examples of disrespect shown to the people of afghanistan and their religion.

gimmesometruth27

Electric_Delta wrote:

At no point did I excuse any type of American government policies regarding anything. The fact is, these people COMPLETELY overreacted to an accident and people were MURDERED. You are trying to rationalize murder and mob mentality. If these actions weren't barbaric, I don't know what is.

it is not an accident. failing to properly at least inquire as to what is the acceptable manner to dispose of a koran is negligence.

FiveB247x

As I said, I am not defending their actions, but you seem to ignore the rest of the fact that through history you can fill in the some barbaric actions by other religions and simply because you're here and alive to talk about this one now, it is supposed to me something more or be relevant than others or something similar to this notion. The reality is if our species were as intellectually evolved as we'd hope, we wouldn't have the wars, discrimination, inequalities, hatreds and similar - but we're not. Instead we just go around pointing at whatever the other half does, thinks (rightly or wrongly) and tell them how bad or wrong they are in comparison and use it as a method to justify whatever actions we want to employ thereafter.. whether it's globalization, industrialization, proselytizing, colonialism, empire, exploitation or the many others. We naively think we can convert, conquer or wake up the world to our ways and this will in turn make everyone and thing into better things.. but in reality, the only thing we can control is ourselves and try and be a positive influence towards others in hopes they comply in kind for good things so avoidable dumb things can be avoided and not occur.

Electric_Delta wrote:

At no point did I excuse any type of American government policies regarding anything. The fact is, these people COMPLETELY overreacted to an accident and people were MURDERED. You are trying to rationalize murder and mob mentality. If these actions weren't barbaric, I don't know what is.

Jason P

So if a group of religious people try to pass a law requiring an ultrasound before an abortion it's OK to attack a faith but if another faith goes into full-scale riot because a book was accidentally burned we cannot judge?

Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue ...

Electric_Delta

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Electric_Delta wrote:

At no point did I excuse any type of American government policies regarding anything. The fact is, these people COMPLETELY overreacted to an accident and people were MURDERED. You are trying to rationalize murder and mob mentality. If these actions weren't barbaric, I don't know what is.

it is not an accident. failing to properly at least inquire as to what is the acceptable manner to dispose of a koran is negligence.

It's insensitive, I agree. However, it's no excuse to go killing and pillaging. Sorry, you can't rationalize murder.

Electric_Delta

FiveB247x wrote:

As I said, I am not defending their actions, but you seem to ignore the rest of the fact that through history you can fill in the some barbaric actions by other religions and simply because you're here and alive to talk about this one now, it is supposed to me something more or be relevant than others or something similar to this notion. The reality is if our species were as intellectually evolved as we'd hope, we wouldn't have the wars, discrimination, inequalities, hatreds and similar - but we're not. Instead we just go around pointing at whatever the other half does, thinks (rightly or wrongly) and tell them how bad or wrong they are in comparison and use it as a method to justify whatever actions we want to employ thereafter.. whether it's globalization, industrialization, proselytizing, colonialism, empire, exploitation or the many others. We naively think we can convert, conquer or wake up the world to our ways and this will in turn make everyone and thing into better things.. but in reality, the only thing we can control is ourselves and try and be a positive influence towards others in hopes they comply in kind for good things so avoidable dumb things can be avoided and not occur.

Electric_Delta wrote:

At no point did I excuse any type of American government policies regarding anything. The fact is, these people COMPLETELY overreacted to an accident and people were MURDERED. You are trying to rationalize murder and mob mentality. If these actions weren't barbaric, I don't know what is.

Okay, countries and people through history have done bad things. This week, some people were murdered over an accident. That's what we're discussing. Let's not whitewash and rationalize this. This is indefensible.

Electric_Delta

Jason P wrote:

So if a group of religious people try to pass a law requiring an ultrasound before an abortion it's OK to attack a faith but if another faith goes into full-scale riot because a book was accidentally burned we cannot judge?

Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue ...

Hope you aren't surprised.

gimmesometruth27

Electric_Delta wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Electric_Delta wrote:

At no point did I excuse any type of American government policies regarding anything. The fact is, these people COMPLETELY overreacted to an accident and people were MURDERED. You are trying to rationalize murder and mob mentality. If these actions weren't barbaric, I don't know what is.

it is not an accident. failing to properly at least inquire as to what is the acceptable manner to dispose of a koran is negligence.

It's insensitive, I agree. However, it's no excuse to go killing and pillaging. Sorry, you can't rationalize murder.

we are talking about the military right? an institution based on respect and discipline, correct?

it is not the military's business to make mistakes. there is absolutely no excuse for this.

a simple google search could have prevented all of this.

this mistake has put soldiers' lives at risk yet AGAIN....

our military is better than that, and the world deserves better than an inept imperialistic superpower...


anymore our presence over there and the lack of empathy for the people of that country reminds me more of nero than uncle sam.

mr magoo is running things over there....

maj4e

Vitalogy Man wrote:

maj4e wrote:

If you take away the oil, or more accurately stop using it. They have ZERO power. They can jump and scream and do whatever they want and no one will give a shit. Seems like people on the right and left could get behind that.

Stop using oil?

:roll:

Ya, I can't believe why every American isn't behind this 100%...

:roll:
Back atcha. If we can stop importing oil these db's just go back to being insignificant as before.

Stop using their oil more specifically but you could probably have determined that if you had wanted to.

Electric_Delta

[quote/]
we are talking about the military right? an institution based on respect and discipline, correct?

it is not the military's business to make mistakes. there is absolutely no excuse for this.

a simple google search could have prevented all of this.

this mistake has put soldiers' lives at risk yet AGAIN....

our military is better than that, and the world deserves better than an inept imperialistic superpower...


anymore our presence over there and the lack of empathy for the people of that country reminds me more of nero than uncle sam.

mr magoo is running things over there....[/quote]

Would you feel the same outrage if a stack of Bibles was destroyed by accident?

