Northern Ireland

24

Comments

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited May 2011
    Mikee J wrote:
    Northern Ireland remains part of the UK because more than 50% of the population do not wish to be part of the Irish Republic.

    You're talking about 50% of the population of Northern Ireland. I'm talking about the population of England.

    Mikee J wrote:
    And many many people in the UK, including England care.

    No they don't. 99% of English couldn't give a toss.
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • Bigda
    Bigda Posts: 469
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Mikee J wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Most people in England couldn't care less about Northern Ireland. If it was handed back to the Irish it would make no difference to 99% of us.

    Clearly, you have no idea....

    No, of course not. I've just lived in this country for over 30 years.

    well, your previous post clearly wasnt an example of most thorough analysis of the case as for the insider. sorry to say.
    _____________________________
    Prague '95 (w/Neil Young), Warsaw '96, Seattle '98, Katowice x2 '00, Berlin '00, Berlin '06, Katowice '07, Copenhagen '07, Belfast '10, Berlin '10, Amsterdam '12, Prague'12, Berlin x2 '12, Vienna '14, Berlin '14..
  • Mikee J
    Mikee J Posts: 1,323
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Mikee J wrote:
    And many many people in the UK, including England care.

    No they don't. 99% of English couldn't give a toss.

    I'm glad you are not representing people who do care... you wouldn't last 5 minutes. To be honest you have only offered generalised statements with no basis so far in this discussion so to me your opinion means nothing.
    "My body's nobody's body but mine"
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Bigda wrote:
    well, your previous post clearly wasnt an example of most thorough analysis of the case as for the insider. sorry to say.

    The insider? I've lived in many different parts of this country over the past 35 years, and I've never met anyone who gives a shit about Northern Ireland. If they handed it back to the Irish today most of the population of England wouldn't be effected one way or the other.
    But go ahead and tell me I'm wrong about that from your more knowledgeable position in Poland.
  • Mikee J
    Mikee J Posts: 1,323
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Bigda wrote:
    well, your previous post clearly wasnt an example of most thorough analysis of the case as for the insider. sorry to say.

    The insider? I've lived in many different parts of this country over the past 35 years, and I've never met anyone who gives a shit about Northern Ireland. If they handed it back to the Irish today most of the population of England wouldn't be effected one way or the other.
    But go ahead and tell me I'm wrong about that from your more knowledgeable position in Poland.

    I say your wrong.. from my knowledgeable position as a person who lived in Northern Ireland during the worst years of the conflict and someone who has a personal interest in it and peaks to English people a lot about it and happens to know many many people who care.I would suggest to you its because you talk to people who generally don't care about much at all.... you certainly come across that way.

    AND, most importantly you cant back up what you say. In a discussion about such a important subject you point is completely null and void as it is nothing but conjecture.
    "My body's nobody's body but mine"
  • Bigda
    Bigda Posts: 469
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Bigda wrote:
    well, your previous post clearly wasnt an example of most thorough analysis of the case as for the insider. sorry to say.

    The insider? I've lived in many different parts of this country over the past 35 years, and I've never met anyone who gives a shit about Northern Ireland. If they handed it back to the Irish today most of the population of England wouldn't be effected one way or the other.
    But go ahead and tell me I'm wrong about that from your more knowledgeable position in Poland.

    well, judging by what your are saying and how much foundation it has in reliable data you are quoting, my " knowledgeable position in Poland" is equally knowledgeable as yours in China, my man. to say the least.
    _____________________________
    Prague '95 (w/Neil Young), Warsaw '96, Seattle '98, Katowice x2 '00, Berlin '00, Berlin '06, Katowice '07, Copenhagen '07, Belfast '10, Berlin '10, Amsterdam '12, Prague'12, Berlin x2 '12, Vienna '14, Berlin '14..
  • hostis
    hostis Posts: 441
    I'm with you Byrnzie. Most English people I know couldnt give a toss no matter what the views are of the people above. And most irish vouldnt care less the Queen is there....
  • foursymbols
    foursymbols Dublin Posts: 528
    Mikee J wrote:
    foursymbolz wrote:
    Jeez, there's peace, lets just leave it at that... :roll:

    Unfortunately this is not the case (I wish it were!). There are currently no big bombs (although two bombs have been diffused today in the republic as the Queen is visiting) there are daily paramilitary related incidents and the Real IRA are active.

