Greek financial crisis

dimitrispearljam

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

I thought it was Dimitris?

Why now you don't rioting!

Riots are against the law and Constitution not allowed me cos of my job to do strike..
so i watch all this shit from tv..

Liar!
I saw you on the news throwing bricks at the cops!
The PJ shirt gave it away that it was you, the mask did not do the job.

i gave that shirt last year for free..

Pap

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

Why now you don't rioting!

Watch the news please. There are riots all over the country. Strike is a democratic and non-violent mean of protest. A strike can very easily and naturally turns into a riot when a whole nation is indignant with the loss of democracy in the governmental decisions. It's the only way for our politicians and especially the big powers of the world to pay some attention to the economic and social condition of Greece right now.

pandora

:wave:

IrishGuy

Doggystylen wrote:

might be Dimitri's bandwidth costing the country large!

has over 40,000 posts in 3 1/2 years...50 posts a day? wtf?

do we even blink that many times in a day? LOL

Dimitris, there are a couple things i think i'll never see again in my lifetime re: numbers

1) somebody beating cal ripkens winning streak
2) somebody breaking the amount of records gretzky has
3) the amount of posts you have posted...incredible

love the passion man...

But a lot of his posts are just rubbish. Bumps, smilies and quoting someone else without adding anything else make up a lot of his post count yet offer nothing by way of content.

pandora

Content often comes from the heart that others feel

this behind the words or the lack of

dimitrispearljam

IrishGuy wrote:

Doggystylen wrote:

might be Dimitri's bandwidth costing the country large!

has over 40,000 posts in 3 1/2 years...50 posts a day? wtf?

do we even blink that many times in a day? LOL

Dimitris, there are a couple things i think i'll never see again in my lifetime re: numbers

1) somebody beating cal ripkens winning streak
2) somebody breaking the amount of records gretzky has
3) the amount of posts you have posted...incredible

love the passion man...

But a lot of his posts are just rubbish. Bumps, smilies and quoting someone else without adding anything else make up a lot of his post count yet offer nothing by way of content.

yep,i post rubbish cos gets me horny.... the good part is that i dont post about you....

Pap

pandora wrote:

:wave:

:wave: Thank you for your support Pandora. I do believe that in difficult times like these, the only ones who are going to survive and progress are the ones that can think positive. However, when you cannot pay the rent, raise up your family and even worse take care of your very own self I don't know how someone can look at the bright side of life. In my point view, all this anger and indignation was inevitable that someday would burst out. Greek people just can't take it anymore. It's too hard. Pensioners can't afford their medicines, the young cannot study in universities or even worse attend high school and so many others. Our government are really selling our beautiful country out. Loss of democracy and poverty is an explosive mixture. People have the power.

inlet13

The problem is, pardon my bluntness, the Greek's sucking their government's teet.

The issue is debt. Government does not create "lasting" jobs. Nor should they. The Greek's need to realize this is a painful wake-up call and that they have been living a lie for decades. Just like the US, a country can't rely on the government for everything. On top of that, when people do rely on the government, politicians live only in the short run. They will spend and spend and spend, with no concerns for tomorrow (or the long run). The sad part is, the long run does occur eventually. We're living in it right now.

pandora

Pap wrote:

pandora wrote:

:wave:

:wave: Thank you for your support Pandora. I do believe that in difficult times like these, the only ones who are going to survive and progress are the ones that can think positive. However, when you cannot pay the rent, raise up your family and even worse take care of your very own self I don't know how someone can look at the bright side of life. In my point view, all this anger and indignation was inevitable that someday would burst out. Greek people just can't take it anymore. It's too hard. Pensioners can't afford their medicines, the young cannot study in universities or even worse attend high school. Our government are really selling our beautiful country out. Loss of democracy and poverty is an explosive mixture. People have the power.

Together people have power yes, the power of hope for a peaceful change that
may now feel out of reach. I am praying it is not.

Prayers and positive thoughts for your country.

Happiness is all we want, is what we deserve and this we can accomplish.

IrishGuy

Pap wrote:

Our government are really selling our beautiful country out. Loss of democracy and poverty is an explosive mixture. People have the power.

