GOP's 10 Most Extreme Attacks On a Woman's Right to Choose..

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  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    _ wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:

    are planned parenthood providers paid on salary or by productivity?

    I don't know a lot about their specific operation

    I did just read this though...makes a lot of sense to me

    Will it cost taxpayers money to fund abortions?

    No. Because the costs associated with childbirth, neonatal and pediatric care greatly exceed the costs of abortion, public funding for abortion neither costs the taxpayer money nor drains resources from other services.

    interesting way to look at it. I still don't understand why someone would want to take away a personal choice of someone else

    Okay, real quick before I go, so I can get this straight...

    I haven't specifically read the contract of any Planned Parenthood provider, but the non-PP abortion providers I know are paid based on a mixture of salary, productivity, & grant funding.

    But let me understand what you're saying here: The federal government funds non-abortion-related contraceptive, STI, & cancer screening services at Planned Parenthood (and other clinics & hospitals that may or may not provide abortion) through Medicaid payment of services and Title X & 340b subsidies. Planned Parenthood also receives income for services via cash & insurance. They also have income from some private donors. And you don't think the government money for non-abortion services can possibly be kept separate from the money for abortion services. Right?

    But that's like saying that when my mom (who's anti-alcohol) buys milk at a grocery store & pays for the milk, and I buy alcohol & pay for the alcohol, my mom is really paying for my alcohol. (Analagous to payment for services, i.e. Medicaid.) And if the government wants to provide milk subsidies or coupons, they are using tax money to pay for alcohol. (Analagous to subsidized services, i.e. Title X & 340b drug pricing.) The expense of & income from those items are not tied together. If patients can't pay for their abortions, the cost is not subsidized by the non-abortion budget - the service is just not provided. And the cost for the doctor's time, the instruments, etc for abortion is factored into & paid by the income from the procedures. Salaried or not, it's not difficult to pay part of a person's paycheck from one budget and part from another, depending on how much time they spend on each service. It's pretty simple, actually, to make sure monies are kept separate for services & overhead when using different funds; organizations do it with grant funds all the time.

    thanks for the answer...
    but no, not right. I am saying that it is possible that dollars allocated to a clinic for sti, cancer and other screenings(group A funds) are used to pay the entirety of a providers salary.. Those providers to then preform abortions, on a sliding scale minimum mind you, if clients are paying the full amount it is a moot point. isn't it possible to see this as federally funding abortions? This really only applies to those agencies that would account this way. I cannot believe it is an unheard of way of doing things however, I do understand the lengths most places go through to keep funding separate...we do it all the time...but is it impossible to think this kind of accounting goes on?

    to me that is the kind of thinking that goes into saying that federal money funds abortions...
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Blockhead wrote:
    _ wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    I don't think it is as ridiculous as you do...the physical damage done by a pregnancy up to and including life threatening is real...

    A woman who is less than 9 weeks pregnant (when most abortions occur) is 71 times more likely to die if she chooses childbirth than if she chooses abortion.
    Why don't you compare the number of deaths to actual childbirths... Its WAY less than 1% (in the US which has terrible health care, right)

    Did you mean compare the number of maternal deaths to the number of women who don't experience maternal death? Because that's not the question at hand.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,440
    i believe that it is a slippery slope to begin making laws to limit rights. laws should be there to grant people rights. i feel it is wrong to legislatively take away a right that has been granted 30 years ago.

    also, it seems that many people on here who vote republican or claim to be "independant" (which is politically convenient these days) are arguing against abortion and say it should not be legal. i thought you all wanted government out of everyone's lives? what happened to that?

    i guess wanting government out of people's lives only applies to taxes and health insurance and freedom, and not the bedroom or the doctor's office where the government should keep it's nose out of. people are all too ready to fight against gay marriage and women's rights to choose..

    if you are against abortion, do not have one. do not legislate what everyone else should do with their own bodies....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i believe that it is a slippery slope to begin making laws to limit rights. laws should be there to grant people rights. i feel it is wrong to legislatively take away a right that has been granted 30 years ago.

    also, it seems that many people on here who vote republican or claim to be "independant" (which is politically convenient these days) are arguing against abortion and say it should not be legal. i thought you all wanted government out of everyone's lives? what happened to that?

    i guess wanting government out of people's lives only applies to taxes and health insurance and freedom, and not the bedroom or the doctor's office where the government should keep it's nose out of. people are all too ready to fight against gay marriage and women's rights to choose..

    if you are against abortion, do not have one. do not legislate what everyone else should do with their own bodies....

    Good point, and can you imagine if abortions were illegal, how women would be going about getting abortions still? It would be really ugly.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,885
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i believe that it is a slippery slope to begin making laws to limit rights. laws should be there to grant people rights.

    if you are against abortion, do not have one. do not legislate what everyone else should do with their own bodies....


    Right, like granting rights to the developing human.

