A great man who made a terrible mistake, if that one mistake defines him to some, so be it, but most people understand the impact he had on so many.
Making a mistake and deciding not to take legal action against a child molester or not EXACTLY the same thing.
Charles Manson wasn't a bad man either, he simply made some mistakes.
:wtf:
comparing joe paterno to charles manson. this guy has officially lost any and all credibility....not sure he had much of it to begin with though. :?
He was a good coach and probably the best in his field. He accomplished great things but if you choose self preservation over your moral obligations, people will only remember you by your deeply flawed character.
it came down to power and he lusted for it just as much as Sandusky lusted for Children.
He was a good coach and probably the best in his field. He accomplished great things but if you choose self preservation over your moral obligations, people will only remember you by your deeply flawed character.
it comes down to money and power and he lusted for it just as much as Sandusky lusted for Children.
with all due respect, you have no idea what the guy was thinking. he was a 76 year old man at the time. he followed the proper procedures.....but he should have done a lot more. he's admitted as much.
you're anger should be more focused on the man who actually committed these heinous acts and the higher ups at penn state who did nothing after paterno told them about it.
by the way--regarding money, paterno's salary was more in line with what mac and sun belt coaches made compared to what coaches in bcs conferences make. he left millions and millions of dollars on the table at penn state. guy lived in a modest house on campus and walked to work regularly. so that's another part of your argument that is misguided.
He was a good coach and probably the best in his field. He accomplished great things but if you choose self preservation over your moral obligations, people will only remember you by your deeply flawed character.
it comes down to money and power and he lusted for it just as much as Sandusky lusted for Children.
with all due respect, you have no idea what the guy was thinking. he was a 76 year old man at the time. he followed the proper procedures.....but he should have done a lot more. he's admitted as much.
you're anger should be more focused on the man who actually committed these heinous acts and the higher ups at penn state who did nothing after paterno told them about it.
everyone involved should have done more and are equally culpable. As Ive pointed out multiple times, its not like reporting the behavior to others absolves one of guilt. Paterno, the AD, the president, Mcqueary all met, interacted with, and worked with an abuser after the allegations were passed on. Doesnt sound like anyone followed up at all. Wouldnt anyone be curious. Wouldnt paterno be curious to ask Mcqueary you know, a week or two later, seeing and knowing sandusky was still at the university, what happened, and why he was still around? Wouldnt mcqueary want to talk to paterno about why sandusky was still on campus? wouldnt both of them want to talk to university officials about why, especially mcqueary who had seen the abuse first hand, why sandusky was still on campus? My understanding of the issue is that there were two groups of people in this case. some reported the abuse, and then did absolutely nothing at all afterwords. didnt follow up and see what happened, and didnt blink an eye when sandusky continued his work on campus. and there are those who remained silent with the knowledge of abuse.
i guess the arguement could be made that had sandusky disappeared from campus after the abuse was reported, then the actors involved in this wouldn;t necessarily be worried about the case beyond that. But the fact that sandusky was allowed to hang out on campus, interacting with kids, all the while people who knew about the abuse, were interacting with him and seeing him, that doesnt square up for me. its like they all reported the abuse and then got amnesia and were able to conduct a, literally, collegial relationship with sandusky.
i think its wrong to single out one person. i dont blame the penn state scandal on any one person. i think the entire university failed the kids, the community and the world.
In case you missed it, it is more than rooting for a team. It's about the generousity and devotion this great man had for this university. He impacted many many lives in a positive way and that's how I'll remember him(as will many others associated with such a great university).
Why don't you move along and take your foam finger over to another thread(you know, one that isn't trying to remember a good man on the DAY he died).
