As for the rest of your post... the rhetorical questions you ask deserve- at a minimum- some consideration. In particular, I do agree with the part of your passage that implies murderers are by-products of our society. Are murderers inherently evil or the sum of one's experiences? I tend to think they have been shaped more than they are naturally cruel... with some exceptions of course. For society's failures, I feel badly for those driven to homicidal tendencies.
Regardless, I still feel the same. Let's not give ourselves too much credit. Idealistic and romantic notions of a noble and higher order society reflect illusions of grandeur. They sound great, but since the beginning of time, we have waged wars, wreaked havoc on the earth, slaughtered animals, and killed each other for fun. I think it is fair to suggest we are far from divine. In light of what is our reality... I'm not sure why one might think we can dignify ourselves by displaying compassion and mercy on someone who has kidnapped, raped and dismembered a small child.
So you don't think that 'society' (our laws, customs, moral codes) can set a positive example?
I think society is doing its best and for some... it works quite well. Some have no regard for society and its members. There will always be these types.
Certainly. But don't you think measuring our progress towards an idealistic state might be best measured with our efforts to feed the hungry or to stop waging wars?
I'm not prepared to agree with the statements that suggest we are 'better' for not executing some murderers. Such statements reflect one set of values and, as I have expressed in an earlier post, these values may not necessarily be the 'correct' or 'best' values. I still feel death is appropriate for some no matter how one might try to illustrate the nobility in displaying a level of compassion towards a person committing a heinous and brutal crime.
it is not compassion. it is saying "we don't have the right to kill anyone, no matter what". it's compassion if it's a case by case basis. it's not. it's across the board.
if it was compassion I'd say kill the bastards instead of letting them live a life of hell on earth that is prison.
Since the beginning of time we have more than demonstrated the 'right to kill'. Whether that right was ours or not... we've exercised it. With regards to the death penalty, it seems as if we are willing to live by the notion you have suggested: we don't have the right to kill anyone, no matter what. In other areas of life... it seems as if we are more comfortable overlooking that ideology.
How did you feel when Osama bin Laden was pronounced killed?
How did you feel when Osama bin Laden was pronounced killed?
I think he should have been made to stand trial like any other criminal. Extra-judicial assassinations are illegal under international law.
Trials costing huge money. He would have been found guilty obviously. Then a lifetime of prison costing more money in security, food, medical care, etc. A nice $1.98 bullet put to his head ended all of that bullshit. Thank goodness.
How did you feel when Osama bin Laden was pronounced killed?
I think he should have been made to stand trial like any other criminal. Extra-judicial assassinations are illegal under international law.
Trials costing huge money. He would have been found guilty obviously. Then a lifetime of prison costing more money in security, food, medical care, etc. A nice $1.98 bullet put to his head ended all of that bullshit. Thank goodness.
it was a little more than a $1.98 bullet that took out that dirt bag but I get what you're saying and agree.
How did you feel when Osama bin Laden was pronounced killed?
I have a hard time believing the US was trying to capture him, but if they were, and they used fatal force because he was armed, I'm ok with it. If it was merely an assassination in practice and intent, then I'm against it.
I spoke out against Hussein's "trial" and hanging. I thought that was disgusting.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,005
seems appropriate for a bump.
IF the school shooter could have been arrested, sent to trial and convicted, what would the right sentence be?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Trials costing huge money. He would have been found guilty obviously. Then a lifetime of prison costing more money in security, food, medical care, etc. A nice $1.98 bullet put to his head ended all of that bullshit. Thank goodness.
so we should just say "well I'm sure he's guilty, so let's save some money". that's not a slippery slope at ALL. grand idea.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
IF the school shooter could have been arrested, sent to trial and convicted, what would the right sentence be?
life in prison....no access to media..no communication with other prisoners
till his last breath..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,005
IF the school shooter could have been arrested, sent to trial and convicted, what would the right sentence be?
life in solitary. no death penalty. but life in hell.
just read an article in rolling stone about th eeffects on prisoners held in solitary for extended periods of time. Dec 6th issue. I would encourage you to check it out.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Trials costing huge money. He would have been found guilty obviously. Then a lifetime of prison costing more money in security, food, medical care, etc. A nice $1.98 bullet put to his head ended all of that bullshit. Thank goodness.
so we should just say "well I'm sure he's guilty, so let's save some money". that's not a slippery slope at ALL. grand idea.
Trials costing huge money. He would have been found guilty obviously. Then a lifetime of prison costing more money in security, food, medical care, etc. A nice $1.98 bullet put to his head ended all of that bullshit. Thank goodness.
so we should just say "well I'm sure he's guilty, so let's save some money". that's not a slippery slope at ALL. grand idea.
Yup. That's exactly what I'm saying.
I'm sure if some vigilante idiot did that to someone you loved you'd change your tune about that.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I'm sure if some vigilante idiot did that to someone you loved you'd change your tune about that.
What are you even talking about? :?
you inferred it's appropriate to kill someone instead of giving them due process and "waste money". I'm saying you should be careful what you wish for, because you might change your mind if someone thought it was appropriate for someone to make that choice against someone you know and love.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I'm sure if some vigilante idiot did that to someone you loved you'd change your tune about that.
What are you even talking about? :?
you inferred it's appropriate to kill someone instead of giving them due process and "waste money". I'm saying you should be careful what you wish for, because you might change your mind if someone thought it was appropriate for someone to make that choice against someone you know and love.
I NEVER said that. And if you're referring to my Osama comment he's not a US citizen so to be blunt I don't give a shit what happened to him.
