Hold on, teach!! Nobody's talkin bout your wiener, man- so.....
Funny that you think the "point of college is to share knowledge and beliefs in order to get our society somewhere better." And then you never leave... And what does "get our society somewhere better" even mean? Sounds like the stuff guys say to girls in college to get laid.
I think the point of college is to learn all I can about my field of study, so that I can "get" myself "somewhere better". But I am an individualist. I know that Statists feel differently.
Hilarious!
I went to college to get a job. Got my MBA to get a better one.
Done and done.
going to college "to get a job" is a relatively new phenomena related to the outsourcing of traditional "blue collar" labor positions that many high school graduates could find themselves employed in and raise a family from. now, with those jobs in Asia, young people find themselves going to college "to get a job". the effect has been a 'dumbing down' of curriculum for students who are only in school for a certificate, parents who feel that their child deserve a degree simply because they are paying tuition, and an alteration in the focus of higher education from a space of critical thinking to a space of technocratic teaching and memorization. very few professors do what i do in the classroom, and students often struggle with "thinking" over rote memorization. as someone who might be hiring which would you prefer someone who can think and push your company forward, or someone who just does what you say?
going to college "to get a job" is a relatively new phenomena related to the outsourcing of traditional "blue collar" labor positions that many high school graduates could find themselves employed in and raise a family from. now, with those jobs in Asia, young people find themselves going to college "to get a job". the effect has been a 'dumbing down' of curriculum for students who are only in school for a certificate, parents who feel that their child deserve a degree simply because they are paying tuition, and an alteration in the focus of higher education from a space of critical thinking to a space of technocratic teaching and memorization. very few professors do what i do in the classroom, and students often struggle with "thinking" over rote memorization. as someone who might be hiring which would you prefer someone who can think and push your company forward, or someone who just does what you say?
I think tenure has lead to the dumbing down of higher education more than anything else.
I'm not sure what you are trying to do to add to the discussion on this thread. You've demeaned my profession, and even me, then consistently pull one line quotes out of a larger post that addresses your stance for what? All I was saying is that most professors teach students "facts" then give them a scantron exam and call that pedagogy. I think otherwise, but, at the same time, understand why many have shifted their curriculum to that. You haven't really responded to any of my posts except via an ill-informed Gingrich-fueled response about liberal professors (yes there are some, but there are some very conservative professors too) and how they "indoctrinate" students. I responded that it wasn't the case, and rarely is. However, what I find often happens, is that when individuals begin to think for themselves all the easy answers and catchphrases like "Affirmative Action is white guilt" (recheck reality on this one please), "Socialism has never worked" (how's Scandanavia doing?), "America is a Free Market Capitalist country" (the Libertarians agree with me here), "If I work hard enough I can achieve the American Dream" (please), and "That I've earned everything I've got" (just think about that for more than one second) are seriously flawed if not moronic. Some enjoy this side of thinking, others, such as yourself, reject it and retreat to lobbing grenades without actually contributing to the discussion. Is there any substance in anything that you are writing? What sort of research do you have to back up the things you are saying? I'm fine if you disagree with me, but offer something that you didn't borrow from Rush Limbaugh's teleprompter.
going to college "to get a job" is a relatively new phenomena related to the outsourcing of traditional "blue collar" labor positions that many high school graduates could find themselves employed in and raise a family from. now, with those jobs in Asia, young people find themselves going to college "to get a job". the effect has been a 'dumbing down' of curriculum for students who are only in school for a certificate, parents who feel that their child deserve a degree simply because they are paying tuition, and an alteration in the focus of higher education from a space of critical thinking to a space of technocratic teaching and memorization. very few professors do what i do in the classroom, and students often struggle with "thinking" over rote memorization. as someone who might be hiring which would you prefer someone who can think and push your company forward, or someone who just does what you say?
I think tenure has lead to the dumbing down of higher education more than anything else.