What do you think the Greek government should do then to get out of this crisis? Leave the Euro zone?

dimitrispearljam

IrishGuy wrote:

Pap wrote:

Our government are really selling our beautiful country out. Loss of democracy and poverty is an explosive mixture. People have the power.

What do you think the Greek government should do then to get out of this crisis? Leave the Euro zone?

no,just ask from that Merckel shit lady first to give us back what the Germans stole from us at world war 2 and Already the international courts decided..or we dont give them anything back..and then their fuckin banks will colapse...the ."yes Sir to all" is what we dont like this Goverment did...

Pap

inlet13 wrote:

The problem is, pardon my bluntness, the Greek's sucking their government's teet.

The Greek's need to realize this is a painful wake-up call and that they have been living a lie for decades. They will spend and spend and spend, with no concerns for tomorrow (or the long run). The sad part is, the long run does occur eventually. We're living in it right now.

The Greek people are going to bring the government down very soon. Rest assured. The real problem is that the Greek workers are amongst the hard workers of the European Union and nevertheless after they get retired of their job, they don't have the same privileges with let's say the German workers. Because of the mass media, the rest of the globe believes that all the Greek workers are paid with a good salary. That's not true. Yes indeed, lots of Greek families used to spend without thinking during the past years (the so-called "good" years from an economic perspective). But, as you said this is a big lie. All of them will have to adjust to the new economic conditions. But how? Unemployment and no development are the two main characteristics of my country right now.

Pap

IrishGuy wrote:

Pap wrote:

Our government are really selling our beautiful country out. Loss of democracy and poverty is an explosive mixture. People have the power.

What do you think the Greek government should do then to get out of this crisis? Leave the Euro zone?

No. I don't think that this would be a good political act. Instead, we must back on the development. Development = more jobs, salaries, health, education, tourism, vacations etc. What do you think? None of our big-headed politicians can see that or the big powers don't want us to be a developed country? They simply want to take back as much money as they can and then drop us out of the Union. They just don't care about our future.

inlet13

Pap wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

The problem is, pardon my bluntness, the Greek's sucking their government's teet.

The Greek's need to realize this is a painful wake-up call and that they have been living a lie for decades. They will spend and spend and spend, with no concerns for tomorrow (or the long run). The sad part is, the long run does occur eventually. We're living in it right now.

The Greek people are going to bring the government down very soon. Rest assured. The real problem is that the Greek workers are amongst the hard workers of the European Union and nevertheless after they get retired of their job, they don't have the some privileges with let's say the German workers. Because of the mass media, the rest of the globe believes that all the Greek workers are paid with a good salary. That's not true. Yes indeed, lots of Greek families used to spend without thinking during the past years (the so-called "good" years from an economic perspective). But, as you said this is a big lie. All of them will have to adjust to the new economic conditions. But how? Unemployment and no development are the two main characteristics of my country right now.

No offense, but for some reason, you decided to pick and choose where you quoted me. Why?

It's funny because I feel like you decided not to quote the most important parts. Basically, that the Greek government is doing what the Greek population wanted it to do... provide entitlements for decades (mounting the public debt). The Greek people, or at least the majority, think they're entitled to a "good salary" and "retired privileges". I say... you're entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's what a good government can provide, and that's all. Once a mass of people, in this case the Greek population, becomes so addicted to government handouts, entitlements and "fair" wages.... this is what happens.

To answer your question, how to adjust. Step 1: Stop rioting and dissolve all thought of tying yourselves with unions. They are part of the problem. Step 2: Realize you're going to have to work for your retirement. No one will give it to you. Step 3: If you're unemployed, realize that the job you want, with the nice salary, isn't possible right now. Take a smaller paying job. If everyone in Greece did this to the best of their ability, they would alter the unemployment rate and begin to at least spur economic growth somewhat.

But, it won't happen. Just like the all welfare states, the public is too addicted to government handouts. Greece will be Lehman (in this public debt bubble), the people there want it to be. The sad part is they have no clue what will be in store for them on the other side. You think this is bad now? Just wait.

Pap

inlet13 wrote:

The Greek people, or at least the majority, think they're entitled to a "good salary" and "retired privileges".

To answer your question, how to adjust. Step 1: Stop rioting and dissolve all thought of tying yourselves with unions. They are part of the problem. Step 2: Realize you're going to have to work for your retirement. No one will give it to you. Step 3: If you're unemployed, realize that the job you want, with the nice salary, isn't possible right now. Take a smaller paying job.

