Americans favor Occupy Wall Street far more than Tea Party

gimmesometruth27

the libertarian aspects of the tea party and the liberal and progressive aspects of ows are not going to mix. they are fundamentally different and i don't see the tea party accepting the ows message and i think the ows has already categorically dismissed and rejected the tea party.

Jason P

mikepegg44 wrote:

there are differences but let's not overstate them.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010 ... ruling.php

"Eighty-five percent of the Democrats polled were opposed to the ruling, while 76% percent of Republicans and 81% of independents also said they were opposed. The nearly unanimous opposition crosses more than just party lines."

Both want government reform so that the government is no longer in the favor doing business. No bailouts, businesses should rise and fall on their own. You see, that isn't that different. So if you can reform politics to remove special interests, crony capitalism...I think both sides can agree that would make things better.
After reforming the entire political system, and mainly the corporate influence on the , then they can get back to disagreeing about where money and how much of it should be spent...they can get back to disagreeing about the role of the federal government...but that doesn't mean they disagree about getting rid of government sponsored crony capitalism.

So both see, at least should see, the current government system as the enemy...and as you know...the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But for all the conspiracy theorists I see on here about where the media drives wedges and all that to keep us all divided...why are they not seeing it here?

The biggest difference is that a lot of the O.W.S. group appear to be in strong favor of giving more money to a broken system as a first priority to fix the system. I think it's a response to being disgruntled, but over time I hope they understand that the request to increase taxes needs to occur after the system is fixed. Pouring more revenue into a broken system just increases the power of that system and lets them avoid an overhaul.

I'm hopeful that this logic will slowly become obvious to O.W.S. supporters. Otherwise, they are wasting their time.

EdsonNascimento

I haven't read this whole thread, but to the title - of course they do. OWS is about hand outs. Tea Party is about no hand outs. Pretty simple to figure out which the 49% that pay no taxes would like.

whygohome

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I haven't read this whole thread, but to the title - of course they do. OWS is about hand outs. Tea Party is about no hand outs. Pretty simple to figure out which the 49% that pay no taxes would like.

What a disgusting response.---this was uncalled for, but I will leave it up to show my mistake for typing in such haste

OWS is not about handouts at all. I don't want and have never received a handout, nor do any of the people I have met. It's about fairness. Do we need to rattle off the statistics of wage stagnation, middle-class decline, factory closures, outsourcing imbalance, CEO and corporate greed and indifference, the poisoning of our rivers and lakes, the murder of 11 men in the gulf of Mexico or 26 men in the coal mines, the profits from war, or should we just continue to tell ourselves that facts don't mean a thing?

EdsonNascimento

whygohome wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I haven't read this whole thread, but to the title - of course they do. OWS is about hand outs. Tea Party is about no hand outs. Pretty simple to figure out which the 49% that pay no taxes would like.

What a disgusting response.

OWS is not about handouts at all. I don't want and have never received a handout, nor do any of the people I have met. It's about fairness. Do we need to rattle off the statistics of wage stagnation, middle-class decline, factory closures, outsourcing imbalance, CEO and corporate greed and indifference, the poisoning of our rivers and lakes, the murder of 11 men in the gulf of Mexico or 26 men in the coal mines, the profits from war, or should we just continue to tell ourselves that facts don't mean a thing?

You're right. I mis-typed. It's 47% not 49%.

How about me not worrying about what other folks richer than me have and worrying about what I can do for myself? It's the generation of everyone gets a trophy come home to roost. Our parents suck.

davidtrios

84% of americans would pay more in hermain cain's 9-9-9 plan...dear God, save us from these houligan, insane, inate tea baggers

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/18/news/ec ... m?iid=Lead

whygohome

EdsonNascimento wrote:

whygohome wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I haven't read this whole thread, but to the title - of course they do. OWS is about hand outs. Tea Party is about no hand outs. Pretty simple to figure out which the 49% that pay no taxes would like.

What a disgusting response.

OWS is not about handouts at all. I don't want and have never received a handout, nor do any of the people I have met. It's about fairness. Do we need to rattle off the statistics of wage stagnation, middle-class decline, factory closures, outsourcing imbalance, CEO and corporate greed and indifference, the poisoning of our rivers and lakes, the murder of 11 men in the gulf of Mexico or 26 men in the coal mines, the profits from war, or should we just continue to tell ourselves that facts don't mean a thing?

You're right. I mis-typed. It's 47% not 49%.