Why? I don't have tenure, but the amount of shit I have to do to get it means that I have to be a top teacher, a productive researcher, and contribute to my University in a number of ways. You think I'm going to stop that if/when I get tenure? This is what I love to do, why would that change? Do you have any evidence that tenure leads to dumbing down of education? C'mon add something.
going to college "to get a job" is a relatively new phenomena related to the outsourcing of traditional "blue collar" labor positions that many high school graduates could find themselves employed in and raise a family from. now, with those jobs in Asia, young people find themselves going to college "to get a job". the effect has been a 'dumbing down' of curriculum for students who are only in school for a certificate, parents who feel that their child deserve a degree simply because they are paying tuition, and an alteration in the focus of higher education from a space of critical thinking to a space of technocratic teaching and memorization. very few professors do what i do in the classroom, and students often struggle with "thinking" over rote memorization. as someone who might be hiring which would you prefer someone who can think and push your company forward, or someone who just does what you say?
I think tenure has lead to the dumbing down of higher education more than anything else.
and everyone is entitled to their opinion. do you not think that these professors and researchers work hard to gain their tenure, thus expanding the wealth of knowledge in their chosen field? also, tenure allows these researchers to take their research one step further without the fear of being fired or fear of retribution for their studies. in many cases by advancing their research they stumble onto something earthshattering.
sure there are some lazy teachers/professors out there. but i am not going to let a few of them taint my view of the entire institution of higher education, as some of us are free to do. i am a cynic, but not that big of one.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
going to college "to get a job" is a relatively new phenomena related to the outsourcing of traditional "blue collar" labor positions that many high school graduates could find themselves employed in and raise a family from. now, with those jobs in Asia, young people find themselves going to college "to get a job". the effect has been a 'dumbing down' of curriculum for students who are only in school for a certificate, parents who feel that their child deserve a degree simply because they are paying tuition, and an alteration in the focus of higher education from a space of critical thinking to a space of technocratic teaching and memorization. very few professors do what i do in the classroom, and students often struggle with "thinking" over rote memorization. as someone who might be hiring which would you prefer someone who can think and push your company forward, or someone who just does what you say?
I think tenure has lead to the dumbing down of higher education more than anything else.
and everyone is entitled to their opinion. do you not think that these professors and researchers work hard to gain their tenure, thus expanding the wealth of knowledge in their chosen field? also, tenure allows these researchers to take their research one step further without the fear of being fired or fear of retribution for their studies. in many cases by advancing their research they stumble onto something earthshattering.
sure there are some lazy teachers/professors out there. but i am not going to let a few of them taint my view of the entire institution of higher education, as some of us are free to do. i am a cynic, but not that big of one.
I don't think guaranteed employment is really a good motivator. Plenty of great professors. And plenty of awful ones.
You bring up an interesting point in regards to research. It is that research that is vital to a university ($$$). BUt it is also that research that results in TAs teaching many classes instead of the professor. It's not a perfect world. And I do believe there are plenty of other reasons as to why a college education isn't always something that should be valued (dumbing down). But I certainly believe that professors play a big part in that.
Cincy, I get what you are saying about motivation and your concerns are valid about the focus on research taking away from teaching but consider this:
On average it takes 12 years after undergrad to earn a PhD. This means that most don't get their degree until they are 34-ish, then you have to try to get a job in an increasingly difficult job market because schools would rather hire cheaper adjunct professors than tenure track professors (again to the degradation of education). Let's say you don't get a post-doc and luck your way into a tenure-track job at some low level University. Your tenure clock starts there, and you publish, research, teach, produce service. Now most people leave their University more than once, but let's just say it's once about 3 years in. You're new University wants you to do all that stuff for you and resets your tenure clock and doesn't "count" anything you did at University A. So now you are 37 (paying of school loans until 59), and have a job paying say 55k. At 42 you finally earn tenure after 20 years of busting your hump in order to earn it. You get a 10k pay raise, and move to assistant professor. Still, you don't get paid the "big money" (around 90-100k) until you make it to Full Professor. Those bills are still their for another 17 years, and you really think most people are gonna slow down? It takes another 5 years to get to Full Professor. So at 47 you got Full Professor, tenure, and a job that finally pays you close to what you bring in to the school. You've spent 25 years getting there. Someone with that in their blood isn't likely to piss it away. Do some do it? Sure. But don't non-tenured professionals without fear of being fired by the time they are almost 50? Yes, but neither often do.
