How about trying investing in alternate technologies?
Hopefully soon-- before we've cooked the planet.
"$5+ a gallon by summer...yikes!"
$5 a gallon? It should be $10. Get people off their butts and working toward cleaner energy before we roast ourselves and everything else living. (OK, I exaggerate, but only a little.)
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Well wouldn't you know... another oil spill! Just in time to approve the Keystone XL, pardon me, I mean the Keystone for a Secure Tomorrow Act of 2012. :roll:
Well wouldn't you know... another oil spill! Just in time to approve the Keystone XL, pardon me, I mean the Keystone for a Secure Tomorrow Act of 2012. :roll:
Well wouldn't you know... another oil spill! Just in time to approve the Keystone XL, pardon me, I mean the Keystone for a Secure Tomorrow Act of 2012. :roll:
Besides causing fracking earthquakes, polluting aquafiers then the processing and so on and so forth your are not going to see any money back into the economy with this pipeline but $$ back into pockets of those who are propagating this mess.This oil is to be sold offshore just like the oil drilled in Alaska. Its a LIE. Getting off oil dependency starts here at home and weening ourselves &that means rejecting any new projects which are archaic and instituting alternative methods.
Every prominent vital integral world leader is against this pipeline from the likes of the Dalai Lama, Desmond Tutu, etc and all of us who are trying to globally speak as one. Thats what its about. Anyone listening? Obviously not.
Well wouldn't you know... another oil spill! Just in time to approve the Keystone XL, pardon me, I mean the Keystone for a Secure Tomorrow Act of 2012. :roll:
what is truly sad is that you would figure by now people would see how corporations lie and do whatever to make a buck and yet they continue to buy the bullshit ...
what is truly sad is that you would figure by now people would see how corporations lie and do whatever to make a buck and yet they continue to buy the bullshit ...
I wonder if it's out of laziness or an unwillingness to change... or both.
I wonder if it's out of laziness or an unwillingness to change... or both.
combination of things ... but i think the biggest thing is that people want to have faith in corporations and gov't ... that they would never lie and do things that aren't in the interests of everyone ... they don't want to question that faith ... it's why in the US, you have the highest proportion of people who don't believe in global warming and why you can continue to occupy 2 countries and fund the israeli occupation ...
people don't want to ask the questions because they don't want to know the answers ...
I wonder if it's out of laziness or an unwillingness to change... or both.
combination of things ... but i think the biggest thing is that people want to have faith in corporations and gov't ... that they would never lie and do things that aren't in the interests of everyone ... they don't want to question that faith ... it's why in the US, you have the highest proportion of people who don't believe in global warming and why you can continue to occupy 2 countries and fund the israeli occupation ...
people don't want to ask the questions because they don't want to know the answers ...
what is truly sad is that you would figure by now people would see how corporations lie and do whatever to make a buck and yet they continue to buy the bullshit ...
Right.
It feels futile.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,393
We need to keep the pressure on Congress to not give into big oil. Here's a great picture from a recent 350.org gathering outside the Capitol:
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
100,000 jobs. Energy independence.Naw... No upside here.
Im glad Obama cancelled it- something else to hammer him on in the general election...
Please find me a reputable source that states that the pipeline will produce 100,000 jobs.If you can't find a reputable source, then please keep quiet.
additionally, please provide credible evidence that a single pipeline is going to produce complete and total energy independance...
My understanding is that the pipeline will not improve oil independence AT ALL. The oil is destined for export.
cornell study says 5k jobs, state dept says approx 6k, one other outside group said tops 10k, counting support personnel, ie. hospitality, transportation, supply chain. i think american petroleum institute and/or gop came up w/a # btwn 20-100k. :roll: tough for me to bash it as my company would definitely profit from the project being approved. i would be lynched in Houston around certain business's if they sensed an opposition to keystone.
I’m in Alberta, so I’m in the same boat…I’m not directly working in the O&G sector, but I am in construction….so the boom/bust cycles of the tarsands directly effect new construction around here…..it’s kind of a fine line to walk without being hypocritical…but personally, I don’t care if I piss people off with my opinions – spurring debate is never a bad thing.
I vote pipeline and get some people to work ... a lot of people
plus if it will help even a little to ease the dependency on foreign oil
thats a good thing.
$5+ a gallon by summer...yikes!
You’re putting way too much stock in the propaganda being pushed by the corp media, and from the corp owned govt. There will be a lot of very TEMPORARY jobs created by this. It’s estimated that approx 50 permanent jobs will be created. Is that really worth it.
