what I find hilarious is that in the previous death penalty thread, so many pro-DPers tried to claim that it was much cheaper to execute someone rather than have them live a life sentence. I guess they thought all that goes into executing someone is a fork in an outlet?
I dtill think it would be cheaper...depending on the age of the inmate and if they speeded up the process and not let these guys sit on death row for 5 to 20 years.
Godfather.
It might save money, but it could also result in more innocent people being put to death.
what I find hilarious is that in the previous death penalty thread, so many pro-DPers tried to claim that it was much cheaper to execute someone rather than have them live a life sentence. I guess they thought all that goes into executing someone is a fork in an outlet?
I dtill think it would be cheaper...depending on the age of the inmate and if they speeded up the process and not let these guys sit on death row for 5 to 20 years.
Godfather.
It might save money, but it could also result in more innocent people being put to death.
I talking about people that have been convicted and used all their options up and still waited on death row for 5 to 20 years.
""It is the law in this country that not everyone who commits murder is eligible for the death penalty," Matthewman said. "It's only the worst of the worst."
That's why it is so important that a jury agree on why a person deserves the ultimate punishment.
"The worst that could happen is that we could convict innocent people," said West Palm Beach defense attorney Richard Lubin. "To play fast and loose with the rules makes no sense."
The decision shouldn't spark a pro- or anti-death penalty debate, he said. "The issue is that before we give a person the ultimate penalty, unless you're absolutely certain beyond a reasonable doubt that they deserve it, we shouldn't be doing it."
Further, Florida is an outlier. Alabama is the only other state that doesn't require jurors to agree on the aggravating factors that prompted their death penalty recommendation, said retired 18th Judicial Circuit Judge O.H. "Bill" Eaton, a capital punishment expert. But even Alabama requires a jury to reach a decision by a super majority vote. In Florida, if six of the 12 jurors agree, they may recommend death. A judge uses the recommendation to make the final decision.
"Right now, all we get is a number," said West Palm Beach attorney Gregg Lerman. "There's something wrong with the fact that they don't even have to tell us why they are choosing death.""
NO, its NOT worth it..anywhere!
Sometimes it's worth it. But in certain cases, no. Casey Anthony, as much as I believe she is guilty.....should not be facing the death penalty.
I dtill think it would be cheaper...depending on the age of the inmate and if they speeded up the process and not let these guys sit on death row for 5 to 20 years.
Godfather.
It might save money, but it could also result in more innocent people being put to death.
I talking about people that have been convicted and used all their options up and still waited on death row for 5 to 20 years.
Godfather.
I know.. thats the thing.. its likely all their options werent used up within 5-20 yrs. Thats why the DP is so expensive.. they want to make sure they don't execute innocents, so they give them a bazillion appeals options and lobster dinners with yoo-fuckin-hoo, and carrot cake. Most of them are making appeals up until the day they get murdered. Shorter appeals and less time would result in many more innocents dying.. simple as that.
""It is the law in this country that not everyone who commits murder is eligible for the death penalty," Matthewman said. "It's only the worst of the worst."
That's why it is so important that a jury agree on why a person deserves the ultimate punishment.
"The worst that could happen is that we could convict innocent people," said West Palm Beach defense attorney Richard Lubin. "To play fast and loose with the rules makes no sense."
The decision shouldn't spark a pro- or anti-death penalty debate, he said. "The issue is that before we give a person the ultimate penalty, unless you're absolutely certain beyond a reasonable doubt that they deserve it, we shouldn't be doing it."
Further, Florida is an outlier. Alabama is the only other state that doesn't require jurors to agree on the aggravating factors that prompted their death penalty recommendation, said retired 18th Judicial Circuit Judge O.H. "Bill" Eaton, a capital punishment expert. But even Alabama requires a jury to reach a decision by a super majority vote. In Florida, if six of the 12 jurors agree, they may recommend death. A judge uses the recommendation to make the final decision.
"Right now, all we get is a number," said West Palm Beach attorney Gregg Lerman. "There's something wrong with the fact that they don't even have to tell us why they are choosing death.""
NO, its NOT worth it..anywhere!
Sometimes it's worth it. But in certain cases, no. Casey Anthony, as much as I believe she is guilty.....should not be facing the death penalty.
I agree Casey Anthony shouldnt be up for death penalty, but whats the difference really? She researched "break neck" and "chloroform".. its likely a calculated murder on a child, by the one and only person that child is supposed to trust the most tin the whole world. Its the sickest crime I've seen in awhile. I love how people think they can pick and chose who should die and who shouldnt. :?
