Something I will say about the Ten Club is that they have promptly answered every one of my emails. In February I pre-ordered the new Radiohead album 'Newspaper' edition. In late March they sent shipping notifications. Early June I requested a re-shipment since it had been lost in the mail clearly. Over the last three weeks I sent about four emails to their customer service e-mail address requesting a refund, and didn't hear a word from them... I finally called them and they were very unapologetic and just said "yeah, it's probably lost, we'll cancel it for you".
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Over the last three weeks I sent about four emails to their customer service e-mail address requesting a refund, and didn't hear a word from them... I finally called them and they were very unapologetic and just said "yeah, it's probably lost, we'll cancel it for you".
I must say, it must be so damned disheartening sometimes to be a 10c employee.
The club has done its utmost over the years to give us everything we want and they deliver in bucketloads, even to the point that the U2 Fanclub has used 10C as a leading example of what a fanclub should be like to its fans, and yet on so many posts I see fan club membes complaining / moaning about anything and everything, including but not limited to: ticket ordering, singles, postage prices, poster collection, mugs, seating, early access to shows, PJ20 soundtrack listing ad infinitum.
The stuff being done re PJ20, even for those of us that cant make it to the show, is brilliant and appreciated (by me at least). The film, books, albums coming out. The easy to use Goods Section (in comparison to how it was in the 90s - yes you all know what I mean with the little section of the fanzine with tiny pictures and smaller check box), the choice of goods, availability and the damned easiness with which it is to contact 10C for ANY questions I ever have.
so I say thankyou thankyou thankyou to Mr Bierman and all employees of 10C - keep up the fantastic work. I appreciate it all....
Dude I don't think the 10club employees are message board Porch junkies so I doubt most have a clue of all the negative talk. You come here everyday so you do but if your company had a message board would you go on it and chat about your companies products??
In customer service circles there is a concept of the "spectacular recovery" and its main proponent is the Disney Theme Parks. Customers that experienced trouble at Disneyland et al continually poll as having a BETTER experience at the parks than folks that had no negative issues at all.
Think about that. Something sucked ... and you came away happier than other folks.
The ride has just stopped and you're stuck in the middle of Peter Pan. When you get off, a supervisor will be there and hand you an "instant-on one ride" ticket to compensate you for your trouble. If your ballon pops or flies away, a replacement is provided free. If your hat flies off on a roller coaster, you get a voucher for another. Ice cream falls off the cone, voucher. These are just the little examples, I know of and have experienced much more major ones -- but don't want to encourage you lot to test them!
When your customer has experienced something negative, you bend over backwards and recover their good graces spectacularly -- leave them stunned at your dedication to service.
[/quote]10 is a business, no one is seperating them from the band. All I said was if you took their buisness practices into the real word (where there is competion) they would not have a repeat customer. (and we are seeing this now with the amazon products)
Also I am not talking about them combining shipping on items and shipping them when the last product is available. They put dates next to their recent goods. And they communicated that there were some issues and products would be late AFTER the original shipping date. If you are a manager, you should always know what the lead time is and the date of shipment, it should not be a suprise.
ALso, recieving a digitial copy is not something that some people are intrested in, and is also NOT WHAT THEY ORDERED. If you order a PJ poster and it was late, but they send you a digital image, would that be ok with you?
What quality of the book was so outstanding? I heard month after month tim talk about the fine details and the handcrafted, ect... Its a hardbound replica of the book that comes with the Vinyl and the Liner (photos) that come with the vinly.
There really is no excuse to not know when something is being shipped/manufactured. Tim made it seem on many ATE shows that he had no idea when the book was going to be ready. All he said was "its coming together", "its very detailed", "Its handcrafted, and it takes a while". Those are excuses, not answers for customers. He could have very simply said It will be another month, as that is something he should know well in advance.
Simple communication goes a long way in making people happy, even if its not something they want to hear.[/quote]
A poster is not the same as music. You are just arguing to argue. You are one of those who will always find something to complain about. What business do you run that is flawless?? These are musicians who are providing a service and not Harvard Business School people looking to run a multi-billion dollar business. How many people do you think work at the 10 club. The resources are limited.
Do you also think that Eddie should be given your critism on some lyrics you might think can be better?
Or complain that Mike should have a different note on a certain song?
10 is a business, no one is seperating them from the band. All I said was if you took their buisness practices into the real word (where there is competion) they would not have a repeat customer. (and we are seeing this now with the amazon products)
Also I am not talking about them combining shipping on items and shipping them when the last product is available. They put dates next to their recent goods. And they communicated that there were some issues and products would be late AFTER the original shipping date. If you are a manager, you should always know what the lead time is and the date of shipment, it should not be a suprise.