How about me not worrying about what other folks richer than me have and worrying about what I can do for myself? It's the generation of everyone gets a trophy come home to roost. Our parents suck.

***What a disgusting response.---this was uncalled for, but I will leave it up to show my mistake for typing in such haste****

When I read your reply on another thread--though it was a difficult read due to format --the first thing I thought of was Little league: everyone gets a trophy, even the team that finished 2-10. And yes, our--if you are in your 30s--generation was more "babied" than others....possibly.
But, I disagree that OWS has the attitude of "I want what the other guy has, and I don't want to work to get it" is false. I see it as a movement to change the current state of government and the corporate structure: two things that have not been done in decades. The current status quo is unsustainable. The negative trends in living standards, wages, poverty levels all point to that. The American Dream is becoming just that, a dream. The ladders to the middle class are being torn down. The trends--the facts--make this clear.
I don't think we can discount OWS because of some anti-liberal prejudices--I'm not accusing you of this, but this is what I have seen in most of the criticism.

gimmesometruth27

EdsonNascimento wrote:

How about me not worrying about what other folks richer than me have and worrying about what I can do for myself? It's the generation of everyone gets a trophy come home to roost. Our parents suck.

dude it is not about worrying about what rich people have, so stop characterizing this as a movement of jealous people. it is not about jealousy or coveting what other people have. not at all.

i have a master's degree and i own a house. i have a very nice newer (2009) imported luxury car and an suv. i have over $25,000 worth of vintage guitars and amps and gear that i have accumlated over the last 10 years. i do ok for myself being a single man in my 30s in a down economy. i have all of the material possessions i could want. i couldn't give a fuck what the rich guy down the street has. i am not jealous of him or anybody else. i am happy with my lot in life and i do not seek a handout nor do i seek a bunch of material possessions and excesses. i have what i need in life and a few things that i don't, but they are things i wanted and i have worked for.

the movement is not about wanting material possessions or wanting to take them away from others. it is something much less tangible than that. i want everyone to have a fair shake and an oppoutunity to live the american dream as i have lived it. i have done it the way it is supposed to be done. but i can not stand by while bankers and wall street fucks over the regular citizens with predatory loans and banking practices and evicting people from their homes because the banks fail to negotiate with people who were given loans that the banks knew that they could not pay for. i can not stand for the wall street investors who manipulate the market for their own gain at the expense of investors. i can not stand by the speculators who drive up the cost of fuel and things like natural gas and heating oil which all of us need. i can not stand by while corporations cut american jobs and move them overseas leaving american workers unable to find work and provide for their family. i will not stand by and wait for the wealth to trickle down as it has been promised for the last 30 years. i will not stand by and listen to the tired bullshit debate that we can not reset tax levels on the rich to the clinton levels because it will hurt the job creators who coincidently have not created jobs in the last several years. i refuse to listen to the tea party who scoffs at this movement and dismisses it because they feel that government and regulation is the problem. i want the government and the system to work FOR people instead of fucking them over. i want health insurance for all people covered universally, and i want every new baby born to be given 2 things at birth. their social security number and their universal insurance number so they will never be saddled with paralyzing medical expenses. i want capitalism to work for the people instead of for the few at the top.

this is not jealousy, it is about right and wrong and it is about social justice. i want a strong middle class and i want the class warfare that has been waged against the poor and middle class to end. i stand in solidarity with the ows protesters and nobody is going to make me change my feelings on that.

cincybearcat

Why on earth would 1 person have 2 cars other than to destroy the environment that much faster?

gimmesometruth27

cincybearcat wrote:

Why on earth would 1 person have 2 cars other than to destroy the environment that much faster?

the suv is for hauling all of my band shit to shows and i drive it in the winter when it snows and i need 4 wheel drive. the rest of the time is sits in the driveway collecting pollen.. once i am done with music the suv is the first thing to go.

aerial

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

How about me not worrying about what other folks richer than me have and worrying about what I can do for myself? It's the generation of everyone gets a trophy come home to roost. Our parents suck.

dude it is not about worrying about what rich people have, so stop characterizing this as a movement of jealous people. it is not about jealousy or coveting what other people have. not at all.