He was a good coach and probably the best in his field. He accomplished great things but if you choose self preservation over your moral obligations, people will only remember you by your deeply flawed character.
it comes down to money and power and he lusted for it just as much as Sandusky lusted for Children.
with all due respect, you have no idea what the guy was thinking. he was a 76 year old man at the time. he followed the proper procedures.....but he should have done a lot more. he's admitted as much.
you're anger should be more focused on the man who actually committed these heinous acts and the higher ups at penn state who did nothing after paterno told them about it.
everyone involved should have done more and are equally culpable. As Ive pointed out multiple times, its not like reporting the behavior to others absolves one of guilt. Paterno, the AD, the president, Mcqueary all met, interacted with, and worked with an abuser after the allegations were passed on. Doesnt sound like anyone followed up at all. Wouldnt anyone be curious. Wouldnt paterno be curious to ask Mcqueary you know, a week or two later, seeing and knowing sandusky was still at the university, what happened, and why he was still around? Wouldnt mcqueary want to talk to paterno about why sandusky was still on campus? wouldnt both of them want to talk to university officials about why, especially mcqueary who had seen the abuse first hand, why sandusky was still on campus? My understanding of the issue is that there were two groups of people in this case. some reported the abuse, and then did absolutely nothing at all afterwords. didnt follow up and see what happened, and didnt blink an eye when sandusky continued his work on campus. and there are those who remained silent with the knowledge of abuse.
i guess the arguement could be made that had sandusky disappeared from campus after the abuse was reported, then the actors involved in this wouldn;t necessarily be worried about the case beyond that. But the fact that sandusky was allowed to hang out on campus, interacting with kids, all the while people who knew about the abuse, were interacting with him and seeing him, that doesnt square up for me. its like they all reported the abuse and then got amnesia and were able to conduct a, literally, collegial relationship with sandusky.
i think its wrong to single out one person. i dont blame the penn state scandal on any one person. i think the entire university failed the kids, the community and the world.
pretty much agree with this. and i'm of the belief that the football program should see some steep ncaa sanctions primarily due to them letting sandusky continue to use their facilities and stuff for years after they knew about it.
my point, and i think you were getting at it here, was that it was not just paterno. and what i was trying to emphasize to davidtrios is that the man did a ton of good things in his life. a ton of good both on and off the field. that cannot be disputed and should not be overlooked. he followed proper university protocol regarding this situation. my anger lies more with the ad and president who did not go to the police. that was on them moreso than it was on paterno imo....but i obviously also blame paterno for not following up and doing more.
sad situation all around. but people should not overlook all the good joepa did in his life.
juggler, i agree and disagree with you. i think the major problem in any coverup, this one included is every single person involved always passes the buck and acts like what they did was lesser because higher ups could have stopped it. I think alot of people are to blame, and its wrong to totally blame paterno, but i also think to ignore the part he played in allowing abuse to occur is ignorant.
i also think thats where moral and ethical issues fall into place. Proper university protocal and ones moral and ethical duty obviously dont align at all.
i think normal people, would have reported the abuse and i think considering paterno and sandusky were friends i would think paterno should have gone up to sandusky and asked him point blank about it and chewed him out. when it was clear the university wasnt going to act, i think a normal person, would have asked university officials about what the deal was. paterno could have pushed the issue and could have figured out from sandusky what had happened. its the most mindboggling thing to me, that no one talked to anyone else in this case except one to report it. Mcqueary to paterno. paterno to university officials. i would think mcqueary and paterno would have the initiative and drive to confront sandusky the next day. ask him what was going on. All indications suggest, no one had any conversations at all with anyone. that wouldnt bother anyone else? Obviously mcqueary and paterno knew the implications of reporting the abuse. they had to have known sandusky would be punished and worse as a result. but neither seemed troubled by the fact that the university did nothing at all, that sandusky could carry on. in fact, sandusky was able to continue as normal. just on a human level that irritates me.
i think paterno was probably shocked when mcqueary told him. and in those situations each of us, has to weigh the issue. is this person credible, is this a joke, and i think mcqueary relayed his eyewitness account in the way any one of us here would have, but certainly mcquearys actions are also bizaare, but one would assume he was frantic and scared and worried, and frightened, as he relayed the story to both his father and paterno. i see no reason to suspect mcqueary of smiling or laughing when he told paterno, hell he stopped by paternos house to tell him, paterno had to know it was serious even from that fact alone.
juggler, i agree and disagree with you. i think the major problem in any coverup, this one included is every single person involved always passes the buck and acts like what they did was lesser because higher ups could have stopped it. I think alot of people are to blame, and its wrong to totally blame paterno, but i also think to ignore the part he played in allowing abuse to occur is ignorant.