Oh, ok. Scandanavia. Now I get it. I'm really learning a lot in your class today, professor.
So, socialism is the goal then? Scandanavia. Scandanavia is what we are striving to be.
This is good stuff man....
:roll:
so, again, you pull something out of context...I just said socialism doesn't fail everywhere (didn't say we had to do it). You're earning an F so far. Not for your opinion (Mike44 and I disagree all the time but he'd get an A I'd say), but because you have nothing to offer.
Oh, ok. Scandanavia. Now I get it. I'm really learning a lot in your class today, professor.
So, socialism is the goal then? Scandanavia. Scandanavia is what we are striving to be.
This is good stuff man....
:roll:
so, again, you pull something out of context...I just said socialism doesn't fail everywhere (didn't say we had to do it). You're earning an F so far. Not for your opinion (Mike44 and I disagree all the time but he'd get an A I'd say), but because you have nothing to offer.
Neither do you, teach. Im dropping this class. It sucks.
so, again, you pull something out of context...I just said socialism doesn't fail everywhere (didn't say we had to do it). You're earning an F so far. Not for your opinion (Mike44 and I disagree all the time but he'd get an A I'd say), but because you have nothing to offer.
I rarely agree with mike44, but he's one of my favourite posters on here. I always feel like I learn something when reading his posts! Same goes for unsung, we disagree, but lots of great info.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
so, again, you pull something out of context...I just said socialism doesn't fail everywhere (didn't say we had to do it). You're earning an F so far. Not for your opinion (Mike44 and I disagree all the time but he'd get an A I'd say), but because you have nothing to offer.
I rarely agree with mike44, but he's one of my favourite posters on here. I always feel like I learn something when reading his posts! Same goes for unsung, we disagree, but lots of great info.
thanks.
Not sure how I feel about rarely being agreed with though
am I that far out there :shock:
but now that I have my A for the day I guess it is time for a schell's
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I'm not sure what you are trying to do to add to the discussion on this thread. You've demeaned my profession, and even me, then consistently pull one line quotes out of a larger post that addresses your stance for what?
so, again, you pull something out of context...I just said socialism doesn't fail everywhere (didn't say we had to do it). You're earning an F so far. Not for your opinion (Mike44 and I disagree all the time but he'd get an A I'd say), but because you have nothing to offer.
I rarely agree with mike44, but he's one of my favourite posters on here. I always feel like I learn something when reading his posts! Same goes for unsung, we disagree, but lots of great info.
thanks.
Not sure how I feel about rarely being agreed with though
am I that far out there :shock:
but now that I have my A for the day I guess it is time for a schell's
Whatever man. I disagree w/ your assessment of W's presidency, I think that history will prove me right. We'll see.
Hey man, I'm really not putting you down personally, but you have posted that you are a college professor, and even the name of your school. Then rant conspiracy theories and lib talking points about Bush in an Obama thread. A lot of companies would fire someone for that- people have been fired for what they post on Facebook, etc. But in the academic world, it's encouraged- in fact, its almost a prerequisite for tenure.
And it's just so exhaustingly typical of college. I've been. I payed. I've had to navigate the minefields of ultra-liberal indoctrinators posed as professors, and regurgitate talking points and bullshit, just to get the grade- just to get the diploma- just to get the job.
But to sit here and pretend we are carrying on an academic discussion about the 43rd Prez, well..... what kind of grade would I get in your class if I presented a paper claiming that Bush did something right? A bad grade, that's what. And you fuckin know it.
Thanks, but I don't have to pretend to be enlightened by ultra-liberal professors anymore.