i have a master's degree and i own a house. i have a very nice newer (2009) imported luxury car and an suv. i have over $25,000 worth of vintage guitars and amps and gear that i have accumlated over the last 10 years. i do ok for myself being a single man in my 30s in a down economy. i have all of the material possessions i could want. i couldn't give a fuck what the rich guy down the street has. i am not jealous of him or anybody else. i am happy with my lot in life and i do not seek a handout nor do i seek a bunch of material possessions and excesses. i have what i need in life and a few things that i don't, but they are things i wanted and i have worked for.

the movement is not about wanting material possessions or wanting to take them away from others. it is something much less tangible than that. i want everyone to have a fair shake and an oppoutunity to live the american dream as i have lived it. i have done it the way it is supposed to be done. but i can not stand by while bankers and wall street fucks over the regular citizens with predatory loans and banking practices and evicting people from their homes because the banks fail to negotiate with people who were given loans that the banks knew that they could not pay for. i can not stand for the wall street investors who manipulate the market for their own gain at the expense of investors. i can not stand by the speculators who drive up the cost of fuel and things like natural gas and heating oil which all of us need. i can not stand by while corporations cut american jobs and move them overseas leaving american workers unable to find work and provide for their family. i will not stand by and wait for the wealth to trickle down as it has been promised for the last 30 years. i will not stand by and listen to the tired bullshit debate that we can not reset tax levels on the rich to the clinton levels because it will hurt the job creators who coincidently have not created jobs in the last several years. i refuse to listen to the tea party who scoffs at this movement and dismisses it because they feel that government and regulation is the problem. i want the government and the system to work FOR people instead of fucking them over. i want health insurance for all people covered universally, and i want every new baby born to be given 2 things at birth. their social security number and their universal insurance number so they will never be saddled with paralyzing medical expenses. i want capitalism to work for the people instead of for the few at the top.

this is not jealousy, it is about right and wrong and it is about social justice. i want a strong middle class and i want the class warfare that has been waged against the poor and middle class to end. i stand in solidarity with the ows protesters and nobody is going to make me change my feelings on that.

I understand were your coming from. Being lumped in with the negatives the media reports about the OWS. The same thing happens to me on here when I stand for the Tea Party…..I get called a racist, uneducated, redneck……which I am so far away from that, that it shocked me the first couple of time it happened, so now I realize they just don’t educate themselves about the Tea Party and just repeat what they have been told.

Jeanwah

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

the libertarian aspects of the tea party and the liberal and progressive aspects of ows are not going to mix. they are fundamentally different and i don't see the tea party accepting the ows message and i think the ows has already categorically dismissed and rejected the tea party.

It's too bad, because together they could make a lot more headway than doing it apart. If people weren't so friggin' stubborn about their own agendas they'd see that progress would actually happen if we actually compromised. I'm starting to think that word is something that people in general see as unattainable because the majority are too selfish and unwilling to change. If we truly wanted change, we'd eat our pride and join forces.

Jeanwah

EdsonNascimento wrote:

How about me not worrying about what other folks richer than me have and worrying about what I can do for myself? It's the generation of everyone gets a trophy come home to roost. Our parents suck.

It's no one's fault but your own. Unbelievable yet so typical, to blame someone else for how we are rather than taking responsibility... :roll:

pjl44

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

the libertarian aspects of the tea party and the liberal and progressive aspects of ows are not going to mix. they are fundamentally different and i don't see the tea party accepting the ows message and i think the ows has already categorically dismissed and rejected the tea party.

It's mostly because no one has any idea what either group stands for. People just impart whatever ideals they want onto either group depending on whatever bias they are going into it with. It's nice to see people blowing off steam, but it won't get productive until you have organization and a clear mission.

Jeanwah

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

dude it is not about worrying about what rich people have, so stop characterizing this as a movement of jealous people. it is not about jealousy or coveting what other people have. not at all.

i have a master's degree and i own a house. i have a very nice newer (2009) imported luxury car and an suv. i have over $25,000 worth of vintage guitars and amps and gear that i have accumlated over the last 10 years. i do ok for myself being a single man in my 30s in a down economy. i have all of the material possessions i could want. i couldn't give a fuck what the rich guy down the street has. i am not jealous of him or anybody else. i am happy with my lot in life and i do not seek a handout nor do i seek a bunch of material possessions and excesses. i have what i need in life and a few things that i don't, but they are things i wanted and i have worked for.