ALso, recieving a digitial copy is not something that some people are intrested in, and is also NOT WHAT THEY ORDERED. If you order a PJ poster and it was late, but they send you a digital image, would that be ok with you?
What quality of the book was so outstanding? I heard month after month tim talk about the fine details and the handcrafted, ect... Its a hardbound replica of the book that comes with the Vinyl and the Liner (photos) that come with the vinly.
There really is no excuse to not know when something is being shipped/manufactured. Tim made it seem on many ATE shows that he had no idea when the book was going to be ready. All he said was "its coming together", "its very detailed", "Its handcrafted, and it takes a while". Those are excuses, not answers for customers. He could have very simply said It will be another month, as that is something he should know well in advance.
Simple communication goes a long way in making people happy, even if its not something they want to hear.[/quote]
A poster is not the same as music. You are just arguing to argue. You are one of those who will always find something to complain about. What business do you run that is flawless?? These are musicians who are providing a service and not Harvard Business School people looking to run a multi-billion dollar business. How many people do you think work at the 10 club. The resources are limited.
Do you also think that Eddie should be given your critism on some lyrics you might think can be better?
Or complain that Mike should have a different note on a certain song?[/quote]
I think you missed the main purpose of the post you responded to here. All that this poster was commenting on (and he or she can chip in and correct me if I misread it) is that there are basic premises behind what 'good customer service' consists of, and that the Ten Club are not abiding by these premises. If I had a lunch appointment with a client and called an hour and a half early to notify them that, due to circumstances beyond my control, I would not be able to attend - it's alright! If I call after the client has been waiting for me for an hour, it is frustrating for the client, and would be a poor representation of my company. I believe this is analogous to the late shipments of products, where us knowing before-hand that a product is due to be late, and to be presented with options (ie. partial/complete refunds, splitting of product orders so that the non-delayed products arrive on time) would make that issue into a moot point. Note how there are still problems within the company (the late shipments of the product), yet to the customer, they perceive it as still being taken care of by the company.
This, in my opinion, is just one example of how timely communication between the Ten Club and us would make being a Ten Club member a much happier experience for everyone.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I think you missed the main purpose of the post you responded to here. All that this poster was commenting on (and he or she can chip in and correct me if I misread it) is that there are basic premises behind what 'good customer service' consists of, and that the Ten Club are not abiding by these premises. If I had a lunch appointment with a client and called an hour and a half early to notify them that, due to circumstances beyond my control, I would not be able to attend - it's alright! If I call after the client has been waiting for me for an hour, it is frustrating for the client, and would be a poor representation of my company. I believe this is analogous to the late shipments of products, where us knowing before-hand that a product is due to be late, and to be presented with options (ie. partial/complete refunds, splitting of product orders so that the non-delayed products arrive on time) would make that issue into a moot point. Note how there are still problems within the company (the late shipments of the product), yet to the customer, they perceive it as still being taken care of by the company.
This, in my opinion, is just one example of how timely communication between the Ten Club and us would make being a Ten Club member a much happier experience for everyone.
I'm saying that people expect too much from a fan club. This is not a seperate business it is a service of the band. Wanting perfection is not going to happen. This is not a multi-billion dollar business that is run based upon customer service. It is a club that offers it's members privilages that a non-member cannot enjoy. This is not a cable television company or a cell phone company that wants your business for them to sustain. This is a club.
In customer service circles there is a concept of the "spectacular recovery" and its main proponent is the Disney Theme Parks. Customers that experienced trouble at Disneyland et al continually poll as having a BETTER experience at the parks than folks that had no negative issues at all.
Think about that. Something sucked ... and you came away happier than other folks.
The ride has just stopped and you're stuck in the middle of Peter Pan. When you get off, a supervisor will be there and hand you an "instant-on one ride" ticket to compensate you for your trouble. If your ballon pops or flies away, a replacement is provided free. If your hat flies off on a roller coaster, you get a voucher for another. Ice cream falls off the cone, voucher. These are just the little examples, I know of and have experienced much more major ones -- but don't want to encourage you lot to test them!
When your customer has experienced something negative, you bend over backwards and recover their good graces spectacularly -- leave them stunned at your dedication to service.
this is a great example of great customer service. this is why disney wins 6 sigma awards
In customer service circles there is a concept of the "spectacular recovery" and its main proponent is the Disney Theme Parks. Customers that experienced trouble at Disneyland et al continually poll as having a BETTER experience at the parks than folks that had no negative issues at all.