I NEVER said that. And if you're referring to my Osama comment he's not a US citizen so to be blunt I don't give a shit what happened to him.
you only care about americans? geography of birth equals worth to you? HOLY FUCKING SHIT.
As bad as that comment sounds, I have to think this is not what he meant.
Yes and no actually. As far as the geography of birth question...everyone will be given fair trial in the country. Almost too fair actually.
In my opinion of someone who is willing to unlawfully take someone's life they should be ready for the consequences of having their own life taken.
As far a Osama. He waged war against the US and very brashfully publicized his exploits. I have zero problem with a bullet being put into his head without a trial. I actually wish it would have come sooner.
It was an institutional failure, in that the authorities should have been aware of his tendency to commit another act of violence. That's all.
Where the failure was is that his life wasn't taken. As soon as he decided to play judge and jury for someone else's life he forfeited all rights to his own. He didn't kill someone in a drug deal gone bad. He didn't kill an estranged lover. He killed his 92 year old grandmother with a hammer. There is no reform for that. He's was/is damaged goods. Make him pay the ultimate penalty and the government should move on.
As soon as he decided to play judge and jury for someone else's life he forfeited all rights to his own.
And yet you feel that you can play judge and jury with his life?
No contradiction there then.
Absolutely. You commit a crime against humanity as the one he committed to his grandmother...you get the same treatment. Generations before us had it right centuries ago when these type of people were just disposed off. Not this PC crap of trying to reform people. Just simply some people can not be reformed. They are quite simple burdens and dangers on society who should just be eliminated. Save the money and effort. Cut the losses.
Absolutely. You commit a crime against humanity as the one he committed to his grandmother...you get the same treatment. Generations before us had it right centuries ago when these type of people were just disposed off. Not this PC crap of trying to reform people. Just simply some people can not be reformed. They are quite simple burdens and dangers on society who should just be eliminated. Save the money and effort. Cut the losses.
It costs more money to execute people than to keep them locked up.
Comments
I think society is doing its best and for some... it works quite well. Some have no regard for society and its members. There will always be these types.
Since the beginning of time we have more than demonstrated the 'right to kill'. Whether that right was ours or not... we've exercised it. With regards to the death penalty, it seems as if we are willing to live by the notion you have suggested: we don't have the right to kill anyone, no matter what. In other areas of life... it seems as if we are more comfortable overlooking that ideology.
How did you feel when Osama bin Laden was pronounced killed?
I think he should have been made to stand trial like any other criminal. Extra-judicial assassinations are illegal under international law.
Trials costing huge money. He would have been found guilty obviously. Then a lifetime of prison costing more money in security, food, medical care, etc. A nice $1.98 bullet put to his head ended all of that bullshit. Thank goodness.
it was a little more than a $1.98 bullet that took out that dirt bag but I get what you're saying and agree.
Godfather.
I have a hard time believing the US was trying to capture him, but if they were, and they used fatal force because he was armed, I'm ok with it. If it was merely an assassination in practice and intent, then I'm against it.
I spoke out against Hussein's "trial" and hanging. I thought that was disgusting.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
IF the school shooter could have been arrested, sent to trial and convicted, what would the right sentence be?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
life in solitary. no death penalty. but life in hell.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
so we should just say "well I'm sure he's guilty, so let's save some money". that's not a slippery slope at ALL. grand idea.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
As long as he gets one solid punch to the face and one kick in the balls each and every day upon waking up... I'd be okay with this.
No. Change my mind. Death.
till his last breath..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Yup. That's exactly what I'm saying.
I'm sure if some vigilante idiot did that to someone you loved you'd change your tune about that.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
What are you even talking about? :?
you inferred it's appropriate to kill someone instead of giving them due process and "waste money". I'm saying you should be careful what you wish for, because you might change your mind if someone thought it was appropriate for someone to make that choice against someone you know and love.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I NEVER said that. And if you're referring to my Osama comment he's not a US citizen so to be blunt I don't give a shit what happened to him.
you only care about americans? geography of birth equals worth to you? HOLY FUCKING SHIT.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
As bad as that comment sounds, I have to think this is not what he meant.
Yes and no actually. As far as the geography of birth question...everyone will be given fair trial in the country. Almost too fair actually.
In my opinion of someone who is willing to unlawfully take someone's life they should be ready for the consequences of having their own life taken.
As far a Osama. He waged war against the US and very brashfully publicized his exploits. I have zero problem with a bullet being put into his head without a trial. I actually wish it would have come sooner.
You seem to have forgotten about Guantanamo...
No I haven't actually.
http://news.msn.com/us/2-firefighters-d ... g-ny-house
so let's take away someone's basic right to LIFE, but dear god don't take away my fucking GUN! :?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
This POS took another's life - someone of his own blood, WITH A HAMMER, and she was 92. To me, in doing so, he lost his claim to any rights to life.
It was an institutional failure, in that the authorities should have been aware of his tendency to commit another act of violence. That's all.
Where the failure was is that his life wasn't taken. As soon as he decided to play judge and jury for someone else's life he forfeited all rights to his own. He didn't kill someone in a drug deal gone bad. He didn't kill an estranged lover. He killed his 92 year old grandmother with a hammer. There is no reform for that. He's was/is damaged goods. Make him pay the ultimate penalty and the government should move on.
And yet you feel that you can play judge and jury with his life?
No contradiction there then.
Absolutely. You commit a crime against humanity as the one he committed to his grandmother...you get the same treatment. Generations before us had it right centuries ago when these type of people were just disposed off. Not this PC crap of trying to reform people. Just simply some people can not be reformed. They are quite simple burdens and dangers on society who should just be eliminated. Save the money and effort. Cut the losses.
It costs more money to execute people than to keep them locked up.
Next.