the movement is not about wanting material possessions or wanting to take them away from others. it is something much less tangible than that. i want everyone to have a fair shake and an oppoutunity to live the american dream as i have lived it. i have done it the way it is supposed to be done. but i can not stand by while bankers and wall street fucks over the regular citizens with predatory loans and banking practices and evicting people from their homes because the banks fail to negotiate with people who were given loans that the banks knew that they could not pay for. i can not stand for the wall street investors who manipulate the market for their own gain at the expense of investors. i can not stand by the speculators who drive up the cost of fuel and things like natural gas and heating oil which all of us need. i can not stand by while corporations cut american jobs and move them overseas leaving american workers unable to find work and provide for their family. i will not stand by and wait for the wealth to trickle down as it has been promised for the last 30 years. i will not stand by and listen to the tired bullshit debate that we can not reset tax levels on the rich to the clinton levels because it will hurt the job creators who coincidently have not created jobs in the last several years. i refuse to listen to the tea party who scoffs at this movement and dismisses it because they feel that government and regulation is the problem. i want the government and the system to work FOR people instead of fucking them over. i want health insurance for all people covered universally, and i want every new baby born to be given 2 things at birth. their social security number and their universal insurance number so they will never be saddled with paralyzing medical expenses. i want capitalism to work for the people instead of for the few at the top.

this is not jealousy, it is about right and wrong and it is about social justice. i want a strong middle class and i want the class warfare that has been waged against the poor and middle class to end. i stand in solidarity with the ows protesters and nobody is going to make me change my feelings on that.

For the record, I'm not as well off as you, spent my 401k building a log cabin, lost most of my money to medical bills, can't work so I'm going back to school (racking up more bills) and drive a paid off '98 Taurus. Money does NOT interest me. It does NOT make people happy; it makes people greedy.

But the thing I do have (besides a cozy house) is love and good people called family. This movement is by far not about materials. It's about taking back the power the People once had. People forget that government is supposed to work for us, not the other way around. We're the puppets, not Obama, and nearly everyone, except those in the protests, blindly accept that.

EdsonNascimento

Jeanwah wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

How about me not worrying about what other folks richer than me have and worrying about what I can do for myself? It's the generation of everyone gets a trophy come home to roost. Our parents suck.

It's no one's fault but your own. Unbelievable yet so typical, to blame someone else for how we are rather than taking responsibility... :roll:

EXACTLY! We agree!

whygohome

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

How about me not worrying about what other folks richer than me have and worrying about what I can do for myself? It's the generation of everyone gets a trophy come home to roost. Our parents suck.

dude it is not about worrying about what rich people have, so stop characterizing this as a movement of jealous people. it is not about jealousy or coveting what other people have. not at all.

i have a master's degree and i own a house. i have a very nice newer (2009) imported luxury car and an suv. i have over $25,000 worth of vintage guitars and amps and gear that i have accumlated over the last 10 years. i do ok for myself being a single man in my 30s in a down economy. i have all of the material possessions i could want. i couldn't give a fuck what the rich guy down the street has. i am not jealous of him or anybody else. i am happy with my lot in life and i do not seek a handout nor do i seek a bunch of material possessions and excesses. i have what i need in life and a few things that i don't, but they are things i wanted and i have worked for.

the movement is not about wanting material possessions or wanting to take them away from others. it is something much less tangible than that. i want everyone to have a fair shake and an oppoutunity to live the american dream as i have lived it. i have done it the way it is supposed to be done. but i can not stand by while bankers and wall street fucks over the regular citizens with predatory loans and banking practices and evicting people from their homes because the banks fail to negotiate with people who were given loans that the banks knew that they could not pay for. i can not stand for the wall street investors who manipulate the market for their own gain at the expense of investors. i can not stand by the speculators who drive up the cost of fuel and things like natural gas and heating oil which all of us need. i can not stand by while corporations cut american jobs and move them overseas leaving american workers unable to find work and provide for their family. i will not stand by and wait for the wealth to trickle down as it has been promised for the last 30 years. i will not stand by and listen to the tired bullshit debate that we can not reset tax levels on the rich to the clinton levels because it will hurt the job creators who coincidently have not created jobs in the last several years. i refuse to listen to the tea party who scoffs at this movement and dismisses it because they feel that government and regulation is the problem. i want the government and the system to work FOR people instead of fucking them over. i want health insurance for all people covered universally, and i want every new baby born to be given 2 things at birth. their social security number and their universal insurance number so they will never be saddled with paralyzing medical expenses. i want capitalism to work for the people instead of for the few at the top.

this is not jealousy, it is about right and wrong and it is about social justice. i want a strong middle class and i want the class warfare that has been waged against the poor and middle class to end. i stand in solidarity with the ows protesters and nobody is going to make me change my feelings on that.

