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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 36,935
    Poncier said:
    mickeyrat said:
    There are absolutely teams who could use Kaepernick. My fucking team could've used him last year, I know that. 

    I also do not buy the "once Harbaugh left, he was done" argument. Is Jim Harbaugh Don Shula for Christ's sake? There are plenty of other capable OC's and head coaches who can find a way to utilize the guy's talent. 
    He's known for getting a lot out of QB's and called a quarterback whisperer.

    It's not hard to see that when he left the team really went to shit.  The whole Niners team overachieved with him there.
    He's hardly the only coach ever to be known for getting a lot out of his qb's. He had 3 good seasons as a coach in the NFL before hightailing it to Michigan. Big deal. 

    And 5 years later the team was in the Super Bowl again without him. 
    Without Kap too.

    EDIT: And with the better QB in Garapolo.
    what other personnel changes were made in that time?
     
    The main thing that changed was Harbaugh leaving in my eyes.  
    Joe Staley was the only 49er on the roster for both SB 47 and SB 54, so I'd say there was a tad more to it than Harbaugh leaving.
    Using one OL that stuck around isn't a very convincing argument.

    1-The team overachieved.  It's ok to say that and to admit that.  Teams do it all the time.
    2-Harbaugh left.  He saw the ship going down and had zero desire to try and right it because of management he dealt with in the upstairs.
    3-Kap isn't that good, see #1.
    4-Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl.  I repeat, Trent Dilfer.
    If he was such a good coach why did he leave when he saw the ship going down? He was 8-8 in his last year there too. You're giving this guy way too much credit.

    Kap is absolutely good enough to be a quarterback in the NFL. There is no disputing that. Had our fucking president not turned his peaceful protest into a rallying cry for his ignorant racist base, he would never have left. 


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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 23,905
    Poncier said:
    My argument is that the whole team changed form one SB appearance to the next, it wasn't just Harbaugh leaving. So what Harbaugh did there (and Kaepernick as well) has nothing to with the current success. Mickey asked what personnel changes were made, and you said the main change was Harbaugh leaving...the entire team has changed. 52 of 53 players.
    Yeah I mentioned that actually.

    I said "Well if you are a coach you get to pick your staff so all of Harbaughs guys are gone. Only Rathman remained."

    I was referring to when Harbaugh left though, not when they recently made it to the Superbowl.
  • cdthomas1981cdthomas1981 KCMO NativePosts: 1,477
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 23,905
    Poncier said:
    mickeyrat said:
    There are absolutely teams who could use Kaepernick. My fucking team could've used him last year, I know that. 

    I also do not buy the "once Harbaugh left, he was done" argument. Is Jim Harbaugh Don Shula for Christ's sake? There are plenty of other capable OC's and head coaches who can find a way to utilize the guy's talent. 
    He's known for getting a lot out of QB's and called a quarterback whisperer.

    It's not hard to see that when he left the team really went to shit.  The whole Niners team overachieved with him there.
    He's hardly the only coach ever to be known for getting a lot out of his qb's. He had 3 good seasons as a coach in the NFL before hightailing it to Michigan. Big deal. 

    And 5 years later the team was in the Super Bowl again without him. 
    Without Kap too.

    EDIT: And with the better QB in Garapolo.
    what other personnel changes were made in that time?
     
    The main thing that changed was Harbaugh leaving in my eyes.  
    Joe Staley was the only 49er on the roster for both SB 47 and SB 54, so I'd say there was a tad more to it than Harbaugh leaving.
    Using one OL that stuck around isn't a very convincing argument.

    1-The team overachieved.  It's ok to say that and to admit that.  Teams do it all the time.
    2-Harbaugh left.  He saw the ship going down and had zero desire to try and right it because of management he dealt with in the upstairs.
    3-Kap isn't that good, see #1.
    4-Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl.  I repeat, Trent Dilfer.
    If he was such a good coach why did he leave when he saw the ship going down? He was 8-8 in his last year there too. You're giving this guy way too much credit.

    Kap is absolutely good enough to be a quarterback in the NFL. There is no disputing that. Had our fucking president not turned his peaceful protest into a rallying cry for his ignorant racist base, he would never have left. 


