Mr Abraham, so you wouldn't be pissed off if this happened where you live?
Migrants should respect the laws and ways of life of the country they choose to live in.
My parents came to Australia 40 years ago along with many others from Europe, they did not complain and make the government change things for them. Why can't these people do the same. It makes me upset :x
People should respect the laws of the land on which they live, as long as the laws are not unjust. But if the law/rules are unjust, I say, fight against those laws..Tirelessly.
Mr Abraham, so you wouldn't be pissed off if this happened where you live?
Migrants should respect the laws and ways of life of the country they choose to live in.
My parents came to Australia 40 years ago along with many others from Europe, they did not complain and make the government change things for them. Why can't these people do the same. It makes me upset :x
People should respect the laws of the land on which they live, as long as the laws are not unjust. But if the law/rules are unjust, I say, fight against those laws..Tirelessly.
Well I see this as unjust, banning things we used to be able to purchase.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
This article also states that they want state funding for expanding islamic schools. For once, I agree with you. No tax payer's money should be used to fund ANY non-inclusive, religious school, whether it be catholic (yep.. tax payer's money is spent on catholic schools), islamic, jewish, etc.
A point for which I would appreciate clarification... when you say a KFC isn't allowed to sell pork based products, does that mean that it is illegal, ie there is a law against this? What would legally happen if they did? Or is it a business decision from that particular KFC deciding that, being in a majority muslim community, it would make better business sense to attract their custom by removing bacon from their menu. More customers, more profit? Most fast food outlets will adjust menu following regional/local tastes. Taking KFC as an example a number of 'halal' restaurants are being trialed in the UK as they have seen a gap in the market for these. The result of the trial will decide whether it is worth their while continuing with those in muslim communities or not.
You also say that 'everything is Halal' at your supermarket. Again, is this a business decision due to the area this supermarket is? Would it be illegal (against the law) for a supermarket to open and sell non-halal goods across the road from the Halal one? Again, what would legally happen if they did? Or would a potential developer think 'hmmm.... mainly muslims who buy Halal.... I won't get many customers and I will lose money.'?
One needs to bear in mind that a business is there to make profits and will offer goods that will attract their potential customers.
I'm not picking a fight or anything, just trying to understand what the legalities are.
You seem to be very adept at finding these articles!
" Sharia used to end hundreds of marriages
SHARIA is already being practised in western Sydney, with hundreds of religious divorces granted by imams."
Note the word 'religious' divorces (being granted by a religious figure). Do you also have issues with jewish religious divorces? Because these are also granted under religious law by the Rabbis. Even if a divorce is granted under the civil laws of the country, if the proper religious procedures have not been followed, the couple are not divorced under jewish law (ie religious).
Do you have the same problem with halachah as you do with sharia?
Do you see the similarities? Should a 'hate/scare mongering' article be written about this?
thoughts_arrive, why not move to an area where bacon is sold? they have just as much right to not sell pork products as you do to shop somewhere else...you are a consumer. you vote with your money.
My friend lives in that area not me, re-read my post
My area if fine, we have a lot of Vietnamese here, no chance of Halal and no pork being enforced in my area thank heavens.
They have rights to not sell pork? What country do they live in?
They migrated here so they should accept our way of life, how do you think the people that have been living in these areas for longer than these migrants feel? They were born here and now all of a sudden because some group complains it fucks things up for them. Imagine that, oh I want to host a BBQ, let me go to the butcher around the corner from my home for some pork cutlets, oh no they cannot sell it, shit that means I have to drive a bit to the next area which is about 3 suburbs away.
As a business owner, he or she has the right not to sell a certain kind of product, no?
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
You seem to be very adept at finding these articles!
" Sharia used to end hundreds of marriages
SHARIA is already being practised in western Sydney, with hundreds of religious divorces granted by imams."
Note the word 'religious' divorces (being granted by a religious figure). Do you also have issues with jewish religious divorces? Because these are also granted under religious law by the Rabbis. Even if a divorce is granted under the civil laws of the country, if the proper religious procedures have not been followed, the couple are not divorced under jewish law (ie religious).
