Running in the mascot race at the Twins game tonight on a day where it's 92F out...this sounded like a good idea in May... :think:
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Yeah that corporate event really rubbed me the wrong way, as well as the Oracle one. I couldn't see PJ doing this in 1993, but alas, the times they are a changin'. On the other hand, who the hell am I to judge? I shop at Target all the time, and it's awesome kdiddy got to be there to experience it!
As someone who's had this argument (on this board and in person) several times over, I'm not sure it's practical or fair to really pass judgment on their choices as a band.
For one, it's fine to want your favorite band to espouse your ideals. I certainly like when my favorite bands think like me (it's human nature), and would have a really hard time liking a band that's right-wing/conservative/racist etc. But to insist (as some on this board do from time to time) that the band has sold out or should do X or Y or Z because it's in-line with what Ed or Jeff or Stone said in 19xx or 20xx is unfair because reduces the band to a sponge, whose only purpose is to regurgitate the shit we want them to say. It also nails the band to the wall for shit they said or did decades ago. I can tell you that while my politics have never generally changed, there are definitely differences in my approaches and nuanced distinctions that have grown over the years etc. If we as individuals are allowed that freedom to change, why isn't a band given the same? Why should Pearl Jam be forced to act only in accordance with either (a) what their nutbag fans believe they should do, or (b) what 1995 Pearl Jam said/did/believed? I'll go so far as to say that as long as I have a choice in whether or not I am in this fan club or a fan of their music, even entertaining a critique of what the band does/says etc is unfair to the band but also tramples on the notion of artistic expression. In short, if your heroes do something unheroic, find a new hero.
Secondly, what always comes up in debates about what the band should or shouldn't do (i.e. Target, Oracle etc) is this idea that by getting paid for corporate events, the band is somehow whoring themselves out for profit, that there's somehow something wrong with the band getting paid by a company for a private show, as opposed to the band getting paid by a company to pay a "public" show (i.e. a tour). But really, what's the difference? Whether they're paid by Oracle or Target or whether they're paid by LiveNation or whether they're paid by you and me directly, is there any conceivable difference when they're paid to play music? This private vs. public distinction implies that we as fans somehow are entitled to the band, that they owe us something, as opposed to anyone else willing to pay for their services, because let's face it: when the band performs, it's strictly transactional. We paid to see them, they perform.
Most people then argue, "well, they're getting paid by companies like Target and Oracle and that goes against the band's ideals," to which I'll respond: does it? Most of us assume we know what the band's ideals are, but those are assumptions. Does that band, as a group, have any set group of politics? I have no clue how any of them voted, although I could probably wager a fair guess. The website links to some political groups, but again, those are pretty narrowly defined. It's tough to say being paid by Target or Oracle or LiveNation or Comcast is any better or any worse than one another, but it's very clear that we assume much and know little about the band's politics, to the point where it's unfair to say being paid to play by Oracle or Target or anyone else IS or IS NOT in line with their beliefs.
Some people will persist still though, and argue that the band getting paid for ANY corporate event is bad and grounds for them being called "sell-outs," as if any transaction with corporate entities is itself an evil thing. At a threshold level, these are often people who (a) have access to the internet (which means they themselves participate in transactions with corporations all the time), or (b) buy up posters and merch and CDs and albums (again, keeping the vitals of our capitalist world alive). On it's face, I can appreciate the philosophies of anti-corporatism, anti-commercialism, even anti-capitalism, because it's clear that the free market and big business does well for the free market and big business, but not for you and me. But to take that philosophy and apply it to PJ's decisions is to argue for the death of the band itself. Yep, I said it. If you think Pearl Jam shouldn't get paid for their shows by corporate entities, aside from everything else I've argued, is to suggest that the band should also not be commercial, not promote their albums, not be on tour, not operate fancy websites, not be accessible to virtually anyone outside of ear shot the next time they walk-up and play an acoustic set in a field in an unincorporated township in Minnesota (which sounds sweet by the way ).
