What I've seen is an instigator, with limited intelligence. I may be wrong, but instigating here... does little to nothing. If you have a point to debate.... do it, but trying to spark debates about the intelligence of a group of people is silly.
please refer back to my original post.
Which says that those who support the tea party are stupid. Right?
Also, since you believe in a smaller government, would you please return all of the money you have received from said government.
I have not received squat from said government. Name what I've received. I've been taxed out my ass.... but, haven't gotten squat.
you have received anything? You haven't benefited by any government works? services? infrastructure? clean water? schools? fire dept? police?
nothing?
I haven't taken a penny for school or services. I suppose you could argue that I've benefited from infrastructure, but I would disagree given the amount I've put in. As for the other points, I've never had a fire, nor a problem where I needed police.
My simple point is this... I've without a doubt paid more in, than I've gotten out. So, could I get the leftovers back?
I have not received squat from said government. Name what I've received. I've been taxed out my ass.... but, haven't gotten squat.
you have received anything? You haven't benefited by any government works? services? infrastructure? clean water? schools? fire dept? police?
nothing?
I haven't taken a penny for school or services. I suppose you could argue that I've benefited from infrastructure, but I would disagree given the amount I've put in. As for the other points, I've never had a fire, nor a problem where I needed police.
My simple point is this... I've without a doubt paid more in, than I've gotten out. So, could I get the leftovers back?
so we should stop paying for roads, bridges, schools, police, fire, transportation, water supply, electricity, military.........
especially the ones you don't use?
I live in Hong Kong and still pay taxes. I should probably stop.
You never went to school? You've never benefitted from having young people in your community not being uneducated and hanging out all day with no future and no reason not to just break into your house and take stuff?
I suppose you could argue that I've benefited from infrastructure, but I would disagree given the amount I've put in.
You've never used water? Or electricity? Or stop lights? Or walked on a side walk? You've never been on a road that's had all the dead animals taken off of it? Or driven on a highway? Across a bridge?
You've never eaten at a restaurant that doesn't have a sign that says "this meat could have salmonella... we're not sure. But we're pretty sure we cooked it enough. Eat at your own risk" or "The water is pretty rusty... sorry?"
Wow. That's some life you've had.
As for the other points, I've never had a fire,
Ah... so it's just all about you and your needs? You've never needed it so screw everyone else? Maybe your house has never burned down but if the firemen didn't put out the one down the street from you... who would have stopped it from spreading to yours? Or do you live on an island?
nor a problem where I needed police.
Really? Wow... and you think that if police didn't exist that... you'd be safe? If there were no peace-keepers and law enforcement... you'd be safe and sound in your home? With no laws? You've never once seen a traffic cop directing traffic when a stoplight went out? Or driven on a highway that highway patrols enforce a maximum speed limit?
My simple point is this... I've without a doubt paid more in, than I've gotten out. So, could I get the leftovers back?
No. You can't.
And I pay taxes too yet I don't get many of the rights straight people get. So... you think I should pay less?
The Tea Party movement only exists to meet the demand of poorly educated political consumers. It's time to start calling out those who ARE responsible. You, Your Family, Your Neighbors, Your Friends. An ignorant and gullible electorate created the Tea Party. They are to blame.
care to elaborate on this? I personally don't blame the tea party per ce. i blame a culture in which individuality trumps the collective.
per se.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The Tea Party movement only exists to meet the demand of poorly educated political consumers. It's time to start calling out those who ARE responsible. You, Your Family, Your Neighbors, Your Friends. An ignorant and gullible electorate created the Tea Party. They are to blame.
Please explain something to me... anyone...
Did the Tea Party spend any government money? If so, how did they spend it? Also, explain to me this, did the Tea Party lower taxes? If so, how did they do that?
I'll wait for a real answer to these questions.
Did the tea party spend Govt. money??? The answer is a huge yes. Because we all know that the majority of tea people supported both wars. Especially the Iraq war. And that is a fuckload of government money being spent. The tea parties are a massive joke. A shitstain on America. You aren't fooling anyone.
The Tea Party movement only exists to meet the demand of poorly educated political consumers. It's time to start calling out those who ARE responsible. You, Your Family, Your Neighbors, Your Friends. An ignorant and gullible electorate created the Tea Party. They are to blame.
