Greece

FiveB247x

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Greek-turmoil-sends-US-and-apf-2652398969.html?x=0

Proof positive that capitalism in extreme forms is awful. Greece is being responsible to its debts and in order to right the ship on their own terms and maintain a future of their own, this somehow causes the US dollar, Euro and Stock market serious problems. Talk about ass-backwards! Anyone want to try and say that the IMF or WB debt programs help nations, cause this is living proof reiterating the opposite.

It's no coincidence that the richest nations are also the most guilty of this offense... no one practices what they preach. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html

dimitrispearljam

this will be fun...

FiveB247x

Good luck!!!

dimitrispearljam wrote:

this will be fun...

mikepegg44

FiveB247x wrote:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Greek-turmoil-sends-US-and-apf-2652398969.html?x=0

Proof positive that capitalism in extreme forms is awful. Greece is being responsible to its debts and in order to right the ship on their own terms and maintain a future of their own, this somehow causes the US dollar, Euro and Stock market serious problems. Talk about ass-backwards! Anyone want to try and say that the IMF or WB debt programs help nations, cause this is living proof reiterating the opposite.

It's no coincidence that the richest nations are also the most guilty of this offense... no one practices what they preach. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html

I don't know a ton about the greece debt situation, but could someone with knowledge of the situation please explain to me how extreme capitalism caused this? From my understanding it is a government debt situation. I must be way off...any good links? don't have a lot of time to search today.

Jason P

It's all greek to me.

dimitrispearljam

Jason P wrote:

It's all greek to me.

and all chinese to me...

mikepegg44

Jason P wrote:

It's all greek to me.

I would try to look up pictures of a rim shot but am afraid to search on a work computer

FiveB247x

Greece's debt crisis was caused by them overspending. That's on them. The fact that Greece's situation causes massive problems for the EU, US dollar and our economy is a cause of extreme capitalism. Because they are seeking to not take bailouts and adjust the problems directly, it causes all these problems for us....this is a result of globalization, privatization and world economies being in cahoots through the World Bank and IMF debt relief programs. Instead of these organizations existing for the betterment and help of a nation in need, they become nations to plunder and incorporate into their system.

mikepegg44 wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Greek-turmoil-sends-US-and-apf-2652398969.html?x=0

Proof positive that capitalism in extreme forms is awful. Greece is being responsible to its debts and in order to right the ship on their own terms and maintain a future of their own, this somehow causes the US dollar, Euro and Stock market serious problems. Talk about ass-backwards! Anyone want to try and say that the IMF or WB debt programs help nations, cause this is living proof reiterating the opposite.

It's no coincidence that the richest nations are also the most guilty of this offense... no one practices what they preach. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html

I don't know a ton about the greece debt situation, but could someone with knowledge of the situation please explain to me how extreme capitalism caused this? From my understanding it is a government debt situation. I must be way off...any good links? don't have a lot of time to search today.

mikepegg44

FiveB247x wrote:

Greece's debt crisis was caused by them overspending. That's on them. The fact that Greece's situation causes massive problems for the EU, US dollar and our economy is a cause of extreme capitalism. Because they are seeking to not take bailouts and adjust the problems directly, it causes all these problems for us....this is a result of globalization, privatization and world economies being in cahoots through the World Bank and IMF debt relief programs. Instead of these organizations existing for the betterment and help of a nation in need, they become nations to plunder and incorporate into their system.

mikepegg44 wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Greek-turmoil-sends-US-and-apf-2652398969.html?x=0

Proof positive that capitalism in extreme forms is awful. Greece is being responsible to its debts and in order to right the ship on their own terms and maintain a future of their own, this somehow causes the US dollar, Euro and Stock market serious problems. Talk about ass-backwards! Anyone want to try and say that the IMF or WB debt programs help nations, cause this is living proof reiterating the opposite.

It's no coincidence that the richest nations are also the most guilty of this offense... no one practices what they preach. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html

I don't know a ton about the greece debt situation, but could someone with knowledge of the situation please explain to me how extreme capitalism caused this? From my understanding it is a government debt situation. I must be way off...any good links? don't have a lot of time to search today.

do you advocate economic isolationism?

FiveB247x

Things in life don't have to be in extreme forms only.. I don't advocate for isolationism nor do I advocate the economic imperialism which is exactly what we see currently.

mikepegg44 wrote:

do you advocate economic isolationism?

inlet13

FiveB247x wrote:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Greek-turmoil-sends-US-and-apf-2652398969.html?x=0

Proof positive that capitalism in extreme forms is awful. Greece is being responsible to its debts and in order to right the ship on their own terms and maintain a future of their own, this somehow causes the US dollar, Euro and Stock market serious problems. Talk about ass-backwards! Anyone want to try and say that the IMF or WB debt programs help nations, cause this is living proof reiterating the opposite.