These are also the same people who can't provide alternatives to corporate tours or events and who seem to forget that they tried something like this in 1995. And failed (not from lack of effort however). If the band can't play private corporate events because playing for corporations privately is band, then what should they do? And why is getting paid by a company for a "public" (even that term is laughable) event tolerable? Should they only play in fields? Warehouses? Fugazi-style clubs? (again, this all sounds sweet). Should they be paid at all? At least part of anti-corporatism is a rejection of capitalism and if we insist that Pearl Jam operate more in-line with anti-corporatism, the end result is they will not exist as they do. So long as music is commodified, bought and sold, transacted and delivered as a product, Pearl Jam will be inextricably intertwined with corporate entities, some good, some bad.
I apologize for the length, but it's been a slow afternoon and this is a topic that really grates on me. This "PJ has sold out" nonsense is the exact kind of hero-worship that I'm sure Ed and the guys hate now (as they did in 1995), and further the kind of nutbag thinking that sentences the guys to the tyranny and whims of their fans. It's just not fair, logical or defensible, at this day and age (or hell, even in 1995) for fans to persist in critiquing a band's choices as they relate to getting paid or not paid, so long as being a fan is voluntary.
To make any kind of informed, defensible claim that the band has sold out (because that's what all this Target/Oracle stuff is really about), you'd need access to the band's decision-making process for these gigs, their personal beliefs, and also a situation where being a fan is compulsory, none of which we'll ever get.
Wowza, you really must have had a lot of time on your hands vant
Didn't mean to open up this can o' worms again. Simply stated, it rubbed me the wrong way. That's all. Just take the expression at face value - it rubbed me the wrong way. It irked me a bit, nothing more. Did I vow to stop listening to PJ, or stop buying their albums, posters, etc? Nope. It just made me think, "Hmmm, wait a tick...", simply because the decision seemed to have contradicted the band's previous comments/actions, as displayed publicly (vs. Ticketmaster in the 90's, Eddie literally wiping his ass with Rolling Stone, Alpine Valley '03 speech, etc). And by referencing the past, I realized that people and opinions evolve and change over time, hearts and thoughts they fade so to speak. Thus I tried to cover my ass with some guy's famous lyric, "the times they are a changin".
When you had read the news that PJ was playing a corporate gig for Target/Oracle, what was your very first impression? First thing you thought? Before you began analyzing why it was right or wrong, where their ideals and yours aligned, etc... first impression. I am willing to bet that upon first glance you weren't exactly pumped.
Anyhoo, doesn't really matter. Just thought I'd put some context around my original statement that these corporate gigs rubbed me the wrong way. I didn't mean to fuel an argument, have my thinking come off as "nutbag"ish, or subject the band to any tyranny. You had quite the detailed response so I thought I'd stand behind my comment, which was meant to be lighthearted with a hint of criticism - these corporate gigs rubbed me the wrong way.
And just for the record I agree with just about everything you've stated above. Also, this post was NOT directed at you Joe. Okay... I guess it was
Holy shit it's my birthday and I'm posting on a goddamn message board.
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I know, it's all good man! Sorry if I came off as a dick ^, didn't mean to! I complain about the forum becoming a cesspool of negativity, yet I contribute to that at times. Let's get back to the positivity and good stuff! Life is great! Summer is not over yet, and the weather is beautiful in Minnesota. Plenty of reason to be PUMPY!
Running in the mascot race at the Twins game tonight on a day where it's 92F out...this sounded like a good idea in May... :think:
So how'd it go?
Haha easily the most claustrophobic experience I've had in a while. Came in 3rd but purposely went the wrong way for some laughs...
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2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
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2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
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Running in the mascot race at the Twins game tonight on a day where it's 92F out...this sounded like a good idea in May... :think:
So how'd it go?
Haha easily the most claustrophobic experience I've had in a while. Came in 3rd but purposely went the wrong way for some laughs...
Heard about what you did..... way to go! Good thing you're a lawyer in case they come after you saying :nono: "we told you NOT to run on the grass!" haha. can't wait to see that video!
I wonder where "Michael Benton" from the 2003 show is right now. Apparently, he was from Fargo.
Michael, are you out there?
