you are going to point to some medieval period in history to justify a foreign policy based on war!?? ... these countries have been operating and living in relative peace for a loooong time now ...
they live in the frozen parts of the world with no real natural resorces to speak of right ? and they're sourounded by more dominet countries that could take them out...kinda like mexico so whats to fight for.
my thought on it Cosmo is this, we here on the train do not know for sure what led to war but what of the aggression from SUDAM to the Kurds ? they were out numbered and gunned and wiped out just for a promotion from Sudam and sudam ordered it to boot, so America for what ever reason steps in to stop the blood shed of as someone here said "innocent civilans" so we helped them and the brutalized people of iraq...the stories are endless of what sudam had done to his own people....so we helped right ? don't ask me why ha ha ha.
Godfather
...
Well... you know, the Kurdish genocide in Iraq was in 1988, right? It took us 15 years to respond to it.
And not to justify it... but, from 1980 to 1988, Iraq was in a war with Iran. The Kurds decided to side with Iran and open a front in the north west region of Iraq. The Kurds were/are looking to set up an independent Kurdish state that would be the region in Iraq and carve out a portion of southern Turkey. The hopes were to set up a seperate Kurdish sate where the Kurds in Iran could immigrate to.
Someone who sees justification in military operations to counter aggression and/or revolution could reach the conclusion that these attacks in northern Iraq were done so to protect the oil assets in that region from being lost.
Also, the U.S. supplied Iraq with biological materials such as botulism and anthrax, siding with Iraq and their war efforts against Iran. Those weapons were destroyed after the Iraqi surrender in 1992.
...
And we KNOW what led to the War. The Bush Administration's extreme hatred of Saddam Hussein. You have to remember, Dick Chaney was the Secretary of Defense during the Persian Gulf War in 1991 and Rumsfeld was a National Security Advisor.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
sad as it is..we need them, this world from day one of the first being has fought for or over something
we have to see things for how they really are,agression will never go away and closing our eyes wont make it better.
sorry Idris for the blunt and up-front reply to your question but we only have to look to history to see that it's true.
Godfather.
I agree (to an extent) more or less with that. To be honest, that was a really good post on many levels if it were to stand alone, but seems rather hypocritical when in the context of the general theme of 'war tech saving lives'. Also really no need to apologize for anything. It's all about communication, honest exchange of information,ideas etc. If your delivery is blunt, good. Direct and Straightforward, best way.
--
Drowned, Polaris, Cosmo, J, etc..Have already expressed whatever else I would of added to my above reply.
my thought on it Cosmo is this, we here on the train do not know for sure what led to war but what of the aggression from SUDAM to the Kurds ? they were out numbered and gunned and wiped out just for a promotion from Sudam and sudam ordered it to boot, so America for what ever reason steps in to stop the blood shed of as someone here said "innocent civilans" so we helped them and the brutalized people of iraq...the stories are endless of what sudam had done to his own people....so we helped right ? don't ask me why ha ha ha.
Godfather
...
Well... you know, the Kurdish genocide in Iraq was in 1988, right? It took us 15 years to respond to it.
And not to justify it... but, from 1980 to 1988, Iraq was in a war with Iran. The Kurds decided to side with Iran and open a front in the north west region of Iraq. The Kurds were/are looking to set up an independent Kurdish state that would be the region in Iraq and carve out a portion of southern Turkey. The hopes were to set up a seperate Kurdish sate where the Kurds in Iran could immigrate to.
Someone who sees justification in military operations to counter aggression and/or revolution could reach the conclusion that these attacks in northern Iraq were done so to protect the oil assets in that region from being lost.
Also, the U.S. supplied Iraq with biological materials such as botulism and anthrax, siding with Iraq and their war efforts against Iran. Those weapons were destroyed after the Iraqi surrender in 1992.
...
And we KNOW what led to the War. The Bush Administration's extreme hatred of Saddam Hussein. You have to remember, Dick Chaney was the Secretary of Defense during the Persian Gulf War in 1991 and Rumsfeld was a National Security Advisor.
well I knew I was in the ball park, you know your stuff Cosmo all I can do is pay attention.
Thanks,
Godfather.
IBC's numbers are totally unreliable. Their numbers were gathered from Iraqi civilian deaths reported in the Western media. The number they cite is a fraction of the true number of civilian casualties in that war.
IBC's numbers are totally unreliable. Their numbers were gathered from Iraqi civilian deaths reported in the Western media. The number they cite is a fraction of the true number of civilian casualties in that war.
Right and we also need to add the increase of cancer and congenital birth defects, brain tumors and whatever else the poisons the US dropped on the Iraqis have caused.
