but it's a plan and that's something the website lacks.
just to be fair, they are just getting off the ground. there will be more info on the way on the website.
This issue has been a hot topic for the last several years. Political grandstanding is one thing, but asking for donations for a hot-button issue that seems to split the public 50/50 seems unethical. The website did an excellent job of listing points of why you should be concerned and give them your money, but lacks any true goal.
If the border fence just came up two months ago, I would give them time to get off the ground. But remember, I came up with a proposal in about five minutes. This isn't a stealth airplane or the Three Gorges Dam, it's a fence. They don't even have a proposal?
you and i both know it's easier to sit here and say this is how to do it, vs how stuff actually gets done. there is a lot more that goes into building a fence than saying, go build a fence. this website was just created becasue the AZ government just authorized it. give it more than a day
81 is now off the air
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81
Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
but if those motherfuckers want to come here to have a better life...fuck them
Not really. They could always just follow the laws to become legal, then they are welcomed.
If they arrive illegally, yeah "fuck them".
So where does NAFTA come in?
I mean, since they want to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in, why are we sending many of our factories to Mexico for cheaper labour instead of paying our (American and Canadian) citizens fair wages?
That's gotta be hurting the economies too, all the while lining the pockets of big business.
Is the problem really illegal immigrants crossing the border, or businesses sending the jobs there?
Instead of asking donations to keep people out, why aren't they asking business to stay here?
that is a whole different issue.
i have no problem with peopel wanting to come here, or even coming here. problem is, when you just let them come and go as they please, you end up with a shit ton of criminals/gangs/who knows what.
i have no problem with peopel wanting to come here, or even coming here. problem is, when you just let them come and go as they please, you end up with a shit ton of criminals/gangs/who knows what.
Oh, that I agree with, they should come legally. But it's not just immigrants that start gangs or are criminals.
Yes, they might be totally different issues, but so many things affect each other when it comes to economy.
Building a wall just seems...archaic. But maybe that's just me.
Lots of love, light and hugs to you all!
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81
Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
i have no problem with peopel wanting to come here, or even coming here. problem is, when you just let them come and go as they please, you end up with a shit ton of criminals/gangs/who knows what.
Oh, that I agree with, they should come legally. But it's not just immigrants that start gangs or are criminals.
Yes, they might be totally different issues, but so many things affect each other when it comes to economy.
Building a wall just seems...archaic. But maybe that's just me.
i understand, we have plenty of home grown criminals as well. i also understand we will never get rid of the current aliens since they do generate money for landlords, cities, counties and states via sales taxes.
you and i both know it's easier to sit here and say this is how to do it, vs how stuff actually gets done. there is a lot more that goes into building a fence than saying, go build a fence. this website was just created becasue the AZ government just authorized it. give it more than a day
They were pretty good at figuring out how to accept credit card and check donations on day 1. :think:
Be Excellent To Each Other
Party On, Dudes!
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81
Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
you and i both know it's easier to sit here and say this is how to do it, vs how stuff actually gets done. there is a lot more that goes into building a fence than saying, go build a fence. this website was just created becasue the AZ government just authorized it. give it more than a day
They were pretty good at figuring out how to accept credit card and check donations on day 1. :think:
well played.
but that's a whol lot easier than building 2K miles of fence
For example, if I was building a border fence, this would be my criteria:
* Initial 8'-0" razor wire fence
* 300 yard gap between the first fence and the main fence
* Motion detectors in the 300 yard gap (reduces amount of personal required to enforce the fence)
* Main fence should be at least 20'-0" high and be constructed of impermeable materials (wood and wire fence would not be acceptable. More razor wire at the top of the fence.
* Vibration detectors in the ground to prevent tunnels
* Ten helicopters on duty to respond to detection warnings. Each chopper would be responsible for 200 miles. With three shifts per day, that would amount to 30 choppers, pilots, and maintenance techs.
Now how hard was that? It took me about five minutes to come up with that. I'm not saying it's the best or most effective plan ... but it's a plan and that's something the website lacks.
So why doesn't the website touch on this key criteria? Instead it just lists reasons why you should be afraid and loosly claims that prison labor will build it which would only account for a small portion. You still need project management, paid guards to monitor, skilled techs for the motion detection. And cost of materials is going to be much higher then labor costs for building a fence.
Several years ago I put in 11,000 feet of 7'-0" high aluminum chain-link fence (no razor wire or deterrent) and the cost was $104,000. That is a cost of $9.45 / foot or $49,920 per mile. To put this same system along 2,000 miles would cost $99,840,000 ... and this wouldn't stop a group of Jr. High kids.
The cost of building an effective fence as described above at least would be at least 20x higher .... oh, wait! I forgot this was a government project! Make it 100x higher!
