Americans favor Occupy Wall Street far more than Tea Party

dignin

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plu ... _blog.html


The Morning Plum

By Greg Sargent


* Americans favor Occupy Wall Street far more than Tea Party: Despite nonstop GOP and conservative disparagement of the Wall Street protests, the most detailed polling yet on Occupy Wall Street suggests that the public holds a broadly favorable view of the movement — and, crucially, the positions it holds.

Time released a new poll this morning finding that 54 percent view the Wall Street protests favorably, versus only 23 percent who think the opposite. Interestingly, only 23 percent say they don’t have an opinion, suggesting the protests have succeeded in punching through to the mainstream. Also: The most populist positions espoused by Occupy Wall Street — that the gap between rich and poor has grown too large; that taxes should be raised on the rich; that execs responsible for the meltdown should be prosecuted — all have strong support.

Meanwhile, the poll found that only 27 percent have a favorable view of the Tea Party. My handy Plum Line calculator tells me that this amounts to half the number of those who view Occupy Wall Street favorably.

In fairness, the Tea Party has been in existence since before the 2010 elections, and even has had a seat at the governing table during the debt ceiling and government shutdown debacles, which clearly took their toll on the Tea Party’s image. Occupy Wall Street is just getting started. But it does seem clear that a confluence of events — the protests, Obama’s jobs push, Elizabeth Warren’s Senate candidacy, and the national backlash from the right all these things have provoked — are pushing populist issues such as fair taxation and income inequality to the forefront of the national conversation.

It turns out we don’t live in Tea Party Nation, after all.

mikepegg44

dignin wrote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/the-morning-plum/2011/10/13/gIQAULRHhL_blog.html


The Morning Plum

By Greg Sargent


* Americans favor Occupy Wall Street far more than Tea Party: Despite nonstop GOP and conservative disparagement of the Wall Street protests, the most detailed polling yet on Occupy Wall Street suggests that the public holds a broadly favorable view of the movement — and, crucially, the positions it holds.

Time released a new poll this morning finding that 54 percent view the Wall Street protests favorably, versus only 23 percent who think the opposite. Interestingly, only 23 percent say they don’t have an opinion, suggesting the protests have succeeded in punching through to the mainstream. Also: The most populist positions espoused by Occupy Wall Street — that the gap between rich and poor has grown too large; that taxes should be raised on the rich; that execs responsible for the meltdown should be prosecuted — all have strong support.

Meanwhile, the poll found that only 27 percent have a favorable view of the Tea Party. My handy Plum Line calculator tells me that this amounts to half the number of those who view Occupy Wall Street favorably.

In fairness, the Tea Party has been in existence since before the 2010 elections, and even has had a seat at the governing table during the debt ceiling and government shutdown debacles, which clearly took their toll on the Tea Party’s image. Occupy Wall Street is just getting started. But it does seem clear that a confluence of events — the protests, Obama’s jobs push, Elizabeth Warren’s Senate candidacy, and the national backlash from the right all these things have provoked — are pushing populist issues such as fair taxation and income inequality to the forefront of the national conversation.

It turns out we don’t live in Tea Party Nation, after all.

I wonder where the comment "despite nonstop disparagement by the national media and the DNC, the poll found that 27% have a favorable view of the tea party..."

I don't think FNC and a few congressman and some tea party representatives count as non-stop disparagement. I wonder what a poll from 2009 would say about the tea party

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/12/16/wsjnbc-news-poll-tea-party-tops-democrats-and-republicans/

More than four in 10, 41%, of respondents said they had a very or somewhat favorable view of the Tea Party movement, while 24% said they had a somewhat or very negative view of the group. The Tea Party movement gained notoriety over the summer following a series of protests in Washington, D.C. and other cities over government spending and other U.S. economic policies.

Meanwhile, the Democratic Party, which controls both the White House and Congress, has a 35% positive rating compared with a 45% negative rating.

looks a little familiar....this movement is new, and yes, as soon as it is usurped the favorable ratings will decrease.

Point being, while everyone tries to differentiate the two, specifically the tea party and the Occupiers...they are forgetting that they want the same results...Less government ties to the markets.

cincybearcat

This doesn't surprise me at all.

When almost 50% of people don't pay any income tax and still like having roads, schools, military, police force, welfare, etc.... it's not hard to see why they would support OWS.

It's tougher to force the government to look closely at it's spending than it is to look at who has money and make them give more to the goverment.

dignin

cincybearcat wrote:

This doesn't surprise me at all.

When almost 50% of people don't pay any income tax and still like having roads, schools, military, police force, welfare, etc.... it's not hard to see why they would support OWS.

It's tougher to force the government to look closely at it's spending than it is to look at who has money and make them give more to the goverment.