    Harbaugh left because he couldn't get along with the niners management which is why the ship was going down AND his dream job came about in coaching Michigan.  This is well documented and no secret.

    Kap, the last 2 years showed signs of waning.  You could see that he wasn't the same.  He had flashes like all players do but he wasn't the same.

    If he comes back he will be a backup at best and I don't expect him to be a backup being away this long.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 23,905
    Trent Dilfer had arguably the best defense in the history of the sport on the other side of the ball.  Did Brian Billick make that big of a difference too?
    So did Flacco and Manning.  Difference was Manning was a QB w half an arm and still better than most of the league.

    My point was even bad QB's can win a Superbowl if the stars align.

    We can go on all day about bad QB's whom got 1 shot in the SB.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 23,905
    Oh and for the record I supported Kap from day 1.  Just wanted to put that out there.
  • cdthomas1981cdthomas1981 KCMO NativePosts: 1,477
    Oh and for the record I supported Kap from day 1.  Just wanted to put that out there.
    I'm not personally doubting your support for Kap, it's more of where I think he is as a football player.  That's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 23,905
    Oh and for the record I supported Kap from day 1.  Just wanted to put that out there.
    I'm not personally doubting your support for Kap, it's more of where I think he is as a football player.  That's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

    Yeah, I think that Tebow was banished from the league for what he did too though. I brought this up before.
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 11,039
    Oh and for the record I supported Kap from day 1.  Just wanted to put that out there.
    I'm not personally doubting your support for Kap, it's more of where I think he is as a football player.  That's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

    Yeah, I think that Tebow was banished from the league for what he did too though. I brought this up before.
    Lots of players get banished for sucking, Tebow isn't alone in that regard.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 23,905
    Poncier said:
    Oh and for the record I supported Kap from day 1.  Just wanted to put that out there.
    I'm not personally doubting your support for Kap, it's more of where I think he is as a football player.  That's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

    Yeah, I think that Tebow was banished from the league for what he did too though. I brought this up before.
    Lots of players get banished for sucking, Tebow isn't alone in that regard.
    lol.  He won saved their season, won a playoff game for the Broncos and then was let go the next year.  I am a Broncos fan so I watched when he came in and KEPT WINNING and defying all of the experts predictions.  His QBR stunk but he won.  I would have tried him for at least one more season.

    Then the poor bastard went to the Jets and they are well know for ruining QB's.
  • cdthomas1981cdthomas1981 KCMO NativePosts: 1,477
    Poncier said:
    Oh and for the record I supported Kap from day 1.  Just wanted to put that out there.
    I'm not personally doubting your support for Kap, it's more of where I think he is as a football player.  That's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

    Yeah, I think that Tebow was banished from the league for what he did too though. I brought this up before.
    Lots of players get banished for sucking, Tebow isn't alone in that regard.
    lol.  He won saved their season, won a playoff game for the Broncos and then was let go the next year.  I am a Broncos fan so I watched when he came in and KEPT WINNING and defying all of the experts predictions.  His QBR stunk but he won.  I would have tried him for at least one more season.

    Then the poor bastard went to the Jets and they are well know for ruining QB's.
    Tebow’s style of play would not have sustained at the QB position.  He couldn’t throw an accurate ball more than 15-20 yards.  If you can’t stretch a defense eventually they will limit you within 15 yards.  Ask Alex Smith, as a Chiefs fan I saw a lot of that and he was a waaaay better QB than Tebow.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 36,935
    edited June 19
    Poncier said:
    mickeyrat said:
    There are absolutely teams who could use Kaepernick. My fucking team could've used him last year, I know that. 

    I also do not buy the "once Harbaugh left, he was done" argument. Is Jim Harbaugh Don Shula for Christ's sake? There are plenty of other capable OC's and head coaches who can find a way to utilize the guy's talent. 
    He's known for getting a lot out of QB's and called a quarterback whisperer.

    It's not hard to see that when he left the team really went to shit.  The whole Niners team overachieved with him there.
    He's hardly the only coach ever to be known for getting a lot out of his qb's. He had 3 good seasons as a coach in the NFL before hightailing it to Michigan. Big deal. 

    And 5 years later the team was in the Super Bowl again without him. 
    Without Kap too.