Think about that. Something sucked ... and you came away happier than other folks.
The ride has just stopped and you're stuck in the middle of Peter Pan. When you get off, a supervisor will be there and hand you an "instant-on one ride" ticket to compensate you for your trouble. If your ballon pops or flies away, a replacement is provided free. If your hat flies off on a roller coaster, you get a voucher for another. Ice cream falls off the cone, voucher. These are just the little examples, I know of and have experienced much more major ones -- but don't want to encourage you lot to test them!
When your customer has experienced something negative, you bend over backwards and recover their good graces spectacularly -- leave them stunned at your dedication to service.
this is a great example of great customer service. this is why disney wins 6 sigma awards
And there is the problem. This is not Disney it is the 10 club. Don't expect it to be Disney. It is a club for fans of Pearl Jam and not a muti-billion dollar profit motivated business.
personally, it comes down to setting expectations, delivering on them and communicating during the process if something goes wrong. Fan Club or not, we all pay for membership and products and have expectations. If they cannot be met, all I ask for is open communication.
In customer service circles there is a concept of the "spectacular recovery" and its main proponent is the Disney Theme Parks. Customers that experienced trouble at Disneyland et al continually poll as having a BETTER experience at the parks than folks that had no negative issues at all.
Think about that. Something sucked ... and you came away happier than other folks.
The ride has just stopped and you're stuck in the middle of Peter Pan. When you get off, a supervisor will be there and hand you an "instant-on one ride" ticket to compensate you for your trouble. If your ballon pops or flies away, a replacement is provided free. If your hat flies off on a roller coaster, you get a voucher for another. Ice cream falls off the cone, voucher. These are just the little examples, I know of and have experienced much more major ones -- but don't want to encourage you lot to test them!
When your customer has experienced something negative, you bend over backwards and recover their good graces spectacularly -- leave them stunned at your dedication to service.
this is a great example of great customer service. this is why disney wins 6 sigma awards
And there is the problem. This is not Disney it is the 10 club. Don't expect it to be Disney. It is a club for fans of Pearl Jam and not a muti-billion dollar profit motivated business.
There are companies far smaller than the Ten Club that deliver better customer service. You make it sound like it takes many billions of dollars to implement this. Also, I think it is fairly naive to expect that the Ten Club is not a profit-motivated business. When I give Ten Club my membership fees, if they do not live up to what they promise, I am absolutely entitled to customer service... I may be a fan club member, but I'm also a customer.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
And there is the problem. This is not Disney it is the 10 club. Don't expect it to be Disney. It is a club for fans of Pearl Jam and not a muti-billion dollar profit motivated business.
Right, so by your logic, Pearl Jam shouldn't look to The Who, The Stones, or Uncle Neil for guidance, up and coming bands shouldn't look to established acts to emulate, how to manage themselves, how to deal with the industry, contracts, studio time, production, scheduling.
No, the band themselves said they were looking at music festivals out there, talking to promoters and organizers and what not while trying to figure out what PJ20 would be. This is what you do.
The 10C should just re-invent the wheel when it comes to customer service?
Let the billion dollar company hire all the consultants, use their incredible breadth of operations to test strategies and develop processes ... and then go to town on what they learned.
And don't fool yourself into thinking the 10C isn't motivated by profit.
That's a laugher esp in recent years.
Dude I don't think the 10club employees are message board Porch junkies so I doubt most have a clue of all the negative talk. You come here everyday so you do but if your company had a message board would you go on it and chat about your companies products??
probably the wrong person to discuss this with as I manage a customer service department and am on our company message boards every day. I have a very good understanding of my customers views across the globe...
There are companies far smaller than the Ten Club that deliver better customer service. You make it sound like it takes many billions of dollars to implement this. Also, I think it is fairly naive to expect that the Ten Club is not a profit-motivated business. When I give Ten Club my membership fees, if they do not live up to what they promise, I am absolutely entitled to customer service... I may be a fan club member, but I'm also a customer.
And there are companies MUCH bigger than PJ10C that deliver, consistently, astoundingly poor customer service - not just music.
All I say is that every time I have needed 10C they have been there, faultlessly. And when things have gone wrong they have been the first to hold up their hands and apologise saying that they will learn from it. And for $50 a year that gives me a fan club single, t shirt and download plus many more tangible benefits I will happily continue...
And there is the problem. This is not Disney it is the 10 club. Don't expect it to be Disney. It is a club for fans of Pearl Jam and not a muti-billion dollar profit motivated business.
it may not be disney
it may not be multibillion
but don't think for a second that it isn't a profit motivated business.
I must say, it must be so damned disheartening sometimes to be a 10c employee.