.
i didn't read your full post (less is more sometimes ).....but i never said to ignore the part he played in it. i've never said that. he absolutely should have at the very least followed up and asked what was being done. no doubt.
One other thing. I have never anticipated a book as much as I am anticipating the paterno book by Joe poz. Couldn't ask for a better person to write the closing chapter.
One other thing. I have never anticipated a book as much as I am anticipating the paterno book by Joe poz. Couldn't ask for a better person to write the closing chapter.
what a stroke of luck for all this to unfold while he was writing that
One other thing. I have never anticipated a book as much as I am anticipating the paterno book by Joe poz. Couldn't ask for a better person to write the closing chapter.
what a stroke of luck for all this to unfold while he was writing that
It's really crazy. I would really imagine this has probably been the most emotional event in his career. He went there to write a feel good book about Paterno, and ended up with the scandal and his death. I can't imagine, especially for a writer who puts his all into what he does.
I am saddened about the man's death... He obviously gave up after the events were made public this year.
As a father of three... Two of them boys, I feel for the father's and victims of those who were abused post the school becoming aware of the events... It's a shame when someone does not understand the actions he decides to take or not take... But there is no excuse for what happened here... And Paterno is 100% responsible... He could have walked up to any reporter, including the one who is doing his biography and ended numerous children's suffering... He didn't...
You don't get redemption from that.
I am saddened about the man's death... He obviously gave up after the events were made public this year.
As a father of three... Two of them boys, I feel for the father's and victims of those who were abused post the school becoming aware of the events... It's a shame when someone does not understand the actions he decides to take or not take... But there is no excuse for what happened here... And Paterno is 100% responsible... He could have walked up to any reporter, including the one who is doing his biography and ended numerous children's suffering... He didn't...
You don't get redemption from that.
This
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I am saddened about the man's death... He obviously gave up after the events were made public this year.
As a father of three... Two of them boys, I feel for the father's and victims of those who were abused post the school becoming aware of the events... It's a shame when someone does not understand the actions he decides to take or not take... But there is no excuse for what happened here... And Paterno is 100% responsible... He could have walked up to any reporter, including the one who is doing his biography and ended numerous children's suffering... He didn't...
You don't get redemption from that.
I completely agree with this.
I had the opportunity to meet him. There was this look of total genuine appreciation on his face that sticks with me to this day. It was this look in his eyes.
But in the light of everything that has happened, it sickens me. This just isn't a "mistake". If he wasn't Joe Paterno, and was just some guy who knew about another guy molesting children, he would be shunned and it would be a different story.
I am saddened about the man's death... He obviously gave up after the events were made public this year.
As a father of three... Two of them boys, I feel for the father's and victims of those who were abused post the school becoming aware of the events... It's a shame when someone does not understand the actions he decides to take or not take... But there is no excuse for what happened here... And Paterno is 100% responsible... He could have walked up to any reporter, including the one who is doing his biography and ended numerous children's suffering... He didn't...
You don't get redemption from that.
I completely agree with this.
I had the opportunity to meet him. There was this look of total genuine appreciation on his face that sticks with me to this day. It was this look in his eyes.
But in the light of everything that has happened, it sickens me. This just isn't a "mistake". If he wasn't Joe Paterno, and was just some guy who knew about another guy molesting children, he would be shunned and it would be a different story.
agree with both of you guys. thats why the sports hero statements are so pertinent. i never met him. he sounds like he was quite nice to alot of folks, like a grandfather. a nice kind guy. but people can be kind and nice and do horrible things. in fact thats usually the way it goes.
i will never will a football game, i will never win as many as paterno did. i wont win any championships. but, i think thats the danger of putting people on pedestals. if this was some professor at a university, who was hated by his students and hated by the staff, this wouldnt be an issue. the guy would have been tarred and feathered. but, people seem to view these sports stars like folk heroes, like saints. i have no doubt people at penn state and the surrounding town view paterno as a mythical figure, a legend.
how people view him is evidently insperable for most people from his football accomplishments.