Do you see the similarities? Should a 'hate/scare mongering' article be written about this?
You forgot racist and bigoted: roll:
As long as there rules affect them only. I would not care. However, if it affects how I live or what I eat (and someone else’s divorce will not) I would have a problem with it. Everyone needs to remember, it is a fact that SOME Muslims ( alot) want to rule the world under Shari Law.
.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
As long as there rules affect them only. I would not care. However, if it affects how I live or what I eat (and someone else’s divorce will not) I would have a problem with it. Everyone needs to remember, it is a fact that SOME Muslims ( alot) want to rule the world under Shari Law.
.
But it doesn't affect what you eat... a local shop/franchise decides not to sell a product because it doesn't make good business sense, you get your product elsewhere - whatever that product may be. I'm sure many of us have found that our local supermarket no longer stocks a certain product we may like because it wasn't selling, etc. Example, I eat veal (yeah.... I know....), as many others, my local butcher doesn't have it. If I want some, I need to go to a butcher a few miles away who caters for a community that does eat veal. No difference.
Affects how you live? Sharia law? How so as Sharia is only applicable to muslims.
Could you please dig up a link of the statutes or ordinances of these places that outlaw pork. I'm in the U.S. and don't even now where to begin looking. I'm amazed by all of this.
Cheers!
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
My friend lives in that area not me, re-read my post
My area if fine, we have a lot of Vietnamese here, no chance of Halal and no pork being enforced in my area thank heavens.
They have rights to not sell pork? What country do they live in?
They migrated here so they should accept our way of life, how do you think the people that have been living in these areas for longer than these migrants feel? They were born here and now all of a sudden because some group complains it fucks things up for them. Imagine that, oh I want to host a BBQ, let me go to the butcher around the corner from my home for some pork cutlets, oh no they cannot sell it, shit that means I have to drive a bit to the next area which is about 3 suburbs away.
just think how the aborigines feel.
Funny how that point was never addressed. I can only assume, based on his argument, that he would have no qualms about living in a traditional Aborigine setting out in the bush where he'd be eating beetles... after all, they were born in Australia long before he was
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
Catefrances, pork selling is not allowed in that suburb and a few suburbs close to it so KFC cannot sell it.
I don't buy take away often, very rarely because it is rubbish for the body.
ill be coming down to melbourne shortly.. ill be sure to check those suburbs out.
haha be safe, broady is rough.
considering where i grew up and where i live now, not really a problem. besides rough is relative and highly subjective.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Could you please dig up a link of the statutes or ordinances of these places that outlaw pork. I'm in the U.S. and don't even now where to begin looking. I'm amazed by all of this.
Cheers!
This came into effect a few years ago and I am struggling to find news articles through my Google search but here is what I could find:
Could you please dig up a link of the statutes or ordinances of these places that outlaw pork. I'm in the U.S. and don't even now where to begin looking. I'm amazed by all of this.
Cheers!
This came into effect a few years ago and I am struggling to find news articles through my Google search but here is what I could find:
Thank you very much for the links. I guess what I'm looking for though are links to the actual statutes that say "this suburb, locale, etc. must sell only halal meat, etc." I'll try to do some digging myself, as well.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
This article also states that they want state funding for expanding islamic schools. For once, I agree with you. No tax payer's money should be used to fund ANY non-inclusive, religious school, whether it be catholic (yep.. tax payer's money is spent on catholic schools), islamic, jewish, etc.
A point for which I would appreciate clarification... when you say a KFC isn't allowed to sell pork based products, does that mean that it is illegal, ie there is a law against this? What would legally happen if they did? Or is it a business decision from that particular KFC deciding that, being in a majority muslim community, it would make better business sense to attract their custom by removing bacon from their menu. More customers, more profit? Most fast food outlets will adjust menu following regional/local tastes. Taking KFC as an example a number of 'halal' restaurants are being trialed in the UK as they have seen a gap in the market for these. The result of the trial will decide whether it is worth their while continuing with those in muslim communities or not.
