Gaza Freedom Flotilla

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  • usamamasan1
    usamamasan1 Posts: 4,695
    you said ti squirrel
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    in any case - since when did activists with metal poles and knives vs. heavily trained military forces unit with guns become a fair fight?
    Special Forces are usually not interested in creating a fair fight.

    When Israel intercepts this ship, I hope the crew of activists remain calm and passive. This is akin to playing hacky-sack with a hornet's nest.

    yeah ... of course not ... the problem is that they don't have a history of acting in good faith ... sometimes the orders are to shoot to kill ... if that is the case - one is gonna defend themselves any way possible ...
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,470
    Jason P wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    in any case - since when did activists with metal poles and knives vs. heavily trained military forces unit with guns become a fair fight?
    Special Forces are usually not interested in creating a fair fight.

    When Israel intercepts this ship, I hope the crew of activists remain calm and passive. This is akin to playing hacky-sack with a hornet's nest.
    at the time of the attack the activists were calm and passive. the raid was conducted under cover of darkness while most passengers were sleeping. it was an outright attack. i don't know how you would react if someone boarded your boat in the middle of the night in international waters, but more people will go down defending themselves than not.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    at the time of the attack the activists were calm and passive. the raid was conducted under cover of darkness while most passengers were sleeping. it was an outright attack. i don't know how you would react if someone boarded your boat in the middle of the night in international waters, but more people will go down defending themselves than not.
    I'm not sure how I would react .... I guess it would depend if I was on boat via my own free will whose destination was to clash horns with a country who historically has used excessive force to defend itself, or if I was sailing off the coast of Florida and Seal Team Six stormed my quarters while mistaking my for Al-Qaeda. In the first case, I would probably have a good idea what was going on and would drop to my hands and knees and await capture ... in the second case I would probably have no idea what was going on and would probably get shot while wildly swinging a lamp around for defense.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    polaris_x wrote:
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Also….were these ships not boarded in international waters? How can a military action against a ship from another country be considered self defense when the ship is in international waters? I’m not being a smartass, I’m curious how the report justifies these questions.

    hey dude ... just as an fyi ... boarding the ship in international waters is irrelevant as long as the blockade is deemed legal ... so, ultimately the question is the legality of the blockade ...
    Fair enough.
    So is the legality in question or not?
    Seems obvious it was, at least, at the time of the first flotilla...

    Soooo......Shoot first, ask questions later? Because fuck it, Israel doesn't care what anyone else's definition of 'humanitarian aid' is, if it doesn't fit with their preconceived notion of what it means to support terrorism.
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    "Israel says the continuing blockade is necessary to keep weapons from reaching the Palestinian militant group Hamas that rules Gaza. It says the ships can dock in Israeli or Egyptian ports and their cargo can be transferred to Gaza legally over land."
    So why don't they do it the peaceful way?
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,470
    aerial wrote:
    "Israel says the continuing blockade is necessary to keep weapons from reaching the Palestinian militant group Hamas that rules Gaza. It says the ships can dock in Israeli or Egyptian ports and their cargo can be transferred to Gaza legally over land."
    So why don't they do it the peaceful way?
    because they are bringing the world's attention to a human rights atrocity that has been going on for far too long.

    what you are suggesting is like saying "why did martin luther king go on tv and give speeches and galvanize a nationwide movement instead of complying with local jim crow laws?" without him the civil rights movement would not have been as successful as it was. it is all about drawing attention to the problem. reasonable people will recognize the inhumanity of the siutation and possibly demand action.

    well behaved and compliant people rarely change the world....

    your average american might remember hearing something about the first flotilla last year, but then they forgot about it and started watching american idol. this is a way of spreading their message that the blockade is not just wrong, but illegal.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    aerial wrote:
    They call themselves peace activists, but the video of their actions shows something else. These people are ignorant they go up against the Military and expects not to get hurt. :roll:

    The videos were fakes. Any five-year old can see that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRisp8EIRIM
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Freedom Flotilla Homepage: http://gazaflotilla101.com/
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    aerial wrote:
    "Israel says the continuing blockade is necessary to keep weapons from reaching the Palestinian militant group Hamas that rules Gaza. It says the ships can dock in Israeli or Egyptian ports and their cargo can be transferred to Gaza legally over land."
    So why don't they do it the peaceful way?