    As for the last point....if you are against war, just do fight in one. If you are against corporate greed, just don't buy from those corporations. If you are against prayer in school, just don't pray. :roll:
    hippiemom = goodness
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    mikepegg44 wrote:

    thanks for the answer...
    but no, not right. I am saying that it is possible that dollars allocated to a clinic for sti, cancer and other screenings(group A funds) are used to pay the entirety of a providers salary.. Those providers to then preform abortions, on a sliding scale minimum mind you, if clients are paying the full amount it is a moot point. isn't it possible to see this as federally funding abortions? This really only applies to those agencies that would account this way. I cannot believe it is an unheard of way of doing things however, I do understand the lengths most places go through to keep funding separate...we do it all the time...but is it impossible to think this kind of accounting goes on?

    to me that is the kind of thinking that goes into saying that federal money funds abortions...

    That is the kind of thinking that goes into it, but it's not accurate. That money is not used to pay the providers' entire salaries and patients cannot pay for abortion on a sliding scale. It is an unheard way of doing things because they really do go to great lengths to keep the money separate & have to be strictly accountable for that.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,885
    JonnyPistachio wrote:

    Good point, and can you imagine if abortions were illegal, how women would be going about getting abortions still? It would be really ugly.

    Especially if it were made illegal now.

    Which is why we should start viewing it as a terrible thing but not just take it away in 1 day. It should be reduced through education. In time, it could be eliminated except in some extreme cases. Even then I'm against it since I believe it is murder (incest, rape) and why should 1 crime follow another, but it'd be pretty difficult to tell a woman that has been raped that she must have the child. That is a very shitty situation.

    Anyhoo, I think I'm going to try and bail out of this one now before I have a heart attack. Take care all.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i believe that it is a slippery slope to begin making laws to limit rights. laws should be there to grant people rights. i feel it is wrong to legislatively take away a right that has been granted 30 years ago.

    also, it seems that many people on here who vote republican or claim to be "independant" (which is politically convenient these days) are arguing against abortion and say it should not be legal. i thought you all wanted government out of everyone's lives? what happened to that?

    i guess wanting government out of people's lives only applies to taxes and health insurance and freedom, and not the bedroom or the doctor's office where the government should keep it's nose out of. people are all too ready to fight against gay marriage and women's rights to choose..

    if you are against abortion, do not have one. do not legislate what everyone else should do with their own bodies....
    Actually it seems to me that the many people on here that are arguing against abortion actually have children.
    Its a slippery slop to decide which stage of human development you deem acceptable of murdering.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    cincybearcat wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i believe that it is a slippery slope to begin making laws to limit rights. laws should be there to grant people rights.

    if you are against abortion, do not have one. do not legislate what everyone else should do with their own bodies....


    Right, like granting rights to the developing human.

    As for the last point....if you are against war, just do fight in one. If you are against corporate greed, just don't buy from those corporations. If you are against prayer in school, just don't pray. :roll:

    Are you saying you support giving eggs, from the moment they are fertilized (assuming that's your definition of pregnancy), the same rights as born people?
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,440
    cincybearcat wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i believe that it is a slippery slope to begin making laws to limit rights. laws should be there to grant people rights.

    if you are against abortion, do not have one. do not legislate what everyone else should do with their own bodies....


    Right, like granting rights to the developing human.

    As for the last point....if you are against war, just do fight in one. If you are against corporate greed, just don't buy from those corporations. If you are against prayer in school, just don't pray. :roll:
    the rights of a living woman supercede the rights of anything developing within her. at the 9 week point the fetus is nothing more than a parasite living off of the woman. sorry to reduce it to that, but by definition of parasite it fits the bill...

    as far as fighting in a war, i won't. i won't pray in a school, and i try to buy locally every chance i get.. :roll:
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,440
    Blockhead wrote:
    Actually it seems to me that the many people on here that are arguing against abortion actually have children.
    Its a slippery slop to decide which stage of human development you deem acceptable of murdering.
    stay out of people's bedrooms. stay out of the decisions made between a woman and her doctor. worry about your own family, not everyone else's potential family.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i believe that it is a slippery slope to begin making laws to limit rights. laws should be there to grant people rights.

    if you are against abortion, do not have one. do not legislate what everyone else should do with their own bodies....


    Right, like granting rights to the developing human.

    As for the last point....if you are against war, just do fight in one. If you are against corporate greed, just don't buy from those corporations. If you are against prayer in school, just don't pray. :roll:
    the rights of a living woman supercede the rights of anything developing within her. at the 9 week point the fetus is nothing more than a parasite living off of the woman. sorry to reduce it to that, but by definition of parasite it fits the bill...

    as far as fighting in a war, i won't. i won't pray in a school, and i try to buy locally every chance i get.. :roll:

    You seem to have no problem with granting right to living parasites...
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i believe that it is a slippery slope to begin making laws to limit rights. laws should be there to grant people rights.

    if you are against abortion, do not have one. do not legislate what everyone else should do with their own bodies....


    Right, like granting rights to the developing human.

