California school's to teach glbt history by 2015

Godfather.

FiveB247x wrote:

I'm not nice huh? I find it funny that you're complaining cause I called a spade a spade, yet find it ok to be pretty blase about bigotry and discrimination. You justify such ideas and thoughts to yourself, but it doesn't mean it's ok... atleast not to me.

Godfather. wrote:

now that wasn't very nice FiveB did you wake up on the wrong side of the back seat today ?
Godfather.

that's a good point " You (me) justify such ideas but it dosn't mean it's o.k." you may not like this and I mean no offense but you just as everybody else justify your/their thoughts and ideas and stand behind them as true and correct ....now if my thoughts and ideas are not the same as yours who is right and who is wrong ?
you all know my feelings on the gay issue but allowing me the same respect to say how I feel about it does that make my thoughts wrong ? and because of my view on gay issue's I am a bigot and discriminating aginst the gay community ?

Godfather.

PJPOWER

Well, if the education system does as good of a job teaching about that as they do math and geography...kids are still not going to know what the hell is going on when little Timmy can't stop staring at Billy's ass :roll:

keeponrockin

Godfather. wrote:

that's a good point " You (me) justify such ideas but it dosn't mean it's o.k." you may not like this and I mean no offense but you just as everybody else justify your/their thoughts and ideas and stand behind them as true and correct ....now if my thoughts and ideas are not the same as yours who is right and who is wrong ?
you all know my feelings on the gay issue but allowing me the same respect to say how I feel about it does that make my thoughts wrong ? and because of my view on gay issue's I am a bigot and discriminating aginst the gay community ?

Godfather.

If I were to say something like 'segregation was a great thing and black people should be treated as second class citizens' would people be able to say I'm wrong, or is it just my thoughts?

Godfather.

keeponrockin wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

that's a good point " You (me) justify such ideas but it dosn't mean it's o.k." you may not like this and I mean no offense but you just as everybody else justify your/their thoughts and ideas and stand behind them as true and correct ....now if my thoughts and ideas are not the same as yours who is right and who is wrong ?
you all know my feelings on the gay issue but allowing me the same respect to say how I feel about it does that make my thoughts wrong ? and because of my view on gay issue's I am a bigot and discriminating aginst the gay community ?

Godfather.

If I were to say something like 'segregation was a great thing and black people should be treated as second class citizens' would people be able to say I'm wrong, or is it just my thoughts?

depends on what part of the country you are from, I didn't say anything negative about the gay issue or the gay people I don't judge people on on their sexual desires,I don't agree with gay sex or relationships but the bottom line is that people are people...and why is it that every time a issue like this comes up someone here has to bring up the race card...thats always the ez way out for everything when people debate an issue here, kinda week in my opinion.

Godfather.

mikepegg44

Godfather. wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

that's a good point " You (me) justify such ideas but it dosn't mean it's o.k." you may not like this and I mean no offense but you just as everybody else justify your/their thoughts and ideas and stand behind them as true and correct ....now if my thoughts and ideas are not the same as yours who is right and who is wrong ?
you all know my feelings on the gay issue but allowing me the same respect to say how I feel about it does that make my thoughts wrong ? and because of my view on gay issue's I am a bigot and discriminating aginst the gay community ?

Godfather.

If I were to say something like 'segregation was a great thing and black people should be treated as second class citizens' would people be able to say I'm wrong, or is it just my thoughts?

depends on what part of the country you are from, I didn't say anything negative about the gay issue or the gay people I don't judge people on on their sexual desires,I don't agree with gay sex or relationships but the bottom line is that people are people...and why is it that every time a issue like this comes up someone here has to bring up the race card...thats always the ez way out for everything when people debate an issue here, kinda week in my opinion.

Godfather.

its similar, they are both biological differences that people discriminate against. So the comparison is pretty valid in this instance.
that is why. And no, it doesn't depend on what part of the country you are from...it is always wrong to discriminate against someone for biological differences. "not agreeing" with "gay sex or relationships" is like not agreeing with someone having one leg shorter than the other, or a lazy eye.
You can feel however you like, but if the way you feel is discriminatory someone is going to call you out on it...as well they should. It isn't ok.

Godfather.

so mike that opens the door for discrimimation on many levels and issues right ?
at my own personal level debate and discrimination are very different.
when FiveB posted a comment saying I was not that smart should I assume he was discriminating aginst anybody with a learning disability ?...get my point ?

Godfather.

mikepegg44

Godfather. wrote:

so mike that opens the door for discrimimation on many levels and issues right ?
at my own personal level debate and discrimination are very different.
when FiveB posted a comment saying I was not that smart should I assume he was discriminating aginst anybody with a learning disability ?...get my point ?

Godfather.

no i don't.