It's no coincidence that the richest nations are also the most guilty of this offense... no one practices what they preach. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html

No offense, bro, but apparently you don't understand the problem. The issue here is government, entitlements... and basically Keynesian economics. It's a Greek issue, but the issue is also the EU, which is another form of government. The truth is, this wouldn't be as big of an issue if Greece was isolated and not directly tied to the EU. The reason their debt problems could hurt us all the way over here is common sense. Who will bailout Greece? Germany, maybe France... in other words, the EU. Yet, the EU has a bunch of other countries in this sort of bind lining up behind Greece. Those countries who would help Greece realize this and want austerity measures by Greece because Greeks are spending way over their credit limit, and the truth is every economy over there is in a bit of a bind. Now, Greece is saying they won't partake in that, as if they can keep spending and not get cut off by their creditors. What effects Greece effects the EU. What effects the EU effects the global economy. This is a government problem. Sure, you could argue that it's an issue of global government... but, it's a government problem. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

FiveB247x

I fully understand the source of the problem was government spending... what you fail to acknowledge is why the problem effects so many other places.. that's not solely governments, but more importantly, markets connected via greed and globalization. The entire notion of corporate capitalism narrows the scopes of power and put them all on the same system and in connection like a spider web. That's all we see here.. one domino falling and brushing into the next. And albeit in some respects you are correct that the government is liable, but with that said, what about the rest of the rich nations who do this same exact thing with overspending, etc...yet there is no complaint or adjustment? Have a look at the list in the link I post and see who the biggest culprits of this type of action is... all rich, industrialized nations...and yeah, the same one's who own most of the world's wealth, the same one's collecting the debt of the poor world and the same one's transferring money from public to private hands.

inlet13 wrote:

No offense, bro, but apparently you don't understand the problem. The issue here is government, entitlements... and basically Keynesian economics. It's a Greek issue, but the issue is also the EU, which is another form of government. The truth is, this wouldn't be as big of an issue if Greece was isolated and not directly tied to the EU. The reason their debt problems could hurt us all the way over here is common sense. Who will bailout Greece? Germany, maybe France... in other words, the EU. Yet, the EU has a bunch of other countries in this sort of bind lining up behind Greece. Those countries who would help Greece realize this and want austerity measures by Greece because Greeks are spending way over their credit limit, and the truth is every economy over there is in a bit of a bind. Now, Greece is saying they won't partake in that, as if they can keep spending and not get cut off by their creditors. What effects Greece effects the EU. What effects the EU effects the global economy. This is a government problem. Sure, you could argue that it's an issue of global government... but, it's a government problem. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

inlet13

FiveB247x wrote:

I fully understand the source of the problem was government spending... what you fail to acknowledge is why the problem effects so many other places.. that's not solely governments, but more importantly, markets connected via greed and globalization.

I don't deny that globalization plays a role in the fact that there's a semi-domino effect from one government's poor decision to anothers. But, I spelled out the fact that this has little to do with capitalism. It's actually more about globalized government. Like I said before, it's really an EU issue. Greece is pretty small, they wouldn't be making waves like this alone, even in an ultra capitalist system.... the issue is investors know the EU is tied to Greece, and the EU has a bunch of members (Portugal, Italy, Spain, Ireland) with similar problems... in other words, they can't keep doing this.

FiveB247x wrote:

The entire notion of corporate capitalism narrows the scopes of power and put them all on the same system and in connection like a spider web. That's all we see here.. one domino falling and brushing into the next. And albeit in some respects you are correct that the government is liable, but with that said, what about the rest of the rich nations who do this same exact thing with overspending, etc...yet there is no complaint or adjustment?

I find this last sentence funny. So, let's get this straight... there's no complaint that the U.S. government is overspending? You serious? The entire Tea Party movement was pretty much about that fact. Their goal was to minimize government.

Regardless on whether you believe there's a lot out there who are touting to minimize government spending or not... I welcome you to our clan. I want to minimize government spending because I realize this Greek situation is where we're heading, but it would be much, much worse.

FiveB247x wrote:

Have a look at the list in the link I post and see who the biggest culprits of this type of action is... all rich, industrialized nations...and yeah, the same one's who own most of the world's wealth, the same one's collecting the debt of the poor world and the same one's transferring money from public to private hands.

