we are lumped with iraq, iran, and pakistan for top spots of killing people 'legally'. regretfully, we have no chance of passing up china for the elusive #1 spot.
maybe this execution will be the tipping point to end capital punishment once and for all.
San Diego Sports Arena - Oct 25, 2000 MGM Grand - Jul 6, 2006 Cox Arena - Jul 7, 2006 New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - May 1, 2010 Alpine Valley Music Theater - Sep 3-4 2011 Made In America, Philly - Sep 2, 2012 EV, Houston - Nov 12-13, 2012 Dallas-November 2013 OKC-November 2013 ACL 2-October 2014 Fenway Night 1, August 2016 Wrigley, Night 1 August 2018 Fort Worth, Night 1 September 2023 Fort Worth, Night 2 September 2023 Austin, Night 1 September 2023 Austin, Night 2 September 2023
so for all the "life for a life" folks out there, consider this:
-does that extend to all crimes? I mean, if you accidentally hit me with your car while I'm riding my bike, does that mean I get to jump in your car while you get on my bike and run you over to make it even?
-do we teach our children, when hit on the playground, to hit back?
if you do, you seriously need parenting classes. yeah, I know you're going to say "but it's different, murder isn't the same as a playground fight". No, it's not, but it's the same mentality.
has it ever made you wonder why all these people who are relatives/friends of the victims advocate AGAINST the death penalty? does that not matter to you people?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
has it ever made you wonder why all these people who are relatives/friends of the victims advocate AGAINST the death penalty? does that not matter to you people?
not in this case, no....
Mark MacPhail Jr. was 7 weeks old when his father was taken away. He was asleep in his crib while his father worked security at a downtown bus station to help support his growing family.
MacPhail's son and brother watched the execution in silence. Prosecutors and MacPhail's family said after the execution that justice had finally been served.
Mark MacPhail Jr. was 7 weeks old when his father was taken away. He was asleep in his crib while his father worked security at a downtown bus station to help support his growing family.
MacPhail's son and brother watched the execution in silence. Prosecutors and MacPhail's family said after the execution that justice had finally been served.
And if he was in fact wrongly convicted, was justice still served?
... the US is the only developed Western nation in the world that still hasn't abolished the death penalty - the last vestige of the dark ages of bloody-minded retribution - in favour of actual rational justice. The rest of the western world has realised the utter hypocrisy of the death penalty, that it can never make sense to kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong. The US badly needs to catch up and realise this.
well if i believe that the death penalty is just and justice served then i must believe that those other countries are wrong if they don't believe the same. that's what opinions are.
Well, of course you're entitled to that opinion, but would you care to elaborate at all? Just stating your opinion is never going to convince anyone that it's valid. If you can explain why you hold it, then you might get somewhere.
Personally, I don't think the rest of the world is wrong, given that I know of no empirical evidence whatsoever to suggest that countries who have abolished the death penalty are worse off for having done so, and plenty of reason to believe that they are far better off without it. And I believe that the death penalty is fundamentally unjust, and does not serve justice, because it is arbitrarily applied, because it is used disproportionately against minorities and the poor - those who are unable to abtain adequate legal council, because there is virtually no way to guarantee against errors and no possibility to remedy them when they are made, and because it is based on the hypocrisy that it is wrong for one person to kill someone, but right for someone else to.
So, what's your reasoning for your opinion? Why do you think the rest of the world is wrong? Why do you think state sanctioned killing is just?
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Ok, so Germany is accusing the USA of being a murderous, brutal society???
For your information the Third Reich ended 60 years ago.
If you want to talk about brutal societies then ask the native Americans what happened to them 100 years ago.
I'm not saying America has a spotless history by any means. Still, even America at its worst can't hold a candle to the Third Reich (which ended, by the way, in large part because of America).
So, I say again: Germany is accusing the USA of being a brutal murderous society?
The world is not that black and white, sir. You make it sound as if one can either be opposed to the death penalty in all cases, or in favor of the death penalty in all cases. In fact, the law says that anyone in either of these two groups of people cannot serve on a capital jury. Every case is different. Not every case warrants the same punishment. My belief (which is reflected in the law) is that some murder cases warrant life imprisonment, while others warrant the death penalty.
Fuck the law.
You make it sound like the law is carved in stone. Laws are created by people. Laws change.
It used to be law that white people and black people couldn't sit next to each other on a bus.
The death penalty is pointless and barbaric.
Well, that's where the disagreement lies. You say "fuck the law." Since my occupation required me to uphold the law and the constitution, I simply cannot join you in that assessment. That doesn't mean I believe all laws are just and should remain on the books, but I respect even though laws with which I disagree. A review of the jurisprudencial history of the death penalty will show that the US Supreme Court has been steadily narrowing the scope of cases in which the death penalty can be implimented. This leads me to believe that the death penalty will eventually be abolished in the US. If that happens, I won't agree with it, but I will respect it and uphold it, per my oath.
Cheers!
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,433
Ok, so Germany is accusing the USA of being a murderous, brutal society???
For your information the Third Reich ended 60 years ago.
If you want to talk about brutal societies then ask the native Americans what happened to them 100 years ago.
I'm not saying America has a spotless history by any means. Still, even America at its worst can't hold a candle to the Third Reich (which ended, by the way, in large part because of America).
So, I say again: Germany is accusing the USA of being a brutal murderous society?
I'm not sure how we got from Troy Davis to The Third Reich and Germany. Yes- the Germany of today has good cause to criticize the killing of Troy Davis. Is your post just an excuse to bash Germany? This is irrelevant and biased- can we move on to intelligent discussion please?
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Try to not spook the horse."