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2009-08-23 Chicago
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2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
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I wonder where "Michael Benton" from the 2003 show is right now. Apparently, he was from Fargo.
Michael, are you out there?
Where were your seats?
It was my first show. And because a friend of mine decided to sleep in and not wake up to buy tickets (I was working that Saturday morning), I was regulated to the upper deck, back left corner.
I wonder where "Michael Benton" from the 2003 show is right now. Apparently, he was from Fargo.
Michael, are you out there?
Where were your seats?
It was my first show. And because a friend of mine decided to sleep in and not wake up to buy tickets (I was working that Saturday morning), I was regulated to the upper deck, back left corner.
We were in the 100 level, I believe section 103, probably 20 rows up, "Stone" side. I suppose I could check but I'd have to find my stub.
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
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2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
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2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
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2011-09-17 Winnipeg
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2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
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10c did block seating that year, and we got floor r, probably right where the yellow/orange divider line is- i remember the walking path was right in front of us, so we had people going to and fro in front of us all show. we were taller dudes, so it wasn't a big deal.
my favorite part of that show was opening with of the girl. getting your favorite song to open a hometown show was a great way to start the night. i also remember the wellstone sticker getting slapped onto jeff's bass, so whenever i see that sticker these days (it's still on there!) it brings me back.
I wonder where "Michael Benton" from the 2003 show is right now. Apparently, he was from Fargo.
Michael, are you out there?
last i heard the freak was purchasing a fucking gun.
Uh, haha, what?
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LUKIN
Released: August 27, 1996
COMPOSER: Vedder
ARTIST: Pearl Jam
Lyrics
Drive down the street, can't find the keys to my own fucking home
I take a walk, so I can curse my ass for being dumb
I make a right after the arches, stinking grease and bone
Stop at the supermarket, people stare like I'm a dog
I'm goin' to Lukin's...
I got a spot at Lukin's...
I knock the door at Lukin's...
Open the fridge, now I know life is worth
I find the key, but I return to find an open door
Some fucking freak who claims I fathered, by rape, her own son
I find my wife, I call the cops, this day's work's never done The last I heard the freak was purchasing a fucking gun
LUKIN
Released: August 27, 1996
COMPOSER: Vedder
ARTIST: Pearl Jam
Lyrics
Drive down the street, can't find the keys to my own fucking home
I take a walk, so I can curse my ass for being dumb
I make a right after the arches, stinking grease and bone
Stop at the supermarket, people stare like I'm a dog
I'm goin' to Lukin's...
I got a spot at Lukin's...
I knock the door at Lukin's...
Open the fridge, now I know life is worth
I find the key, but I return to find an open door
Some fucking freak who claims I fathered, by rape, her own son
I find my wife, I call the cops, this day's work's never done The last I heard the freak was purchasing a fucking gun
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
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2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
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2014-10-09 Lincoln
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2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1 2023-08-31 Wrigley 2 2023-09-15 Fenway 1
Comments
-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
i thought about saying something, but i prefered to watch what played out. :corn:
-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
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-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
2011-09-04 PJ20 | 2011-09-17 Winnipeg | 2012-09-30 Missoula | 2012-11-18 Tulsa EV | 2013-07-19 Chicago | 2013-11-15 Dallas
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2022-09-20 OKC | 2023-08-31 St. Paul | 2023-09-02 St. Paul | 2024-05-16 Las Vegas | 2024-05-18 Las Vegas | 2024-08-31 Chicago
-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
Wowza, you really must have had a lot of time on your hands vant
Didn't mean to open up this can o' worms again. Simply stated, it rubbed me the wrong way. That's all. Just take the expression at face value - it rubbed me the wrong way. It irked me a bit, nothing more. Did I vow to stop listening to PJ, or stop buying their albums, posters, etc? Nope. It just made me think, "Hmmm, wait a tick...", simply because the decision seemed to have contradicted the band's previous comments/actions, as displayed publicly (vs. Ticketmaster in the 90's, Eddie literally wiping his ass with Rolling Stone, Alpine Valley '03 speech, etc). And by referencing the past, I realized that people and opinions evolve and change over time, hearts and thoughts they fade so to speak. Thus I tried to cover my ass with some guy's famous lyric, "the times they are a changin".