    because things like jam, fresh meat, wood, fabric, dried fruit, newspapers, toys, etc.. are prohibited from entering gaza ... because this blockade is causing undue suffering of the inhabitants of gaza ...
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    aerial wrote:
    They call themselves peace activists, but the video of their actions shows something else. These people are ignorant they go up against the Military and expects not to get hurt. :roll:

    What do you think Israel's mulit-million $$ public relations industry is doing all day? Sitting around playing Cluedo?
  • bigdvs
    bigdvs Posts: 235
    http://pajamasmedia.com/barryrubin/2011 ... /#comments

    By Barry Rubin

    A second flotilla of ships is going to the Gaza Strip. Or should I say, trying to go there since it will be stopped if necessary by a legal Israeli blockade. In the first flotilla, the Islamist holy warriors organized by the Turkish government-backed IHH group all gathered on one ship. The other boats, the ships of (political) tools cooperated, no one was injured, and they were towed into port. The ship of jihadists attacked Israeli soldiers, kidnapped and beat up a couple of them, and had the “victory” of getting nine martyrs out of it. Let us never forget that when the Israeli Defense Forces made public a video showing these facts the New York Times blog in a particularly shameful moment dismissed it alleging that the soldiers might have been shooting down unarmed civilians just standing around the deck before the film began. (Thus posing the twenty-first century journalistic question: Who are you going to believe, the facts and your eyes or your predetermined ideological bias?)

    This time there’s also a different strategy for the flotilla itself. The would-be terrorists have dispersed themselves among the naive “peace activists” who, whether wittingly or not, are helping a revolutionary Islamist terrorist group intent on committing genocide on Jews, expelling Christians, repressing women, and murdering gay people in their drive to impose a totalitarian state. Thus, there are two possibilities: the “peace activists” will pretend they are civil rights’ demonstrators and be nonviolent or the Islamists will try to provoke violence so as to reap good publicity. According to reliable information, some of the Islamist participants have spoken in conversation of their desire to kill Israeli soldiers. Some are also equipped with sulfuric acid to throw at Israel soldiers. We will see which of these scenarios take place.

    A number of the organizing groups are fronts for Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood, raising money and political support for these organizations and often controlled by them. In other words, revolutionary Islamists are using Western pacifists and leftists to achieve their own ends. It isn’t clear whether Lenin invented the phrase “useful idiots” but it is useful nonetheless.

    Here are some resources on the flotilla, its background, and participants:

    Details on organizing groups

    NGO Monitor page “International NGOs and the Second Gaza Flotilla: Links to Terror, No Humanitarian Purpose”


    Canadian information

    Stand With Us site
    "The really important thing is not to live, but to live well. And to live well meant, along with more enjoyable things in life, to live according to your principles."
    — Socrates

  • Parachute
    Parachute Posts: 409
    usamamasan1 wrote:
    whatever happens will be the fault of those in the flotilla.
    :idea:


    AGREED.

    "Our boat, The Audacity of Hope" :lol: hahahaha.

    Hate the jews... blah blah... Its the Jews fault... blah, blah...... we live in mud huts and throw rocks.... blah blah..., bomb the jews... blah, blah.....

    Anti-semitism: Old as my Grampa's wooden rubber.

    yawn... moving on because I couldn't care less.
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    bigdvs wrote:
    http://pajamasmedia.com/barryrubin/2011/06/28/thoughts-on-the-gaza-flotilla-ii/#comments

    By Barry Rubin

    A second flotilla of ships is going to the Gaza Strip. Or should I say, trying to go there since it will be stopped if necessary by a legal Israeli blockade. In the first flotilla, the Islamist holy warriors organized by the Turkish government-backed IHH group all gathered on one ship. The other boats, the ships of (political) tools cooperated, no one was injured, and they were towed into port. The ship of jihadists attacked Israeli soldiers, kidnapped and beat up a couple of them, and had the “victory” of getting nine martyrs out of it. Let us never forget that when the Israeli Defense Forces made public a video showing these facts the New York Times blog in a particularly shameful moment dismissed it alleging that the soldiers might have been shooting down unarmed civilians just standing around the deck before the film began. (Thus posing the twenty-first century journalistic question: Who are you going to believe, the facts and your eyes or your predetermined ideological bias?)