    EDIT: And with the better QB in Garapolo.
    what other personnel changes were made in that time?
     
    The main thing that changed was Harbaugh leaving in my eyes.  
    Joe Staley was the only 49er on the roster for both SB 47 and SB 54, so I'd say there was a tad more to it than Harbaugh leaving.
    Using one OL that stuck around isn't a very convincing argument.

    1-The team overachieved.  It's ok to say that and to admit that.  Teams do it all the time.
    2-Harbaugh left.  He saw the ship going down and had zero desire to try and right it because of management he dealt with in the upstairs.
    3-Kap isn't that good, see #1.
    4-Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl.  I repeat, Trent Dilfer.
    If he was such a good coach why did he leave when he saw the ship going down? He was 8-8 in his last year there too. You're giving this guy way too much credit.

    Kap is absolutely good enough to be a quarterback in the NFL. There is no disputing that. Had our fucking president not turned his peaceful protest into a rallying cry for his ignorant racist base, he would never have left. 


    Harbaugh left because he couldn't get along with the niners management which is why the ship was going down AND his dream job came about in coaching Michigan.  This is well documented and no secret.

    Kap, the last 2 years showed signs of waning.  You could see that he wasn't the same.  He had flashes like all players do but he wasn't the same.

    If he comes back he will be a backup at best and I don't expect him to be a backup being away this long.
    How many backups over the last 2 or 3 years are better than Kaepernick?

    I'll answer for you: not many. There is no good reason for him not being in the NFL for the last few years.

    As far as your "showed signs of waning," despite that he still put up numbers worthy of a mediocre quarterback in his last season. And his team had zero talent. And he was only 29. Under normal circumstances, plenty of teams would've lined up to try and salvage his career. 



    The only reason Kap has been out of the league the last three years is Donald Trump. That's it. 
    Post edited by The Juggler on
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 23,905
    Poncier said:
    Oh and for the record I supported Kap from day 1.  Just wanted to put that out there.
    I'm not personally doubting your support for Kap, it's more of where I think he is as a football player.  That's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

    Yeah, I think that Tebow was banished from the league for what he did too though. I brought this up before.
    Lots of players get banished for sucking, Tebow isn't alone in that regard.
    lol.  He won saved their season, won a playoff game for the Broncos and then was let go the next year.  I am a Broncos fan so I watched when he came in and KEPT WINNING and defying all of the experts predictions.  His QBR stunk but he won.  I would have tried him for at least one more season.

    Then the poor bastard went to the Jets and they are well know for ruining QB's.
    Tebow’s style of play would not have sustained at the QB position.  He couldn’t throw an accurate ball more than 15-20 yards.  If you can’t stretch a defense eventually they will limit you within 15 yards.  Ask Alex Smith, as a Chiefs fan I saw a lot of that and he was a waaaay better QB than Tebow.
    Players have made careers out of it though.  Jay Fiedler is one that comes to mind.  He really stunk though.  Dude went to my HS and broke all sorts of Ivy League records.
  • cdthomas1981cdthomas1981 KCMO NativePosts: 1,477
    Poncier said:
    Oh and for the record I supported Kap from day 1.  Just wanted to put that out there.
    I'm not personally doubting your support for Kap, it's more of where I think he is as a football player.  That's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

    Yeah, I think that Tebow was banished from the league for what he did too though. I brought this up before.
    Lots of players get banished for sucking, Tebow isn't alone in that regard.
    lol.  He won saved their season, won a playoff game for the Broncos and then was let go the next year.  I am a Broncos fan so I watched when he came in and KEPT WINNING and defying all of the experts predictions.  His QBR stunk but he won.  I would have tried him for at least one more season.

    Then the poor bastard went to the Jets and they are well know for ruining QB's.
    Tebow’s style of play would not have sustained at the QB position.  He couldn’t throw an accurate ball more than 15-20 yards.  If you can’t stretch a defense eventually they will limit you within 15 yards.  Ask Alex Smith, as a Chiefs fan I saw a lot of that and he was a waaaay better QB than Tebow.
    Players have made careers out of it though.  Jay Fiedler is one that comes to mind.  He really stunk though.  Dude went to my HS and broke all sorts of Ivy League records.
    Tebow couldn't throw downfield unless his receiver was HS open though.  Even the game-winner to Thomas against Pittsburgh in the playoffs was a throw a freshman QB in college should make.  In 2011, they won the AFC West with an 8-8 record, which was a very mediocre division that year.  Defensive coordinators would have caught up to him in 2012, had he gotten the chance to start.  I don't think he would have had much success trying to win games 10-7 every week after his 2011 performance.

