Troy Davis

bennett13

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i am a little pissed off at the hypocracy of liberals in the media. i understand the outrage about the Troy Davis case and how people like Al Sharpton and Barry Scheck were railing against the death penalty in this case, yet not one peep about the man who murdered James Byrd in texas. not one sentence condemning texas for the murder they were about to commit.

we can not pick and choose which cases that we are against the death penalty. either we are against it in all cases, or we support it..

The world is not that black and white, sir. You make it sound as if one can either be opposed to the death penalty in all cases, or in favor of the death penalty in all cases. In fact, the law says that anyone in either of these two groups of people cannot serve on a capital jury. Every case is different. Not every case warrants the same punishment. My belief (which is reflected in the law) is that some murder cases warrant life imprisonment, while others warrant the death penalty.
I do agree with you on the hypocricy in the media, however. It's more politically correct (and therefore more convenient to their agenda) to rally behind an accused cop killer than to rally behind a racist piece of shit who dragged that poor guy behind his truck until he died.

Not being intimately familiar with the facts of these two cases, the only comment I'll make is this: If they're guilty, they deserve what's coming to them.

bennett13

brianlux wrote:

Troy Davis' execution has been described as a legal lynching. Around much of the world, we are seen as a murdeous, brutal society. A friend from Germany said this morning:

"Yes, I also followed the case of Troy Davis. They 'killed' him this morning. After so much protest around the world. Yesterday I prayed to God for not executing him, but this was not in his hands. Even pro-death-penalty people in the U.S. were against this, how can they kill a man, when 7 of 9 witnesses changed their mind and nothing was really there that showed he was guilty. I don´t understand things like that!!!"

This is how most of the world sees this act. None of us are happy that Mark MacPhail was killed- that was tragic- but killing Troy Davis was wrong. In my opinion, all killing is wrong. This is a dark day in America.

No more killing, no more hate.

Ok, so Germany is accusing the USA of being a murderous, brutal society???

gimmesometruth27

bennett13 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i am a little pissed off at the hypocracy of liberals in the media. i understand the outrage about the Troy Davis case and how people like Al Sharpton and Barry Scheck were railing against the death penalty in this case, yet not one peep about the man who murdered James Byrd in texas. not one sentence condemning texas for the murder they were about to commit.

we can not pick and choose which cases that we are against the death penalty. either we are against it in all cases, or we support it..

The world is not that black and white, sir. You make it sound as if one can either be opposed to the death penalty in all cases, or in favor of the death penalty in all cases. In fact, the law says that anyone in either of these two groups of people cannot serve on a capital jury. Every case is different. Not every case warrants the same punishment. My belief (which is reflected in the law) is that some murder cases warrant life imprisonment, while others warrant the death penalty.
I do agree with you on the hypocricy in the media, however. It's more politically correct (and therefore more convenient to their agenda) to rally behind an accused cop killer than to rally behind a racist piece of shit who dragged that poor guy behind his truck until he died.

Not being intimately familiar with the facts of these two cases, the only comment I'll make is this: If they're guilty, they deserve what's coming to them.

my point is absolutely black and white. if you do not oppose capital punishment in all cases, then you support capital punishment. in this issue there no different degrees. you either oppose it in all cases, or you believe in it as a form pf punishment. there is no debating that.

and yes, if sharpton and sheck were opposed to the dp in all cases they would have condemned texas. but they didn't. so they are not as opposed to it as they say they are...these fools are the ones who give liberals a bad name. the inconsistency in their position is nothing but hypocracy...

bennett13

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

bennett13 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i am a little pissed off at the hypocracy of liberals in the media. i understand the outrage about the Troy Davis case and how people like Al Sharpton and Barry Scheck were railing against the death penalty in this case, yet not one peep about the man who murdered James Byrd in texas. not one sentence condemning texas for the murder they were about to commit.

we can not pick and choose which cases that we are against the death penalty. either we are against it in all cases, or we support it..

The world is not that black and white, sir. You make it sound as if one can either be opposed to the death penalty in all cases, or in favor of the death penalty in all cases. In fact, the law says that anyone in either of these two groups of people cannot serve on a capital jury. Every case is different. Not every case warrants the same punishment. My belief (which is reflected in the law) is that some murder cases warrant life imprisonment, while others warrant the death penalty.
I do agree with you on the hypocricy in the media, however. It's more politically correct (and therefore more convenient to their agenda) to rally behind an accused cop killer than to rally behind a racist piece of shit who dragged that poor guy behind his truck until he died.

Not being intimately familiar with the facts of these two cases, the only comment I'll make is this: If they're guilty, they deserve what's coming to them.

my point is absolutely black and white. if you do not oppose capital punishment in all cases, then you support capital punishment. in this issue there no different degrees. you either oppose it in all cases, or you believe in it as a form pf punishment. there is no debating that.

and yes, if sharpton and sheck were opposed to the dp in all cases they would have condemned texas. but they didn't. so they are not as opposed to it as they say they are...these fools are the ones who give liberals a bad name. the inconsistency in their position is nothing but hypocracy...