Please explain something to me... anyone...
Did the Tea Party spend any government money? If so, how did they spend it? Also, explain to me this, did the Tea Party lower taxes? If so, how did they do that?
I'll wait for a real answer to these questions.
Did the tea party spend Govt. money??? The answer is a huge yes. Because we all know that the majority of tea people supported both wars. Especially the Iraq war. And that is a fuckload of government money being spent. The tea parties are a massive joke. A shitstain on America. You aren't fooling anyone.
58% of Democratic senators voted to go to war in Iraq.
Did the Tea Party spend any government money? If so, how did they spend it? Also, explain to me this, did the Tea Party lower taxes? If so, how did they do that?
I'll wait for a real answer to these questions.
Did the tea party spend Govt. money??? The answer is a huge yes. Because we all know that the majority of tea people supported both wars. Especially the Iraq war. And that is a fuckload of government money being spent. The tea parties are a massive joke. A shitstain on America. You aren't fooling anyone.
I'll give you credit. At least you tried to answer the question, instead of trying to alter the debate into some game of did you ever use a public good.
The Tea Party, which could be considered a libertarian movement, basically moved into the political forefront in 2009. To say they were the movement behind the wars is silly. Not only is it silly because it goes against libertarian viewpoints, but it's silly because it's not fundamentally possible (they've only been governing since 09 and the wars began much, much earlier).
So, once again, I'll put out the question (and change the word to appease those trying to look at use of public goods)...
How have elected Tea Party representatives spent government money?
The answer is.... they haven't. Therefore, they are not to blame for debt problem.
how can the tea party be a libertarian movement when many of the members have been or are currently on some sort of public aid??
"get your government hands off of my medicare!!"
it is just the rich like the koch brothers getting the poor folks to get out and do the protesting for them. we can't have the wealthy boldly coming out and saying they want to eliminate your medicare, can we? they have to make it look like that is what the common people want. so inevitably the recipients will cut their own throat.
tht is the first rule of politics..
Post edited by gimmesometruth27 on
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Four locked threads in one day and you guys are still at it. Blaming, calling names, telling people who is or who isn't smarter than the other.
People disagree with liberals. People disagree with conservatives...neither are more intelligent based solely on their chosen political belief system... Some just feel like it. The fact of the matter is that the GOVERNMENT themselves, made up of Liberals, Democrats, and Independents....all are responsible for the mess we are in. The downgrade isn't about political philosophy it is about the fact we have unmanageable debt in regards to our GDP and no one is willing to make hard choices to fix the problem. So grow up and start acting like adults and lets discuss the issues not the crazy minority of any one political philosophy.
Are there idiot conservatives...yep...are there idiot liberals...yep...some here would only believe that idiocy resides on one side of the political fence...those people are the most dangerous of all. If you cannot respect your opponent (for lack of a better term) in a discussion, you cannot have a discussion...you will have an argument that gets no where. So please stop with all the generalizations, our country is failing and we have more important things to worry about and educate each other on. I think we can all agree no one wants our country to fail (except anarchists I suppose) we all just have different beliefs about what would benefit MOST of society and how this problem should be handled...
"RELAX" - Frank, from Hollywood, CA
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Four locked threads in one day and you guys are still at it. Blaming, calling names, telling people who is or who isn't smarter than the other.
People disagree with liberals. People disagree with conservatives...neither are more intelligent based solely on their chosen political belief system... Some just feel like it. The fact of the matter is that the GOVERNMENT themselves, made up of Liberals, Democrats, and Independents....all are responsible for the mess we are in. The downgrade isn't about political philosophy it is about the fact we have unmanageable debt in regards to our GDP and no one is willing to make hard choices to fix the problem. So grow up and start acting like adults and lets discuss the issues not the crazy minority of any one political philosophy.
Are there idiot conservatives...yep...are there idiot liberals...yep...some here would only believe that idiocy resides on one side of the political fence...those people are the most dangerous of all. If you cannot respect your opponent (for lack of a better term) in a discussion, you cannot have a discussion...you will have an argument that gets no where. So please stop with all the generalizations, our country is failing and we have more important things to worry about and educate each other on. I think we can all agree no one wants our country to fail (except anarchists I suppose) we all just have different beliefs about what would benefit MOST of society and how this problem should be handled...
how can the tea party be a libertarian movement when many of the members have been or are currently on some sort of public aid??