as you said, you met him. i have no doubt he did genuinely appreciate you, and everyone at the university and everyone he met. i have no doubt because thats whats been made clear. but i also think whats just as apparent and stark and clear is his actions and inactions in this scandal. and i guess each person makes up their own mind as to how they feel about him and others. and we all make decisions based on what we feel is right. sports is viewed and identified with, with such religious fervor. and those in each sport who are talented and gifted are given god like status. i think what this scandal shows is, maybe thats only half the case.
i think we all have those faults. some are more egregious than others. martin luther king is certainly a genuine hero, but he also cheated on his wife. there were quite a few in the civil rights movement, heroes to us all, king wasnt in this group, who were out demanding justice for african americans, but were uncomfortable with female african americans or gay african americans getting involved in the fight and demanding justice as well.
michael jordan is a hero to many of us, but he has a gambling problem and cheated on his wife, and his greatest asset, his hard work and drive are also his major faults as i think its probably hard for him to do anything in a casual manner everything most likely turns into a competition and i dont think he would be a person who would be silent if he lost either!
I think we are all flawed, and a mixture of good and bad.
I hope as a society we aren't fooled by institutions that are the most vocal against homosexuality.....and we find out they are deviants, criminals, pedophiles etc
These institutions take a stand against consenting adults to marry and be together in general then have the balls to be vile humans
The Church
Ancient Romans n Greeks
Right wing politicians
Jocks
All put down the practice of homosexuality also have a taste for young boys. Absolutely mind numbing
Joe Pa..... Loved him before this, respect his coaching and charity. But his tight lips kept this going...... No doubt
If Paterno had just used his credit card to access child pornography all would be forgiven I guess. We would have wanted him at PJ20.
To me the bad guy has always been Sandusky. Sure, Paterno could have taken more action, but so could many people. Paterno is the biggest name involved, so he gets the brunt of the negativity. Regardless of what happened, I feel for his family. Death of a loved one is never easy, regardless of their faults. In some people's minds this will just be a footnote in his life, for others it will define him. But I think the most important thing, right now, is that a man has died.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
If Paterno had just used his credit card to access child pornography all would be forgiven I guess. We would have wanted him at PJ20.
To me the bad guy has always been Sandusky. Sure, Paterno could have taken more action, but so could many people. Paterno is the biggest name involved, so he gets the brunt of the negativity. Regardless of what happened, I feel for his family. Death of a loved one is never easy, regardless of their faults. In some people's minds this will just be a footnote in his life, for others it will define him. But I think the most important thing, right now, is that a man has died.
not sure if that credit card statement is one aimed at pete or not, but its been proven by various outlets, that pete did not have this huge stash of material, nor did he buy any, and in fact is innocent. he was writing a book about his own experience of abuse as a child. blogged about the writing of his book and wrote he was planning on investigating it, and then after the fact, blogged about what he had seen. it was surreal to me, because at that time i read his blog. so i saw the post about it, then a few weeks later he became front page news.
I hope as a society we aren't fooled by institutions that are the most vocal against homosexuality.....and we find out they are deviants, criminals, pedophiles etc
These institutions take a stand against consenting adults to marry and be together in general then have the balls to be vile humans
The Church
Ancient Romans n Greeks
Right wing politicians
Jocks
All put down the practice of homosexuality also have a taste for young boys. Absolutely mind numbing
Joe Pa..... Loved him before this, respect his coaching and charity. But his tight lips kept this going...... No doubt
Sad stuff
i agree completely, and am sickened by any display of antigay behavior or sentiments, but this is a case where i dont think thats been brought up at all. i dont think people are up in arms about this because it involved "gay" behavior, and i think too often thats misunderstood. wasnt sandusky married? abusing males if you are male has no bearing whatsoever on your sexual orientation. i think thats widely misunderstood. what sandusky did is vile and outrageous and criminal, but i dont think that makes him gay. People are mad because it was an abuse of power and curruption in the highest order, and it involved people who are considered pillars of the community who kept their mouths closed in order to get more fame, money, and prestige. gay behavior is irrelevant in this case.
If Paterno had just used his credit card to access child pornography all would be forgiven I guess. We would have wanted him at PJ20.