By the way, it is regrettable this happened. Mistakes do happen on occasion. Destroying books is one thing, but turning your automatic rifle on two unsuspecting and innocent soldiers is something else.

Electric_Delta

maj4e wrote:

Vitalogy Man wrote:

maj4e wrote:

If you take away the oil, or more accurately stop using it. They have ZERO power. They can jump and scream and do whatever they want and no one will give a shit. Seems like people on the right and left could get behind that.

Stop using oil?

:roll:

Ya, I can't believe why every American isn't behind this 100%...

:roll:
Back atcha. If we can stop importing oil these db's just go back to being insignificant as before.

Stop using their oil more specifically but you could probably have determined that if you had wanted to.

Sorry. Obama stopped the Keystone Pipeline...and offshore drilling. Just further examples of his attempts to prop up the middle class he loves so much.

FiveB247x

We do all the time except we just call it different things... collateral damage or crime or the illusion of free will/choice carried to extremes. You claim the moral high ground cause this example is much more open and direct to more indirect and overt but when push comes to shove, it's all one in the same. Paying taxes you know will go to build weapons which get sold to human rights abusers and having people suffer or die is no better or worse then doing it directly yourself.. perhaps slight degrees of separation, but overall, all guilty of wrong-doing. Inherently this is what is wrong with our species, not solely that people will do or are capable of doing bad things to one another or for their own interests do bad things, but more importantly the masses who idly sit by and don't speak up or participate to stop the wrong-doing from occurring.

As for the "indefensible" part, that is merely a matter of choice and judgement. We call it justified when we execute mentally incapable people or when we lock up people for long periods for drugs or the million other very questionable practices. Not everything is as black and white as we'd like to make it and especially when we wag the finger at others while ignoring our own practices.

Electric_Delta wrote:

It's insensitive, I agree. However, it's no excuse to go killing and pillaging. Sorry, you can't rationalize murder.

Electric_Delta

FiveB247x wrote:

We do all the time except we just call it different things... collateral damage or crime or the illusion of free will/choice carried to extremes. You claim the moral high ground cause this example is much more open and direct to more indirect and overt but when push comes to shove, it's all one in the same. Paying taxes you know will go to build weapons which get sold to human rights abusers and having people suffer or die is no better or worse then doing it directly yourself.. perhaps slight degrees of separation, but overall, all guilty of wrong-doing. Inherently this is what is wrong with our species, not solely that people will do or are capable of doing bad things to one another or for their own interests do bad things, but more importantly the masses who idly sit by and don't speak up or participate to stop the wrong-doing from occurring.

As for the "indefensible" part, that is merely a matter of choice and judgement. We call it justified when we execute mentally incapable people or when we lock up people for long periods for drugs or the million other very questionable practices. Not everything is as black and white as we'd like to make it and especially when we wag the finger at others while ignoring our own practices.

Electric_Delta wrote:

It's insensitive, I agree. However, it's no excuse to go killing and pillaging. Sorry, you can't rationalize murder.

You are arguing largely in hypotheticals. The actions which actually took place THIS week, under THESE circumstances, were murderous and disgusting.

I hope you will at least agree to that much. If you don't, well I'm truly sorry to hear it.

gimmesometruth27

Electric_Delta wrote:

Would you feel the same outrage if a stack of Bibles was destroyed by accident?

By the way, it is regrettable this happened. Mistakes do happen on occasion. Destroying books is one thing, but turning your automatic rifle on two unsuspecting and innocent soldiers is something else.

no i would not feel the same way if it were a stack of bibles. the last time i checked, we have a majority christian army occupying the land of the majority muslim population. as such, their holy book should be respected in the same manner in which a guest should respect the house where he is staying.
the amount of disrespect we are showing for their land, their religion, their customs, and their culture is pretty much the same amount of respect that rick james showed eddie murphy's couch. and it is repeated over and over and over and over again like groundhog day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcJkhSUS ... re=related

the us military is at fault in this situation. they put the soldiers there. they will not leave there even though combat operations have ceased. they are the ones who botched the disposal of the books. and they are liable for any action taken by those that they offended.

FiveB247x

It's not hypothetical.. it's merely moral equivocation. I don't just point the finger at others for wrong doing, I also look in my own backyard, in the mirror and in the past record. Wagging the fingers doesn't fix or change anything but learning from it and making sure it doesn't happen again is what can come out of it. In this case, how can we prevent such things from occurring again.. perhaps not being in foreign nations where we are not welcome to begin with could be an obvious start?

Electric_Delta wrote:

You are arguing largely in hypotheticals. The actions which actually took place THIS week, under THESE circumstances, were murderous and disgusting.

I hope you will at least agree to that much. If you don't, well I'm truly sorry to hear it.

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Electric_Delta wrote:

Express their grievances? Is that code for excusing murder? Those books were destroyed by accident...

i am not excusing murder. i am just trying to see their side of things. you should maybe try it sometime.

i can understand their anger and their frustration and what the 10 year war and occupation and the us military constantly insulting their religion and down playing it.


true or false??

there have been numerous examples of the US military defacing or destroying the koran since the war started.

there have been numerous examples of the us military wasting muslim civilians in said war.

there have been numerous examples of implied or outright stated christian superiority from soldiers in the us military.

there have been numerous examples of disrespect shown to the people of afghanistan and their religion.

It's a book and you are excusing their behavior. If it was the bible in the us, you'd be signing a different tune. It is ridiculous and barbaric to call for killings over a burned book. Plain and simple, they are dangerous simpletons.

lukin2006

why burn it at all? everyone knows it will incite a negative reaction.