The same way Democrats can send their kids to private schools... or wealthy Democrats can take the Bush tax cuts, yet complain about them.
people can send kids to whatever schools they want. school choice is not a political philosophy like conservatism is, or socialism is, or capitalism is, or even the libertarian perspective is...
fiscal conservatives are against public assistance and the tea party is against things like mandated health care. then by definition, if tea partiers take government assistance in the form of medicaid or social security, or government funded health care like medicare, then they are not libertarian. if they do that then they are also hypocrites because they will gladly accept that aid while seeking to deny it to everybody else. and that is absolutley wrong.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,435
Four locked threads in one day and you guys are still at it. Blaming, calling names, telling people who is or who isn't smarter than the other.
People disagree with liberals. People disagree with conservatives...neither are more intelligent based solely on their chosen political belief system... Some just feel like it. The fact of the matter is that the GOVERNMENT themselves, made up of Liberals, Democrats, and Independents....all are responsible for the mess we are in. The downgrade isn't about political philosophy it is about the fact we have unmanageable debt in regards to our GDP and no one is willing to make hard choices to fix the problem. So grow up and start acting like adults and lets discuss the issues not the crazy minority of any one political philosophy.
Are there idiot conservatives...yep...are there idiot liberals...yep...some here would only believe that idiocy resides on one side of the political fence...those people are the most dangerous of all. If you cannot respect your opponent (for lack of a better term) in a discussion, you cannot have a discussion...you will have an argument that gets no where. So please stop with all the generalizations, our country is failing and we have more important things to worry about and educate each other on. I think we can all agree no one wants our country to fail (except anarchists I suppose) we all just have different beliefs about what would benefit MOST of society and how this problem should be handled...
"RELAX" - Frank, from Hollywood, CA
Good points all around, mikepegg44. By now it's obvious I tend to strongly agree with some folks here more than others but I generally don't respond when those with whom I agree are name calling or attacking. I think we can get our points across better by being civil.
And I agree that I don't think anyone wants our country to fail. I even know some very hard-core anarchists who don't want that-- but they are not destructive anarchists-- they are also pacifists.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
how can the tea party be a libertarian movement when many of the members have been or are currently on some sort of public aid??
The same way Democrats can send their kids to private schools... or wealthy Democrats can take the Bush tax cuts, yet complain about them.
people can send kids to whatever schools they want. school choice is not a political philosophy like conservatism is, or socialism is, or capitalism is, or even the libertarian perspective is...
fiscal conservatives are against public assistance and the tea party is against things like mandated health care. then by definition, if tea partiers take government assistance in the form of medicaid or social security, or government funded health care like medicare, then they are not libertarian. if they do that then they are also hypocrites because they will gladly accept that aid while seeking to deny it to everybody else. and that is absolutley wrong.
People can send their kids to whatever schools they want. But, if they say that "poor" people shouldn't really have a choice because they are poor. That could be considered hypocritical. Rich Dems push public schools (and are adamately against vouchers for the poor)... but, when push comes to shove many (like Obama) don't send their kids there. That's a little odd.
Also, if you don't like that comparison... fair enough, go to the next one which you completely dodged. Democrats did not "pay back" their share of the Bush tax cuts. That could be considered hypocritical.
You're trying to say that the Tea Party (in general) can't advocate for less government spending, because sometimes some of them may use government resources. I say, you're 100% wrong. That's like saying you can't tell you're wife to stop spending $1000 a week on credit (for food, clothes, entertainment) because you eat some of the groceries she buys.
The Tea Party are pointing out that these government assistance programs will be broke. Moreover, they were formed as a response to the "STIMULUS", which was even more spending bandaids. This is not rocket science. It's simple math you learn in grade school. These programs were broken even before the spending binge on stimulus. Plus, money is not only is money being spent there, it's being wasted elsewhere. That's what the Tea Party is about. And, yes, in my opinion, a person can say "social security is going to be broke for my kids so I want government to stop spending so much money" and still collect social security (and not be hypocritical). Afterall, social security is "supposedly" their money, right?