    Yes & unfortunately that will never change but dozens of innocent people are not been murdered every week as was the case during the dark years!! From the South & altho we will have to live with dissident groups bent on destroying the Good Friday agreement, majority of people just getting on with their lives...
    'It's a sad and beautiful world' - Mark Linkous
  • Mikee J
    Mikee J Posts: 1,323
    foursymbolz wrote:
    Mikee J wrote:
    foursymbolz wrote:
    Jeez, there's peace, lets just leave it at that... :roll:

    Unfortunately this is not the case (I wish it were!). There are currently no big bombs (although two bombs have been diffused today in the republic as the Queen is visiting) there are daily paramilitary related incidents and the Real IRA are active.

    Yes & unfortunately that will never change but dozens of innocent people are not been murdered every week as was the case during the dark years!! From the South & altho we will have to live with dissident groups bent on destroying the Good Friday agreement, majority of people just getting on with their lives...

    Indeed, and you are right, things are sooo much better. Hopefully one day the people who sill advocate violence will no longer represent anyones feelings. Fingers crossed.
    "My body's nobody's body but mine"
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Mikee J wrote:
    I say your wrong.. from my knowledgeable position as a person who lived in Northern Ireland during the worst years of the conflict and someone who has a personal interest in it and peaks to English people a lot about it and happens to know many many people who care.I would suggest to you its because you talk to people who generally don't care about much at all.... you certainly come across that way.

    AND, most importantly you cant back up what you say. In a discussion about such a important subject you point is completely null and void as it is nothing but conjecture.

    Please show me where you've backed up what you've said?

    You lived in Northern Ireland for a time, and speak to people with a personal interest in the subject? So it looks to me like your opinion is biased.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Bigda wrote:
    well, judging by what your are saying and how much foundation it has in reliable data you are quoting, my " knowledgeable position in Poland" is equally knowledgeable as yours in China, my man. to say the least.

    I'm not in China at the moment, I'm back in England now. Not that that's relevant.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    hostis wrote:
    I'm with you Byrnzie. Most English people I know couldnt give a toss no matter what the views are of the people above. And most irish vouldnt care less the Queen is there....

    Right. And I expect 99% of other English on this Messageboard will agree.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited May 2011
    ....
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • Mikee J
    Mikee J Posts: 1,323
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Mikee J wrote:
    I say your wrong.. from my knowledgeable position as a person who lived in Northern Ireland during the worst years of the conflict and someone who has a personal interest in it and peaks to English people a lot about it and happens to know many many people who care.I would suggest to you its because you talk to people who generally don't care about much at all.... you certainly come across that way.

    AND, most importantly you cant back up what you say. In a discussion about such a important subject you point is completely null and void as it is nothing but conjecture.

    Please show me where you've backed up what you've said?

    You lived in Northern Ireland for a time, and speak to people with a personal interest in the subject? So it looks to me like your opinion is biased.

    Well, initially you answered your own question. And yes you could say my opinion is biased somewhat as is most people who have an interest in a subject. My question to you was to justify sweeping statements suggesting 44.5 million people in England don't care. My experience is that this cannot be true.... it's just not feasible. And you haven't given me anything to suggest otherwise.
    "My body's nobody's body but mine"
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Mikee J wrote:
    Well, initially you answered your own question. And yes you could say my opinion is biased somewhat as is most people who have an interest in a subject. My question to you was to justify sweeping statements suggesting 44.5 million people in England don't care. My experience is that this cannot be true.... it's just not feasible. And you haven't given me anything to suggest otherwise.



    And you haven't given me anything to suggest that anyone other than a handful of people with direct links to Northern Ireland give a shit about the place.

    Why did you live there? Do you have relatives there? Is that why you think the English care about Northern Ireland?
    You may find people in places like Glasgow have an opinion on Northern Ireland, but most English couldn't care less about it.
  • Mikee J
    Mikee J Posts: 1,323
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Mikee J wrote:
    Well, initially you answered your own question. And yes you could say my opinion is biased somewhat as is most people who have an interest in a subject. My question to you was to justify sweeping statements suggesting 44.5 million people in England don't care. My experience is that this cannot be true.... it's just not feasible. And you haven't given me anything to suggest otherwise.