To me the bad guy has always been Sandusky. Sure, Paterno could have taken more action, but so could many people. Paterno is the biggest name involved, so he gets the brunt of the negativity. Regardless of what happened, I feel for his family. Death of a loved one is never easy, regardless of their faults. In some people's minds this will just be a footnote in his life, for others it will define him. But I think the most important thing, right now, is that a man has died.
i dont think you can say one person in this case acted more righteous than the other. every single person, from sandusky, paterno, mcqueary, the AD, the president of the university and anyone else who knew about it shares equally in the blame. i think thats the thing that needs to be understood. each person made a decision in this case. and those decisions had major ripple effects on the livelihood and welfare of children. Obviously sandusky does deserve a harsher sentence than anyone, but i think the university president covering it up and allowing abuse to continue is pretty damn gross and inhumane.
I dont think the fact paterno was and remains famous has any bearing on anything relating to negative press. the negative press resulted, on all sides and in all persons involved, by a widely percieved lack of empathy and sympathy for children, who were being abused, and the looking the other way, which is implicit or explicit approval of the actions that were going on.
as was said earlier if anything the fame aspect only helps people involved, if this was some lowly, dirt poor mill worker, no one would be saying anything, and they'd be likely thrown in jail the rest of their lives
If Paterno had just used his credit card to access child pornography all would be forgiven I guess. We would have wanted him at PJ20.
To me the bad guy has always been Sandusky. Sure, Paterno could have taken more action, but so could many people. Paterno is the biggest name involved, so he gets the brunt of the negativity. Regardless of what happened, I feel for his family. Death of a loved one is never easy, regardless of their faults. In some people's minds this will just be a footnote in his life, for others it will define him. But I think the most important thing, right now, is that a man has died.
not sure if that credit card statement is one aimed at pete or not, but its been proven by various outlets, that pete did not have this huge stash of material, nor did he buy any, and in fact is innocent. he was writing a book about his own experience of abuse as a child. blogged about the writing of his book and wrote he was planning on investigating it, and then after the fact, blogged about what he had seen. it was surreal to me, because at that time i read his blog. so i saw the post about it, then a few weeks later he became front page news.
He used his credit card to access a site advertising child pornography. Regardless of his reasons (I don't think he was actually interested in kiddie porn), he was going to support child pornographers (it turned out to be a sting so no money went to an actual child pornographer) for the sake of research. And at the end of the day, he did break the law. If it was the purpose of Pete's crusade to bring down child pornographers, he would have been better served reporting the site to the authorities as opposed to unknowingly giving them his credit card number thinking it was going to a child pornographer.
And similar to what you said in another post, if Pete Townshend had been a "lowly dirt poor mill worker", he would have gone to jail and been a registered sex offender after that instead of getting a caution.
I wasn't really saying what Pete did is as bad as what Paterno did, but depending on how/why we like people does have a huge bearing on whether or not we bury them for their mistakes. I think in communities like ours here Pete was very easily forgiven, while I personally don't think it was harmless.
I do think most of the spotlight on this case is hitting Paterno, because he was the big name, everybody knew him. Reading around on the internet after his death it is becoming apparent that many people aren't even aware that Paterno wasn't the one doing the raping. People actually think he was running around raping kids, because there is more spotlight on him than the person doing the actual raping. I don't agree with what Paterno did, but I don't think he's as bad as Sandusky.
"See a broad to get dat booty yak 'em, leg 'er down, a smack 'em yak 'em!"
If Paterno had just used his credit card to access child pornography all would be forgiven I guess. We would have wanted him at PJ20.
To me the bad guy has always been Sandusky. Sure, Paterno could have taken more action, but so could many people. Paterno is the biggest name involved, so he gets the brunt of the negativity. Regardless of what happened, I feel for his family. Death of a loved one is never easy, regardless of their faults. In some people's minds this will just be a footnote in his life, for others it will define him. But I think the most important thing, right now, is that a man has died.
not sure if that credit card statement is one aimed at pete or not, but its been proven by various outlets, that pete did not have this huge stash of material, nor did he buy any, and in fact is innocent. he was writing a book about his own experience of abuse as a child. blogged about the writing of his book and wrote he was planning on investigating it, and then after the fact, blogged about what he had seen. it was surreal to me, because at that time i read his blog. so i saw the post about it, then a few weeks later he became front page news.