The Tea Party are pointing out that these government assistance programs will be broke. Moreover, they were formed as a response to the "STIMULUS", which was even more spending bandaids. This is not rocket science. It's simple math you learn in grade school. These programs were broken even before the spending binge on stimulus. Plus, money is not only is money being spent there, it's being wasted elsewhere. That's what the Tea Party is about. And, yes, in my opinion, a person can say "social security is going to be broke for my kids so I want government to stop spending so much money" and still collect social security (and not be hypocritical). Afterall, social security is "supposedly" their money, right?
I agree. These problems have been around for a long time. But where were the future Tea Party members during the Bush II years? Why did it take the election of a BLACK MAN for all the Tea Party's hatred to bubble forth in a frothy foam?
Rock me Jesus, roll me Lord...
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
how can the tea party be a libertarian movement when many of the members have been or are currently on some sort of public aid??
The same way Democrats can send their kids to private schools... or wealthy Democrats can take the Bush tax cuts, yet complain about them.
people can send kids to whatever schools they want. school choice is not a political philosophy like conservatism is, or socialism is, or capitalism is, or even the libertarian perspective is...
fiscal conservatives are against public assistance and the tea party is against things like mandated health care. then by definition, if tea partiers take government assistance in the form of medicaid or social security, or government funded health care like medicare, then they are not libertarian. if they do that then they are also hypocrites because they will gladly accept that aid while seeking to deny it to everybody else. and that is absolutley wrong.
First off, the tea party is NOT a libertarian movement.
I would disagree with your assertions based on the fact that I am a fiscal conservative and I am not against public assistance. I am just against giving resources to people in a way that allows fraud to take place so that people who need the assistance aren't getting it because part of it is being spent by people who are working the system.
as for the other, If you are forced to pay into a system for your adult working life, it is not hypocritical to take the benefits you funded. If these people were taking them after never having contributed to them, all the while spouting off about the need to end these programs because people take advantage of them...well that would be hypocritical and I am sure some do that, but that wouldn't be the majority.
And i am not against government run healthcare as much as I am against government mandated health insurance. Those are two different things. A universal healthcare system actually is a more fiscally responsible approach(IMO), but mandating people having insurance is not a good idea because it does nothing to control premium prices nor controlling actual healthcare costs. So you can see why a fiscal conservative is against something like the healthcare bill that was passed right? It doesn't accomplish cutting the head off the snake, all it does is grab the tail...that doesn't work so well.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
The Tea Party are pointing out that these government assistance programs will be broke. Moreover, they were formed as a response to the "STIMULUS", which was even more spending bandaids. This is not rocket science. It's simple math you learn in grade school. These programs were broken even before the spending binge on stimulus. Plus, money is not only is money being spent there, it's being wasted elsewhere. That's what the Tea Party is about. And, yes, in my opinion, a person can say "social security is going to be broke for my kids so I want government to stop spending so much money" and still collect social security (and not be hypocritical). Afterall, social security is "supposedly" their money, right?
I agree. These problems have been around for a long time. But where were the future Tea Party members during the Bush II years? Why did it take the election of a BLACK MAN for all the Tea Party's hatred to bubble forth in a frothy foam?
If you think it has more to do with his color than the deficits he has been running, I don't know how much actual discussion can be done in a way that advances the topic.
I agree with you that more conservatives should have stood up and criticized Bush II, and many people were upset with the Medicare prescription drug plan when it was being discussed. But when a political side doesn't really agree with there own, they simply check out or do not support them, rarely do they protest themselves. Which is why we see very little protesting of the war being covered or done for that matter now. But ultimately the deficits bush ran at the time were relatively tiny until the end of his presidency compared to the deficits of today...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
That last post was good Mike..I agree with you about healthcare. What you ended up with was basically The GOP plan for healthcare. The reason you didn't get any real change, or trying something like universal healthcare is because of rightwingers and the tea people. And even more so because of $$$$. The healthcare companies are so entrenched in the govt.( both Dems and Cons ) that it will take some radical change to eliminate them. But these poor tea people buy into all the bull shit propaganda coming from the right and the healthcare companies. It's just sad.
Did the Tea Party spend any government money? If so, how did they spend it? Also, explain to me this, did the Tea Party lower taxes? If so, how did they do that?
I'll wait for a real answer to these questions.