Some cases are hands down. No question about it. Caught in the act, confessions, found with remains, etc.. Caseys case it is 99.9%. As much as i'd like to see her fry.....it's not enough. And in turn, she'll probably walk from this. They should've gone for the life sentence without parole. JMO
Some cases are hands down. No question about it. Caught in the act, confessions, found with remains, etc.. Caseys case it is 99.9%. As much as i'd like to see her fry.....it's not enough. And in turn, she'll probably walk from this. They should've gone for the life sentence without parole. JMO
to get back on topic for once, this thread is not an debate about whether the death penalty should be imposed and carried out or not.
it is strictly my question as to whether or not you "fiscal conservatives" on here can justify spending that kind of money on something so ineffecient and so filled with flaws.
to me it seems you are fine with paying money to make bombs and kill people, but if people need help, screw them.
help me understand that line of thinking.
is it worth a few million to kill one person?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Some cases are hands down. No question about it. Caught in the act, confessions, found with remains, etc.. Caseys case it is 99.9%. As much as i'd like to see her fry.....it's not enough. And in turn, she'll probably walk from this. They should've gone for the life sentence without parole. JMO
to get back on topic for once, this thread is not an debate about whether the death penalty should be imposed and carried out or not.
it is strictly my question as to whether or not you "fiscal conservatives" on here can justify spending that kind of money on something so ineffecient and so filled with flaws.
to me it seems you are fine with paying money to make bombs and kill people, but if people need help, screw them.
help me understand that line of thinking.
is it worth a few million to kill one person?
as I said earlier, aren't fiscal conservatives supposed to come in here and complain it is from the huffington post and the study was done by a anti death penalty center?
same answer as I gave before, with a slight change...
who are you trying to get at with your statement "to me it seems you are fine with paying money to make bombs and kill people, but if people need help, screw them."
that isn't going to get a real response most of the time and I don't believe you really want to understand that line of thinking...
The whole justice system is inefficient in california, not simply the death penalty...that would be like picking 11th grade out of k-12 and blaming budget problems on it...Punishment for crimes benefits society, and paying for those in an efficient way should be the goal, but because the incompetent CA government cannot run a dmv efficiently doesn't mean a form of punishment should be thrown out with the bath water...there are plenty of arguments against the death penalty, this just isn't a very sound one. Ultimately i believe that punishments for crimes benefits society, i would like to see it run more efficiently sure, but the benefit to society is almost immeasurable because we don't know the harm a death row inmate may have continued to cause without it...
but that isn't saying there isn't a benefit
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Other states have already begun to phase out the death penalty due to budget issues: New Mexico repealed it in 2009, Illinois lawmakers voted to ban it in March of this year, and lawmakers in Maryland and Connecticut are currently considering doing the same. But in California, state law requires a vote by referendum in order to repeal the death penalty.
"We hope that California voters, informed of what the death penalty actually costs them, will cast their informed votes in favor of a system that makes sense," the report concludes.
this is the most obscene reasoning for getting rid of the death penalty ive ever read.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I am VERY fiscally conservative, and VERY much against the death penalty in all cases, but I don't really see the connection.
For me the connection is that conservatives often speak of being fiscally responsible and making "common sense" decisions. Supporting the death penalty exposes the hypocrisy, with it being more expensive and because it doesn't reduce crime, and shows that supporting it is really about vengeance.
I am VERY fiscally conservative, and VERY much against the death penalty in all cases, but I don't really see the connection.
For me the connection is that conservatives often speak of being fiscally responsible and making "common sense" decisions. Supporting the death penalty exposes the hypocrisy, with it being more expensive and because it doesn't reduce crime, and shows that supporting it is really about vengeance.
I noted this earlier, but the root cause of the fiscal issue is the inefficiency of the California court system. Fix that, and billions, instead of millions, will be saved. Money wasted on the appeals of death penalty is just one tiny facet of money being lost in an inefficient system.
I am VERY fiscally conservative, and VERY much against the death penalty in all cases, but I don't really see the connection.
For me the connection is that conservatives often speak of being fiscally responsible and making "common sense" decisions. Supporting the death penalty exposes the hypocrisy, with it being more expensive and because it doesn't reduce crime, and shows that supporting it is really about vengeance.
that was the point i was trying to make in connecting the two.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I am VERY fiscally conservative, and VERY much against the death penalty in all cases, but I don't really see the connection.
For me the connection is that conservatives often speak of being fiscally responsible and making "common sense" decisions. Supporting the death penalty exposes the hypocrisy, with it being more expensive and because it doesn't reduce crime, and shows that supporting it is really about vengeance.
capital punishment costs aren't even close to the costs of the drug war in california.