People with learning disabilities shouldn't be discriminated against. People who willfully did not pay attention in school and do not want to educate themselves are not suffering from a learning disability. They chose not to learn or learned the material and simply forgot it. Either way, it doesn't matter, it isn't a choice to have dyslexia...not going to school or not paying attention when you are there is a choice. I don't know any clearer way to say it.
Someone should not be discriminated against because of biology.
What is there to debate about biology? You can always call an asshole an asshole no matter their biological make up, but you cannot disagree with homosexuality any more than you can disagree with being white.

Godfather.

so according to you guy's sense I don't agree with the gay idea I am discriminating aginst the gay community
or anybody who is gay ?

Godfather.

FiveB247x

Actually, the a poster said "you're smarter than that" and my reply was "obviously not" - because of your comments.

Secondly, when is it acceptable to discriminate? The answer is NEVER. But because you think your religion or some other groups of people agree, it makes it a legitimate or opinion of merit - it's not. A racist typically doesn't walk around saying their a racist, but instead proclaims he's just viewing society or people around in a specific manner. That is all this anti-gay nonsense is.. except some use religion or morality or family values or whatever other nonsensical excuse to discriminate. And to further explain the point, it is not simply having an opinion on the matter as is to seek approval of society, but instead these are the reasons why gays don't have the same rights as anyone else in society. That's why it is not simply an opinion of meaningless or a matter of being right/wrong. We are discriminating in our society because of a sexual orientation - that's unacceptable and no different from minorities not being able to vote, or women voting or segregation.

Godfather. wrote:

so according to you guy's sense I don't agree with the gay idea I am discriminating aginst the gay community
or anybody who is gay ?

Godfather.

Jason P

FiveB247x wrote:

Secondly, when is it acceptable to discriminate? The answer is NEVER.

What about Trekkies and fans of the New England Patriots? Surely that doesn't make me a bad person, does it? :think:

FiveB247x

ALbeit I'm no trekkie (prefer star wars) and I hate the Pats, I think they should still have the same rights as everyone... well maybe not Bellichek.. he can rot in hell!

Jason P wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Secondly, when is it acceptable to discriminate? The answer is NEVER.

What about Trekkies and fans of the New England Patriots? Surely that doesn't make me a bad person, does it? :think:

BinauralJam

I'd pay attention. I don't know if i would be able to leave class when the bell rang... might need a few minutes.

keeponrockin

Godfather. wrote:

depends on what part of the country you are from, I didn't say anything negative about the gay issue or the gay people I don't judge people on on their sexual desires,I don't agree with gay sex or relationships but the bottom line is that people are people...and why is it that every time a issue like this comes up someone here has to bring up the race card...thats always the ez way out for everything when people debate an issue here, kinda week in my opinion.

Godfather.

It was the easiest comparison I can think of to be honest. I think that minority history is important, and maybe it'll inspire the one gay kid in the class, and make him or her feel better, as African Americans might feel prouder about there community when learning about civil rights leaders. Can't be a bad thing IMO.

Godfather.

FiveB247x wrote:

Actually, the a poster said "you're smarter than that" and my reply was "obviously not" - because of your comments.

Secondly, when is it acceptable to discriminate? The answer is NEVER. But because you think your religion or some other groups of people agree, it makes it a legitimate or opinion of merit - it's not. A racist typically doesn't walk around saying their a racist, but instead proclaims he's just viewing society or people around in a specific manner. That is all this anti-gay nonsense is.. except some use religion or morality or family values or whatever other nonsensical excuse to discriminate. And to further explain the point, it is not simply having an opinion on the matter as is to seek approval of society, but instead these are the reasons why gays don't have the same rights as anyone else in society. That's why it is not simply an opinion of meaningless or a matter of being right/wrong. We are discriminating in our society because of a sexual orientation - that's unacceptable and no different from minorities not being able to vote, or women voting or segregation.

Godfather. wrote:

so according to you guy's sense I don't agree with the gay idea I am discriminating aginst the gay community
or anybody who is gay ?

Godfather.

maaan brother just about your whole post (except some use religion or morality or family values or whatever other nonsensical excuse to discriminate.) is a example of what you call discrimination I'm not nailing on you I'm just saying the word discriminate seems to have a wide circle of meaning and it look like it comes right back to the accuser.

Godfather.

Godfather.

keeponrockin wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

depends on what part of the country you are from, I didn't say anything negative about the gay issue or the gay people I don't judge people on on their sexual desires,I don't agree with gay sex or relationships but the bottom line is that people are people...and why is it that every time a issue like this comes up someone here has to bring up the race card...thats always the ez way out for everything when people debate an issue here, kinda week in my opinion.

Godfather.

It was the easiest comparison I can think of to be honest. I think that minority history is important, and maybe it'll inspire the one gay kid in the class, and make him or her feel better, as African Americans might feel prouder about there community when learning about civil rights leaders. Can't be a bad thing IMO.

agreed.