The club has done its utmost over the years to give us everything we want and they deliver in bucketloads, even to the point that the U2 Fanclub has used 10C as a leading example of what a fanclub should be like to its fans, and yet on so many posts I see fan club membes complaining / moaning about anything and everything, including but not limited to: ticket ordering, singles, postage prices, poster collection, mugs, seating, early access to shows, PJ20 soundtrack listing ad infinitum.
The stuff being done re PJ20, even for those of us that cant make it to the show, is brilliant and appreciated (by me at least). The film, books, albums coming out. The easy to use Goods Section (in comparison to how it was in the 90s - yes you all know what I mean with the little section of the fanzine with tiny pictures and smaller check box), the choice of goods, availability and the damned easiness with which it is to contact 10C for ANY questions I ever have.
so I say thankyou thankyou thankyou to Mr Bierman and all employees of 10C - keep up the fantastic work. I appreciate it all....
Dude I don't think the 10club employees are message board Porch junkies so I doubt most have a clue of all the negative talk. You come here everyday so you do but if your company had a message board would you go on it and chat about your companies products??
my biggest complait is the over promise under deliver, followed by lack of communication.
Well said. It's the same complaints too, year after year, that the 10c refuses to acknowledge or do anything about... People have asked for a better server to avoid hours on end of trying to get tickets only to see them finally sold out. People ask for them to go back to the old index card system... they ignore us. Christmas single that comes 9 months after Christmas. I got the Uke deluxe book after waiting months and months only to have it arrive damaged and then have them tell me "send it back for a refund but we can't replace it, we're sold out.... or you can just keep the damaged one." I'm screwed either way. Lack of caring, lack of communication.
"If you're not confused, you're not paying attention."
Comments
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Dude I don't think the 10club employees are message board Porch junkies so I doubt most have a clue of all the negative talk. You come here everyday so you do but if your company had a message board would you go on it and chat about your companies products??
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
Think about that. Something sucked ... and you came away happier than other folks.
The ride has just stopped and you're stuck in the middle of Peter Pan. When you get off, a supervisor will be there and hand you an "instant-on one ride" ticket to compensate you for your trouble. If your ballon pops or flies away, a replacement is provided free. If your hat flies off on a roller coaster, you get a voucher for another. Ice cream falls off the cone, voucher. These are just the little examples, I know of and have experienced much more major ones -- but don't want to encourage you lot to test them!
When your customer has experienced something negative, you bend over backwards and recover their good graces spectacularly -- leave them stunned at your dedication to service.
Also I am not talking about them combining shipping on items and shipping them when the last product is available. They put dates next to their recent goods. And they communicated that there were some issues and products would be late AFTER the original shipping date. If you are a manager, you should always know what the lead time is and the date of shipment, it should not be a suprise.
ALso, recieving a digitial copy is not something that some people are intrested in, and is also NOT WHAT THEY ORDERED. If you order a PJ poster and it was late, but they send you a digital image, would that be ok with you?
What quality of the book was so outstanding? I heard month after month tim talk about the fine details and the handcrafted, ect... Its a hardbound replica of the book that comes with the Vinyl and the Liner (photos) that come with the vinly.
There really is no excuse to not know when something is being shipped/manufactured. Tim made it seem on many ATE shows that he had no idea when the book was going to be ready. All he said was "its coming together", "its very detailed", "Its handcrafted, and it takes a while". Those are excuses, not answers for customers. He could have very simply said It will be another month, as that is something he should know well in advance.
Simple communication goes a long way in making people happy, even if its not something they want to hear.[/quote]
A poster is not the same as music. You are just arguing to argue. You are one of those who will always find something to complain about. What business do you run that is flawless?? These are musicians who are providing a service and not Harvard Business School people looking to run a multi-billion dollar business. How many people do you think work at the 10 club. The resources are limited.
Do you also think that Eddie should be given your critism on some lyrics you might think can be better?
Or complain that Mike should have a different note on a certain song?
Also I am not talking about them combining shipping on items and shipping them when the last product is available. They put dates next to their recent goods. And they communicated that there were some issues and products would be late AFTER the original shipping date. If you are a manager, you should always know what the lead time is and the date of shipment, it should not be a suprise.
ALso, recieving a digitial copy is not something that some people are intrested in, and is also NOT WHAT THEY ORDERED. If you order a PJ poster and it was late, but they send you a digital image, would that be ok with you?
What quality of the book was so outstanding? I heard month after month tim talk about the fine details and the handcrafted, ect... Its a hardbound replica of the book that comes with the Vinyl and the Liner (photos) that come with the vinly.