-Neil Young
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,433
Just in from the NAACP:
"Tomorrow, we celebrate the life of Troy Davis.
Thousands of his supporters and loved ones will gather at Jonesville Baptist Church in Savannah, Georgia, to honor the spirit and legacy of a man who has galvanized a global movement for justice.
We would like you to join us, too.
To accommodate the worldwide demand to mark this moment together, as a global community, Troy's family has generously allowed his funeral to be broadcast live on www.NAACP.org.
Beginning at 11 a.m. tomorrow, you will be able to share the experience with the Davis family and Troy's supporters and loved ones around the world.
Troy Davis: A Celebration of Life
Saturday, October 1st, 2011 at 11 a.m.
Watch the service live at www.NAACP.org
Even in the face of death Troy understood how his story could change this country forever. In the days and weeks ahead, we will work to ensure that Troy's mission is carried out, and the brutal practice of the death penalty is abolished in this country once and for all.
Troy's story has touched each of our lives. Please join us tomorrow as we stand alongside his family in this time of reflection and remembrance.
Sincerely yours,
Benjamin Todd Jealous
President and CEO
NAACP"
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Comments
we are lumped with iraq, iran, and pakistan for top spots of killing people 'legally'. regretfully, we have no chance of passing up china for the elusive #1 spot.
maybe this execution will be the tipping point to end capital punishment once and for all.
MGM Grand - Jul 6, 2006
Cox Arena - Jul 7, 2006
New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - May 1, 2010
Alpine Valley Music Theater - Sep 3-4 2011
Made In America, Philly - Sep 2, 2012
EV, Houston - Nov 12-13, 2012
Dallas-November 2013
OKC-November 2013
ACL 2-October 2014
Fenway Night 1, August 2016
Wrigley, Night 1 August 2018
Fort Worth, Night 1 September 2023
Fort Worth, Night 2 September 2023
Austin, Night 1 September 2023
Austin, Night 2 September 2023
-does that extend to all crimes? I mean, if you accidentally hit me with your car while I'm riding my bike, does that mean I get to jump in your car while you get on my bike and run you over to make it even?
-do we teach our children, when hit on the playground, to hit back?
if you do, you seriously need parenting classes. yeah, I know you're going to say "but it's different, murder isn't the same as a playground fight". No, it's not, but it's the same mentality.
has it ever made you wonder why all these people who are relatives/friends of the victims advocate AGAINST the death penalty? does that not matter to you people?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
not in this case, no....
Mark MacPhail Jr. was 7 weeks old when his father was taken away. He was asleep in his crib while his father worked security at a downtown bus station to help support his growing family.
MacPhail's son and brother watched the execution in silence. Prosecutors and MacPhail's family said after the execution that justice had finally been served.
And if he was in fact wrongly convicted, was justice still served?
Well, of course you're entitled to that opinion, but would you care to elaborate at all? Just stating your opinion is never going to convince anyone that it's valid. If you can explain why you hold it, then you might get somewhere.
Personally, I don't think the rest of the world is wrong, given that I know of no empirical evidence whatsoever to suggest that countries who have abolished the death penalty are worse off for having done so, and plenty of reason to believe that they are far better off without it. And I believe that the death penalty is fundamentally unjust, and does not serve justice, because it is arbitrarily applied, because it is used disproportionately against minorities and the poor - those who are unable to abtain adequate legal council, because there is virtually no way to guarantee against errors and no possibility to remedy them when they are made, and because it is based on the hypocrisy that it is wrong for one person to kill someone, but right for someone else to.
So, what's your reasoning for your opinion? Why do you think the rest of the world is wrong? Why do you think state sanctioned killing is just?
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
I'm not saying America has a spotless history by any means. Still, even America at its worst can't hold a candle to the Third Reich (which ended, by the way, in large part because of America).
So, I say again: Germany is accusing the USA of being a brutal murderous society?
Well, that's where the disagreement lies. You say "fuck the law." Since my occupation required me to uphold the law and the constitution, I simply cannot join you in that assessment. That doesn't mean I believe all laws are just and should remain on the books, but I respect even though laws with which I disagree. A review of the jurisprudencial history of the death penalty will show that the US Supreme Court has been steadily narrowing the scope of cases in which the death penalty can be implimented. This leads me to believe that the death penalty will eventually be abolished in the US. If that happens, I won't agree with it, but I will respect it and uphold it, per my oath.
Cheers!
I'm not sure how we got from Troy Davis to The Third Reich and Germany. Yes- the Germany of today has good cause to criticize the killing of Troy Davis. Is your post just an excuse to bash Germany? This is irrelevant and biased- can we move on to intelligent discussion please?
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Tomorrow, we celebrate the life of Troy Davis.
Thousands of his supporters and loved ones will gather at Jonesville Baptist Church in Savannah, Georgia, to honor the spirit and legacy of a man who has galvanized a global movement for justice.
We would like you to join us, too.
To accommodate the worldwide demand to mark this moment together, as a global community, Troy's family has generously allowed his funeral to be broadcast live on www.NAACP.org.
Beginning at 11 a.m. tomorrow, you will be able to share the experience with the Davis family and Troy's supporters and loved ones around the world.
Troy Davis: A Celebration of Life
Saturday, October 1st, 2011 at 11 a.m.
Watch the service live at www.NAACP.org
Even in the face of death Troy understood how his story could change this country forever. In the days and weeks ahead, we will work to ensure that Troy's mission is carried out, and the brutal practice of the death penalty is abolished in this country once and for all.
Troy's story has touched each of our lives. Please join us tomorrow as we stand alongside his family in this time of reflection and remembrance.
Sincerely yours,
Benjamin Todd Jealous
President and CEO
NAACP"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"