Again, it’s destined for export.
And…this pipeline will lead to price INCREASES in the midwest – it’s right in Transcanada’s application to build.
KEYSTONE XL PIPELINE IS PROJECTED TO INCREASE MIDWEST OIL PRICES
Iowa won't see any benefits from this pipeline. Instead, if completed, the new pipeline will cause gas prices to go up 10 to 20 cents per gallon of gasoline and put two million Americans’ drinking water at risk of contamination from toxic tar sands oil.
The analysis used in the application submitted to The Canadian National Energy Board, conducted by Purvin & Gertz Inc. on behalf of TransCanada, says:
Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally PADD II, are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil.
Access to the USGC via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in PADD II by removing this oversupply… The resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013 of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.
The ‘price discounting’ that TransCanada speaks of refers to the effect the oversupply of Canadian crude oil has on gas prices in the Midwestern United States.
PADD II refers to the Midwest, PADD I refers to the Gulf Coast.
Famed oil market economist Dr. Verleger describes how the increase in the cost of oil associated with Keystone XL’s construction will have adverse economic effects for Midwestern FAMILIES in addition to higher prices at the pump.
1. ‘U.S. farmers, who spent $12.4 billion on fuel in 2009, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, could see expenses rise to $15 billion or higher in 2012 or 2013 if the pipeline goes through. Of course, American consumers will pay the price of this highway robbery. Food prices will rise because they reflect farm operating costs. In addition, millions of Americans will spend 10 to 20 cents more per gallon for gasoline and diesel fuel as tribute to our "friendly" neighbors to the north.’
2. Higher oil prices in the Midwest will have substantial economic impacts upon every aspect of American life. Higher fuel prices will lead to increased expenditures in the education sector, the agricultural sector, and the public transportation sector, just to name a few. While TransCanada, our ‘friendly neighbor’ claims to have America’s national interest in mind, the economic evidence says otherwise. Stand up for America’s national interest, and the economic welfare of all Americans.
oil can only be extracted from the tar sands when the price per barrel is over $75 ... something that wars and instability in the middle east does ... without those wars - tar sands oil would not be profitable
So I guess we should all thank the US for keeping a roof over my head . Thanks again for keeping the middle east unstable. Now you complain about a pipeline? WOW! Priorities eh? Do you realize how many pipelines are under our feet? Maybe we should create jobs by tearing all of them up. Obviously they are so bad for the environment, not like spilling oil into the ocean, that is ok right. Cuz if this pipeline isn't approved then more oil will be shipped by boat. (to China) Thats way better than over the land that it came from in the first place. (sarcastic)
As an Albertan involved in, and supporting the O&G industry, you should be asking why this oil is not being refined in Canada, not defending selling it for fucking penny royalties to other countries to be refined. Our natural resources are being plundered by foreign interests for next to nothing. We’re actually LOSING jobs by piping this stuff south, as it could be refined here if we built the infrastructure to do so. But we won’t....Why? Refineries.... NIMBY, right?
Also, you seem to think that this pipeline will prevent water based shipping….how do you think they will export the refined product out of the gulf? Between the added shipments from those refineries, and our own Northern Gateway pipeline BS, we will see a massive INCREASE in shipping via water.
Do you know how many jobs we would create with a conversion to alternative energies that does not include fracking of some sort? Millions. retro fitting cars, retro fitting homes, new grids....blah blah blah... the list goes on and on.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,393
Do you know how many jobs we would create with a conversion to alternative energies that does not include fracking of some sort? Millions. retro fitting cars, retro fitting homes, new grids....blah blah blah... the list goes on and on.
Even the most avid capitalists could understand this, wouldn't 'cha think? :crazy:
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Do you know how many jobs we would create with a conversion to alternative energies that does not include fracking of some sort? Millions. retro fitting cars, retro fitting homes, new grids....blah blah blah... the list goes on and on.
the problem is that the corporations that have been exploiting us for years would not continue to make massive profits on the people's backs ... so, they will put on PR BS that the general public eat up because they can't think for themselves anymore ...
i pushed a environmental sustainability program through my work and got it approved amongst our executives (none of which are remotely close to being lefty liberals) because it made good business sense ... that's the frustrating thing - going green makes sense ... but we don't because of the misinformation put forth by those who would not be allowed to continue to exploit us ...