50% of Americans dont pay income tax.....holy shit :shock: news to me. Can you show some kind of stats to back this up.

mikepegg44

dignin wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

This doesn't surprise me at all.

When almost 50% of people don't pay any income tax and still like having roads, schools, military, police force, welfare, etc.... it's not hard to see why they would support OWS.

It's tougher to force the government to look closely at it's spending than it is to look at who has money and make them give more to the goverment.

50% of Americans dont pay income tax.....holy shit :shock: news to me. Can you show some kind of stats to back this up.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-ha ... 3.html?x=0

that was 2009, not sure if the 3% gap has been bridged now or not, but close enough to 50% for me

Shawshank

dignin wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

This doesn't surprise me at all.

When almost 50% of people don't pay any income tax and still like having roads, schools, military, police force, welfare, etc.... it's not hard to see why they would support OWS.

It's tougher to force the government to look closely at it's spending than it is to look at who has money and make them give more to the goverment.

50% of Americans dont pay income tax.....holy shit :shock: news to me. Can you show some kind of stats to back this up.

Study this: http://www.usdebtclock.org/...it will answer most of your questions.

cincybearcat

dignin wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

This doesn't surprise me at all.

When almost 50% of people don't pay any income tax and still like having roads, schools, military, police force, welfare, etc.... it's not hard to see why they would support OWS.

It's tougher to force the government to look closely at it's spending than it is to look at who has money and make them give more to the goverment.

50% of Americans dont pay income tax.....holy shit :shock: news to me. Can you show some kind of stats to back this up.

Looks like people already posted some links.

Jason P

dignin wrote:

50% of Americans dont pay income tax.....holy shit :shock: news to me. Can you show some kind of stats to back this up.

It's actually 46.9% that didn't pay federal income tax in 2009 (estimated) according to the Tax Policy Center (Urban Institute and Brookings Institution). If someone can shoot holes in the Tax Policy Center's reputation, go for it.

(see link for a breakdown)

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1001289_who_pays.pdf

I heard this stat yesterday and didn't believe it. It's pretty shocking.

sleeplikeadog

So, people aren't paying taxes because they don't make enough money, and have kids, etc. So what? They have to make a living. It doesnt mean that they are lazy and dont work, or want to work. The rich should be taxed more, not the poor

Jason P

sleeplikeadog wrote:

So, people aren't paying taxes because they don't make enough money, and have kids, etc. So what? They have to make a living. It doesnt mean that they are lazy and dont work, or want to work. The rich should be taxed more, not the poor

Create a flat tax and the tax loopholes will be closed and everyone will pay their fair share. Raising taxes doesn't fix the problem because of loopholes (which everyone here says the rich take advantage of).

mikepegg44

sleeplikeadog wrote:

So, people aren't paying taxes because they don't make enough money, and have kids, etc. So what? They have to make a living. It doesnt mean that they are lazy and dont work, or want to work. The rich should be taxed more, not the poor

right, but if you are poor, and pay no taxes at all and are asked a question about a group that is perceived to be taking on the evil 1%...wouldn't it also make sense that they would support that movement.... So if half don't pay taxes and about half are supportive of the movement...

It isn't about the right or wrong of the tax code, it was more about establishing direct correlation between the amount of people who don't pay taxes and the amount of people who are supportive of the OWS movement.

doesn't that make sense?

inmytree

mikepegg44 wrote:

sleeplikeadog wrote:

So, people aren't paying taxes because they don't make enough money, and have kids, etc. So what? They have to make a living. It doesnt mean that they are lazy and dont work, or want to work. The rich should be taxed more, not the poor

right, but if you are poor, and pay no taxes at all and are asked a question about a group that is perceived to be taking on the evil 1%...wouldn't it also make sense that they would support that movement.... So if half don't pay taxes and about half are supportive of the movement...

It isn't about the right or wrong of the tax code, it was more about establishing direct correlation between the amount of people who don't pay taxes and the amount of people who are supportive of the OWS movement.

doesn't that make sense?

I'm pretty sure the poor pay taxes...you know things like sales tax and gas tax......anyhoo, I suppose folks want blood from a turnip....I guess we should go ahead and tax them...that will surely fix all our ills...

brianlux

Jason P wrote:

sleeplikeadog wrote:

So, people aren't paying taxes because they don't make enough money, and have kids, etc. So what? They have to make a living. It doesnt mean that they are lazy and dont work, or want to work. The rich should be taxed more, not the poor

Create a flat tax and the tax loopholes will be closed and everyone will pay their fair share. Raising taxes doesn't fix the problem because of loopholes (which everyone here says the rich take advantage of).