You also say that 'everything is Halal' at your supermarket. Again, is this a business decision due to the area this supermarket is? Would it be illegal (against the law) for a supermarket to open and sell non-halal goods across the road from the Halal one? Again, what would legally happen if they did? Or would a potential developer think 'hmmm.... mainly muslims who buy Halal.... I won't get many customers and I will lose money.'?
One needs to bear in mind that a business is there to make profits and will offer goods that will attract their potential customers.
I'm not picking a fight or anything, just trying to understand what the legalities are.
Not sure if it is law (illegal), I think KFC just choose not to serve it so to avoid offending the muslims.
I also noticed some workers there are muslim so that could play a part.
As for other stores in the area (other fast food, restaurants, butchers, delis etc), I think it is council law, not sure. I just know pork products have been removed from shops, not sure if they have been removed from all the shops as I do not live there.
The two councils I refer to are City of Hume (northern suburbs) and City of Dandenong (south eastern suburbs), these areas have a high muslim population.
As for the Halal foods in supermarkets, that applies everywhere here. A lot of the mass produced products such as dairy foods have the Halal logo on it.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
You seem to be very adept at finding these articles!
" Sharia used to end hundreds of marriages
SHARIA is already being practised in western Sydney, with hundreds of religious divorces granted by imams."
Note the word 'religious' divorces (being granted by a religious figure). Do you also have issues with jewish religious divorces? Because these are also granted under religious law by the Rabbis. Even if a divorce is granted under the civil laws of the country, if the proper religious procedures have not been followed, the couple are not divorced under jewish law (ie religious).
Do you have the same problem with halachah as you do with sharia?
Do you see the similarities? Should a 'hate/scare mongering' article be written about this?
I don't have any issue with any divorces with any religion, how each religion handles divorces is up to them and whoever follows that religion needs to accept that.
Divorces are one thing, other aspects of Sharia are another thing.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
thoughts_arrive, why not move to an area where bacon is sold? they have just as much right to not sell pork products as you do to shop somewhere else...you are a consumer. you vote with your money.
My friend lives in that area not me, re-read my post
My area if fine, we have a lot of Vietnamese here, no chance of Halal and no pork being enforced in my area thank heavens.
They have rights to not sell pork? What country do they live in?
They migrated here so they should accept our way of life, how do you think the people that have been living in these areas for longer than these migrants feel? They were born here and now all of a sudden because some group complains it fucks things up for them. Imagine that, oh I want to host a BBQ, let me go to the butcher around the corner from my home for some pork cutlets, oh no they cannot sell it, shit that means I have to drive a bit to the next area which is about 3 suburbs away.
As a business owner, he or she has the right not to sell a certain kind of product, no?
Yes. But if a council bans it then the business owner would lose money.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
My friend lives in that area not me, re-read my post
My area if fine, we have a lot of Vietnamese here, no chance of Halal and no pork being enforced in my area thank heavens.
They have rights to not sell pork? What country do they live in?
They migrated here so they should accept our way of life, how do you think the people that have been living in these areas for longer than these migrants feel? They were born here and now all of a sudden because some group complains it fucks things up for them. Imagine that, oh I want to host a BBQ, let me go to the butcher around the corner from my home for some pork cutlets, oh no they cannot sell it, shit that means I have to drive a bit to the next area which is about 3 suburbs away.
just think how the aborigines feel.
Funny how that point was never addressed. I can only assume, based on his argument, that he would have no qualms about living in a traditional Aborigine setting out in the bush where he'd be eating beetles... after all, they were born in Australia long before he was
If that was how it was to be, I would have not known otherwise so I would grow up eating what they eat and living how they eat without an issue.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Not sure if it is law (illegal), I think KFC just choose not to serve it so to avoid offending the muslims.
I also noticed some workers there are muslim so that could play a part.
As for other stores in the area (other fast food, restaurants, butchers, delis etc), I think it is council law, not sure. I just know pork products have been removed from shops, not sure if they have been removed from all the shops as I do not live there.
The two councils I refer to are City of Hume (northern suburbs) and City of Dandenong (south eastern suburbs), these areas have a high muslim population.