:thumbup:

Why is this so difficult to understand? This isn't a selfish, materialistic movement; it's focus is on making the country stronger. Plain and simple.

pjl44

whygohome wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

dude it is not about worrying about what rich people have, so stop characterizing this as a movement of jealous people. it is not about jealousy or coveting what other people have. not at all.

i have a master's degree and i own a house. i have a very nice newer (2009) imported luxury car and an suv. i have over $25,000 worth of vintage guitars and amps and gear that i have accumlated over the last 10 years. i do ok for myself being a single man in my 30s in a down economy. i have all of the material possessions i could want. i couldn't give a fuck what the rich guy down the street has. i am not jealous of him or anybody else. i am happy with my lot in life and i do not seek a handout nor do i seek a bunch of material possessions and excesses. i have what i need in life and a few things that i don't, but they are things i wanted and i have worked for.

the movement is not about wanting material possessions or wanting to take them away from others. it is something much less tangible than that. i want everyone to have a fair shake and an oppoutunity to live the american dream as i have lived it. i have done it the way it is supposed to be done. but i can not stand by while bankers and wall street fucks over the regular citizens with predatory loans and banking practices and evicting people from their homes because the banks fail to negotiate with people who were given loans that the banks knew that they could not pay for. i can not stand for the wall street investors who manipulate the market for their own gain at the expense of investors. i can not stand by the speculators who drive up the cost of fuel and things like natural gas and heating oil which all of us need. i can not stand by while corporations cut american jobs and move them overseas leaving american workers unable to find work and provide for their family. i will not stand by and wait for the wealth to trickle down as it has been promised for the last 30 years. i will not stand by and listen to the tired bullshit debate that we can not reset tax levels on the rich to the clinton levels because it will hurt the job creators who coincidently have not created jobs in the last several years. i refuse to listen to the tea party who scoffs at this movement and dismisses it because they feel that government and regulation is the problem. i want the government and the system to work FOR people instead of fucking them over. i want health insurance for all people covered universally, and i want every new baby born to be given 2 things at birth. their social security number and their universal insurance number so they will never be saddled with paralyzing medical expenses. i want capitalism to work for the people instead of for the few at the top.

this is not jealousy, it is about right and wrong and it is about social justice. i want a strong middle class and i want the class warfare that has been waged against the poor and middle class to end. i stand in solidarity with the ows protesters and nobody is going to make me change my feelings on that.

:thumbup:

Why is this so difficult to understand? This isn't a selfish, materialistic movement; it's focus is on making the country stronger. Plain and simple.

I don't see any points in there that will make our country stronger, just life more comfortable. It's not about value judgments on people, but instead economics and math. Things like universal health care coverage are a really wonderful idea, but won't work in practice financially.

gimmesometruth27

pjl44 wrote:

I don't see any points in there that will make our country stronger, just life more comfortable. It's not about value judgments on people, but instead economics and math. Things like universal health care coverage are a really wonderful idea, but won't work in practice financially.

you don't think so? without the bush tax cuts and the fucking wars we could pay for it.

and don't tell me that medicare and social security are insolvent, because if our government would stop "borrowing" from it we would have no issues with the funding...

and without a strong middle class to buy things the economy will never improve, so yes, we have to be more comfortable, so all of these changes are absolutely necessary..this will in turn make the country stronger...

pjl44

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

pjl44 wrote:

I don't see any points in there that will make our country stronger, just life more comfortable. It's not about value judgments on people, but instead economics and math. Things like universal health care coverage are a really wonderful idea, but won't work in practice financially.

you don't think so? without the bush tax cuts and the fucking wars we could pay for it.

and don't tell me that medicare and social security are insolvent, because if our government would stop "borrowing" from it we would have no issues with the funding...

and without a strong middle class to buy things the economy will never improve, so yes, we have to be more comfortable, so all of these changes are absolutely necessary..this will in turn make the country stronger...

Roll back the Bush tax cuts and end the wars today and it would still take us years to get out of debt, much less finance an additional program. Medicare and Social Security are insolvent because it's unsustainable to begin with and even more so when the life expectancy has increased by 30 years since they were instituted. You can't engineer a "strong middle class;" that only arises from a strong free market where large corporations are not operating with a safety net of our cash from their business partners in Washington.