When you had read the news that PJ was playing a corporate gig for Target/Oracle, what was your very first impression? First thing you thought? Before you began analyzing why it was right or wrong, where their ideals and yours aligned, etc... first impression. I am willing to bet that upon first glance you weren't exactly pumped.
Anyhoo, doesn't really matter. Just thought I'd put some context around my original statement that these corporate gigs rubbed me the wrong way. I didn't mean to fuel an argument, have my thinking come off as "nutbag"ish, or subject the band to any tyranny. You had quite the detailed response so I thought I'd stand behind my comment, which was meant to be lighthearted with a hint of criticism - these corporate gigs rubbed me the wrong way.
And just for the record I agree with just about everything you've stated above. Also, this post was NOT directed at you Joe. Okay... I guess it was
Holy shit it's my birthday and I'm posting on a goddamn message board.
Pearl Jam should play Minnesota.
...and...
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
2003-06-16 St. Paul
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2013-07-19 Wrigley
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2022-09-16 Nashville
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2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
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2023-09-15 Fenway 1
I know, it's all good man! Sorry if I came off as a dick ^, didn't mean to! I complain about the forum becoming a cesspool of negativity, yet I contribute to that at times. Let's get back to the positivity and good stuff! Life is great! Summer is not over yet, and the weather is beautiful in Minnesota. Plenty of reason to be PUMPY!
Haha easily the most claustrophobic experience I've had in a while. Came in 3rd but purposely went the wrong way for some laughs...
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
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2018-06-18 London 1
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2022-09-16 Nashville
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-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
Please play Minnesota Pearl Jam!!!!
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2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
2023-08-31 Wrigley 2
2023-09-15 Fenway 1
-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
Heard about what you did..... way to go! Good thing you're a lawyer in case they come after you saying :nono: "we told you NOT to run on the grass!" haha. can't wait to see that video!
Michael, are you out there?
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
2018-06-18 London 1
2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
2022-09-16 Nashville
2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
2023-08-31 Wrigley 2
2023-09-15 Fenway 1
Where were your seats?
It was my first show. And because a friend of mine decided to sleep in and not wake up to buy tickets (I was working that Saturday morning), I was regulated to the upper deck, back left corner.
-Christopher Walken
you're=you are
your=showing ownership
The truth has a well known liberal bias.
-Stephen Colbert
We were in the 100 level, I believe section 103, probably 20 rows up, "Stone" side. I suppose I could check but I'd have to find my stub.
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
2018-06-18 London 1
2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
2022-09-16 Nashville
2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
2023-08-31 Wrigley 2
2023-09-15 Fenway 1
my favorite part of that show was opening with of the girl. getting your favorite song to open a hometown show was a great way to start the night. i also remember the wellstone sticker getting slapped onto jeff's bass, so whenever i see that sticker these days (it's still on there!) it brings me back.
last i heard the freak was purchasing a fucking gun.
Uh, haha, what?
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
2018-06-18 London 1
2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
2022-09-16 Nashville
2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
2023-08-31 Wrigley 2
2023-09-15 Fenway 1
LUKIN
Released: August 27, 1996
COMPOSER: Vedder
ARTIST: Pearl Jam
Lyrics
Drive down the street, can't find the keys to my own fucking home
I take a walk, so I can curse my ass for being dumb
I make a right after the arches, stinking grease and bone
Stop at the supermarket, people stare like I'm a dog
I'm goin' to Lukin's...
I got a spot at Lukin's...
I knock the door at Lukin's...
Open the fridge, now I know life is worth
I find the key, but I return to find an open door
Some fucking freak who claims I fathered, by rape, her own son
I find my wife, I call the cops, this day's work's never done
The last I heard the freak was purchasing a fucking gun
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
2018-06-18 London 1
2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
2022-09-16 Nashville
2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
2023-08-31 Wrigley 2
2023-09-15 Fenway 1