Why would he have to investigate a website with child porn to write about his life experiences? Not like those types of sites have an "About us" page that explains the psychological reasons they're doing somethin like that. That's never added up with me whether his innocence has been proven or not.
As for Paterno....I don't get how people can say "he was the most powerful man in Pennsylvania" and then think the reason his name keeps gettin on the front page is b/c he's a very recognizable name. The fact is he had the power to do whatever he saw fit.
I am saddened about the man's death... He obviously gave up after the events were made public this year.
As a father of three... Two of them boys, I feel for the father's and victims of those who were abused post the school becoming aware of the events... It's a shame when someone does not understand the actions he decides to take or not take... But there is no excuse for what happened here... And Paterno is 100% responsible... He could have walked up to any reporter, including the one who is doing his biography and ended numerous children's suffering... He didn't...
You don't get redemption from that.
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Comments
comparing joe paterno to charles manson. this guy has officially lost any and all credibility....not sure he had much of it to begin with though. :?
you're right cliff. pointless argument.
rip joepa
it came down to power and he lusted for it just as much as Sandusky lusted for Children.
dont let sports cloud your judgement. ya he won some football games and that's great. i have teams i root for too.
time to put the foam finger away look at reality.
with all due respect, you have no idea what the guy was thinking. he was a 76 year old man at the time. he followed the proper procedures.....but he should have done a lot more. he's admitted as much.
you're anger should be more focused on the man who actually committed these heinous acts and the higher ups at penn state who did nothing after paterno told them about it.
by the way--regarding money, paterno's salary was more in line with what mac and sun belt coaches made compared to what coaches in bcs conferences make. he left millions and millions of dollars on the table at penn state. guy lived in a modest house on campus and walked to work regularly. so that's another part of your argument that is misguided.
everyone involved should have done more and are equally culpable. As Ive pointed out multiple times, its not like reporting the behavior to others absolves one of guilt. Paterno, the AD, the president, Mcqueary all met, interacted with, and worked with an abuser after the allegations were passed on. Doesnt sound like anyone followed up at all. Wouldnt anyone be curious. Wouldnt paterno be curious to ask Mcqueary you know, a week or two later, seeing and knowing sandusky was still at the university, what happened, and why he was still around? Wouldnt mcqueary want to talk to paterno about why sandusky was still on campus? wouldnt both of them want to talk to university officials about why, especially mcqueary who had seen the abuse first hand, why sandusky was still on campus? My understanding of the issue is that there were two groups of people in this case. some reported the abuse, and then did absolutely nothing at all afterwords. didnt follow up and see what happened, and didnt blink an eye when sandusky continued his work on campus. and there are those who remained silent with the knowledge of abuse.
i guess the arguement could be made that had sandusky disappeared from campus after the abuse was reported, then the actors involved in this wouldn;t necessarily be worried about the case beyond that. But the fact that sandusky was allowed to hang out on campus, interacting with kids, all the while people who knew about the abuse, were interacting with him and seeing him, that doesnt square up for me. its like they all reported the abuse and then got amnesia and were able to conduct a, literally, collegial relationship with sandusky.
i think its wrong to single out one person. i dont blame the penn state scandal on any one person. i think the entire university failed the kids, the community and the world.
In case you missed it, it is more than rooting for a team. It's about the generousity and devotion this great man had for this university. He impacted many many lives in a positive way and that's how I'll remember him(as will many others associated with such a great university).
Why don't you move along and take your foam finger over to another thread(you know, one that isn't trying to remember a good man on the DAY he died).
pretty much agree with this. and i'm of the belief that the football program should see some steep ncaa sanctions primarily due to them letting sandusky continue to use their facilities and stuff for years after they knew about it.
my point, and i think you were getting at it here, was that it was not just paterno. and what i was trying to emphasize to davidtrios is that the man did a ton of good things in his life. a ton of good both on and off the field. that cannot be disputed and should not be overlooked. he followed proper university protocol regarding this situation. my anger lies more with the ad and president who did not go to the police. that was on them moreso than it was on paterno imo....but i obviously also blame paterno for not following up and doing more.