Do you know how many jobs we would create with a conversion to alternative energies that does not include fracking of some sort? Millions. retro fitting cars, retro fitting homes, new grids....blah blah blah... the list goes on and on.
the problem is that the corporations that have been exploiting us for years would not continue to make massive profits on the people's backs ... so, they will put on PR BS that the general public eat up because they can't think for themselves anymore ...
i pushed a environmental sustainability program through my work and got it approved amongst our executives (none of which are remotely close to being lefty liberals) because it made good business sense ... that's the frustrating thing - going green makes sense ... but we don't because of the misinformation put forth by those who would not be allowed to continue to exploit us ...
+1,000,000,000
The embrace of a clean energy industry is pure capitalism. Unfortunately, a majority of those opposed see it as liberal, hippie propaganda..........we are such a smart society!!!
Do you know how many jobs we would create with a conversion to alternative energies that does not include fracking of some sort? Millions. retro fitting cars, retro fitting homes, new grids....blah blah blah... the list goes on and on.
the problem is that the corporations that have been exploiting us for years would not continue to make massive profits on the people's backs ... so, they will put on PR BS that the general public eat up because they can't think for themselves anymore ...
i pushed a environmental sustainability program through my work and got it approved amongst our executives (none of which are remotely close to being lefty liberals) because it made good business sense ... that's the frustrating thing - going green makes sense ... but we don't because of the misinformation put forth by those who would not be allowed to continue to exploit us ...
+1,000,000,000
The embrace of a clean energy industry is pure capitalism. Unfortunately, a majority of those opposed see it as liberal, hippie propaganda..........we are such a smart society!!!
Thats the thing. Now I feel like I have to appeal to greed to get anything accomplished. Here we have green energy in the "suits" commercial someone just sent me. Which is fine if this is what it takes then, Id have to agree, then. When I watch it, I feel a bit sold out and dirty.
That's the thing. Now I feel like I have to appeal to greed to get anything accomplished.
That is so true and so sad. It's a fact of life, I'm afraid, but I suppose we do have to use what means are available. Too bad doing what is logical and what makes the most sense doesn't seem to count as much as money, money, money.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Comments
plus if it will help even a little to ease the dependency on foreign oil
thats a good thing.
$5+ a gallon by summer...yikes!
"$5+ a gallon by summer...yikes!"
$5 a gallon? It should be $10. Get people off their butts and working toward cleaner energy before we roast ourselves and everything else living. (OK, I exaggerate, but only a little.)
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
http://wildernesscommittee.org/press_re ... on_dangers
Excuse me folks, I'm going to go stick my head in a mail box and scream...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
We'll learn too late, I'm afraid. It's just insane that people insist on staying on the oil bandwagon.
Besides causing fracking earthquakes, polluting aquafiers then the processing and so on and so forth your are not going to see any money back into the economy with this pipeline but $$ back into pockets of those who are propagating this mess.This oil is to be sold offshore just like the oil drilled in Alaska. Its a LIE. Getting off oil dependency starts here at home and weening ourselves &that means rejecting any new projects which are archaic and instituting alternative methods.
Every prominent vital integral world leader is against this pipeline from the likes of the Dalai Lama, Desmond Tutu, etc and all of us who are trying to globally speak as one. Thats what its about. Anyone listening? Obviously not.
Really?
They may be thinking about it, but doing something about overconsumerism is a whole nother thing.
what is truly sad is that you would figure by now people would see how corporations lie and do whatever to make a buck and yet they continue to buy the bullshit ...
I wonder if it's out of laziness or an unwillingness to change... or both.
combination of things ... but i think the biggest thing is that people want to have faith in corporations and gov't ... that they would never lie and do things that aren't in the interests of everyone ... they don't want to question that faith ... it's why in the US, you have the highest proportion of people who don't believe in global warming and why you can continue to occupy 2 countries and fund the israeli occupation ...
people don't want to ask the questions because they don't want to know the answers ...
Apathy. People don't care.
"Many Americans would trade away their personal liberties & life-giving ecosystems - tolerate war & $ thievery - for an iPhone & a BJ"
(small edit)
This is from a man who is extremely astute and very well spoken. I was quite shocked. This is the frustration.
Right.
It feels futile.
http://www.350.org/en/about/blogs/hundr ... y-congress
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
This world makes me ill. It never fails my amazement when innocent people continually get sold out while the "evil" of the world still grows.
As soon as people stand up and say "FU youre not doing this to me anymore nor will I let you tread upon me." - they become the bad guy.
Its a damn joke, right?