    This time there’s also a different strategy for the flotilla itself. The would-be terrorists have dispersed themselves among the naive “peace activists” who, whether wittingly or not, are helping a revolutionary Islamist terrorist group intent on committing genocide on Jews, expelling Christians, repressing women, and murdering gay people in their drive to impose a totalitarian state. Thus, there are two possibilities: the “peace activists” will pretend they are civil rights’ demonstrators and be nonviolent or the Islamists will try to provoke violence so as to reap good publicity. According to reliable information, some of the Islamist participants have spoken in conversation of their desire to kill Israeli soldiers. Some are also equipped with sulfuric acid to throw at Israel soldiers. We will see which of these scenarios take place.

    A number of the organizing groups are fronts for Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood, raising money and political support for these organizations and often controlled by them. In other words, revolutionary Islamists are using Western pacifists and leftists to achieve their own ends. It isn’t clear whether Lenin invented the phrase “useful idiots” but it is useful nonetheless.

    Here are some resources on the flotilla, its background, and participants:

    Details on organizing groups

    NGO Monitor page “International NGOs and the Second Gaza Flotilla: Links to Terror, No Humanitarian Purpose”


    Canadian information

    Stand With Us site

    Finally someone with the facts. That does not spin it. :clap:
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,470
    bigdvs wrote:
    http://pajamasmedia.com/barryrubin/2011/06/28/thoughts-on-the-gaza-flotilla-ii/#comments

    By Barry Rubin

    A second flotilla of ships is going to the Gaza Strip. Or should I say, trying to go there since it will be stopped if necessary by a legal Israeli blockade. In the first flotilla, the Islamist holy warriors organized by the Turkish government-backed IHH group all gathered on one ship. The other boats, the ships of (political) tools cooperated, no one was injured, and they were towed into port. The ship of jihadists attacked Israeli soldiers, kidnapped and beat up a couple of them, and had the “victory” of getting nine martyrs out of it. Let us never forget that when the Israeli Defense Forces made public a video showing these facts the New York Times blog in a particularly shameful moment dismissed it alleging that the soldiers might have been shooting down unarmed civilians just standing around the deck before the film began. (Thus posing the twenty-first century journalistic question: Who are you going to believe, the facts and your eyes or your predetermined ideological bias?)

    This time there’s also a different strategy for the flotilla itself. The would-be terrorists have dispersed themselves among the naive “peace activists” who, whether wittingly or not, are helping a revolutionary Islamist terrorist group intent on committing genocide on Jews, expelling Christians, repressing women, and murdering gay people in their drive to impose a totalitarian state. Thus, there are two possibilities: the “peace activists” will pretend they are civil rights’ demonstrators and be nonviolent or the Islamists will try to provoke violence so as to reap good publicity. According to reliable information, some of the Islamist participants have spoken in conversation of their desire to kill Israeli soldiers. Some are also equipped with sulfuric acid to throw at Israel soldiers. We will see which of these scenarios take place.

    A number of the organizing groups are fronts for Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood, raising money and political support for these organizations and often controlled by them. In other words, revolutionary Islamists are using Western pacifists and leftists to achieve their own ends. It isn’t clear whether Lenin invented the phrase “useful idiots” but it is useful nonetheless.

    Here are some resources on the flotilla, its background, and participants:

    Details on organizing groups

    NGO Monitor page “International NGOs and the Second Gaza Flotilla: Links to Terror, No Humanitarian Purpose”


    Canadian information

    Stand With Us site
    this is probably the biggest, most biased op ed piece i have ever read....

    here is a bio on the guy who wrote it.

    "Barry Rubin is a professor at the Interdisciplinary Center (IDC) in Herzliya, Israel, the director of the Israel-based Global Research in International Affairs Center[1] (GLORIA) of the IDC, and a senior fellow at the Interdisciplinary Center's International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism. He is also Research Director of the IDC's Lauder School of Government, Diplomacy, and Strategy; the editor of the journal Turkish Studies; the editor of The Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA); a member of the editorial board of Middle East Quarterly. He blogs regularly.[2]

    Rubin was a deputy director of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies (BESA).