sad situation all around. but people should not overlook all the good joepa did in his life.
i also think thats where moral and ethical issues fall into place. Proper university protocal and ones moral and ethical duty obviously dont align at all.
i think normal people, would have reported the abuse and i think considering paterno and sandusky were friends i would think paterno should have gone up to sandusky and asked him point blank about it and chewed him out. when it was clear the university wasnt going to act, i think a normal person, would have asked university officials about what the deal was. paterno could have pushed the issue and could have figured out from sandusky what had happened. its the most mindboggling thing to me, that no one talked to anyone else in this case except one to report it. Mcqueary to paterno. paterno to university officials. i would think mcqueary and paterno would have the initiative and drive to confront sandusky the next day. ask him what was going on. All indications suggest, no one had any conversations at all with anyone. that wouldnt bother anyone else? Obviously mcqueary and paterno knew the implications of reporting the abuse. they had to have known sandusky would be punished and worse as a result. but neither seemed troubled by the fact that the university did nothing at all, that sandusky could carry on. in fact, sandusky was able to continue as normal. just on a human level that irritates me.
i think paterno was probably shocked when mcqueary told him. and in those situations each of us, has to weigh the issue. is this person credible, is this a joke, and i think mcqueary relayed his eyewitness account in the way any one of us here would have, but certainly mcquearys actions are also bizaare, but one would assume he was frantic and scared and worried, and frightened, as he relayed the story to both his father and paterno. i see no reason to suspect mcqueary of smiling or laughing when he told paterno, hell he stopped by paternos house to tell him, paterno had to know it was serious even from that fact alone.
i didn't read your full post (less is more sometimes
what a stroke of luck for all this to unfold while he was writing that
It's really crazy. I would really imagine this has probably been the most emotional event in his career. He went there to write a feel good book about Paterno, and ended up with the scandal and his death. I can't imagine, especially for a writer who puts his all into what he does.
As a father of three... Two of them boys, I feel for the father's and victims of those who were abused post the school becoming aware of the events... It's a shame when someone does not understand the actions he decides to take or not take... But there is no excuse for what happened here... And Paterno is 100% responsible... He could have walked up to any reporter, including the one who is doing his biography and ended numerous children's suffering... He didn't...
You don't get redemption from that.
This
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
I completely agree with this.
I had the opportunity to meet him. There was this look of total genuine appreciation on his face that sticks with me to this day. It was this look in his eyes.
But in the light of everything that has happened, it sickens me. This just isn't a "mistake". If he wasn't Joe Paterno, and was just some guy who knew about another guy molesting children, he would be shunned and it would be a different story.
agree with both of you guys. thats why the sports hero statements are so pertinent. i never met him. he sounds like he was quite nice to alot of folks, like a grandfather. a nice kind guy. but people can be kind and nice and do horrible things. in fact thats usually the way it goes.
i will never will a football game, i will never win as many as paterno did. i wont win any championships. but, i think thats the danger of putting people on pedestals. if this was some professor at a university, who was hated by his students and hated by the staff, this wouldnt be an issue. the guy would have been tarred and feathered. but, people seem to view these sports stars like folk heroes, like saints. i have no doubt people at penn state and the surrounding town view paterno as a mythical figure, a legend.
how people view him is evidently insperable for most people from his football accomplishments.
as you said, you met him. i have no doubt he did genuinely appreciate you, and everyone at the university and everyone he met. i have no doubt because thats whats been made clear. but i also think whats just as apparent and stark and clear is his actions and inactions in this scandal. and i guess each person makes up their own mind as to how they feel about him and others. and we all make decisions based on what we feel is right. sports is viewed and identified with, with such religious fervor. and those in each sport who are talented and gifted are given god like status. i think what this scandal shows is, maybe thats only half the case.
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michael jordan is a hero to many of us, but he has a gambling problem and cheated on his wife, and his greatest asset, his hard work and drive are also his major faults as i think its probably hard for him to do anything in a casual manner everything most likely turns into a competition and i dont think he would be a person who would be silent if he lost either!
I think we are all flawed, and a mixture of good and bad.