Pearl Jam rocks. Im sure we agree on that. I kinda hit hard at the teachers in this one, so speak your mind, but after that, lets just agree to disagree on some things, and let it be?
No hard feelings.
Mayday, maybe your inability to formulate an effective argument and back up your position with valid points and facts had to do with your struggles in college? You do it in amt, so I imagine it happened there, too. I suppose it's easier to avoid taking individual responsibility, and instead blame the "ultra-liberal indoctrinators" (did that one come from Sean Hannity?). Conveniently, responsibility becomes optional for the conservative when their deficiencies are exposed.
This is classic conservative hypocrisy. I may have to use your example in other forums I post in.
Whatever man. I disagree w/ your assessment of W's presidency, I think that history will prove me right. We'll see.
Hey man, I'm really not putting you down personally, but you have posted that you are a college professor, and even the name of your school. Then rant conspiracy theories and lib talking points about Bush in an Obama thread. A lot of companies would fire someone for that- people have been fired for what they post on Facebook, etc. But in the academic world, it's encouraged- in fact, its almost a prerequisite for tenure.
And it's just so exhaustingly typical of college. I've been. I payed. I've had to navigate the minefields of ultra-liberal indoctrinators posed as professors, and regurgitate talking points and bullshit, just to get the grade- just to get the diploma- just to get the job.
But to sit here and pretend we are carrying on an academic discussion about the 43rd Prez, well..... what kind of grade would I get in your class if I presented a paper claiming that Bush did something right? A bad grade, that's what. And you fuckin know it.
Thanks, but I don't have to pretend to be enlightened by ultra-liberal professors anymore.
Pearl Jam rocks. Im sure we agree on that. I kinda hit hard at the teachers in this one, so speak your mind, but after that, lets just agree to disagree on some things, and let it be?
No hard feelings.
Mayday, maybe your inability to formulate an effective argument and back up your position with valid points and facts had to do with your struggles in college? You do it in amt, so I imagine it happened there, too. I suppose it's easier to avoid taking individual responsibility, and instead blame the "ultra-liberal indoctrinators" (did that one come from Sean Hannity?). Conveniently, responsibility becomes optional for the conservative when their deficiencies are exposed.
This is classic conservative hypocrisy. I may have to use your example in other forums I post in.
All good Beavers. Its an honor to have my posts cited by you.
so, again, you pull something out of context...I just said socialism doesn't fail everywhere (didn't say we had to do it). You're earning an F so far. Not for your opinion (Mike44 and I disagree all the time but he'd get an A I'd say), but because you have nothing to offer.
I rarely agree with mike44, but he's one of my favourite posters on here. I always feel like I learn something when reading his posts! Same goes for unsung, we disagree, but lots of great info.
thanks.
Not sure how I feel about rarely being agreed with though
am I that far out there :shock:
but now that I have my A for the day I guess it is time for a schell's
We look at issues from a different perspective, but I always learn something, so, keep posting!
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I rarely agree with mike44, but he's one of my favourite posters on here. I always feel like I learn something when reading his posts! Same goes for unsung, we disagree, but lots of great info.
thanks.
Not sure how I feel about rarely being agreed with though
am I that far out there :shock:
but now that I have my A for the day I guess it is time for a schell's
We look at issues from a different perspective, but I always learn something, so, keep posting!
Not sure how I feel about rarely being agreed with though
am I that far out there :shock:
but now that I have my A for the day I guess it is time for a schell's
We look at issues from a different perspective, but I always learn something, so, keep posting!
Is this circle jerk just about over?
:( ... ... :shock:
vinegar strokes
I love you all.
there I am finished
fuckers.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
so, again, you pull something out of context...I just said socialism doesn't fail everywhere (didn't say we had to do it). You're earning an F so far. Not for your opinion (Mike44 and I disagree all the time but he'd get an A I'd say), but because you have nothing to offer.
I rarely agree with mike44, but he's one of my favourite posters on here. I always feel like I learn something when reading his posts! Same goes for unsung, we disagree, but lots of great info.
thanks.