    He has been a Fulbright and a Council on Foreign Relations/National Endowment for the Humanities International Affairs Fellow; a U.S. Institute of Peace, Harry Frank Guggenheim Foundation, and Leonard Davis Center grantee; a Senior Fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, Johns Hopkins University Foreign Policy Institute (where he directed the program on terrorism funded by the Ford and the Bradley Foundations), and Georgetown University Center for Strategic and International Studies.

    He is married to Judith Colp Rubin, with whom he co-wrote Hating America: A History (2004) and co-edited a related collection of essays entitled Loathing America (2004).[3]

    He has been a guest on such television programs as This Week with David Brinkley, Nightline, Face the Nation, The MacNeil-Lehrer NewsHour, The Larry King Show, and others on CBS News, CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC. Among the newspapers around the world for which he has written are La Vanguardia in Spain, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung in Germany; The National Post and The Globe and Mail in Canada; La Opinión, Liberal Forum, and Limes in Italy; The Age, The Australian, The Sydney Morning Herald, and The Australian Financial Review in Australia; Zaman, Referens, and Radikal in Turkey; and The Pioneer in India."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Rubin

    so yeah, he is an unbiased authority... :roll: :roll:
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    aerial wrote:
    bigdvs wrote:
    http://pajamasmedia.com/barryrubin/2011/06/28/thoughts-on-the-gaza-flotilla-ii/#comments

    By Barry Rubin

    A second flotilla of ships is going to the Gaza Strip. Or should I say, trying to go there since it will be stopped if necessary by a legal Israeli blockade. In the first flotilla, the Islamist holy warriors organized by the Turkish government-backed IHH group all gathered on one ship. The other boats, the ships of (political) tools cooperated, no one was injured, and they were towed into port. The ship of jihadists attacked Israeli soldiers, kidnapped and beat up a couple of them, and had the “victory” of getting nine martyrs out of it. Let us never forget that when the Israeli Defense Forces made public a video showing these facts the New York Times blog in a particularly shameful moment dismissed it alleging that the soldiers might have been shooting down unarmed civilians just standing around the deck before the film began. (Thus posing the twenty-first century journalistic question: Who are you going to believe, the facts and your eyes or your predetermined ideological bias?)

    This time there’s also a different strategy for the flotilla itself. The would-be terrorists have dispersed themselves among the naive “peace activists” who, whether wittingly or not, are helping a revolutionary Islamist terrorist group intent on committing genocide on Jews, expelling Christians, repressing women, and murdering gay people in their drive to impose a totalitarian state. Thus, there are two possibilities: the “peace activists” will pretend they are civil rights’ demonstrators and be nonviolent or the Islamists will try to provoke violence so as to reap good publicity. According to reliable information, some of the Islamist participants have spoken in conversation of their desire to kill Israeli soldiers. Some are also equipped with sulfuric acid to throw at Israel soldiers. We will see which of these scenarios take place.

    A number of the organizing groups are fronts for Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood, raising money and political support for these organizations and often controlled by them. In other words, revolutionary Islamists are using Western pacifists and leftists to achieve their own ends. It isn’t clear whether Lenin invented the phrase “useful idiots” but it is useful nonetheless.

    Here are some resources on the flotilla, its background, and participants:

    Details on organizing groups

    NGO Monitor page “International NGOs and the Second Gaza Flotilla: Links to Terror, No Humanitarian Purpose”


    Canadian information

    Stand With Us site

    Finally someone with the facts. That does not spin it. :clap:

    bwahahahahahahahahaha
  • usamamasan1
    usamamasan1 Posts: 4,695
    Parachute wrote:
    usamamasan1 wrote:
    whatever happens will be the fault of those in the flotilla.
    :idea:


    AGREED.

    "Our boat, The Audacity of Hope" :lol: hahahaha.

    Hate the jews... blah blah... Its the Jews fault... blah, blah...... we live in mud huts and throw rocks.... blah blah..., bomb the jews... blah, blah.....

    Anti-semitism: Old as my Grampa's wooden rubber.

    yawn... moving on because I couldn't care less.

    ever seen this? I know its old (2005) but wow.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1456395/posts
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    aerial wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    usamamasan1 wrote:
    whatever happens will be the fault of those in the flotilla.
    :idea:

    Of course it will. Unarmed protestors delivering aid to an imprisoned people under military blockade will surely be at fault if the IDF decide to murder them all.

    did you know knives and metal poles are weapons?

    and oppression is a loaded gun. whats your point?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    bigdvs wrote:
    http://pajamasmedia.com/barryrubin/2011/06/28/thoughts-on-the-gaza-flotilla-ii/#comments

    By Barry Rubin

    A second flotilla of ships is going to the Gaza Strip. Or should I say, trying to go there since it will be stopped if necessary by a legal Israeli blockade.