In 2010 alone, the big 5 oil companies reduced their global workforce by a combined 4,400 employees, while making a combined $73 billion in profits
http://democrats.naturalresources.house ... kSlips.pdf
Congressman brawl over subpoena for Koch Brothers.
Fracking song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=timfvNgr ... E8ADCB0D4C
I’m in Alberta, so I’m in the same boat…I’m not directly working in the O&G sector, but I am in construction….so the boom/bust cycles of the tarsands directly effect new construction around here…..it’s kind of a fine line to walk without being hypocritical…but personally, I don’t care if I piss people off with my opinions – spurring debate is never a bad thing.
Again, it’s destined for export.
And…this pipeline will lead to price INCREASES in the midwest – it’s right in Transcanada’s application to build.
http://dirtyoilsands.org/midwestgas/iowa
KEYSTONE XL PIPELINE IS PROJECTED TO INCREASE MIDWEST OIL PRICES
Iowa won't see any benefits from this pipeline. Instead, if completed, the new pipeline will cause gas prices to go up 10 to 20 cents per gallon of gasoline and put two million Americans’ drinking water at risk of contamination from toxic tar sands oil.
The analysis used in the application submitted to The Canadian National Energy Board, conducted by Purvin & Gertz Inc. on behalf of TransCanada, says:
Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally PADD II, are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil.
Access to the USGC via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in PADD II by removing this oversupply… The resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013 of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.
The ‘price discounting’ that TransCanada speaks of refers to the effect the oversupply of Canadian crude oil has on gas prices in the Midwestern United States.
PADD II refers to the Midwest, PADD I refers to the Gulf Coast.
Famed oil market economist Dr. Verleger describes how the increase in the cost of oil associated with Keystone XL’s construction will have adverse economic effects for Midwestern FAMILIES in addition to higher prices at the pump.
1. ‘U.S. farmers, who spent $12.4 billion on fuel in 2009, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, could see expenses rise to $15 billion or higher in 2012 or 2013 if the pipeline goes through. Of course, American consumers will pay the price of this highway robbery. Food prices will rise because they reflect farm operating costs. In addition, millions of Americans will spend 10 to 20 cents more per gallon for gasoline and diesel fuel as tribute to our "friendly" neighbors to the north.’
2. Higher oil prices in the Midwest will have substantial economic impacts upon every aspect of American life. Higher fuel prices will lead to increased expenditures in the education sector, the agricultural sector, and the public transportation sector, just to name a few. While TransCanada, our ‘friendly neighbor’ claims to have America’s national interest in mind, the economic evidence says otherwise. Stand up for America’s national interest, and the economic welfare of all Americans.
As an Albertan involved in, and supporting the O&G industry, you should be asking why this oil is not being refined in Canada, not defending selling it for fucking penny royalties to other countries to be refined. Our natural resources are being plundered by foreign interests for next to nothing. We’re actually LOSING jobs by piping this stuff south, as it could be refined here if we built the infrastructure to do so. But we won’t....Why? Refineries.... NIMBY, right?
Also, you seem to think that this pipeline will prevent water based shipping….how do you think they will export the refined product out of the gulf? Between the added shipments from those refineries, and our own Northern Gateway pipeline BS, we will see a massive INCREASE in shipping via water.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
the problem is that the corporations that have been exploiting us for years would not continue to make massive profits on the people's backs ... so, they will put on PR BS that the general public eat up because they can't think for themselves anymore ...
i pushed a environmental sustainability program through my work and got it approved amongst our executives (none of which are remotely close to being lefty liberals) because it made good business sense ... that's the frustrating thing - going green makes sense ... but we don't because of the misinformation put forth by those who would not be allowed to continue to exploit us ...
+1,000,000,000
The embrace of a clean energy industry is pure capitalism. Unfortunately, a majority of those opposed see it as liberal, hippie propaganda..........we are such a smart society!!!
Thats the thing. Now I feel like I have to appeal to greed to get anything accomplished. Here we have green energy in the "suits" commercial someone just sent me. Which is fine if this is what it takes then, Id have to agree, then. When I watch it, I feel a bit sold out and dirty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... tqxEgoaABI
That is so true and so sad. It's a fact of life, I'm afraid, but I suppose we do have to use what means are available. Too bad doing what is logical and what makes the most sense doesn't seem to count as much as money, money, money.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Big oil, big business, propaganda and lies... decide for yourself how deep unethical practices go. Murdoch in the title should be enough.
Media distortion of safety issues with Chevy Volt.
Waiting lines for sustainable cars and nothing but red-tape, grief and destruction of possibilities.