    As for the last point....if you are against war, just do fight in one. If you are against corporate greed, just don't buy from those corporations. If you are against prayer in school, just don't pray. :roll:
    the rights of a living woman supercede the rights of anything developing within her. at the 9 week point the fetus is nothing more than a parasite living off of the woman. sorry to reduce it to that, but by definition of parasite it fits the bill...

    as far as fighting in a war, i won't. i won't pray in a school, and i try to buy locally every chance i get.. :roll:

    If and when you have a child make sure you refer to him/her as a parasite when you tell them stories of you and your wifes pregnancy, and if she has a miscarriage make sure yourcomfort her by telling her its no big deal, after all its just a parasite... :roll:
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,440
    Blockhead wrote:
    You seem to have no problem with granting right to living parasites...
    are you referring to people on welfare as human parasites?

    why not start another thread on it and keep your bigoted views out of this one?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,440
    Blockhead wrote:
    If and when you have a child make sure you refer to him/her as a parasite when you tell them stories of you and your wifes pregnancy, and if she has a miscarriage make sure yourcomfort her by telling her its no big deal, after all its just a parasite... :roll:
    why don't you scientifically prove me wrong then?

    because you can't.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Blockhead wrote:
    If and when you have a child make sure you refer to him/her as a parasite when you tell them stories of you and your wifes pregnancy, and if she has a miscarriage make sure yourcomfort her by telling her its no big deal, after all its just a parasite... :roll:
    why don't you scientifically prove me wrong then?

    because you can't.
    Huh???
    According to science - A fetus is a developing human, thats about as basic as it gets, I don't know how you can't grasp this...
    slapping on other definitions you see fit dosen't make it any less human...
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Blockhead wrote:
    You seem to have no problem with granting right to living parasites...
    are you referring to people on welfare as human parasites?

    why not start another thread on it and keep your bigoted views out of this one?
    lol start another thread??? I haven't posted since June 2011...
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,440
    Blockhead wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Blockhead wrote:
    You seem to have no problem with granting right to living parasites...
    are you referring to people on welfare as human parasites?

    why not start another thread on it and keep your bigoted views out of this one?
    lol start another thread??? I haven't posted since June 2011...
    stop derailing this thread by calling welfare recipients "human parasites" in this thread. start a new thread if you want to discuss welfare and or welfare recipients.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    pandora wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    you can be pro choice and not pro abortion. pro means in favor of or in support of. i strongly support the right to choose, thus i am pro choice. i do not like the procedure that is abortion, but i realize that as long as there are human beings there will be abortions. why not make it as safe as possible so that women don't have to go to a back alley place for an abortion or have to resort to throwing themselves down a staircase to end the pregnancy?

    if i were in the situation where i got a woman pregnant i would want her to keep the baby. that is the selfish side of me. i mean, that child is half mine, since i contributed to creating it. but i realize that it is not my body that has to carry that baby and i can not be selfish in that situation.

    i strongly support the law that allows women the choice to decide what happens within her own body. and i strongly believe that any changes to that law and any restrictions on women's rights relating to their reproductive health care would be a huge step backwards for this country.
    that is not selfish at all ...

    what is selfish is a woman not giving up 9 months out of the 900 of her lifetime
    9 months to give life to another human being

    this a choice she will make and may regret one day

    i had a great friend who had an abortion due to rape. when she was deciding if she was going to have the baby or not she decided that she could not have that constant memory of her rape by having that baby.

    i don't know how many people here have been raped and how dramatic it can be. its very dramatic and i can't imagine having that constant reminder of that happening. i have a feeling that would last more than 9 months
  • Suzi78
    Suzi78 Posts: 362
    pandora wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    you can be pro choice and not pro abortion. pro means in favor of or in support of. i strongly support the right to choose, thus i am pro choice. i do not like the procedure that is abortion, but i realize that as long as there are human beings there will be abortions. why not make it as safe as possible so that women don't have to go to a back alley place for an abortion or have to resort to throwing themselves down a staircase to end the pregnancy?

    if i were in the situation where i got a woman pregnant i would want her to keep the baby. that is the selfish side of me. i mean, that child is half mine, since i contributed to creating it. but i realize that it is not my body that has to carry that baby and i can not be selfish in that situation.

    i strongly support the law that allows women the choice to decide what happens within her own body. and i strongly believe that any changes to that law and any restrictions on women's rights relating to their reproductive health care would be a huge step backwards for this country.
    that is not selfish at all ...

    what is selfish is a woman not giving up 9 months out of the 900 of her lifetime
    9 months to give life to another human being

    this a choice she will make and may regret one day

    Do you really believe that the majority of women who choose to have an abortion do so because they don't want to go through 9 months of pregnancy?! It's not about "giving up 9 months out of the 900 of her lifetime", it's about the 18 years after those 9 months where you will be totally responsible for someone's else's life. If you know that you cannot provide for that child and give it a loving and nurturing home, then I believe it is actually selfish to go through with the pregnancy.

    I have several friends that have had abortions and none of them regret that they had them (Yes, I am sure there are also many women that do regret it) Three of them are mothers today. It was simply the wrong time for them to have a child because they weren't emotionally nor financially stable and with a partner that would actually want to be there with them and support them. Instead they chose to get an education and finding the right partner to start a family with. Is it really selfish to want to give your child something better and a more stable home? To say that it's about giving up 9 months out of your life is to trivialize the issue.
    How I choose to feel is how I am

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