Did the tea party spend Govt. money??? The answer is a huge yes. Because we all know that the majority of tea people supported both wars. Especially the Iraq war. And that is a fuckload of government money being spent. The tea parties are a massive joke. A shitstain on America. You aren't fooling anyone.
I'll give you credit. At least you tried to answer the question, instead of trying to alter the debate into some game of did you ever use a public good.
The Tea Party, which could be considered a libertarian movement, basically moved into the political forefront in 2009. To say they were the movement behind the wars is silly. Not only is it silly because it goes against libertarian viewpoints, but it's silly because it's not fundamentally possible (they've only been governing since 09 and the wars began much, much earlier).
So, once again, I'll put out the question (and change the word to appease those trying to look at use of public goods)...
How have elected Tea Party representatives spent government money?
The answer is.... they haven't. Therefore, they are not to blame for debt problem.
We all know that the majority of tea people are just rightwing republicans. And we all know that they support those wars. Just look at your figure heads like Bachmann and Palin. They are all for those wars. So like I said earlier. You aren't fooling anyone. The tea party has contributed to the worst spending of all. The spending that is killing thousands of people needlessly.
If the teaparty was to come out tomorrow and say we can't afford these needless wars, bring all the troops home now. Then I may start to give them some sort of credit for actually caring about our deficit. But we all know thats never going to happen.
That last post was good Mike..I agree with you about healthcare. What you ended up with was basically The GOP plan for healthcare. The reason you didn't get any real change, or trying something like universal healthcare is because of rightwingers and the tea people. And even more so because of $$$$. The healthcare companies are so entrenched in the govt.( both Dems and Cons ) that it will take some radical change to eliminate them. But these poor tea people buy into all the bull shit propaganda coming from the right and the healthcare companies. It's just sad.
thanks, but the democrats had a super majority they could have passed whatever they wanted. They wrote the bill, not republicans. Actually now that I think about it, the democrats didn't even write the bill, most hadn't read it when they voted for it. They could have fought for universal health care and won...Democrats passed the bill, not republicans. and with 60 in the senate they should have been able to do what they wanted. The house was theirs too...if they made their case well they could have done just about anything they wanted. To blame tea party supporters for this is kind of short sided. It really gives them credit for something they didn't do.
We didn't end up with the GOP plan for healthcare at all...if that was the case they wouldn't attack it left right and center...What we ended up with was a political calculation that failed to make any meaningful change that I or anyone else could or should believe in.
but we can agree to disagree.
Groucho Marx said it best
"The last man nearly ruined this place
He didn`t know what to do with it
If you think this country`s bad off now,
Just wait `til I get through with it"
Pretty much sums up the situation we are in. LOL I guess 1933 was WAY to early for such a brilliant man.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
That last post was good Mike..I agree with you about healthcare. What you ended up with was basically The GOP plan for healthcare. The reason you didn't get any real change, or trying something like universal healthcare is because of rightwingers and the tea people. And even more so because of $$$$. The healthcare companies are so entrenched in the govt.( both Dems and Cons ) that it will take some radical change to eliminate them. But these poor tea people buy into all the bull shit propaganda coming from the right and the healthcare companies. It's just sad.
thanks, but the democrats had a super majority they could have passed whatever they wanted. They wrote the bill, not republicans. Actually now that I think about it, the democrats didn't even write the bill, most hadn't read it when they voted for it. They could have fought for universal health care and won...Democrats passed the bill, not republicans. and with 60 in the senate they should have been able to do what they wanted. The house was theirs too...if they made their case well they could have done just about anything they wanted. To blame tea party supporters for this is kind of short sided. It really gives them credit for something they didn't do.
We didn't end up with the GOP plan for healthcare at all...if that was the case they wouldn't attack it left right and center...What we ended up with was a political calculation that failed to make any meaningful change that I or anyone else could or should believe in.
but we can agree to disagree.
Groucho Marx said it best
"The last man nearly ruined this place
He didn`t know what to do with it
If you think this country`s bad off now,
Just wait `til I get through with it"
Pretty much sums up the situation we are in. LOL I guess 1933 was WAY to early for such a brilliant man.
You are right, the Dems were complete weaklings. They always have been. Too afraid to push any real change. There are a lot of dems in the pockets of insurance companies also.
But it's also the populace that believes all the propaganda pushed by these companies that scares govt officials from pushing any real reform. They don't get all the blame. But when you have an uneducated, fear mongering, believe anything they hear populace, it tends to slow down progressive change. And that is all the Tea people are.