Then you have to add in legal costs to fight all the lawsuits and injunctions. Yada, yada, yada.
The only thing it guarantees is that the money will go into a trust fund. I would be very skeptical about donating money to a project that clearly has yet to be thought out. You would be better off investing said money into PJ20 tickets.
I’m petitioning more to those of you who are in favor of the fence. Not because I’m trying to prevent a fence … it’s more because this sounds like this is a crooked way to steal money and just like most government ideas, it has not been clearly thought out.
If you are going to be running power out to those motion sensors (many of which will probably be in the middle of deserts or uninhabited areas and will be super expensive to run power too) then you might as well install a bunch of spotlights along the fence too. But then of course you have to hire people to change the bulbs on a regular basis.
you and i both know it's easier to sit here and say this is how to do it, vs how stuff actually gets done. there is a lot more that goes into building a fence than saying, go build a fence. this website was just created becasue the AZ government just authorized it. give it more than a day
They were pretty good at figuring out how to accept credit card and check donations on day 1. :think:
well played.
but that's a whol lot easier than building 2K miles of fence
And if the government does have a strong suit, it's taking money from us.
Anywho, I guess my point is that those of you who are in support of the fence should wait until more information is available before making donations.
If you are going to be running power out to those motion sensors (many of which will probably be in the middle of deserts or uninhabited areas and will be super expensive to run power too) then you might as well install a bunch of spotlights along the fence too. But then of course you have to hire people to change the bulbs on a regular basis.
Maintenance costs would need to be considered. Also, using prisoners to build something where they are a few feet from escaping into a foreign country doesn't seem like the best idea to me.
I've come up with another solution that is probably a lot cheaper then building a 2,000 mile long fence. It's called a police department that enforces law.
No mater what your opinion on the fence is, please consider the following.
The website is missing a key piece of information ...specifications on the fence.
It has no estimated cost. It has no specifications .... even worse, it doesn't have a general guideline or idea of the fence. And it does not have and plan of implementation (with the exception that prisoners will be able to build the yet-to-be-defined fence for cheap).
For example, if I was building a border fence, this would be my criteria:
* Initial 8'-0" razor wire fence
* 300 yard gap between the first fence and the main fence
* Motion detectors in the 300 yard gap (reduces amount of personal required to enforce the fence)
* Main fence should be at least 20'-0" high and be constructed of impermeable materials (wood and wire fence would not be acceptable. More razor wire at the top of the fence.
* Vibration detectors in the ground to prevent tunnels
* Ten helicopters on duty to respond to detection warnings. Each chopper would be responsible for 200 miles. With three shifts per day, that would amount to 30 choppers, pilots, and maintenance techs.
Now how hard was that? It took me about five minutes to come up with that. I'm not saying it's the best or most effective plan ... but it's a plan and that's something the website lacks.
So why doesn't the website touch on this key criteria? Instead it just lists reasons why you should be afraid and loosly claims that prison labor will build it which would only account for a small portion. You still need project management, paid guards to monitor, skilled techs for the motion detection. And cost of materials is going to be much higher then labor costs for building a fence.
Several years ago I put in 11,000 feet of 7'-0" high aluminum chain-link fence (no razor wire or deterrent) and the cost was $104,000. That is a cost of $9.45 / foot or $49,920 per mile. To put this same system along 2,000 miles would cost $99,840,000 ... and this wouldn't stop a group of Jr. High kids.
The cost of building an effective fence as described above at least would be at least 20x higher .... oh, wait! I forgot this was a government project! Make it 100x higher!
Then you have to add in legal costs to fight all the lawsuits and injunctions. Yada, yada, yada.
The only thing it guarantees is that the money will go into a trust fund. I would be very skeptical about donating money to a project that clearly has yet to be thought out. You would be better off investing said money into PJ20 tickets.
I’m petitioning more to those of you who are in favor of the fence. Not because I’m trying to prevent a fence … it’s more because this sounds like this is a crooked way to steal money and just like most government ideas, it has not been clearly thought out.
Yep.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
Ohhhh... :problem: :eh: I'm sure all the families who recently lost there homes would love to donate money so AZ. can have a fence in there backyard. Isn't it great how far homeland security has come since 9/11. I personally believe in taking care of your own. You know "family". I've unfortunately watched many family members lose their homes recently and had no help from "our government". I agree AZ. desperately needs help with this but until the rich start paying more in taxes,they figure out the mess our country is in and do government spending where it counts then I can't imagine that this new plan will succeed. . I think the people of this country have been through enough and it's up to the people to "donate" to something that will have a more immediate effect on a much needed "change" like helping our friends and families through this difficult period in every bodies lives. It's just my opinion though.
John and Shawna
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81
Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
Also, using prisoners to build something where they are a few feet from escaping into a foreign country doesn't seem like the best idea to me.
actually, sounds like a good idea to me.
pay them a decent wage. maybe 60% of what a normal person would get. obviously, it would have to be volunteer positions. i don't think we should force them to build it.
they learn a skill, can save money for post prison life, and if a few decide to escape to mexico, less money to house and feed them. win win win.
81 is now off the air
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81
Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
Ohhhh... :problem: :eh: I'm sure all the families who recently lost there homes would love to donate money so AZ. can have a fence in there backyard. Isn't it great how far homeland security has come since 9/11. I personally believe in taking care of your own. You know "family". I've unfortunately watched many family members lose their homes recently and had no help from "our government". I agree AZ. desperately needs help with this but until the rich start paying more in taxes,they figure out the mess our country is in and do government spending where it counts then I can't imagine that this new plan will succeed. . I think the people of this country have been through enough and it's up to the people to "donate" to something that will have a more immediate effect on a much needed "change" like helping our friends and families through this difficult period in every bodies lives. It's just my opinion though.
but but but, people got $8 in new homebuyer credits and than the whole cash for clunker credit.
Ohhhh... :problem: :eh: I'm sure all the families who recently lost there homes would love to donate money so AZ. can have a fence in there backyard. Isn't it great how far homeland security has come since 9/11. I personally believe in taking care of your own. You know "family". I've unfortunately watched many family members lose their homes recently and had no help from "our government". I agree AZ. desperately needs help with this but until the rich start paying more in taxes,they figure out the mess our country is in and do government spending where it counts then I can't imagine that this new plan will succeed. . I think the people of this country have been through enough and it's up to the people to "donate" to something that will have a more immediate effect on a much needed "change" like helping our friends and families through this difficult period in every bodies lives. It's just my opinion though.
but but but, people got $8 in new homebuyer credits and than the whole cash for clunker credit.
whooooo, yeah
Oh my, You're are rigghht silly me I will now return to the dream like state in which they believe I should be living in.
I think this is an excellent solution to address federal issues that should not be top priority - private donations.
I think there are a lot of programs that should be addressed this way. That way, the taxpayer can direct their "sacrifices" to programs they support.
Good idea,
Let's start w/ welfare.
Can I stop paying for the wars? Seriously.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
if you are going to put something there, why not put a big assed concrete wall with barbed wire on top of it, like the one formerly in berlin? seems a little more solid than a cyclone fence. and you can get illegal workers to build it for you to save on the labor costs...
Maybe they can ask their friends the Israeli's to help them.
Why not just build a big concrete wall all across the border with Mexico, and then build one across the border with Canada? Then these fearful idiots can focus their energies on worrying about an attack from space by the little green bogeymen.
This is the biggest waste of money. If you want to stop illegal immigration then hit the companies that hire them. This country is immigration. That is what makes us great.
if you are going to put something there, why not put a big assed concrete wall with barbed wire on top of it, like the one formerly in berlin? seems a little more solid than a cyclone fence. and you can get illegal workers to build it for you to save on the labor costs...
Maybe they can ask their friends the Israeli's to help them.
Why not just build a big concrete wall all across the border with Mexico, and then build one across the border with Canada? Then these fearful idiots can focus their energies on worrying about an attack from space by the little green bogeymen.
Okay... 2 donations noted so far...
That's... okay... 5 plus... ummmm...
$7.50 donated by the members of this board... so far.
...
Should have that fence built by 55,237 A.D.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
if you are going to put something there, why not put a big assed concrete wall with barbed wire on top of it, like the one formerly in berlin? seems a little more solid than a cyclone fence. and you can get illegal workers to build it for you to save on the labor costs...
Maybe they can ask their friends the Israeli's to help them.
Why not just build a big concrete wall all across the border with Mexico, and then build one across the border with Canada? Then these fearful idiots can focus their energies on worrying about an attack from space by the little green bogeymen.
What about the ocean and boats?
I think they're already pretty secure what with all the NARCS on patrol along your coastal borders.
Did the East Germans hold a fundraiser to build their wall? Sounds idiotic, doesn't it?
the berlin wall is quite possibly the finest example of the stupidity and bloodymindedness of man. no matter how much i think about it i still find it unfathomable that this was allowed to happen.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
the berlin wall is quite possibly the finest example of the stupidity and bloodymindedness of man. no matter how much i think about it i still find it unfathomable that this was allowed to happen.
...
Irony... guess who is going to build the border fence?
Unsung? Usammasan?
Nope. Mexicans.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
the berlin wall is quite possibly the finest example of the stupidity and bloodymindedness of man. no matter how much i think about it i still find it unfathomable that this was allowed to happen.
...
Irony... guess who is going to build the border fence?
Unsung? Usammasan?
Nope. Mexicans.
im sure theyll put some sneaky trapdoors in it then.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
0
81
Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
Did the East Germans hold a fundraiser to build their wall? Sounds idiotic, doesn't it?
the berlin wall is quite possibly the finest example of the stupidity and bloodymindedness of man. no matter how much i think about it i still find it unfathomable that this was allowed to happen.
as opposed to the great wall in china? perhaps we can hire some chinese to build it...
no not apples to oranges. the only difference is the color of the skin and the means of transport. is it ok to come from a ship and not ok to walk across the border from the south?
actually no its not ok to come by boat, as evidenced by the cubans and those from the dominican lands that are pulled off of boats and sent back.
i want my country to be as welcoming as what the stupid statue of liberty claims it to be...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Did the East Germans hold a fundraiser to build their wall? Sounds idiotic, doesn't it?
the berlin wall is quite possibly the finest example of the stupidity and bloodymindedness of man. no matter how much i think about it i still find it unfathomable that this was allowed to happen.
as opposed to the great wall in china? perhaps we can hire some chinese to build it...
theres no comparison. the berlin wall divided a nation and most heinously, families. it served no purpose but to embolden pigheaded men deluded by their ideology.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
0
81
Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
Okay... 2 donations noted so far...
That's... okay... 5 plus... ummmm...
$7.50 donated by the members of this board... so far.
...
Should have that fence built by 55,237 A.D.
2,356 People Have Donated $104,435.00 Donations Collected
Comments
you and i both know it's easier to sit here and say this is how to do it, vs how stuff actually gets done. there is a lot more that goes into building a fence than saying, go build a fence. this website was just created becasue the AZ government just authorized it. give it more than a day
that is a whole different issue.
i have no problem with peopel wanting to come here, or even coming here. problem is, when you just let them come and go as they please, you end up with a shit ton of criminals/gangs/who knows what.
Oh, that I agree with, they should come legally. But it's not just immigrants that start gangs or are criminals.
Yes, they might be totally different issues, but so many things affect each other when it comes to economy.
Building a wall just seems...archaic. But maybe that's just me.
i understand, we have plenty of home grown criminals as well. i also understand we will never get rid of the current aliens since they do generate money for landlords, cities, counties and states via sales taxes.
well played.
but that's a whol lot easier than building 2K miles of fence
If you are going to be running power out to those motion sensors (many of which will probably be in the middle of deserts or uninhabited areas and will be super expensive to run power too) then you might as well install a bunch of spotlights along the fence too. But then of course you have to hire people to change the bulbs on a regular basis.
Anywho, I guess my point is that those of you who are in support of the fence should wait until more information is available before making donations.
I've come up with another solution that is probably a lot cheaper then building a 2,000 mile long fence. It's called a police department that enforces law.
Yep.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
actually, sounds like a good idea to me.
pay them a decent wage. maybe 60% of what a normal person would get. obviously, it would have to be volunteer positions. i don't think we should force them to build it.
they learn a skill, can save money for post prison life, and if a few decide to escape to mexico, less money to house and feed them. win win win.
but but but, people got $8 in new homebuyer credits and than the whole cash for clunker credit.
whooooo, yeah
I've got an excellent career, however with people nearing 99 weeks of unemployment they might want it.
Maybe they can ask their friends the Israeli's to help them.
Why not just build a big concrete wall all across the border with Mexico, and then build one across the border with Canada? Then these fearful idiots can focus their energies on worrying about an attack from space by the little green bogeymen.
You forgot to mention this part of the equation:
What about the ocean and boats?
That's... okay... 5 plus... ummmm...
$7.50 donated by the members of this board... so far.
...
Should have that fence built by 55,237 A.D.
Hail, Hail!!!
I think they're already pretty secure what with all the NARCS on patrol along your coastal borders.
Key Arena - Nov 05, 2000
Gorge Amphitheater - Sep 01, 2005, Jul 22,23, 2006
Key Arena - Sept 21,22, 2009
Alpine Valley - Sept 3, 4 2011
the berlin wall is quite possibly the finest example of the stupidity and bloodymindedness of man. no matter how much i think about it i still find it unfathomable that this was allowed to happen.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Irony... guess who is going to build the border fence?
Unsung? Usammasan?
Nope. Mexicans.
Hail, Hail!!!
im sure theyll put some sneaky trapdoors in it then.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
as opposed to the great wall in china? perhaps we can hire some chinese to build it...
actually no its not ok to come by boat, as evidenced by the cubans and those from the dominican lands that are pulled off of boats and sent back.
i want my country to be as welcoming as what the stupid statue of liberty claims it to be...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
theres no comparison. the berlin wall divided a nation and most heinously, families. it served no purpose but to embolden pigheaded men deluded by their ideology.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
2,356 People Have Donated $104,435.00 Donations Collected
an averag of 44.32