    And you haven't given me anything to suggest that anyone other than a handful of people with direct links to Northern Ireland give a shit about the place.

    Why did you live there? Do you have relatives there? Is that why you think the English care about Northern Ireland?
    You may find people in places like Glasgow have an opinion on Northern Ireland, but most English couldn't care less about it.

    I said that the majority of people in NI want to remain with the UK because of the election results of the last 40 years suggest this is true.

    In further support of this I suggest you look at the very small amount of people who turned up to protest at the Queens visit today.. around 50 I believe were there at one point.

    I lived in NI as the son of a British Army soldier, but this does not in anyway suggest I am biased towards the Union. I believe (as does my father) that the will of the people is strongest, and if the people want to be apart from the UK then they should be allowed. At this point nothing in elections has suggested a referendum should happen as the result would be a waste of time and tax payers money.

    You have stated that "most" and "99%" of the English Population doesn't care, you haven't given ANY justification for that, you just respond asking me for mine. I think you have no idea what the population of England feel, you certainly do not speak for the vast majority of people I know. Most of whom have no connection to the conflict at all.

    Up to this point you have offered no intelligent argument, only generalised assumptions with no basis. For that reason...... I'm out.
    "My body's nobody's body but mine"
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Mikee J wrote:
    I said that the majority of people in NI want to remain with the UK because of the election results of the last 40 years suggest this is true.

    In further support of this I suggest you look at the very small amount of people who turned up to protest at the Queens visit today.. around 50 I believe were there at one point.

    I didn't say the majority of the population of Northern Ireland couldn't care less. I said the majority of people in England couldn't care less.
    Do you even know the difference between England and Northern Ireland?
    And those people protesting at the Queens visit today were from the Irish Republic. The Queen visited Dublin today. Dublin is in the Republic of Ireland. It's not in Northern Ireland, and it's not in England. Would you like me to post a map so you can see what I'm talking about?
    I said the majority of English couldn't give a toss about Northern Ireland and your response is to tell me how Protestants in Northern Ireland do give a toss. Not quite a credible, or even slightly relevant, response on your part.
    Mikee J wrote:
    I think you have no idea what the population of England feel

    I think you don't know what your talking about.
  • Lay down your arms
    Lay down your arms Posts: 39
    Im going to try and give my opinion and then sidestep all the fighting in this thread. a) Im american, so I am not as close to the topic as many in this thread semm to be. However, that doesnt mean I am uninformed (but I am no expert either).

    Both sides of the argument seem to have points. I wouldnt trust the data that suggests more than 50% of the voters in NI want to remain part of the UK and someone touched oupon why. Becasue many of those people are transplants, only in NI because their company can operate at a lower cost in NI. This skews that data in my opinion. These people would be British residents regardless... all their vote does is stack the deck.

    If 99% of brits could care less about having NI and it is of no consequence to the British economy (from the way you describe it, NI seems to be a bane on whichever economy it is tied to) then what is the porblem... give them their country back.

    If NI became part of RI I would agree that is would put the RI economy in deeper water, but that is not a viable excuse in my opinion to delay the transfer.

    IMO, Britian is graping to its last straw of imperialism, I cant see an actual viable reason they still maintain control of NI.
  • Mariamaniatis
    Mariamaniatis Posts: 90
    edited May 2011
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Most people in England couldn't care less about Northern Ireland. If it was handed back to the Irish it would make no difference to 99% of us.

    Sorry to disapoint you 'Last Exodus', aka 'The Face', aka 'Mariamaniatis', as I know this thread was created purely for my benefit.

    You'll have to try harder.

    I thought my aka was "genius".
    Post edited by Mariamaniatis on
  • Mariamaniatis
    Mariamaniatis Posts: 90
    Byrnzie did correctly identify my point but Im afraid it was missed by the general populus here. I was making somewhat of a snide point that before pointing fingers at the United States for its blunders in Iraq, or in Israel, it would be worthwhile to look at the fact that there are places in the World right now that still sit under the vestiges on 19th Century European Colonialism. Ireland being one of those places. European Colonialism really underlies about 90% of today's existing political problems, including the Israel/Palestine problem.

    Im staying away from four letter words and trying to keep it civil this time Byrnzie. My views on the West Bank have moved more towards yours in the last few years actually.

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