That last post was good Mike..I agree with you about healthcare. What you ended up with was basically The GOP plan for healthcare. The reason you didn't get any real change, or trying something like universal healthcare is because of rightwingers and the tea people. And even more so because of $$$$. The healthcare companies are so entrenched in the govt.( both Dems and Cons ) that it will take some radical change to eliminate them. But these poor tea people buy into all the bull shit propaganda coming from the right and the healthcare companies. It's just sad.
thanks, but the democrats had a super majority they could have passed whatever they wanted. They wrote the bill, not republicans. Actually now that I think about it, the democrats didn't even write the bill, most hadn't read it when they voted for it. They could have fought for universal health care and won...Democrats passed the bill, not republicans. and with 60 in the senate they should have been able to do what they wanted. The house was theirs too...if they made their case well they could have done just about anything they wanted. To blame tea party supporters for this is kind of short sided. It really gives them credit for something they didn't do.
We didn't end up with the GOP plan for healthcare at all...if that was the case they wouldn't attack it left right and center...What we ended up with was a political calculation that failed to make any meaningful change that I or anyone else could or should believe in.
but we can agree to disagree.
Groucho Marx said it best
"The last man nearly ruined this place
He didn`t know what to do with it
If you think this country`s bad off now,
Just wait `til I get through with it"
Pretty much sums up the situation we are in. LOL I guess 1933 was WAY to early for such a brilliant man.
You are right, the Dems were complete weaklings. They always have been. Too afraid to push any real change. There are a lot of dems in the pockets of insurance companies also.
But it's also the populace that believes all the propaganda pushed by these companies that scares govt officials from pushing any real reform. They don't get all the blame. But when you have an uneducated, fear mongering, believe anything they hear populace, it tends to slow down progressive change. And that is all the Tea people are.
but that is where you are wrong...sure there are some, but I would bet to a person most are actually pretty reasonable. Progressive change isn't an agreed upon thing however...i think it would be far better for the country to actually try to limit the size of the federal government and make state and local governments responsible for far more than they are now...
I tend to think of the federal government as Master Blaster...There is a small minority of people (master) that are controlling a much larger portion (blaster), that analogy might work for the opinion that the main public are retarded(blaster) as well...so we can all agree then...our federal government is like master blaster from Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome. A little man desperate to throw their power and influence all over, and a big retarded base that allows them to do whatever they want...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Comments
you have received anything? You haven't benefited by any government works? services? infrastructure? clean water? schools? fire dept? police?
nothing?
Which says that those who support the tea party are stupid. Right?
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
I haven't taken a penny for school or services. I suppose you could argue that I've benefited from infrastructure, but I would disagree given the amount I've put in. As for the other points, I've never had a fire, nor a problem where I needed police.
My simple point is this... I've without a doubt paid more in, than I've gotten out. So, could I get the leftovers back?
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
so we should stop paying for roads, bridges, schools, police, fire, transportation, water supply, electricity, military.........
especially the ones you don't use?
I live in Hong Kong and still pay taxes. I should probably stop.
You never went to school? You've never benefitted from having young people in your community not being uneducated and hanging out all day with no future and no reason not to just break into your house and take stuff?
You've never used water? Or electricity? Or stop lights? Or walked on a side walk? You've never been on a road that's had all the dead animals taken off of it? Or driven on a highway? Across a bridge?
You've never eaten at a restaurant that doesn't have a sign that says "this meat could have salmonella... we're not sure. But we're pretty sure we cooked it enough. Eat at your own risk" or "The water is pretty rusty... sorry?"
Wow. That's some life you've had.
Ah... so it's just all about you and your needs? You've never needed it so screw everyone else? Maybe your house has never burned down but if the firemen didn't put out the one down the street from you... who would have stopped it from spreading to yours? Or do you live on an island?
Really? Wow... and you think that if police didn't exist that... you'd be safe? If there were no peace-keepers and law enforcement... you'd be safe and sound in your home? With no laws? You've never once seen a traffic cop directing traffic when a stoplight went out? Or driven on a highway that highway patrols enforce a maximum speed limit?
No. You can't.