Not sure how I feel about rarely being agreed with though
am I that far out there :shock:
but now that I have my A for the day I guess it is time for a schell's
how about this I agree with your social politics, and even foreign policy beliefs (from what I remember reading), but we are on opposite sides of the fence economically. generally this is what happens when you mix a liberal and a libertarian.
I'm not sure what you are trying to do to add to the discussion on this thread. You've demeaned my profession, and even me, then consistently pull one line quotes out of a larger post that addresses your stance for what?
I'd like to know the answer to this question too.
I think it's more to pick fights to be honest, and it really isn't the purpose of this forum. It's more fun to offer up why you think the way you do and discuss the points IMO. Apparently that's not this person's intention.
Comments
But sounds like a great assignment...
Glad I don't have to jump through those hoops anymore.
Hilarious!
I went to college to get a job. Got my MBA to get a better one.
Done and done.
Sounds fascinating...
I think tenure has lead to the dumbing down of higher education more than anything else.
sure there are some lazy teachers/professors out there. but i am not going to let a few of them taint my view of the entire institution of higher education, as some of us are free to do. i am a cynic, but not that big of one.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I don't think guaranteed employment is really a good motivator. Plenty of great professors. And plenty of awful ones.
You bring up an interesting point in regards to research. It is that research that is vital to a university ($$$). BUt it is also that research that results in TAs teaching many classes instead of the professor. It's not a perfect world. And I do believe there are plenty of other reasons as to why a college education isn't always something that should be valued (dumbing down). But I certainly believe that professors play a big part in that.
So, socialism is the goal then? Scandanavia. Scandanavia is what we are striving to be.
This is good stuff man....
:roll:
:roll:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
On average it takes 12 years after undergrad to earn a PhD. This means that most don't get their degree until they are 34-ish, then you have to try to get a job in an increasingly difficult job market because schools would rather hire cheaper adjunct professors than tenure track professors (again to the degradation of education). Let's say you don't get a post-doc and luck your way into a tenure-track job at some low level University. Your tenure clock starts there, and you publish, research, teach, produce service. Now most people leave their University more than once, but let's just say it's once about 3 years in. You're new University wants you to do all that stuff for you and resets your tenure clock and doesn't "count" anything you did at University A. So now you are 37 (paying of school loans until 59), and have a job paying say 55k. At 42 you finally earn tenure after 20 years of busting your hump in order to earn it. You get a 10k pay raise, and move to assistant professor. Still, you don't get paid the "big money" (around 90-100k) until you make it to Full Professor. Those bills are still their for another 17 years, and you really think most people are gonna slow down? It takes another 5 years to get to Full Professor. So at 47 you got Full Professor, tenure, and a job that finally pays you close to what you bring in to the school. You've spent 25 years getting there. Someone with that in their blood isn't likely to piss it away. Do some do it? Sure. But don't non-tenured professionals without fear of being fired by the time they are almost 50? Yes, but neither often do.
Neither do you, teach. Im dropping this class. It sucks.
Because greedily seeking profit doesn't involve jumping through any hoops, right?
thanks.
Not sure how I feel about rarely being agreed with though
am I that far out there :shock:
but now that I have my A for the day I guess it is time for a schell's
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I'd like to know the answer to this question too.
I second this, keep up the good debate
Mayday, maybe your inability to formulate an effective argument and back up your position with valid points and facts had to do with your struggles in college? You do it in amt, so I imagine it happened there, too. I suppose it's easier to avoid taking individual responsibility, and instead blame the "ultra-liberal indoctrinators" (did that one come from Sean Hannity?). Conveniently, responsibility becomes optional for the conservative when their deficiencies are exposed.
This is classic conservative hypocrisy. I may have to use your example in other forums I post in.
All good Beavers. Its an honor to have my posts cited by you.
Is this circle jerk just about over?
:( ...
vinegar strokes
I love you all.
there I am finished
fuckers.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
someone said "taint"