There really is no excuse to not know when something is being shipped/manufactured. Tim made it seem on many ATE shows that he had no idea when the book was going to be ready. All he said was "its coming together", "its very detailed", "Its handcrafted, and it takes a while". Those are excuses, not answers for customers. He could have very simply said It will be another month, as that is something he should know well in advance.
Simple communication goes a long way in making people happy, even if its not something they want to hear.[/quote]
A poster is not the same as music. You are just arguing to argue. You are one of those who will always find something to complain about. What business do you run that is flawless?? These are musicians who are providing a service and not Harvard Business School people looking to run a multi-billion dollar business. How many people do you think work at the 10 club. The resources are limited.
Do you also think that Eddie should be given your critism on some lyrics you might think can be better?
Or complain that Mike should have a different note on a certain song?[/quote]
I think you missed the main purpose of the post you responded to here. All that this poster was commenting on (and he or she can chip in and correct me if I misread it) is that there are basic premises behind what 'good customer service' consists of, and that the Ten Club are not abiding by these premises. If I had a lunch appointment with a client and called an hour and a half early to notify them that, due to circumstances beyond my control, I would not be able to attend - it's alright! If I call after the client has been waiting for me for an hour, it is frustrating for the client, and would be a poor representation of my company. I believe this is analogous to the late shipments of products, where us knowing before-hand that a product is due to be late, and to be presented with options (ie. partial/complete refunds, splitting of product orders so that the non-delayed products arrive on time) would make that issue into a moot point. Note how there are still problems within the company (the late shipments of the product), yet to the customer, they perceive it as still being taken care of by the company.
This, in my opinion, is just one example of how timely communication between the Ten Club and us would make being a Ten Club member a much happier experience for everyone.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I'm saying that people expect too much from a fan club. This is not a seperate business it is a service of the band. Wanting perfection is not going to happen. This is not a multi-billion dollar business that is run based upon customer service. It is a club that offers it's members privilages that a non-member cannot enjoy. This is not a cable television company or a cell phone company that wants your business for them to sustain. This is a club.
And there is the problem. This is not Disney it is the 10 club. Don't expect it to be Disney. It is a club for fans of Pearl Jam and not a muti-billion dollar profit motivated business.
Now back to the music.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Right, so by your logic, Pearl Jam shouldn't look to The Who, The Stones, or Uncle Neil for guidance, up and coming bands shouldn't look to established acts to emulate, how to manage themselves, how to deal with the industry, contracts, studio time, production, scheduling.
No, the band themselves said they were looking at music festivals out there, talking to promoters and organizers and what not while trying to figure out what PJ20 would be. This is what you do.
The 10C should just re-invent the wheel when it comes to customer service?
Let the billion dollar company hire all the consultants, use their incredible breadth of operations to test strategies and develop processes ... and then go to town on what they learned.
And don't fool yourself into thinking the 10C isn't motivated by profit.
That's a laugher esp in recent years.
Wonder if she would share the popcorn? I bet Scarlet is Analog too.
I think it's Scarlet Johansson.
She acted to music by Eddie Vedder in We Bought a Zoo, so did the whole cast.
No lie. Gotta love Cameron Crowe.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I second that motion.
probably the wrong person to discuss this with as I manage a customer service department and am on our company message boards every day. I have a very good understanding of my customers views across the globe...
And there are companies MUCH bigger than PJ10C that deliver, consistently, astoundingly poor customer service - not just music.
All I say is that every time I have needed 10C they have been there, faultlessly. And when things have gone wrong they have been the first to hold up their hands and apologise saying that they will learn from it. And for $50 a year that gives me a fan club single, t shirt and download plus many more tangible benefits I will happily continue...
EV Solo: 7/11/11 11/12/12 11/13/12
it may not be disney
it may not be multibillion
but don't think for a second that it isn't a profit motivated business.
it may not be multibillion
but don't think for a second that it isn't a profit motivated business.[/quote]
Watch and enjoy!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofq_nl366VM
We are very aware of the negative talk.
My future lottery chances are screwed....
Well said. It's the same complaints too, year after year, that the 10c refuses to acknowledge or do anything about... People have asked for a better server to avoid hours on end of trying to get tickets only to see them finally sold out. People ask for them to go back to the old index card system... they ignore us. Christmas single that comes 9 months after Christmas. I got the Uke deluxe book after waiting months and months only to have it arrive damaged and then have them tell me "send it back for a refund but we can't replace it, we're sold out.... or you can just keep the damaged one." I'm screwed either way. Lack of caring, lack of communication.
"Rise above principal and do what's right."