    The Israeli blockade of Gaza is illegal.

    Norman Finkelstein:
    'In a study entitled 'One Big Prison', the respected Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem observed that the crippling economic arrangements Israel had imposed on Gaza would remain in place. In addition, Israel would continue to maintain absolute control over Gaza's land borders, coastline, and airspace, and the Israeli army would continue to operate in Gaza. "So long as these methods of control remain in Israeli hands," B'Tselem concluded, "Israel's claim of 'an end of the Occupation' is questionable". HRW (Human Rights Watch) was even more emphatic that evacuating settlers and troops from inside Gaza would not end the occupation: "Whether the Israeli army is inside Gaza or redeployed around it's periphery, and restricting entrance and exit, it remains in control."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7069203.stm
    'An occupying power is obliged to follow the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention, which seeks to protect the civilian population. The Security Council held in 1979 that the Fourth Convention did apply in the territories captured by Israel in 1967.

    Article 48 of the additional protocol would seem to be most relevant in this case: "... The Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objective."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_o ... _arguments
    'Amnesty International said that “The blockade constitutes collective punishment under international law and must be lifted immediately.” And that as the occupying power, Israel has a duty under international law to ensure the welfare of Gaza’s inhabitants, including their rights to health, education, food and adequate housing.'
    bigdvs wrote:
    In the first flotilla, the Islamist holy warriors organized by the Turkish government-backed IHH group all gathered on one ship. The other boats, the ships of (political) tools cooperated, no one was injured, and they were towed into port. The ship of jihadists attacked Israeli soldiers, kidnapped and beat up a couple of them, and had the “victory” of getting nine martyrs out of it. Let us never forget that when the Israeli Defense Forces made public a video showing these facts the New York Times blog in a particularly shameful moment dismissed it alleging that the soldiers might have been shooting down unarmed civilians just standing around the deck before the film began. (Thus posing the twenty-first century journalistic question: Who are you going to believe, the facts and your eyes or your predetermined ideological bias?)

    This time there’s also a different strategy for the flotilla itself. The would-be terrorists have dispersed themselves among the naive “peace activists” who, whether wittingly or not, are helping a revolutionary Islamist terrorist group intent on committing genocide on Jews, expelling Christians, repressing women, and murdering gay people in their drive to impose a totalitarian state. Thus, there are two possibilities: the “peace activists” will pretend they are civil rights’ demonstrators and be nonviolent or the Islamists will try to provoke violence so as to reap good publicity. According to reliable information, some of the Islamist participants have spoken in conversation of their desire to kill Israeli soldiers. Some are also equipped with sulfuric acid to throw at Israel soldiers. We will see which of these scenarios take place.

    A number of the organizing groups are fronts for Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood, raising money and political support for these organizations and often controlled by them. In other words, revolutionary Islamists are using Western pacifists and leftists to achieve their own ends. It isn’t clear whether Lenin invented the phrase “useful idiots” but it is useful nonetheless.

    Here are some resources on the flotilla, its background, and participants:

    Details on organizing groups

    NGO Monitor page “International NGOs and the Second Gaza Flotilla: Links to Terror, No Humanitarian Purpose”


    Canadian information

    Stand With Us site



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_floti ... passengers
    'According to an early IDF press release, the ship carried 75 mercenaries with links to al-Qaeda and other terror organizations, who carried $10,000 apiece on their persons,[65] The claim was never substantiated and was later withdrawn...

    Autopsies performed in Turkey showed that eight of the nine killed had died of 9mm gunshot wounds, with one death from an unnamed atypical round. Five had gunshot wounds to the head and at least four were shot from both back and front.[14][19] According to the UNHRC report, six were the victims of "summary executions," including two shot after they were severely injured.'

    The summary execution of nine unarmed aid activists, supported and condoned by bigdvs.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    usamamasan1 wrote:
    ever seen this? I know its old (2005) but wow.

    Nobel Prizes (Jews vs Muslims)

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1456395/posts


    What's your point?

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