As for the Halal foods in supermarkets, that applies everywhere here. A lot of the mass produced products such as dairy foods have the Halal logo on it.
OMG! you said in previous posts pork products were BANNED. banned implies (il)legalities are in play. Now youre saying you think KFC choose??? you dont know anything for sure do you? as you said all you know is what you heard/read in the media and what youve experienced from ONE KFC outlet. hardly undeniable proof that whole council areas are fully halal with no pork products available for consumption let alone purchase.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I am not sure about KFC in Fawkner, call them and ask, all I know is that bacon is not sold in that restaurant.
As for other stores I am sure pork is banned.
Call the Hume and Dandenong councils and ask them.
Why would the media lie?
Post edited by Thoughts_Arrive on
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
If you think I am lying then call KFC Fawkner, The Hume council and the Dandenong council.
I remember a while ago this was on the news on TV (about these councils removing pork products at shops).
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
KFC, the council, etc... pork isn't prohibited. These are business decisions not to serve certain foods. The council does not want ham served at THEIR functions in order to attract the largest part of the community they can - they are not 'banning' pork altogether.
I am not trying to scare anyone.
I worked with a muslim woman and I know a few through friends of friends.
Redrock, spoken to the council?
Don't be silly... of course not. But... I read the article you posted a link to regarding this 'prohibited' food. As far as I read it,it says 'council functions' (not 'outlawing' pork products throughout the whole council area).
I also read that they are trying to be inclusive and that the the chief executive wishes to cater for 'everyone in attendance' and that he took the decision to remove ONE type of sandwich off the menu from HIS functions. I'm sure his functions have a wide variety of sandwiches/foods from which to choose and that not having a ham sandwich for a few hours really isn't troublesome.
This is really making a mountain out of a molehill...
Comments
People should respect the laws of the land on which they live, as long as the laws are not unjust. But if the law/rules are unjust, I say, fight against those laws..Tirelessly.
Well I see this as unjust, banning things we used to be able to purchase.
hypocrisy
by whom?
please elaborate...
http://www.news.com.au/national/sharia- ... 6057896078
:?
This article also states that they want state funding for expanding islamic schools. For once, I agree with you. No tax payer's money should be used to fund ANY non-inclusive, religious school, whether it be catholic (yep.. tax payer's money is spent on catholic schools), islamic, jewish, etc.
A point for which I would appreciate clarification... when you say a KFC isn't allowed to sell pork based products, does that mean that it is illegal, ie there is a law against this? What would legally happen if they did? Or is it a business decision from that particular KFC deciding that, being in a majority muslim community, it would make better business sense to attract their custom by removing bacon from their menu. More customers, more profit? Most fast food outlets will adjust menu following regional/local tastes. Taking KFC as an example a number of 'halal' restaurants are being trialed in the UK as they have seen a gap in the market for these. The result of the trial will decide whether it is worth their while continuing with those in muslim communities or not.
You also say that 'everything is Halal' at your supermarket. Again, is this a business decision due to the area this supermarket is? Would it be illegal (against the law) for a supermarket to open and sell non-halal goods across the road from the Halal one? Again, what would legally happen if they did? Or would a potential developer think 'hmmm.... mainly muslims who buy Halal.... I won't get many customers and I will lose money.'?
One needs to bear in mind that a business is there to make profits and will offer goods that will attract their potential customers.
I'm not picking a fight or anything, just trying to understand what the legalities are.
You seem to be very adept at finding these articles!
" Sharia used to end hundreds of marriages
SHARIA is already being practised in western Sydney, with hundreds of religious divorces granted by imams."
Note the word 'religious' divorces (being granted by a religious figure). Do you also have issues with jewish religious divorces? Because these are also granted under religious law by the Rabbis. Even if a divorce is granted under the civil laws of the country, if the proper religious procedures have not been followed, the couple are not divorced under jewish law (ie religious).
Do you have the same problem with halachah as you do with sharia?
Do you see the similarities? Should a 'hate/scare mongering' article be written about this?
As long as there rules affect them only. I would not care. However, if it affects how I live or what I eat (and someone else’s divorce will not) I would have a problem with it. Everyone needs to remember, it is a fact that SOME Muslims ( alot) want to rule the world under Shari Law.
.
But it doesn't affect what you eat... a local shop/franchise decides not to sell a product because it doesn't make good business sense, you get your product elsewhere - whatever that product may be. I'm sure many of us have found that our local supermarket no longer stocks a certain product we may like because it wasn't selling, etc. Example, I eat veal (yeah.... I know....), as many others, my local butcher doesn't have it. If I want some, I need to go to a butcher a few miles away who caters for a community that does eat veal. No difference.
Affects how you live? Sharia law? How so as Sharia is only applicable to muslims.
Could you please dig up a link of the statutes or ordinances of these places that outlaw pork. I'm in the U.S. and don't even now where to begin looking. I'm amazed by all of this.
Cheers!
"With our thoughts we make the world"
Funny how that point was never addressed. I can only assume, based on his argument, that he would have no qualms about living in a traditional Aborigine setting out in the bush where he'd be eating beetles... after all, they were born in Australia long before he was
considering where i grew up and where i live now, not really a problem. besides rough is relative and highly subjective.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
This came into effect a few years ago and I am struggling to find news articles through my Google search but here is what I could find:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2003 ... 862032.htm
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/m ... sub249.pdf (page 2 and onwards)
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69575
There were links on forums to news articles that no longer exist, I tried clicking on them but they don't bring up the articles.
If I find more I will post them up.
Kind of off topic but...
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/schoolboy ... 5797121649
Thank you very much for the links. I guess what I'm looking for though are links to the actual statutes that say "this suburb, locale, etc. must sell only halal meat, etc." I'll try to do some digging myself, as well.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
I don't live in these areas btw.
What I posted here is based on a) my experience at that KFC b) what I heard/read in media
Not sure if it is law (illegal), I think KFC just choose not to serve it so to avoid offending the muslims.
I also noticed some workers there are muslim so that could play a part.
As for other stores in the area (other fast food, restaurants, butchers, delis etc), I think it is council law, not sure. I just know pork products have been removed from shops, not sure if they have been removed from all the shops as I do not live there.
The two councils I refer to are City of Hume (northern suburbs) and City of Dandenong (south eastern suburbs), these areas have a high muslim population.
As for the Halal foods in supermarkets, that applies everywhere here. A lot of the mass produced products such as dairy foods have the Halal logo on it.
I don't have any issue with any divorces with any religion, how each religion handles divorces is up to them and whoever follows that religion needs to accept that.
Divorces are one thing, other aspects of Sharia are another thing.
Yes. But if a council bans it then the business owner would lose money.
If that was how it was to be, I would have not known otherwise so I would grow up eating what they eat and living how they eat without an issue.
OMG! you said in previous posts pork products were BANNED. banned implies (il)legalities are in play. Now youre saying you think KFC choose??? you dont know anything for sure do you? as you said all you know is what you heard/read in the media and what youve experienced from ONE KFC outlet. hardly undeniable proof that whole council areas are fully halal with no pork products available for consumption let alone purchase.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
As for other stores I am sure pork is banned.
Call the Hume and Dandenong councils and ask them.
Why would the media lie?
http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/arc ... 24832.html
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... gle.com.au
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I remember a while ago this was on the news on TV (about these councils removing pork products at shops).
Scaremongering.....
I worked with a muslim woman and I know a few through friends of friends.
Redrock, spoken to the council?
Don't be silly... of course not. But... I read the article you posted a link to regarding this 'prohibited' food. As far as I read it,it says 'council functions' (not 'outlawing' pork products throughout the whole council area).
I also read that they are trying to be inclusive and that the the chief executive wishes to cater for 'everyone in attendance' and that he took the decision to remove ONE type of sandwich off the menu from HIS functions. I'm sure his functions have a wide variety of sandwiches/foods from which to choose and that not having a ham sandwich for a few hours really isn't troublesome.
This is really making a mountain out of a molehill...
Exactly what I said... business decision.