  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 36,935
    Poncier said:
    Oh and for the record I supported Kap from day 1.  Just wanted to put that out there.
    I'm not personally doubting your support for Kap, it's more of where I think he is as a football player.  That's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

    Yeah, I think that Tebow was banished from the league for what he did too though. I brought this up before.
    Lots of players get banished for sucking, Tebow isn't alone in that regard.
    lol.  He won saved their season, won a playoff game for the Broncos and then was let go the next year.  I am a Broncos fan so I watched when he came in and KEPT WINNING and defying all of the experts predictions.  His QBR stunk but he won.  I would have tried him for at least one more season.

    Then the poor bastard went to the Jets and they are well know for ruining QB's.
    Tebow’s style of play would not have sustained at the QB position.  He couldn’t throw an accurate ball more than 15-20 yards.  If you can’t stretch a defense eventually they will limit you within 15 yards.  Ask Alex Smith, as a Chiefs fan I saw a lot of that and he was a waaaay better QB than Tebow.
    Players have made careers out of it though.  Jay Fiedler is one that comes to mind.  He really stunk though.  Dude went to my HS and broke all sorts of Ivy League records.
    Tebow couldn't throw downfield unless his receiver was HS open though.  Even the game-winner to Thomas against Pittsburgh in the playoffs was a throw a freshman QB in college should make.  In 2011, they won the AFC West with an 8-8 record, which was a very mediocre division that year.  Defensive coordinators would have caught up to him in 2012, had he gotten the chance to start.  I don't think he would have had much success trying to win games 10-7 every week after his 2011 performance.

    Kap >>>>> Tebow
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  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 19,809
    Poncier said:
    Oh and for the record I supported Kap from day 1.  Just wanted to put that out there.
    I'm not personally doubting your support for Kap, it's more of where I think he is as a football player.  That's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

    Yeah, I think that Tebow was banished from the league for what he did too though. I brought this up before.
    Lots of players get banished for sucking, Tebow isn't alone in that regard.
    lol.  He won saved their season, won a playoff game for the Broncos and then was let go the next year.  I am a Broncos fan so I watched when he came in and KEPT WINNING and defying all of the experts predictions.  His QBR stunk but he won.  I would have tried him for at least one more season.

    Then the poor bastard went to the Jets and they are well know for ruining QB's.
    Tebow’s style of play would not have sustained at the QB position.  He couldn’t throw an accurate ball more than 15-20 yards.  If you can’t stretch a defense eventually they will limit you within 15 yards.  Ask Alex Smith, as a Chiefs fan I saw a lot of that and he was a waaaay better QB than Tebow.
    Players have made careers out of it though.  Jay Fiedler is one that comes to mind.  He really stunk though.  Dude went to my HS and broke all sorts of Ivy League records.
    Tebow couldn't throw downfield unless his receiver was HS open though.  Even the game-winner to Thomas against Pittsburgh in the playoffs was a throw a freshman QB in college should make.  In 2011, they won the AFC West with an 8-8 record, which was a very mediocre division that year.  Defensive coordinators would have caught up to him in 2012, had he gotten the chance to start.  I don't think he would have had much success trying to win games 10-7 every week after his 2011 performance.

    Kap >>>>> Tebow

    x250
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 23,905
    Poncier said:
    Oh and for the record I supported Kap from day 1.  Just wanted to put that out there.
    I'm not personally doubting your support for Kap, it's more of where I think he is as a football player.  That's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

    Yeah, I think that Tebow was banished from the league for what he did too though. I brought this up before.
    Lots of players get banished for sucking, Tebow isn't alone in that regard.
    lol.  He won saved their season, won a playoff game for the Broncos and then was let go the next year.  I am a Broncos fan so I watched when he came in and KEPT WINNING and defying all of the experts predictions.  His QBR stunk but he won.  I would have tried him for at least one more season.