And I pay taxes too yet I don't get many of the rights straight people get. So... you think I should pay less?
per se.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Did the tea party spend Govt. money??? The answer is a huge yes. Because we all know that the majority of tea people supported both wars. Especially the Iraq war. And that is a fuckload of government money being spent. The tea parties are a massive joke. A shitstain on America. You aren't fooling anyone.
58% of Democratic senators voted to go to war in Iraq.
I guess they are a "shitstain" on America too.
definitely
I'll give you credit. At least you tried to answer the question, instead of trying to alter the debate into some game of did you ever use a public good.
The Tea Party, which could be considered a libertarian movement, basically moved into the political forefront in 2009. To say they were the movement behind the wars is silly. Not only is it silly because it goes against libertarian viewpoints, but it's silly because it's not fundamentally possible (they've only been governing since 09 and the wars began much, much earlier).
So, once again, I'll put out the question (and change the word to appease those trying to look at use of public goods)...
How have elected Tea Party representatives spent government money?
The answer is.... they haven't. Therefore, they are not to blame for debt problem.
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"get your government hands off of my medicare!!"
it is just the rich like the koch brothers getting the poor folks to get out and do the protesting for them. we can't have the wealthy boldly coming out and saying they want to eliminate your medicare, can we? they have to make it look like that is what the common people want. so inevitably the recipients will cut their own throat.
tht is the first rule of politics..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
People disagree with liberals. People disagree with conservatives...neither are more intelligent based solely on their chosen political belief system... Some just feel like it. The fact of the matter is that the GOVERNMENT themselves, made up of Liberals, Democrats, and Independents....all are responsible for the mess we are in. The downgrade isn't about political philosophy it is about the fact we have unmanageable debt in regards to our GDP and no one is willing to make hard choices to fix the problem. So grow up and start acting like adults and lets discuss the issues not the crazy minority of any one political philosophy.
Are there idiot conservatives...yep...are there idiot liberals...yep...some here would only believe that idiocy resides on one side of the political fence...those people are the most dangerous of all. If you cannot respect your opponent (for lack of a better term) in a discussion, you cannot have a discussion...you will have an argument that gets no where. So please stop with all the generalizations, our country is failing and we have more important things to worry about and educate each other on. I think we can all agree no one wants our country to fail (except anarchists I suppose) we all just have different beliefs about what would benefit MOST of society and how this problem should be handled...
"RELAX" - Frank, from Hollywood, CA
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
The same way Democrats can send their kids to private schools... or wealthy Democrats can take the Bush tax cuts, yet complain about them.
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fiscal conservatives are against public assistance and the tea party is against things like mandated health care. then by definition, if tea partiers take government assistance in the form of medicaid or social security, or government funded health care like medicare, then they are not libertarian. if they do that then they are also hypocrites because they will gladly accept that aid while seeking to deny it to everybody else. and that is absolutley wrong.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Good points all around, mikepegg44. By now it's obvious I tend to strongly agree with some folks here more than others but I generally don't respond when those with whom I agree are name calling or attacking. I think we can get our points across better by being civil.
And I agree that I don't think anyone wants our country to fail. I even know some very hard-core anarchists who don't want that-- but they are not destructive anarchists-- they are also pacifists.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
People can send their kids to whatever schools they want. But, if they say that "poor" people shouldn't really have a choice because they are poor. That could be considered hypocritical. Rich Dems push public schools (and are adamately against vouchers for the poor)... but, when push comes to shove many (like Obama) don't send their kids there. That's a little odd.
Also, if you don't like that comparison... fair enough, go to the next one which you completely dodged. Democrats did not "pay back" their share of the Bush tax cuts. That could be considered hypocritical.
You're trying to say that the Tea Party (in general) can't advocate for less government spending, because sometimes some of them may use government resources. I say, you're 100% wrong. That's like saying you can't tell you're wife to stop spending $1000 a week on credit (for food, clothes, entertainment) because you eat some of the groceries she buys.
The Tea Party are pointing out that these government assistance programs will be broke. Moreover, they were formed as a response to the "STIMULUS", which was even more spending bandaids. This is not rocket science. It's simple math you learn in grade school. These programs were broken even before the spending binge on stimulus. Plus, money is not only is money being spent there, it's being wasted elsewhere. That's what the Tea Party is about. And, yes, in my opinion, a person can say "social security is going to be broke for my kids so I want government to stop spending so much money" and still collect social security (and not be hypocritical). Afterall, social security is "supposedly" their money, right?