As for your first paragraph, I understand what you were saying now.

As to your second paragraph...agreed. (Have we ever agreed before????)

UpSideDown

MookiesLaw wrote:

The death of Troy Davis will give birth to more activists against the death penalty. Those death penalty supporters who expressed doubt in this case will now begin to doubt an entire system that can execute a man amidst so many unanswered questions.

"Keep the faith. The fight is bigger than me." - Troy Davis

+1

pjhawks

brianlux wrote:

"maybe the rest of the world is wrong."

Not to sound rhetorical, pjhawks, but do you really believe that or is are you saying that merely as a way to poke embers in a heated discussion?

I'm against capital punishment. I believe the killing of Troy Davis was wrong for that reason. Even if I were in favor of capital punishment I would believe the killing of Troy Davis was wrong for all the reason so many people have so obviously pointed out. I'm going to leave this thread- even though I started it- because it is starting to bog down and I'm going to spend some time writing letters and writing a check to NAACP and thanking them for their tireless and brave efforts to save Troy Davis. Smug as this may sound, I have nothing further to say to those who support the killing of Troy Davis. I wish I could convice the few who think his killing was justified that it was wrong, but I've said what I beleive and I'll never be convinced otherwise so...

See you all on another thread elsewhere.

No more killing. No more hate.

well if i believe that the death penalty is just and justice served then i must believe that those other countries are wrong if they don't believe the same. that's what opinions are.

as for 'no more killing no more hate' someone should teach the murderers that 1st wouldn't you say? then we wouldn't have a need for death penalties and executions. we aren't executing nuns and angels here.

edit: and just to be clear i don't believe the execution of troy davis was justified. i do believe in other cases it surely is and has been justified.

g under p

Now this from the state of Texas...Special Last Meals: Texas Prisons End Special Last Meals For Inmates Facing Execution

Lawrence Russell Brewer, who was executed Wednesday for the hate crime slaying of James Byrd Jr. more than a decade ago, asked for two chicken fried steaks, a triple-meat bacon cheeseburger, fried okra, a pound of barbecue, three fajitas, a meat lover's pizza, a pint of ice cream and a slab of peanut butter fudge with crushed peanuts. Prison officials said Brewer didn't eat any of it.

Peace

gimmesometruth27

bennett13 wrote:

As for your first paragraph, I understand what you were saying now.

As to your second paragraph...agreed. (Have we ever agreed before????)

i think that is a first!

haha! cheers!

Byrnzie

bennett13 wrote:

Ok, so Germany is accusing the USA of being a murderous, brutal society???

For your information the Third Reich ended 60 years ago.

If you want to talk about brutal societies then ask the native Americans what happened to them 100 years ago.

Byrnzie

bennett13 wrote:

The world is not that black and white, sir. You make it sound as if one can either be opposed to the death penalty in all cases, or in favor of the death penalty in all cases. In fact, the law says that anyone in either of these two groups of people cannot serve on a capital jury. Every case is different. Not every case warrants the same punishment. My belief (which is reflected in the law) is that some murder cases warrant life imprisonment, while others warrant the death penalty.

Fuck the law.

You make it sound like the law is carved in stone. Laws are created by people. Laws change.
It used to be law that white people and black people couldn't sit next to each other on a bus.

The death penalty is pointless and barbaric.

RFTC

go usa!

we are lumped with iraq, iran, and pakistan for top spots of killing people 'legally'. regretfully, we have no chance of passing up china for the elusive #1 spot.

maybe this execution will be the tipping point to end capital punishment once and for all.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

so for all the "life for a life" folks out there, consider this:

-does that extend to all crimes? I mean, if you accidentally hit me with your car while I'm riding my bike, does that mean I get to jump in your car while you get on my bike and run you over to make it even?

-do we teach our children, when hit on the playground, to hit back?

if you do, you seriously need parenting classes. yeah, I know you're going to say "but it's different, murder isn't the same as a playground fight". No, it's not, but it's the same mentality.

has it ever made you wonder why all these people who are relatives/friends of the victims advocate AGAINST the death penalty? does that not matter to you people?

usamamasan1

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

has it ever made you wonder why all these people who are relatives/friends of the victims advocate AGAINST the death penalty? does that not matter to you people?

not in this case, no....


Mark MacPhail Jr. was 7 weeks old when his father was taken away. He was asleep in his crib while his father worked security at a downtown bus station to help support his growing family.
MacPhail's son and brother watched the execution in silence. Prosecutors and MacPhail's family said after the execution that justice had finally been served.

blueandwhite

usamamasan1 wrote:

Mark MacPhail Jr. was 7 weeks old when his father was taken away. He was asleep in his crib while his father worked security at a downtown bus station to help support his growing family.
MacPhail's son and brother watched the execution in silence. Prosecutors and MacPhail's family said after the execution that justice had finally been served.