If a person is making lower than livable wage for the area in which they live, have no health insurance, and pay the same percentage of someone who has more income than they can possibly need or spend, how is that fair? Flat tax sounds great until you consider taking anything away from not enough. If all wages were high enough after taxes to be livable then a flat tax might make sense. I think a concern for every individual's well being needs to be considered in all of this. (I'm not saying anyone here is unconcerned- I just mean this in general terms.)

cincybearcat

inmytree wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

sleeplikeadog wrote:

So, people aren't paying taxes because they don't make enough money, and have kids, etc. So what? They have to make a living. It doesnt mean that they are lazy and dont work, or want to work. The rich should be taxed more, not the poor

right, but if you are poor, and pay no taxes at all and are asked a question about a group that is perceived to be taking on the evil 1%...wouldn't it also make sense that they would support that movement.... So if half don't pay taxes and about half are supportive of the movement...

It isn't about the right or wrong of the tax code, it was more about establishing direct correlation between the amount of people who don't pay taxes and the amount of people who are supportive of the OWS movement.

doesn't that make sense?

I'm pretty sure the poor pay taxes...you know things like sales tax and gas tax......anyhoo, I suppose folks want blood from a turnip....I guess we should go ahead and tax them...that will surely fix all our ills...

Again, you missed the point.

mikepegg44

inmytree wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

sleeplikeadog wrote:

So, people aren't paying taxes because they don't make enough money, and have kids, etc. So what? They have to make a living. It doesnt mean that they are lazy and dont work, or want to work. The rich should be taxed more, not the poor

right, but if you are poor, and pay no taxes at all and are asked a question about a group that is perceived to be taking on the evil 1%...wouldn't it also make sense that they would support that movement.... So if half don't pay taxes and about half are supportive of the movement...

It isn't about the right or wrong of the tax code, it was more about establishing direct correlation between the amount of people who don't pay taxes and the amount of people who are supportive of the OWS movement.

doesn't that make sense?

I'm pretty sure the poor pay taxes...you know things like sales tax and gas tax......anyhoo, I suppose folks want blood from a turnip....I guess we should go ahead and tax them...that will surely fix all our ills...

what about my post said tax the poor more?

there is no national sales tax. If they work they pay payroll tax like everyone else. But income is the one people think about, so again...doesn't ~50% support for a movement that is for taxing the rich more and 50% of the people in a country not paying taxes seem to simply be common sense?

let's stick to the topic, not the progressive tax structure. That was the point of the tax comment.

and no, more tax revenue will not fix our problems.

brianlux

mikepegg44 wrote:

and no, more tax revenue will not fix our problems.

That's true especially if you take anything away from those who do not make enough to live on already or take more away from those who make far more than they can ever need or use and not put it to good use.

unsung

dignin wrote:

50% of Americans dont pay income tax.....

Should be 100%.

dignin

mikepegg44 wrote:

dignin wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

This doesn't surprise me at all.

When almost 50% of people don't pay any income tax and still like having roads, schools, military, police force, welfare, etc.... it's not hard to see why they would support OWS.

It's tougher to force the government to look closely at it's spending than it is to look at who has money and make them give more to the goverment.

50% of Americans dont pay income tax.....holy shit :shock: news to me. Can you show some kind of stats to back this up.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-ha ... 3.html?x=0

that was 2009, not sure if the 3% gap has been bridged now or not, but close enough to 50% for me

Wow thanks for the info. More proof that the status quo is not working in America. Shit is broke,

bigdvs

http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/ ... et-indeed/
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/ ... ll-street/
http://pajamasmedia.com/ronradosh/2011/ ... epage=true

slanted but worth reading for the perspective, even if you disagree

mikepegg44

brianlux wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

and no, more tax revenue will not fix our problems.

That's true especially if you take anything away from those who do not make enough to live on already or take more away from those who make far more than they can ever need or use and not put it to good use.

Right on.

inmytree

cincybearcat wrote:

inmytree wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

right, but if you are poor, and pay no taxes at all and are asked a question about a group that is perceived to be taking on the evil 1%...wouldn't it also make sense that they would support that movement.... So if half don't pay taxes and about half are supportive of the movement...

It isn't about the right or wrong of the tax code, it was more about establishing direct correlation between the amount of people who don't pay taxes and the amount of people who are supportive of the OWS movement.

doesn't that make sense?

I'm pretty sure the poor pay taxes...you know things like sales tax and gas tax......anyhoo, I suppose folks want blood from a turnip....I guess we should go ahead and tax them...that will surely fix all our ills...

Again, you missed the point.

someone says "but if you are poor, and pay no taxes" and I say "I'm pretty sure the poor pay taxes"...yeah, I guess I missed something somewhere...