Get those cases out of the legal system you automatically reduce the cost of housing capital punishment inmates because appeals would get expedited. years would be taken off and cases would be heard.
as far as the deterrent argument finding its way in, doesn't seem like life in prison is a deterrent either, so we should probably just release them into the general public after a time out. Prison is PUNISHMENT FOR A CRIME, it isn't anything but that, it is society's revenge on the people committing crimes...how severe the punishment depends on how severe the crime is. That seems like a prime example of common sense. I realize the arguments against the death penalty are plenty and are persuasive, I for one find it disturbing that and innocent man could die. But a fiscal argument against the death penalty isn't the first thing we should be talking about as far as justice system reform...it seems like that point that myself and jason keep making is falling on deaf ears as I don't see it being addressed at all. So yes, reform should be on the agenda, but instead of doing away with a punishment for a serious crime, why not look for what makes an immediate cost savings impact, as well as make an impact on the cost of housing death penalty inmates...I realize everyone on here wants to consistently call out what they see as hypocrisy, just don't think this fits.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Comments
It might save money, but it could also result in more innocent people being put to death.
I talking about people that have been convicted and used all their options up and still waited on death row for 5 to 20 years.
Godfather.
Sometimes it's worth it. But in certain cases, no. Casey Anthony, as much as I believe she is guilty.....should not be facing the death penalty.
I know.. thats the thing.. its likely all their options werent used up within 5-20 yrs. Thats why the DP is so expensive.. they want to make sure they don't execute innocents, so they give them a bazillion appeals options and lobster dinners with yoo-fuckin-hoo, and carrot cake. Most of them are making appeals up until the day they get murdered. Shorter appeals and less time would result in many more innocents dying.. simple as that.
I agree Casey Anthony shouldnt be up for death penalty, but whats the difference really? She researched "break neck" and "chloroform".. its likely a calculated murder on a child, by the one and only person that child is supposed to trust the most tin the whole world. Its the sickest crime I've seen in awhile. I love how people think they can pick and chose who should die and who shouldnt. :?
it is strictly my question as to whether or not you "fiscal conservatives" on here can justify spending that kind of money on something so ineffecient and so filled with flaws.
to me it seems you are fine with paying money to make bombs and kill people, but if people need help, screw them.
help me understand that line of thinking.
is it worth a few million to kill one person?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
as I said earlier, aren't fiscal conservatives supposed to come in here and complain it is from the huffington post and the study was done by a anti death penalty center?
same answer as I gave before, with a slight change...
who are you trying to get at with your statement "to me it seems you are fine with paying money to make bombs and kill people, but if people need help, screw them."
that isn't going to get a real response most of the time and I don't believe you really want to understand that line of thinking...
The whole justice system is inefficient in california, not simply the death penalty...that would be like picking 11th grade out of k-12 and blaming budget problems on it...Punishment for crimes benefits society, and paying for those in an efficient way should be the goal, but because the incompetent CA government cannot run a dmv efficiently doesn't mean a form of punishment should be thrown out with the bath water...there are plenty of arguments against the death penalty, this just isn't a very sound one. Ultimately i believe that punishments for crimes benefits society, i would like to see it run more efficiently sure, but the benefit to society is almost immeasurable because we don't know the harm a death row inmate may have continued to cause without it...
but that isn't saying there isn't a benefit
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
this is the most obscene reasoning for getting rid of the death penalty ive ever read.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
For me the connection is that conservatives often speak of being fiscally responsible and making "common sense" decisions. Supporting the death penalty exposes the hypocrisy, with it being more expensive and because it doesn't reduce crime, and shows that supporting it is really about vengeance.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_18293309
capital punishment costs aren't even close to the costs of the drug war in california.
Get those cases out of the legal system you automatically reduce the cost of housing capital punishment inmates because appeals would get expedited. years would be taken off and cases would be heard.
as far as the deterrent argument finding its way in, doesn't seem like life in prison is a deterrent either, so we should probably just release them into the general public after a time out. Prison is PUNISHMENT FOR A CRIME, it isn't anything but that, it is society's revenge on the people committing crimes...how severe the punishment depends on how severe the crime is. That seems like a prime example of common sense. I realize the arguments against the death penalty are plenty and are persuasive, I for one find it disturbing that and innocent man could die. But a fiscal argument against the death penalty isn't the first thing we should be talking about as far as justice system reform...it seems like that point that myself and jason keep making is falling on deaf ears as I don't see it being addressed at all. So yes, reform should be on the agenda, but instead of doing away with a punishment for a serious crime, why not look for what makes an immediate cost savings impact, as well as make an impact on the cost of housing death penalty inmates...I realize everyone on here wants to consistently call out what they see as hypocrisy, just don't think this fits.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan