Thoughts on High Speed Railroad in the U.S.?

brianlux
brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,677
edited November 2011 in A Moving Train
(No, I don't mean how can we make A Moving Train go faster... :lol: )

Seriously, what do you think? I know my friends abroad can't imagine living without their high-speed rail systems and don't understand why we don't have one. Personally, I love the idea of high-speed rail but I'm not sure it's tenable at this time in our history. Although in 2008 we voted for a high-speed rail system here in California, not much progress has been made and the projected costs keep rising. A nationwide system would be even more expensive despite adding more jobs.

The best argument I've heard is the idea of adding those new jobs and providing an alternative to driving by refurbishing our existing rail system and building light rail in our urban areas. Doing so, it is argued, would be much more financially feasible and even our older, standard rail systems are much more energy efficient than trucking, air and auto transport.

I support the rails through RailPac and NARP (The National Association of Railroad Passengers) but I'm just not sure about high-speed.

Any thoughts? Any rail buffs who have information to add and shed light on the discussion?
"It's a sad and beautiful world"
-Roberto Benigni

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Comments

  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    High Speed Rail from Los Angeles to Las Vegas... with one stop in Riverside.
    It could be used as a commuter rail between L.A. and Riverside during the week, with some full length trips. L.A. to Vegas runs on the weekends.
    Anyone who has had to deal with the L.A. to Vegas trip on I-15 knows what I'm talking about.
    ...
    Regarding the L.A. to S.F. rail... I'd visit San Fran more often than I do.
    P.S. Add a stop for the Bridge School Benefits.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
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  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Still waiting on a high speed train from Albany to New York. It's been talked about for years...
  • nsepstru
    nsepstru Posts: 187
    My dad is Danish, born and raised. I had the priveledge of living there for about 7 1/2 years when I was young. And from my memories, we took the train A LOT. We lived in a rural part of Denmark so there was lots of driving as well. But many times when visiting my Grandparents and Aunts/Uncles in the city we usually took the train to and from as well as around the city. It wasn't highspeed rail at all but it was still SUPER convenient and an easy way to travel. I think the likely hood of this happening here in the U.S. seems unlikely especially here in the midwest were public transportation just isn't as feasible. Too many small towns that cannot sustain a bus/train system and driving is a necessity...I like the idea though and think it should be implemented in more urban areas wheter high speed or not.
    I'm not human...I'm Danish!
  • tybird
    tybird Posts: 17,388
    It would be a huge under-taking....rivaling the first trans-continental railroad and the interstate highway system. It can not be piggy-backed on top of the current rail system, which is currently maxed out handling its freight business and Amtrak. In our current ultra-capitalist society, the issue of it paying for itself or making a profit will hold back its development for many years. That being said, I would love it.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,826
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Still waiting on a high speed train from Albany to New York. It's been talked about for years...


    I'm alright with it as long as the MTA doesn't run it. Metro North is a disaster. Always broke, always looking for more money, and now they are taxing people who NEVER use the train.
  • markin ball
    markin ball Posts: 1,076
    Cosmo wrote:
    High Speed Rail from Los Angeles to Las Vegas... with one stop in Riverside.
    It could be used as a commuter rail between L.A. and Riverside during the week, with some full length trips. L.A. to Vegas runs on the weekends.
    Anyone who has had to deal with the L.A. to Vegas trip on I-15 knows what I'm talking about.
    ...
    Regarding the L.A. to S.F. rail... I'd visit San Fran more often than I do.
    P.S. Add a stop for the Bridge School Benefits.

    +1. I guess its been pretty difficult to get the right of way through all the various towns and counties, though.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    I'm not positive, but I think most places that have these super trains and upgraded infrastructure which are modeled after recent technology are a result of wars having destroyed their previously laid plans. The US's infrastructure is based off of plans from the civil war and expansion west...technology has improved as have the trains, but overall, it's far from "modern". Same goes with most our bridge systems.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,470
    if we had high speed rail i would use it.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    I think it makes sense on the eastern seaboard (logistically). You may have enough commuters each day to make it cost-effective as well. But this is a major construction project and would be dragged through a political minefield, especially since it would have to go through so many districts. Imminent domain would have to be utilized and you would have politicians using little old ladies getting kicked out of the house they've lived in for the last 74 years on TV, attacking their opponents who favored it.

    It would be easier to build it in the Midwest due to available farmland, but I don't believe it is necessary and would be a waste of federal funds. I'm staring at a map of the U.S., and there is so much open land between major cities, I don't see it serving an effective purpose for the majority of citizens.

    For the west coast, the environmentalist groups would go ape-shit on proposals and expensive concessions and re-routes would have to be made so that a pond with an endangered turtle would not be disturbed. And I could see it being used from San Diego to L.A., but would it make sense to extend it to San Francisco considering the drive or flight isn't that long?

    When I lived in Seattle, they debated putting in a local rail system and it was a political clusterfuck .... and this was in Seattle! When I left, they were moving forward with an expensive plan that in reality would not serve it's main purpose ... to alleviate traffic.

    The biggest issue is that the traffic and logistic engineers from the 1950's did not plan or foresee using rail in the future. A high speed rail system sounds great in a speech, but not so much on paper.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    in theory - it makes a lot of sense ... but in reality - it's just not going to happen in the US ... at least not for a while ... why? ... because it makes too much sense ... haha
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,895
    polaris_x wrote:
    in theory - it makes a lot of sense ... but in reality - it's just not going to happen in the US ... at least not for a while ... why? ... because it makes too much sense ... haha

    No, it's because we have a bit more land to try and cover.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    cincybearcat wrote:
    No, it's because we have a bit more land to try and cover.

    uhhh ... are you trying to say that a high speed rail network in the northeast corridor doesn't make sense?

    boston-NYC-philly-DC-baltimore??
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    almost seems like a luxury right now
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,470
    cincybearcat wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    in theory - it makes a lot of sense ... but in reality - it's just not going to happen in the US ... at least not for a while ... why? ... because it makes too much sense ... haha

    No, it's because we have a bit more land to try and cover.
    what about china? they have a huge country and high speed rail.

    if people demanded it, it would be done. but we are fine with driving our couple of hundred million cars because "we have the freedom" to not lower ourselves enough to use mass transit...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,895
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    in theory - it makes a lot of sense ... but in reality - it's just not going to happen in the US ... at least not for a while ... why? ... because it makes too much sense ... haha

    No, it's because we have a bit more land to try and cover.
    what about china? they have a huge country and high speed rail.

    if people demanded it, it would be done. but we are fine with driving our couple of hundred million cars because "we have the freedom" to not lower ourselves enough to use mass transit...


    That is true. And there certainly are some areas where it makes sense and is doable.

    I don't know about China's setup, what rails systems do they have? Is it just from big city to big city? Our suburbs make it difficult. Would have been nice if it was included in urban/city planning a long time ago.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,895
    polaris_x wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    No, it's because we have a bit more land to try and cover.

    uhhh ... are you trying to say that a high speed rail network in the northeast corridor doesn't make sense?

    boston-NYC-philly-DC-baltimore??

    Huh? where did I say that?

    I said as a country, a high speed rail system is difficult because of how spread out everything is.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    in theory - it makes a lot of sense ... but in reality - it's just not going to happen in the US ... at least not for a while ... why? ... because it makes too much sense ... haha

    No, it's because we have a bit more land to try and cover.
    what about china? they have a huge country and high speed rail.

    if people demanded it, it would be done. but we are fine with driving our couple of hundred million cars because "we have the freedom" to not lower ourselves enough to use mass transit...
    China has cheap and plentiful labor, a lack of labor and safety regulations, and an iron fist. The U.S. has expensive labor, tons of regulations, and a bunch of pussies running the show that like to stonewall and delay progress.

    It would be nice to have it. We need to make cuts to the budget to justify the $100B allotment though. The cuts would have to be on top of the cuts proposed in the so-called "ten year plan". Otherwise we will never dig ourselves out of the debt-hole.

    So what do we cut to afford a high-speed rail? Defense? Social Security? Education? Panetta is already crying about proposed military cuts. Unions will defend Education. AARP will defend Social Security. We can't even figure out how to make budget cuts. Does adding another $100B to the debt make sense?

    But it would be cool.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    Speaking as a Canadian, I would LOVE a high speed rail corridor from say Windsor to QC. If these trains go as fast as they do, I could get to Toronto from Ottawa in 90 minutes. Hell, it takes me an hour to get downtown Ottawa by bus (I live in the burbs), I would do this in a heartbeat.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,470
    cincybearcat wrote:
    That is true. And there certainly are some areas where it makes sense and is doable.

    I don't know about China's setup, what rails systems do they have? Is it just from big city to big city? Our suburbs make it difficult. Would have been nice if it was included in urban/city planning a long time ago.
    i am not sure. a very close friend of mine lived in shanghai for 3 years and she took the high speed train everywhere. she taught english over there and after 6 or 8 weeks of class they got a coupld of weeks off that allowed her to travel and see a lot of the country. i am not sure if it went to just the big cities, but some of the pics i have seen show them going through some really remote areas. i will have to call her this weekend to try to get some more info. Byrnzie might be better able to answer these questions.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    keeponrockin wrote:
    Speaking as a Canadian, I would LOVE a high speed rail corridor from say Windsor to QC. If these trains go as fast as they do, I could get to Toronto from Ottawa in 90 minutes. Hell, it takes me an hour to get downtown Ottawa by bus (I live in the burbs), I would do this in a heartbeat.

    for sure ... windsor --> london --> kw --> guelph --> mississauga --> toronto --> oshawa --> kingston --> ottawa --> cornwall --> montreal --> trois rivieres -- quebec city ...

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