Stop rioting and then what? Accept all these unfair and hard measures which are applied to our country by the banks, your country and the European Union? What would you do if you were in the same situation? Do you want us to say to them "Thank you" too? Please stop speaking from sure. I hope you realize that something like this, is never going to happen in your country. What makes you think that the Greek workers don't deserve good salaries and good pensions? Maybe, that's something that you heard from your country's mass media? Have you ever been in Greece? By this "smaller paying job" , I would say probably not even once. One last question: Will you ever work for 14 euros (19.34 dollars) per day, around 10-11 hours a day without insurance? Or worse, will you let your child work for a "very good salary" like this, when he's 22 and already has a BSc and an MSc? Please read my very first post again. Especially since 2009, there are no jobs at all. Even a job like the aforementioned one, is already taken. Now, can you please tell me how do you expect an economic growth if all Greeks start working for 14 euros without insurance ("good salary" - "good pension" --- How could I ever take one without insurance?! :crazy: )? I believe you are influenced by the European Union's announcements. Please don't believe anything you hear on the TV.

inlet13

Pap wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

The Greek people, or at least the majority, think they're entitled to a "good salary" and "retired privileges".

To answer your question, how to adjust. Step 1: Stop rioting and dissolve all thought of tying yourselves with unions. They are part of the problem. Step 2: Realize you're going to have to work for your retirement. No one will give it to you. Step 3: If you're unemployed, realize that the job you want, with the nice salary, isn't possible right now. Take a smaller paying job.

Stop rioting and then what? Accept all these unfair and hard measures which are applied to our country by the banks, your country and the European Union? What would you do if you were in the same situation? Do you want us to say to them "Thank you" too? Please stop speaking from sure. I hope you realize that something like this, is never going to happen in your country. What makes you think that the Greek workers don't deserve good salaries and good pensions? Maybe, that's something that you heard from your country's mass media? Have you ever been in Greece? By this "smaller paying job" , I would say probably not even once. One last question: Will you ever work for 14 euros (19.34 dollars) per day, around 10-11 hours a day without insurance? Or worse, will you let your child work for a "very good salary" like this, when he's 22 and already has a BSc and an MSc? Please read my very first post again. Especially since 2009, there are no jobs at all. Even a job like the aforementioned one, is already taken. Now, can you please tell me how do you expect an economic growth if all Greeks start working for 14 euros without insurance ("good salary" - "good pension" --- How could I ever take one without insurance?! :crazy: )? I believe you are influenced by the European Union's announcements. Please don't believe anything you hear on the TV.

I'm not influenced by anything other economic theory.

First, if you think rioting is productive, let me break the news... it's not. Why? Well, let's start with the fact that a large percentage of the Greek economy is based on tourism. Would you want to travel to a land where you are seeing riots on TV? Probably not. In that sense, the riots are HURTING your economy. But, further, your government is DEAD BROKE. They have NO MONEY. NONE. So, are riots helping by keeping your police (who are paid by the government) busy and perhaps even being forced to pay them overtime? No. The riots are 100% counterproductive.

Second, your definition of fair and the person next door's are most likely different. I'd be willing to bet every single person on this Pearl Jam board has some variant of a definition of "fair". Because of that every single person has a different definition of "fair". When it comes to wages, wages aren't meant to be "fair". They are meant to pay a person for the service or good being provided. If you do better at your job, you probably "have the ability" to get paid more (at that job or at another job). Government doesn't do anything about that, you do. If you know more about how to your job better then someone else, you have the ability to get paid more. If you don't like your current wage, go somewhere else, no one forces you to stay. The problem with what I'm reading from you is this sense of "entitlement". I'm not saying I don't feel bad for you and your people... I do. I sincerely feel for you. But, I am also frustrated because your problems are similar to the ones here in the U.S. I am frustrated because I feel so many people are crying about their problems and asking government for more help... when it's that... "asking the government" that got you here to begin with. We can't go for decades building up government programs, having government interfere in markets (making wages more "fair") without something like this eventually occurring. This is what happens when the government becomes the end all be all of society. I say to any who don't agree with me, take an economics class. This is simple economic theory being played out.