And if he was in fact wrongly convicted, was justice still served?

wolfamongwolves

pjhawks wrote:

wolfamongwolves wrote:

... the US is the only developed Western nation in the world that still hasn't abolished the death penalty - the last vestige of the dark ages of bloody-minded retribution - in favour of actual rational justice. The rest of the western world has realised the utter hypocrisy of the death penalty, that it can never make sense to kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong. The US badly needs to catch up and realise this.

maybe the rest of the world is wrong.

pjhawks wrote:

well if i believe that the death penalty is just and justice served then i must believe that those other countries are wrong if they don't believe the same. that's what opinions are.

Well, of course you're entitled to that opinion, but would you care to elaborate at all? Just stating your opinion is never going to convince anyone that it's valid. If you can explain why you hold it, then you might get somewhere.

Personally, I don't think the rest of the world is wrong, given that I know of no empirical evidence whatsoever to suggest that countries who have abolished the death penalty are worse off for having done so, and plenty of reason to believe that they are far better off without it. And I believe that the death penalty is fundamentally unjust, and does not serve justice, because it is arbitrarily applied, because it is used disproportionately against minorities and the poor - those who are unable to abtain adequate legal council, because there is virtually no way to guarantee against errors and no possibility to remedy them when they are made, and because it is based on the hypocrisy that it is wrong for one person to kill someone, but right for someone else to.

So, what's your reasoning for your opinion? Why do you think the rest of the world is wrong? Why do you think state sanctioned killing is just?

bennett13

Byrnzie wrote:

bennett13 wrote:

Ok, so Germany is accusing the USA of being a murderous, brutal society???

For your information the Third Reich ended 60 years ago.

If you want to talk about brutal societies then ask the native Americans what happened to them 100 years ago.

I'm not saying America has a spotless history by any means. Still, even America at its worst can't hold a candle to the Third Reich (which ended, by the way, in large part because of America).
So, I say again: Germany is accusing the USA of being a brutal murderous society?

bennett13

Byrnzie wrote:

bennett13 wrote:

The world is not that black and white, sir. You make it sound as if one can either be opposed to the death penalty in all cases, or in favor of the death penalty in all cases. In fact, the law says that anyone in either of these two groups of people cannot serve on a capital jury. Every case is different. Not every case warrants the same punishment. My belief (which is reflected in the law) is that some murder cases warrant life imprisonment, while others warrant the death penalty.

Fuck the law.

You make it sound like the law is carved in stone. Laws are created by people. Laws change.
It used to be law that white people and black people couldn't sit next to each other on a bus.

The death penalty is pointless and barbaric.

Well, that's where the disagreement lies. You say "fuck the law." Since my occupation required me to uphold the law and the constitution, I simply cannot join you in that assessment. That doesn't mean I believe all laws are just and should remain on the books, but I respect even though laws with which I disagree. A review of the jurisprudencial history of the death penalty will show that the US Supreme Court has been steadily narrowing the scope of cases in which the death penalty can be implimented. This leads me to believe that the death penalty will eventually be abolished in the US. If that happens, I won't agree with it, but I will respect it and uphold it, per my oath.
Cheers!

brianlux

bennett13 wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

bennett13 wrote:

Ok, so Germany is accusing the USA of being a murderous, brutal society???

For your information the Third Reich ended 60 years ago.

If you want to talk about brutal societies then ask the native Americans what happened to them 100 years ago.

I'm not saying America has a spotless history by any means. Still, even America at its worst can't hold a candle to the Third Reich (which ended, by the way, in large part because of America).
So, I say again: Germany is accusing the USA of being a brutal murderous society?

I'm not sure how we got from Troy Davis to The Third Reich and Germany. Yes- the Germany of today has good cause to criticize the killing of Troy Davis. Is your post just an excuse to bash Germany? This is irrelevant and biased- can we move on to intelligent discussion please?

brianlux

Just in from the NAACP:

"Tomorrow, we celebrate the life of Troy Davis.

Thousands of his supporters and loved ones will gather at Jonesville Baptist Church in Savannah, Georgia, to honor the spirit and legacy of a man who has galvanized a global movement for justice.

We would like you to join us, too.

To accommodate the worldwide demand to mark this moment together, as a global community, Troy's family has generously allowed his funeral to be broadcast live on www.NAACP.org.

Beginning at 11 a.m. tomorrow, you will be able to share the experience with the Davis family and Troy's supporters and loved ones around the world.

Troy Davis: A Celebration of Life
Saturday, October 1st, 2011 at 11 a.m.
Watch the service live at www.NAACP.org

Even in the face of death Troy understood how his story could change this country forever. In the days and weeks ahead, we will work to ensure that Troy's mission is carried out, and the brutal practice of the death penalty is abolished in this country once and for all.

Troy's story has touched each of our lives. Please join us tomorrow as we stand alongside his family in this time of reflection and remembrance.

Sincerely yours,

Benjamin Todd Jealous
President and CEO
NAACP"