The US is responsible for the torture and deaths of Iraqis yet to even be born.
IBC's numbers are totally unreliable. Their numbers were gathered from Iraqi civilian deaths reported in the Western media. The number they cite is a fraction of the true number of civilian casualties in that war.
i totally agree ... but i didn't want the source to be a distraction ... like idris said - it's only the deaths ... we aren't counting the millions of kids that were malnourished and ill during the clinton sanctions ... or the ones suffering from DU ...
I find it almost hilarious that people are debating and complaining the importance of military technology on the internet of all places. The internet of course being developed and made possible thanks to US defense department research.
I find it almost hilarious that people are debating and complaining the importance of military technology on the internet of all places. The internet of course being developed and made possible thanks to US defense department research.
I would guess if we had gone in there, we would still have forces in Baghdad today. We'd be running the country. We would not have been able to get everybody out and bring everybody home. And the final point that I think needs to be made is this question of casualties. I don't think you could have done all of that without significant additional U.S. casualties, and while everybody was tremendously impressed with the low cost of the (1991) conflict, for the 146 Americans who were killed in action and for their families, it wasn't a cheap war. And the question in my mind is, how many additional American casualties is Saddam (Hussein) worth? And the answer is, not that damned many. So, I think we got it right, both when we decided to expel him from Kuwait, but also when the President made the decision that we'd achieved our objectives and we were not going to go get bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq.[78]
And all those support websites that help people...the internet has saved more lives than you can comprehend.
BaM...pOW home run !
Godfather.
This is ridiculous. Anyone seeking medical advice from the internet is not in their right mind. And I've seen webmd. I've actually tried to find out some info from it and it came up with nothing on the topic I was looking into.
I would guess if we had gone in there, we would still have forces in Baghdad today. We'd be running the country. We would not have been able to get everybody out and bring everybody home. And the final point that I think needs to be made is this question of casualties. I don't think you could have done all of that without significant additional U.S. casualties, and while everybody was tremendously impressed with the low cost of the (1991) conflict, for the 146 Americans who were killed in action and for their families, it wasn't a cheap war. And the question in my mind is, how many additional American casualties is Saddam (Hussein) worth? And the answer is, not that damned many. So, I think we got it right, both when we decided to expel him from Kuwait, but also when the President made the decision that we'd achieved our objectives and we were not going to go get bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq.[78]
— Dick Cheney
Guess he changed his mind.
...
George H.W. Bush got it right in 1991. Iraq invaded Kuwait. He built a coalition that included Arab nations with a stake in the outcome. He let his military leaders develop an overall strategic plan with clear objectives and an exit strategy. He allowed the Command and Control to make the tactical decisions. When the military objective was achieved, we were done. He let the U.N. conduct the weapons disposal. He KNEW that to go beyond the specific objectives would lead to a costly, protracted occupation and that he'd lose support of the coalition and the American people.
People do not question his decision to not 'finish the job' in 1991. Well... only the stupid people question it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
This is ridiculous ? Jeanwah how about the net being used by police fire and medical response teams ? or doctors using the net to exchange medical records and other vital information to help each other and people they help ? or air travel to safely fly and maintain aircraft. come on Jeanwah you must obey and love the internet as a friend....
This is ridiculous ? Jeanwah how about the net being used by police fire and medical response teams ? or doctors using the net to exchange medical records and other vital information to help each other and people they help ? or air travel to safely fly and maintain aircraft. come on Jeanwah you must obey and love the internet as a friend....
Godfather.
Alright, alright! The internet does happen to be my friend. But we'll just agree to disagree with the whole idea of war tech saving lives...
This is ridiculous. Anyone seeking medical advice from the internet is not in their right mind. And I've seen webmd. I've actually tried to find out some info from it and it came up with nothing on the topic I was looking into.
This is ridiculous. Anyone seeking medical advice from the internet is not in their right mind. And I've seen webmd. I've actually tried to find out some info from it and it came up with nothing on the topic I was looking into.
This is ridiculous ? Jeanwah how about the net being used by police fire and medical response teams ? or doctors using the net to exchange medical records and other vital information to help each other and people they help ? or air travel to safely fly and maintain aircraft. come on Jeanwah you must obey and love the internet as a friend....
Godfather.
Alright, alright! The internet does happen to be my friend. But we'll just agree to disagree with the whole idea of war tech saving lives...
And all those support websites that help people...the internet has saved more lives than you can comprehend.
BaM...pOW home run !
Godfather.
are you kidding me godfather... youre gonna use a benign tool like the internet to support your argument that military technology saves lives? you know that wasnt within the parameters of your original argument. i find it insulting to our collective intelligence.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The whole hypothesis is kind of odd... me thinks.