Godfather.

FiveB247x

Care to elaborate? Not sure what you're attempting to say. Are you saying because I don't respect people's right to feel this way, I am discriminating against people who are anti-gay (for whatever the reason)? Please explain.

And this is from the dictionary:
dis·crim·i·nate
1.to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit; show partiality
2.to note or observe a difference; distinguish accurately

Godfather. wrote:

maaan brother just about your whole post (except some use religion or morality or family values or whatever other nonsensical excuse to discriminate.) is a example of what you call discrimination I'm not nailing on you I'm just saying the word discriminate seems to have a wide circle of meaning and it look like it comes right back to the accuser.

Godfather.

aerial

FiveB247x wrote:

Actually, the a poster said "you're smarter than that" and my reply was "obviously not" - because of your comments.

Secondly, when is it acceptable to discriminate? The answer is NEVER. But because you think your religion or some other groups of people agree, it makes it a legitimate or opinion of merit - it's not. A racist typically doesn't walk around saying their a racist, but instead proclaims he's just viewing society or people around in a specific manner. That is all this anti-gay nonsense is.. except some use religion or morality or family values or whatever other nonsensical excuse to discriminate. And to further explain the point, it is not simply having an opinion on the matter as is to seek approval of society, but instead these are the reasons why gays don't have the same rights as anyone else in society. That's why it is not simply an opinion of meaningless or a matter of being right/wrong. We are discriminating in our society because of a sexual orientation - that's unacceptable and no different from minorities not being able to vote, or women voting or segregation.

Godfather. wrote:

so according to you guy's sense I don't agree with the gay idea I am discriminating aginst the gay community
or anybody who is gay ?

Godfather.

If there is an option to opt out, I guess I could live with it. I personally feel sex should not be taught at school. There dropping sport activities yet they add this?
It is a travesty that some feel religion, morality or family values are Nonsensical.

FiveB247x

Sports and After school activities are being dropped because of budget reasons - ie they have to pay teachers extra to coach or monitor them. Also, sex education has been in school systems for quite some time and it appears this new area would be taught,not from a sex education leaning, but a historical one.. ie no different from learning about other groups through the course of history. We learn all about women and minorities rights and leaders as a method of teaching history.. how is that any different? They're all ways to show how we've grown as a society and earmark certain people as pioneers contributing to freedoms and equality. How exactly is that wrong or bad?

Also, my comments about religion, morality and family values was meant specifically in the line of thought that it is used as an excuse to discriminate against people. I have one value which I think everyone could and should do, be a decent human being and treat each other fairly and equally. Doesn't seem like some people care to do that simply because of secondary reasons which they themselves justify. And in the end of the day, those secondary reasons still don't justify or equate to a good reason. If I said I hate some minority group and they shouldn't be afforded the same rights as the rest of society, just because I find it a valid opinion, doesn't make it ok nor makes it right or just...and yes, even if your religion tells you otherwise. Last I recall, most morally decent people treat everyone the same, and most religions tell their followers to be kind and decent and let god judge, not humans.. but I guess that's not applicable? Discrimination is not a decent moral code or value to be adhering too and if you find yourself saying it is, perhaps you should reconsider your morals, follow the basic tenets of your religion instead of using them to ostracize people in society.

aerial wrote:

If there is an option to opt out, I guess I could live with it. I personally feel sex should not be taught at school. There dropping sport activities yet they add this?
It is a travesty that some feel religion, morality or family values are Nonsensical.

know1

I guess it depends on the context in which it is taught.

I don't really think it's appropriate to teach something like: "Columbus landed in the West in 1492,and he also enjoyed sexual relations with his first mate" is just plain stupid and wrong.

If it's in the context of "In 2011, New York voted to legalize gay marriage." Then I don't have a problem with it.

EdsonNascimento

I dont even know what this means other than public appeasement. Have our history books excluded gay historical figures? Or is it that important to know the sexual orientation of them? I mean, it's not like they taught us about Jefferson's sex life with his servant, so why would the opposite even matter? I really don't see the big deal. The only big deal here is maybe integrating some of the civil rights moments into that part of the lesson plan, and that sounds like a completely reasonable thing to do. It puts yet another perspective on what being a civil activist means and the diversity we should all be considerate of. My NY school was teaching this 25 years ago.

I think sometimes folks get frightened that any reference to gay education means teaching kids to be gay. Does teaching about slavery make us want to be servants? I'm missing something from this argument.

I'm always amazed by how far the rest of the country is behind the northeast at times. Even a state like California which is supposed to be so inclusive. To me, having lived my whole live here, this is a yawn issue. But I guess some places still need to catch up. Would just be better if they just did it instead of making it a political issue all the time.