The culprits of this type of action are countries that have high debt to GDP ratios. So, I don't really know where you're going with this. Does the U.S. have a high debt to GDP ratio? Yes. Should they lower spending? Yes. If they don't could we end up in a situation similar to Greece? Yes. Who's touting more spending? The Obama administration. Why? They think by spending more, that would lessen the debt to GDP ratio by increasing the GDP portion, and they love spending because that's what their base wants. Republicans also engaged in reckless spending in the past too (look at the Bush administration), so it's not just Dems. The "current" Republicans (Tea Party) counter is saying cut spending and by doing so work on the debt portion and then provide tax incentives to increase the GDP part. The issue is they both "could" be right. I side more with the Republican approach because I realize that the Democrat (and Bush Republican approach) is Keynesian, and is really the logic that got us here to begin with.... put simply, it doesn't work. Let's try something new.

mikepegg44

FiveB247x wrote:

Things in life don't have to be in extreme forms only.. I don't advocate for isolationism nor do I advocate the economic imperialism which is exactly what we see currently.

mikepegg44 wrote:

do you advocate economic isolationism?

agreed things don't have to be extreme, but you can either have a global economy or not. You really cannot have half of one, or a little bit of one...

what would you have changed in this situation to avoid the greek debt crisis causing trouble for the rest of the world? How would you have fought the economic imperialism without hurting the countries currently affected by the debt crisis?

gimmesometruth27

i read that the eu is all up in arms because the greek people are now getting to vote on the deal that had been worked out. this is going to get good.

also the head of the military has been sacked. from what i have read greece has a history of military coups...

Kel Varnsen

mikepegg44 wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Things in life don't have to be in extreme forms only.. I don't advocate for isolationism nor do I advocate the economic imperialism which is exactly what we see currently.

mikepegg44 wrote:

do you advocate economic isolationism?

agreed things don't have to be extreme, but you can either have a global economy or not. You really cannot have half of one, or a little bit of one...

what would you have changed in this situation to avoid the greek debt crisis causing trouble for the rest of the world? How would you have fought the economic imperialism without hurting the countries currently affected by the debt crisis?

My limited understanding is that a big part of the problem is a shared currency over a bunch of countires that have independant economies. So Greece has the power to rack up a ton of debt if they want to but when it comes time to pay it off, they don't have the option of printing off a bunch of money to pay it off since they use Euros not their own currency.

inlet13

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i read that the eu is all up in arms because the greek people are now getting to vote on the deal that had been worked out. this is going to get good.

also the head of the military has been sacked. from what i have read greece has a history of military coups...

My bet:

This will go up and down, just like it has (and we'll all see this reflected in our stock market, 1000 up one week, 1000 back the next). The Greek government has to know what's at stake. So, they will pretend to go along with the EU, but at the same time they will gimmick to get on the good side of their citizens. At some point the house of cards will collapse.

This will get very, very ugly. Probably once Italy gets more of the spotlight. Once investors and the general citizen becomes aware of how pervasive this problem is... it will be all out terror.

Recession #2, here we come... just a matter of when.

dimitrispearljam

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i read that the eu is all up in arms because the greek people are now getting to vote on the deal that had been worked out. this is going to get good.

also the head of the military has been sacked. from what i have read greece has a history of military coups...

yep...they changed everyone this morning..

gimmesometruth27

dimitrispearljam wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i read that the eu is all up in arms because the greek people are now getting to vote on the deal that had been worked out. this is going to get good.

also the head of the military has been sacked. from what i have read greece has a history of military coups...

yep...they changed everyone this morning..

wow...

is riot dog still alive?

MotoDC

Kel wrote:

So Greece has the power to rack up a ton of debt if they want to but when it comes time to pay it off, they don't have the option of printing off a bunch of money to pay it off since they use Euros not their own currency.

The EU has strict rules against this, but as you alluded to, apparently no way to enforce it.

Five -- Greece's turmoil has broader impacts because international banks own (i) Greek debt, (ii) derivative instruments whose valuations are based on USD/EUR fluctuations, and (iii) EUR currency directly. You say you don't advocate isolationsism, but do you advocate disallowing these cross-border investments? Or limiting the volumes by law?

inlet -- I wouldn't presume to get into an economic debate with a professor of such, but the above-described investments are indeed at the core of capitalism. Specifically, the ability of capital (money) to find its way to where it will be most effectively (as measured by profit) used. I know you don't need to be told that, but it seems like you and Five are arguing different steps in this process. Govt overspending and entitlements in Greece (though that particular problem is not limited to Greece) are the starter charge, globalization is the TNT. Although I don't believe globalization is necessarily a key tenet of laissez faire capitalism, it is certainly a predictable outcome.

dimitrispearljam

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i read that the eu is all up in arms because the greek people are now getting to vote on the deal that had been worked out. this is going to get good.

also the head of the military has been sacked. from what i have read greece has a history of military coups...

yep...they changed everyone this morning..

wow...

is riot dog still alive?

we had our national celebratiion,kinda your 4th of July 5 days ago..at the half cities the parade didnt happened,cos of the attack of people to politicians...today all the military leader changed,Airforce ,Navy,Army.and the General of all the military..this isnt good..