These institutions take a stand against consenting adults to marry and be together in general then have the balls to be vile humans
The Church
Ancient Romans n Greeks
Right wing politicians
Jocks
All put down the practice of homosexuality also have a taste for young boys. Absolutely mind numbing
Joe Pa..... Loved him before this, respect his coaching and charity. But his tight lips kept this going...... No doubt
Sad stuff
To me the bad guy has always been Sandusky. Sure, Paterno could have taken more action, but so could many people. Paterno is the biggest name involved, so he gets the brunt of the negativity. Regardless of what happened, I feel for his family. Death of a loved one is never easy, regardless of their faults. In some people's minds this will just be a footnote in his life, for others it will define him. But I think the most important thing, right now, is that a man has died.
not sure if that credit card statement is one aimed at pete or not, but its been proven by various outlets, that pete did not have this huge stash of material, nor did he buy any, and in fact is innocent. he was writing a book about his own experience of abuse as a child. blogged about the writing of his book and wrote he was planning on investigating it, and then after the fact, blogged about what he had seen. it was surreal to me, because at that time i read his blog. so i saw the post about it, then a few weeks later he became front page news.
i agree completely, and am sickened by any display of antigay behavior or sentiments, but this is a case where i dont think thats been brought up at all. i dont think people are up in arms about this because it involved "gay" behavior, and i think too often thats misunderstood. wasnt sandusky married? abusing males if you are male has no bearing whatsoever on your sexual orientation. i think thats widely misunderstood. what sandusky did is vile and outrageous and criminal, but i dont think that makes him gay. People are mad because it was an abuse of power and curruption in the highest order, and it involved people who are considered pillars of the community who kept their mouths closed in order to get more fame, money, and prestige. gay behavior is irrelevant in this case.
i dont think you can say one person in this case acted more righteous than the other. every single person, from sandusky, paterno, mcqueary, the AD, the president of the university and anyone else who knew about it shares equally in the blame. i think thats the thing that needs to be understood. each person made a decision in this case. and those decisions had major ripple effects on the livelihood and welfare of children. Obviously sandusky does deserve a harsher sentence than anyone, but i think the university president covering it up and allowing abuse to continue is pretty damn gross and inhumane.
I dont think the fact paterno was and remains famous has any bearing on anything relating to negative press. the negative press resulted, on all sides and in all persons involved, by a widely percieved lack of empathy and sympathy for children, who were being abused, and the looking the other way, which is implicit or explicit approval of the actions that were going on.
as was said earlier if anything the fame aspect only helps people involved, if this was some lowly, dirt poor mill worker, no one would be saying anything, and they'd be likely thrown in jail the rest of their lives
He used his credit card to access a site advertising child pornography. Regardless of his reasons (I don't think he was actually interested in kiddie porn), he was going to support child pornographers (it turned out to be a sting so no money went to an actual child pornographer) for the sake of research. And at the end of the day, he did break the law. If it was the purpose of Pete's crusade to bring down child pornographers, he would have been better served reporting the site to the authorities as opposed to unknowingly giving them his credit card number thinking it was going to a child pornographer.
And similar to what you said in another post, if Pete Townshend had been a "lowly dirt poor mill worker", he would have gone to jail and been a registered sex offender after that instead of getting a caution.
I wasn't really saying what Pete did is as bad as what Paterno did, but depending on how/why we like people does have a huge bearing on whether or not we bury them for their mistakes. I think in communities like ours here Pete was very easily forgiven, while I personally don't think it was harmless.
I do think most of the spotlight on this case is hitting Paterno, because he was the big name, everybody knew him. Reading around on the internet after his death it is becoming apparent that many people aren't even aware that Paterno wasn't the one doing the raping. People actually think he was running around raping kids, because there is more spotlight on him than the person doing the actual raping. I don't agree with what Paterno did, but I don't think he's as bad as Sandusky.
Why would he have to investigate a website with child porn to write about his life experiences? Not like those types of sites have an "About us" page that explains the psychological reasons they're doing somethin like that. That's never added up with me whether his innocence has been proven or not.
As for Paterno....I don't get how people can say "he was the most powerful man in Pennsylvania" and then think the reason his name keeps gettin on the front page is b/c he's a very recognizable name. The fact is he had the power to do whatever he saw fit.
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