    Then the poor bastard went to the Jets and they are well know for ruining QB's.
    Tebow’s style of play would not have sustained at the QB position.  He couldn’t throw an accurate ball more than 15-20 yards.  If you can’t stretch a defense eventually they will limit you within 15 yards.  Ask Alex Smith, as a Chiefs fan I saw a lot of that and he was a waaaay better QB than Tebow.
    Players have made careers out of it though.  Jay Fiedler is one that comes to mind.  He really stunk though.  Dude went to my HS and broke all sorts of Ivy League records.
    Tebow couldn't throw downfield unless his receiver was HS open though.  Even the game-winner to Thomas against Pittsburgh in the playoffs was a throw a freshman QB in college should make.  In 2011, they won the AFC West with an 8-8 record, which was a very mediocre division that year.  Defensive coordinators would have caught up to him in 2012, had he gotten the chance to start.  I don't think he would have had much success trying to win games 10-7 every week after his 2011 performance.

    No credit for that dime he threw huh?

    Damn you guys are brutal.
  • cdthomas1981cdthomas1981 KCMO NativePosts: 1,477
    Poncier said:
    Oh and for the record I supported Kap from day 1.  Just wanted to put that out there.
    I'm not personally doubting your support for Kap, it's more of where I think he is as a football player.  That's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

    Yeah, I think that Tebow was banished from the league for what he did too though. I brought this up before.
    Lots of players get banished for sucking, Tebow isn't alone in that regard.
    lol.  He won saved their season, won a playoff game for the Broncos and then was let go the next year.  I am a Broncos fan so I watched when he came in and KEPT WINNING and defying all of the experts predictions.  His QBR stunk but he won.  I would have tried him for at least one more season.

    Then the poor bastard went to the Jets and they are well know for ruining QB's.
    Tebow’s style of play would not have sustained at the QB position.  He couldn’t throw an accurate ball more than 15-20 yards.  If you can’t stretch a defense eventually they will limit you within 15 yards.  Ask Alex Smith, as a Chiefs fan I saw a lot of that and he was a waaaay better QB than Tebow.
    Players have made careers out of it though.  Jay Fiedler is one that comes to mind.  He really stunk though.  Dude went to my HS and broke all sorts of Ivy League records.
    Tebow couldn't throw downfield unless his receiver was HS open though.  Even the game-winner to Thomas against Pittsburgh in the playoffs was a throw a freshman QB in college should make.  In 2011, they won the AFC West with an 8-8 record, which was a very mediocre division that year.  Defensive coordinators would have caught up to him in 2012, had he gotten the chance to start.  I don't think he would have had much success trying to win games 10-7 every week after his 2011 performance.

    No credit for that dime he threw huh?

    Damn you guys are brutal.
    A play-action fake post route, with Demarius Thomas behind the defense.  Travis Kelce could make that throw easily and he hadn’t played QB since HS.
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PAPosts: 33,186
    Cam Newtown to the Pats
    bf959b1f-9b77-457c-baf8-038776f33339_zps8a6a389d.jpg?t=1365722973
    8/28/98- Camden, NJ
    10/31/09- Philly
    5/21/10- NYC
    9/2/12- Philly, PA
    7/19/13- Wrigley
    10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
    10/21/13- Philly, PA
    10/22/13- Philly, PA
    10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
    Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
    Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 10,361
    Cam Newtown to the Pats
    on the same day they were fined and docked a draft pick for cheating once again. i don't think it's a coincidence both were announced on the same day.  it's a shame the NFL doesn't have a 3 strikes and you're out rule.  3 times and counting disciplined for cheating now.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 36,935
    Cam Newtown to the Pats
    This is gonna be interesting...if they even play this year. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 9,147
    Jim Harbaugh blows!
    10 years in the 10club... 2010-2020 
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 9,147
    #bountygate
    10 years in the 10club... 2010-2020 
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 9,147
    Will Cam keep the #1?
    10 years in the 10club... 2010-2020 
  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 9,147
    10 years in the 10club... 2010-2020 
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 11,039
    ikiT said:
    Will Cam keep the #1?
    Belichick is assigning him #12.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 13,303

    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2

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