Technology (tactics) used by the military saves lives. The lives need to be saved because of military operations has brought death upon their doorsteps. The best way to save lives is to only go to war when it is the absolute last resort. The entire notion of choosing to go to war... then, justify it after the fact has to come to an end.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
they live in the frozen parts of the world with no real natural resorces to speak of right ? and they're sourounded by more dominet countries that could take them out...kinda like mexico so whats to fight for.
Godfather.
Well... you know, the Kurdish genocide in Iraq was in 1988, right? It took us 15 years to respond to it.
And not to justify it... but, from 1980 to 1988, Iraq was in a war with Iran. The Kurds decided to side with Iran and open a front in the north west region of Iraq. The Kurds were/are looking to set up an independent Kurdish state that would be the region in Iraq and carve out a portion of southern Turkey. The hopes were to set up a seperate Kurdish sate where the Kurds in Iran could immigrate to.
Someone who sees justification in military operations to counter aggression and/or revolution could reach the conclusion that these attacks in northern Iraq were done so to protect the oil assets in that region from being lost.
Also, the U.S. supplied Iraq with biological materials such as botulism and anthrax, siding with Iraq and their war efforts against Iran. Those weapons were destroyed after the Iraqi surrender in 1992.
...
And we KNOW what led to the War. The Bush Administration's extreme hatred of Saddam Hussein. You have to remember, Dick Chaney was the Secretary of Defense during the Persian Gulf War in 1991 and Rumsfeld was a National Security Advisor.
Hail, Hail!!!
I agree (to an extent) more or less with that. To be honest, that was a really good post on many levels if it were to stand alone, but seems rather hypocritical when in the context of the general theme of 'war tech saving lives'. Also really no need to apologize for anything. It's all about communication, honest exchange of information,ideas etc. If your delivery is blunt, good. Direct and Straightforward, best way.
--
Drowned, Polaris, Cosmo, J, etc..Have already expressed whatever else I would of added to my above reply.
military technology actually can and does saves lives..... by taking the lives of others. what?!! :crazy:
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
oooo come cate you know what I mean
from US military tech.
Godfather.
well I knew I was in the ball park, you know your stuff Cosmo all I can do is pay attention.
Thanks,
Godfather.
i know what you WROTE. and i know what that meant to me.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Godfather.
im sure i have lost ... afterall im not infallible.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
IBC's numbers are totally unreliable. Their numbers were gathered from Iraqi civilian deaths reported in the Western media. The number they cite is a fraction of the true number of civilian casualties in that war.
Right and we also need to add the increase of cancer and congenital birth defects, brain tumors and whatever else the poisons the US dropped on the Iraqis have caused.
The US is responsible for the torture and deaths of Iraqis yet to even be born.
http://m.democracynow.org/stories/11158
i totally agree ... but i didn't want the source to be a distraction ... like idris said - it's only the deaths ... we aren't counting the millions of kids that were malnourished and ill during the clinton sanctions ... or the ones suffering from DU ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPANET
Godfather.
ohhh I'll bet it has in some way or another
Godfather.
— Dick Cheney
Guess he changed his mind.
www.webmd.com
And all those support websites that help people...the internet has saved more lives than you can comprehend.
BaM...pOW home run !
Godfather.
This is ridiculous. Anyone seeking medical advice from the internet is not in their right mind. And I've seen webmd. I've actually tried to find out some info from it and it came up with nothing on the topic I was looking into.
George H.W. Bush got it right in 1991. Iraq invaded Kuwait. He built a coalition that included Arab nations with a stake in the outcome. He let his military leaders develop an overall strategic plan with clear objectives and an exit strategy. He allowed the Command and Control to make the tactical decisions. When the military objective was achieved, we were done. He let the U.N. conduct the weapons disposal. He KNEW that to go beyond the specific objectives would lead to a costly, protracted occupation and that he'd lose support of the coalition and the American people.
People do not question his decision to not 'finish the job' in 1991. Well... only the stupid people question it.
Hail, Hail!!!
Godfather.
Alright, alright!
I'd say user error.
ha ha.
Godfather.
are you kidding me godfather... youre gonna use a benign tool like the internet to support your argument that military technology saves lives? you know that wasnt within the parameters of your original argument. i find it insulting to our collective intelligence.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Technology (tactics) used by the military saves lives. The lives need to be saved because of military operations has brought death upon their doorsteps. The best way to save lives is to only go to war when it is the absolute last resort. The entire notion of choosing to go to war... then, justify it after the fact has to come to an end.
Hail, Hail!!!