If I had to work for 19.34 a day to feed my family, yes I would work for that. I would also understand that rioting will do nothing to help the underlying problem. On top of that, I would absolutely have my child work for that salary if that's the best job he could get. I don't want my children to grow up spoiled rotten. I worked as a dishwasher when I was younger, I've worked jobs that suck and I am a better person for it. Education is not all about getting good jobs, it's a tool so that you can do the best in certain positions.

And if there are really no jobs, my advice is to move. As far as insurance goes, I think you're crazy for freaking out that much about insurance. Why can't you take a job without insurance? If it comes down to it, and you can't find a job... but, there's one available without insurance... to me, I'd take the one without insurance. I'd say anyone who didn't is crazy.

I don't believe what I hear on TV..... What I believe is this statistic... please read carefully:

Your government debt is well, well over 100% of your country's GDP, even after bailouts. That's just a horrible. To see your countrymen rioting on the street for more government assistance is to put it bluntly.... idiotic.

dimitrispearljam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppJW01Le ... _embedded#!

pandora

dimitrispearljam wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppJW01LeRrk&feature=player_embedded#!

that was beautiful D, I really enjoyed...thank you!

You are strong!

Pap

inlet13 wrote:

If you do better at your job, you probably "have the ability" to get paid more (at that job or at another job).1) Government doesn't do anything about that, you do. If you know more about how to your job better then someone else, you have the ability to get paid more. If you don't like your current wage, go somewhere else, no one forces you to stay.

2)If I had to work for 19.34 a day to feed my family, yes I would work for that. On top of that, I would absolutely have my child work for that salary if that's the best job he could get. I don't want my children to grow up spoiled rotten. I worked as a dishwasher when I was younger, I've worked jobs that suck and I am a better person for it. Education is not all about getting good jobs, it's a tool so that you can do the best in certain positions.

3)And if there are really no jobs, my advice is to move. As far as insurance goes, I think you're crazy for freaking out that much about insurance. Why can't you take a job without insurance? If it comes down to it, and you can't find a job... but, there's one available without insurance... to me, I'd take the one without insurance. I'd say anyone who didn't is crazy.

I believe is this statistic... please read carefully:

Your government debt is well, well over 100% of your country's GDP, even after bailouts. That's just a horrible. To see your countrymen rioting on the street for more government assistance is to put it bluntly.... idiotic.

You believe in some fake statistics that you saw on the TV. Economic theory... Pffft. Please watch the video that Dimitris posted above very carefully. AND PLEASE STOP TALKING FROM SURE!!!

1) How? Maybe through the unions?
2) What are you talking about now?! How old are you and do you have a family? Instead of suggesting a realistic solution (for my country), you describe an idealistic situation that deep inside you know that is never going to happen. For example, you have been working hard for 35 consecutive years and one day you get retired from your job. You absolutely deserve a good pension in order to be able to support yourself (medicines, living costs etc.). At this point, I would like to note that while you were still working and simultaneously with the raising of your family, you made the false movement to let one of your child to make undergraduate and postgraduate studies for a better future (in order not to just become a better person but also to be able to make a family of his own and a have a job that will allow him and his family to live modestly). Do you have any idea how much this kind of studies cost? Tons of money. And you tell me that you will let your child to work for 14 euros per day for 10 hours a day without insurance or even worse that you will be able to raise up your family working for a job like that. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: You have to understand - I know that is hard for you because you live in the country which is not accidentally called the biggest power of the world - that is not about spoiling a young man but that there are no jobs at all, that you cannot survive with 14 euros per day in Greece right now - you cannot even do a second job because you work 10-11 hours a day for that "fair and very good salary" and you're not a robot but a human being- and that is illegal (globally) to work without insurance and because one day you want to rest. Please tell me that this is fair.
3) You think it's easy? And what about the guys that have a family or are in a job for more than 20 years (consequently they are 40+ years old nowadays)? We all have the right to choose to stay in our country and live modestly. What about you? Would you like to leave America? And if the (same?) problem exists in America and you are frustrated about it, why you haven't already left your country?

Pap

dimitrispearljam wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppJW01LeRrk&feature=player_embedded#!

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

THAT'S GREECE!