War Tech and lives saved...on both sides
Godfather.
Posts: 12,504
Gimmi's war is over post got me thinking....... 
a war that lasted 10 years and some would say aint over yet (US involvment)
5000 troops lost pluse the loss of civillians right ?
the vietnam war took I believe 10X that amount in military and civillian lives, I don't know the numbers for the wars America has been involved in but I would say thanks to military tech and spending the numbers of dead have decreased all the way around because of new technologys in weapondry so does the $billions spent that may have actually saved lives justisfy itself in that way ? I'm going with a big heck yaeh ! on that one.
Godfather.
a war that lasted 10 years and some would say aint over yet (US involvment)
5000 troops lost pluse the loss of civillians right ?
the vietnam war took I believe 10X that amount in military and civillian lives, I don't know the numbers for the wars America has been involved in but I would say thanks to military tech and spending the numbers of dead have decreased all the way around because of new technologys in weapondry so does the $billions spent that may have actually saved lives justisfy itself in that way ? I'm going with a big heck yaeh ! on that one.
Godfather.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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but innocent people death: no
innocent people suffering: no
legitimate reason for war: resounding no
this thread is a slap in the face of all the families that have suffered lives lost and hardship because of american imperialism ... :twisted:
american imperialism ...? bro !stop with the American imperialism thing and consperisy stuff your starting to worry me :shock: the post was simply a thought that defended military spending and by the way civilian lives were saved also because of new technology.....so ez there man the 60's are over.
Godfather.
So while some lives were no doubt saved by the advance in military technology, that doesn't change how many would have been saved by simply not going to war
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
dude ... it's not a conspiracy ... ask your candidate ron paul about american foreign policy ...
and again - your attitude that only american lives matter is sickening ... what about all the innocent people that have died due to your wars based on lies? ... how quickly people forget ... :twisted:
Yes - certainly decreased American casualties
Possibly - decreased civilian toll, but I am not sure of this. Technology may have made this swing the other way as well.
Justifiable? This is up to opinion. I strongly say no.
who's been sleeping in my bed ?...yes.. chief this is Smart (talking in his shoe phone)..Ward I think you've been a little hard on the Beaver.
Godfather.
I can see where your line of thinking is coming from Godfather....likely something about laser guided bombs being more accurate, and that saves lives....right?
So, overlooking the utter logical fallacy that better bombs save lives for a moment....consider that the US would not be so gung-ho to bomb other countries if they had to put actual boots on the ground before completely annihilating the opposing military, their infrastructure, and their will, from sea and sky.
In other words....that technology is what made americans feel empowered to undertake their middle east crusade. You would not be there if you had to put large numbers of soldiers in harms way from the onset, nor if you had to face your victims. As tough as you think you are, I don't think your citizenry, nor your military, has the stomach for that kind of fight. Turning war into a video game for the aggressor has cost lives on both sides, not saved them.
Godfather, according to the other thread, doesn't see the war as based in lies...he sees it as retaliation for 9/11. Bloodlust. At least he's honest. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to realize that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. His justification for 8 (....actually, it's 20) years of MURDER, is pure ignorance. And now the gall to say they've saved lives....compared to what? carpet bombing?
.... cause uh...you know.....Depleted uranium > napalm :roll:
that's just iraq ...
I am honest enough to admit that there many things I don't know about in our government and I am also honest enough to say that I support my country.
Godfather.
I understand where you are coming from and the rationale behind it...
BUT...
The problem is this... that type of thinking makes it easier to justify sending our troops into harms way. The idea that 'precision bombing' only takes out the 'bad guys' doesn't make sense if you think of it this way:
If a bad guy lives next door to you and is taken our with a 2,000 pound laser guided bomb... you and your family will feel the affects of that attack. Sure, the bad guy was taken out... but, so were you, your family and your neighbors lives and houses because the explosion is not contained to the one, targeted house. Yeah, it is less destructive than the high altitude carpet bombing and low level Napalm strikes on Vietnamese villeges, but still... I don't think you'd be okay with either the bad guy next door.... OR the people behind the bomb that took out your block, right?
Also... since more lives of U.S. soldiers were save by rapid response MedEvac systems and forward operating surgical hospitals... it means we need to bite the bullet and pay for the care those soldiers who came home without their limbs and/or with emotional trauma need, instead of continually treating them like they came home in body bags. Just because they no longer wear the uniform does not mean they no longer need our support.
Hail, Hail!!!
dude ... i'm not sure what to say to you ... no one is saying america is the only bad guy out there ... if that's what you need to believe to sleep at night ... then so be it ... you got so many things wrong in this post - it's no wonder the shit that happens ... your unwavering support of your country allows it to do the things it does ... that's the problem ...
again ... what did iraq have to do with 9/11!? ... ALL the evidence points to the square root of nothing ... ALL the evidence points to bush and company LYING ... yet you are saying we are the ones with conspiracy theories ...
and if i decide to burn your house down ... don't you want to know why? ... based on your response - it doesn't matter ... read up on your country's foreign policy history and tell me america is some beacon of freedom and democracy ...
and again for the third time in this thread ... are the innocent civilians in iraq not an issue to you!?? ... are only american lives all that matter!? ... what did you expect when you made a post lauding new technology that's sole purpose is to kill people? ...
Go after Bin Laden. Iraq had NOTHING to do with it!
Ask yourself the honest question: What was the reason for the USA attacking Iraq? Was it justified?
And if you respond with anything close to 9/11, you need to do some research my friend.
Iraq was a waste of lives and tons of money.
Also, good post Polaris-X
You that build the big guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.
You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.
You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins.
How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do.
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.
And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead.
Godfather.
No arguement here.
Problem being... to our soldiers... what they come home to... sometimes they feel like their families would have been better off if they had died in that shithole. The way we treat our war veterans is a National disgrace. We pretend that PTSD does not exist and they and their families are pretty much left on their own to deal with it. There is a lot of pressure on the families to hold together and the suicide rate is shameful.
My point being, yes, they are alive... but, it doesn't mean they are okay. We need to take care of our veterans... if my taxes are increased to help them, that is okay because that is what a truely grateful nation does. I would much rather feel the financial pain of th decision to go to war, than the physical and emotional pain we subject our troops to endure. We should ALL shoulder the weight of our nation going to war... and not place the entire weight on those we send.
Hail, Hail!!!
perhaps that PTSD is a derivative of an immoral war on innocent people? :(
Godfather.
Godfather.
listen ... you started a thread basically saying weapons are good ... what did you expect!??
as long as the world has to have them I'm glad we have the best
Godfather.
Why?
we have to see things for how they really are,agression will never go away and closing our eyes wont make it better.
sorry Idris for the blunt and up-front reply to your question but we only have to look to history to see that it's true.
Godfather.
why is so many countries like norway, sweden, new zealand, etc.. can live high standard of livings and prosper without invading other countries and killing innocent people?
Those countries also have high happiness rates... Power is obviously not on their priority list.
I agree.
Except... what do you think we should do... when WE are the aggressor, such as in the case of Iraq?
Hail, Hail!!!
Godfather.
you are going to point to some medieval period in history to justify a foreign policy based on war!?? ... these countries have been operating and living in relative peace for a loooong time now ...
my thought on it Cosmo is this, we here on the train do not know for sure what led to war but what of the aggression from SUDAM to the Kurds ? they were out numbered and gunned and wiped out just for a promotion from Sudam and sudam ordered it to boot, so America for what ever reason steps in to stop the blood shed of as someone here said "innocent civilans" so we helped them and the brutalized people of iraq...the stories are endless of what sudam had done to his own people....so we helped right ? don't ask me why ha ha ha.
Godfather