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I agree. These problems have been around for a long time. But where were the future Tea Party members during the Bush II years? Why did it take the election of a BLACK MAN for all the Tea Party's hatred to bubble forth in a frothy foam?
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
First off, the tea party is NOT a libertarian movement.
I would disagree with your assertions based on the fact that I am a fiscal conservative and I am not against public assistance. I am just against giving resources to people in a way that allows fraud to take place so that people who need the assistance aren't getting it because part of it is being spent by people who are working the system.
as for the other, If you are forced to pay into a system for your adult working life, it is not hypocritical to take the benefits you funded. If these people were taking them after never having contributed to them, all the while spouting off about the need to end these programs because people take advantage of them...well that would be hypocritical and I am sure some do that, but that wouldn't be the majority.
And i am not against government run healthcare as much as I am against government mandated health insurance. Those are two different things. A universal healthcare system actually is a more fiscally responsible approach(IMO), but mandating people having insurance is not a good idea because it does nothing to control premium prices nor controlling actual healthcare costs. So you can see why a fiscal conservative is against something like the healthcare bill that was passed right? It doesn't accomplish cutting the head off the snake, all it does is grab the tail...that doesn't work so well.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
If you think it has more to do with his color than the deficits he has been running, I don't know how much actual discussion can be done in a way that advances the topic.
I agree with you that more conservatives should have stood up and criticized Bush II, and many people were upset with the Medicare prescription drug plan when it was being discussed. But when a political side doesn't really agree with there own, they simply check out or do not support them, rarely do they protest themselves. Which is why we see very little protesting of the war being covered or done for that matter now. But ultimately the deficits bush ran at the time were relatively tiny until the end of his presidency compared to the deficits of today...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Absolutely
We all know that the majority of tea people are just rightwing republicans. And we all know that they support those wars. Just look at your figure heads like Bachmann and Palin. They are all for those wars. So like I said earlier. You aren't fooling anyone. The tea party has contributed to the worst spending of all. The spending that is killing thousands of people needlessly.
If the teaparty was to come out tomorrow and say we can't afford these needless wars, bring all the troops home now. Then I may start to give them some sort of credit for actually caring about our deficit. But we all know thats never going to happen.
thanks, but the democrats had a super majority they could have passed whatever they wanted. They wrote the bill, not republicans. Actually now that I think about it, the democrats didn't even write the bill, most hadn't read it when they voted for it. They could have fought for universal health care and won...Democrats passed the bill, not republicans. and with 60 in the senate they should have been able to do what they wanted. The house was theirs too...if they made their case well they could have done just about anything they wanted. To blame tea party supporters for this is kind of short sided. It really gives them credit for something they didn't do.
We didn't end up with the GOP plan for healthcare at all...if that was the case they wouldn't attack it left right and center...What we ended up with was a political calculation that failed to make any meaningful change that I or anyone else could or should believe in.
but we can agree to disagree.
Groucho Marx said it best
"The last man nearly ruined this place
He didn`t know what to do with it
If you think this country`s bad off now,
Just wait `til I get through with it"
Pretty much sums up the situation we are in. LOL I guess 1933 was WAY to early for such a brilliant man.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
You are right, the Dems were complete weaklings. They always have been. Too afraid to push any real change. There are a lot of dems in the pockets of insurance companies also.
But it's also the populace that believes all the propaganda pushed by these companies that scares govt officials from pushing any real reform. They don't get all the blame. But when you have an uneducated, fear mongering, believe anything they hear populace, it tends to slow down progressive change. And that is all the Tea people are.
but that is where you are wrong...sure there are some, but I would bet to a person most are actually pretty reasonable. Progressive change isn't an agreed upon thing however...i think it would be far better for the country to actually try to limit the size of the federal government and make state and local governments responsible for far more than they are now...
I tend to think of the federal government as Master Blaster...There is a small minority of people (master) that are controlling a much larger portion (blaster), that analogy might work for the opinion that the main public are retarded(blaster) as well...so we can all agree then...our federal government is like master blaster from Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome. A little man desperate to throw their power and influence all over, and a big retarded base that allows them to do whatever they want...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan