buildtheborderfence.com

Parachute

Jason P wrote:

I think this is an excellent solution to address federal issues that should not be top priority - private donations.

I think there are a lot of programs that should be addressed this way. That way, the taxpayer can direct their "sacrifices" to programs they support.

Good idea,

Let's start w/ welfare.

Parachute

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I think this is an excellent solution to address federal issues that should not be top priority - private donations.

I think there are a lot of programs that should be addressed this way. That way, the taxpayer can direct their "sacrifices" to programs they support.

Unless it's an unworkable and hair-brained idea that is just stupid and won't work.

Building a wall always works.

Just ask China and East-Germans.

Build the wall. And one for Canada while we're at it.

Parachute

ShimmyMommy wrote:

If there are going to put up a fence to keep people out...doesn't that keep people in? I agree with Gob...it sounds like a zoo...caging animals...

But who is rushing to get to Mexico right now?

ledvedderman

Parachute wrote:

ShimmyMommy wrote:

If there are going to put up a fence to keep people out...doesn't that keep people in? I agree with Gob...it sounds like a zoo...caging animals...

But who is rushing to get to Mexico right now?

Millions of US citizens do every year for vacation. But that's okay, right? I mean, we can go down there and have them serve us cocktails while we soak up some rays and enjoy life, but if those motherfuckers want to come here to have a better life...fuck them

usamamasan1

Long and strong.

Please, princeofdorkness, don't make this about gay porn based on my comment. thanks in advance.

unsung

ledvedderman wrote:

but if those motherfuckers want to come here to have a better life...fuck them

Not really. They could always just follow the laws to become legal, then they are welcomed.

If they arrive illegally, yeah "fuck them".

Jason P

No mater what your opinion on the fence is, please consider the following.

The website is missing a key piece of information ... specifications on the fence.

It has no estimated cost. It has no specifications .... even worse, it doesn't have a general guideline or idea of the fence. And it does not have and plan of implementation (with the exception that prisoners will be able to build the yet-to-be-defined fence for cheap).

For example, if I was building a border fence, this would be my criteria:

* Initial 8'-0" razor wire fence

* 300 yard gap between the first fence and the main fence

* Motion detectors in the 300 yard gap (reduces amount of personal required to enforce the fence)

* Main fence should be at least 20'-0" high and be constructed of impermeable materials (wood and wire fence would not be acceptable. More razor wire at the top of the fence.

* Vibration detectors in the ground to prevent tunnels

* Ten helicopters on duty to respond to detection warnings. Each chopper would be responsible for 200 miles. With three shifts per day, that would amount to 30 choppers, pilots, and maintenance techs.

Now how hard was that? It took me about five minutes to come up with that. I'm not saying it's the best or most effective plan ... but it's a plan and that's something the website lacks.

So why doesn't the website touch on this key criteria? Instead it just lists reasons why you should be afraid and loosly claims that prison labor will build it which would only account for a small portion. You still need project management, paid guards to monitor, skilled techs for the motion detection. And cost of materials is going to be much higher then labor costs for building a fence.

Several years ago I put in 11,000 feet of 7'-0" high aluminum chain-link fence (no razor wire or deterrent) and the cost was $104,000. That is a cost of $9.45 / foot or $49,920 per mile. To put this same system along 2,000 miles would cost $99,840,000 ... and this wouldn't stop a group of Jr. High kids.

The cost of building an effective fence as described above at least would be at least 20x higher .... oh, wait! I forgot this was a government project! Make it 100x higher!

Then you have to add in legal costs to fight all the lawsuits and injunctions. Yada, yada, yada.

The only thing it guarantees is that the money will go into a trust fund. I would be very skeptical about donating money to a project that clearly has yet to be thought out. You would be better off investing said money into PJ20 tickets.

I’m petitioning more to those of you who are in favor of the fence. Not because I’m trying to prevent a fence … it’s more because this sounds like this is a crooked way to steal money and just like most government ideas, it has not been clearly thought out.

81

Jason P wrote:

but it's a plan and that's something the website lacks.

just to be fair, they are just getting off the ground. there will be more info on the way on the website.

Jason P

81 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

but it's a plan and that's something the website lacks.

just to be fair, they are just getting off the ground. there will be more info on the way on the website.

This issue has been a hot topic for the last several years. Political grandstanding is one thing, but asking for donations for a hot-button issue that seems to split the public 50/50 seems unethical. The website did an excellent job of listing points of why you should be concerned and give them your money, but lacks any true goal.

If the border fence just came up two months ago, I would give them time to get off the ground. But remember, I came up with a proposal in about five minutes. This isn't a stealth airplane or the Three Gorges Dam, it's a fence. They don't even have a proposal?

ShimmyMommy

unsung wrote:

ledvedderman wrote:

but if those motherfuckers want to come here to have a better life...fuck them

Not really. They could always just follow the laws to become legal, then they are welcomed.

If they arrive illegally, yeah "fuck them".

So where does NAFTA come in?

I mean, since they want to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in, why are we sending many of our factories to Mexico for cheaper labour instead of paying our (American and Canadian) citizens fair wages?

That's gotta be hurting the economies too, all the while lining the pockets of big business.

Is the problem really illegal immigrants crossing the border, or businesses sending the jobs there?

Instead of asking donations to keep people out, why aren't they asking business to stay here?

81

Jason P wrote:

81 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

but it's a plan and that's something the website lacks.

just to be fair, they are just getting off the ground. there will be more info on the way on the website.

This issue has been a hot topic for the last several years. Political grandstanding is one thing, but asking for donations for a hot-button issue that seems to split the public 50/50 seems unethical. The website did an excellent job of listing points of why you should be concerned and give them your money, but lacks any true goal.

If the border fence just came up two months ago, I would give them time to get off the ground. But remember, I came up with a proposal in about five minutes. This isn't a stealth airplane or the Three Gorges Dam, it's a fence. They don't even have a proposal?

you and i both know it's easier to sit here and say this is how to do it, vs how stuff actually gets done. there is a lot more that goes into building a fence than saying, go build a fence. this website was just created becasue the AZ government just authorized it. give it more than a day

81

ShimmyMommy wrote:

unsung wrote:

ledvedderman wrote:

but if those motherfuckers want to come here to have a better life...fuck them

Not really. They could always just follow the laws to become legal, then they are welcomed.

If they arrive illegally, yeah "fuck them".

So where does NAFTA come in?

I mean, since they want to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in, why are we sending many of our factories to Mexico for cheaper labour instead of paying our (American and Canadian) citizens fair wages?

That's gotta be hurting the economies too, all the while lining the pockets of big business.

Is the problem really illegal immigrants crossing the border, or businesses sending the jobs there?

Instead of asking donations to keep people out, why aren't they asking business to stay here?

that is a whole different issue.

i have no problem with peopel wanting to come here, or even coming here. problem is, when you just let them come and go as they please, you end up with a shit ton of criminals/gangs/who knows what.

ShimmyMommy

81 wrote:

ShimmyMommy wrote:

that is a whole different issue.

i have no problem with peopel wanting to come here, or even coming here. problem is, when you just let them come and go as they please, you end up with a shit ton of criminals/gangs/who knows what.

Oh, that I agree with, they should come legally. But it's not just immigrants that start gangs or are criminals.

Yes, they might be totally different issues, but so many things affect each other when it comes to economy.

Building a wall just seems...archaic. But maybe that's just me.

81

ShimmyMommy wrote:

81 wrote:

ShimmyMommy wrote:

that is a whole different issue.

i have no problem with peopel wanting to come here, or even coming here. problem is, when you just let them come and go as they please, you end up with a shit ton of criminals/gangs/who knows what.

Oh, that I agree with, they should come legally. But it's not just immigrants that start gangs or are criminals.

Yes, they might be totally different issues, but so many things affect each other when it comes to economy.

Building a wall just seems...archaic. But maybe that's just me.

i understand, we have plenty of home grown criminals as well. i also understand we will never get rid of the current aliens since they do generate money for landlords, cities, counties and states via sales taxes.

Jason P

81 wrote:

you and i both know it's easier to sit here and say this is how to do it, vs how stuff actually gets done. there is a lot more that goes into building a fence than saying, go build a fence. this website was just created becasue the AZ government just authorized it. give it more than a day

They were pretty good at figuring out how to accept credit card and check donations on day 1. :think:

81

Jason P wrote:

81 wrote:

you and i both know it's easier to sit here and say this is how to do it, vs how stuff actually gets done. there is a lot more that goes into building a fence than saying, go build a fence. this website was just created becasue the AZ government just authorized it. give it more than a day

They were pretty good at figuring out how to accept credit card and check donations on day 1. :think:

well played.

but that's a whol lot easier than building 2K miles of fence

Kel Varnsen

Jason P wrote:

For example, if I was building a border fence, this would be my criteria:

* Initial 8'-0" razor wire fence

* 300 yard gap between the first fence and the main fence

* Motion detectors in the 300 yard gap (reduces amount of personal required to enforce the fence)

* Main fence should be at least 20'-0" high and be constructed of impermeable materials (wood and wire fence would not be acceptable. More razor wire at the top of the fence.

* Vibration detectors in the ground to prevent tunnels

* Ten helicopters on duty to respond to detection warnings. Each chopper would be responsible for 200 miles. With three shifts per day, that would amount to 30 choppers, pilots, and maintenance techs.

Now how hard was that? It took me about five minutes to come up with that. I'm not saying it's the best or most effective plan ... but it's a plan and that's something the website lacks.

So why doesn't the website touch on this key criteria? Instead it just lists reasons why you should be afraid and loosly claims that prison labor will build it which would only account for a small portion. You still need project management, paid guards to monitor, skilled techs for the motion detection. And cost of materials is going to be much higher then labor costs for building a fence.

Several years ago I put in 11,000 feet of 7'-0" high aluminum chain-link fence (no razor wire or deterrent) and the cost was $104,000. That is a cost of $9.45 / foot or $49,920 per mile. To put this same system along 2,000 miles would cost $99,840,000 ... and this wouldn't stop a group of Jr. High kids.

The cost of building an effective fence as described above at least would be at least 20x higher .... oh, wait! I forgot this was a government project! Make it 100x higher!

Then you have to add in legal costs to fight all the lawsuits and injunctions. Yada, yada, yada.

The only thing it guarantees is that the money will go into a trust fund. I would be very skeptical about donating money to a project that clearly has yet to be thought out. You would be better off investing said money into PJ20 tickets.

I’m petitioning more to those of you who are in favor of the fence. Not because I’m trying to prevent a fence … it’s more because this sounds like this is a crooked way to steal money and just like most government ideas, it has not been clearly thought out.

If you are going to be running power out to those motion sensors (many of which will probably be in the middle of deserts or uninhabited areas and will be super expensive to run power too) then you might as well install a bunch of spotlights along the fence too. But then of course you have to hire people to change the bulbs on a regular basis.

Jason P

81 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

81 wrote:

you and i both know it's easier to sit here and say this is how to do it, vs how stuff actually gets done. there is a lot more that goes into building a fence than saying, go build a fence. this website was just created becasue the AZ government just authorized it. give it more than a day

They were pretty good at figuring out how to accept credit card and check donations on day 1. :think:

well played.

but that's a whol lot easier than building 2K miles of fence

And if the government does have a strong suit, it's taking money from us.

Anywho, I guess my point is that those of you who are in support of the fence should wait until more information is available before making donations.

Jason P

Kel Varnsen wrote:

If you are going to be running power out to those motion sensors (many of which will probably be in the middle of deserts or uninhabited areas and will be super expensive to run power too) then you might as well install a bunch of spotlights along the fence too. But then of course you have to hire people to change the bulbs on a regular basis.

Maintenance costs would need to be considered. Also, using prisoners to build something where they are a few feet from escaping into a foreign country doesn't seem like the best idea to me.

I've come up with another solution that is probably a lot cheaper then building a 2,000 mile long fence. It's called a police department that enforces law.

markin ball

Jason P wrote:

No mater what your opinion on the fence is, please consider the following.

The website is missing a key piece of information ... specifications on the fence.

It has no estimated cost. It has no specifications .... even worse, it doesn't have a general guideline or idea of the fence. And it does not have and plan of implementation (with the exception that prisoners will be able to build the yet-to-be-defined fence for cheap).

For example, if I was building a border fence, this would be my criteria:

* Initial 8'-0" razor wire fence

* 300 yard gap between the first fence and the main fence

* Motion detectors in the 300 yard gap (reduces amount of personal required to enforce the fence)

* Main fence should be at least 20'-0" high and be constructed of impermeable materials (wood and wire fence would not be acceptable. More razor wire at the top of the fence.

* Vibration detectors in the ground to prevent tunnels

* Ten helicopters on duty to respond to detection warnings. Each chopper would be responsible for 200 miles. With three shifts per day, that would amount to 30 choppers, pilots, and maintenance techs.

Now how hard was that? It took me about five minutes to come up with that. I'm not saying it's the best or most effective plan ... but it's a plan and that's something the website lacks.

So why doesn't the website touch on this key criteria? Instead it just lists reasons why you should be afraid and loosly claims that prison labor will build it which would only account for a small portion. You still need project management, paid guards to monitor, skilled techs for the motion detection. And cost of materials is going to be much higher then labor costs for building a fence.

Several years ago I put in 11,000 feet of 7'-0" high aluminum chain-link fence (no razor wire or deterrent) and the cost was $104,000. That is a cost of $9.45 / foot or $49,920 per mile. To put this same system along 2,000 miles would cost $99,840,000 ... and this wouldn't stop a group of Jr. High kids.

The cost of building an effective fence as described above at least would be at least 20x higher .... oh, wait! I forgot this was a government project! Make it 100x higher!

Then you have to add in legal costs to fight all the lawsuits and injunctions. Yada, yada, yada.

The only thing it guarantees is that the money will go into a trust fund. I would be very skeptical about donating money to a project that clearly has yet to be thought out. You would be better off investing said money into PJ20 tickets.

I’m petitioning more to those of you who are in favor of the fence. Not because I’m trying to prevent a fence … it’s more because this sounds like this is a crooked way to steal money and just like most government ideas, it has not been clearly thought out.

Yep.