Responsibility of Recipients

Go Beavers

Blockhead wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

I can't help but think that people who are pushing requirements (performance tests, home visits, drug tests) have a desire to shame/humiliate welfare recipients in the hopes that this humiliation will somehow help things.

maybe it is a way to validate themselves and reinforce their beliefs that they are better and more noble than everyone else.

being able to afford things makes you no more or less human than anyone else...

that should ALWAYS be kept in mind when the haves are bitching about the have nots.

As long as we need money people shouldn't be equal. As it largely amounts to theft from those who have put some sort of effort in for their money.
Our lower class does not invest in themselves, whether their education or their earned money. The majority of their efforts are concentrated into cheap and meaningless goods and entertainment that are a path to mediocrity.

By posting this you validate my point about shaming them.

Could you please pause before you make sweeping generalizations? It's a common theme in your posts.

fife

Blockhead wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

I can't help but think that people who are pushing requirements (performance tests, home visits, drug tests) have a desire to shame/humiliate welfare recipients in the hopes that this humiliation will somehow help things.

maybe it is a way to validate themselves and reinforce their beliefs that they are better and more noble than everyone else.

being able to afford things makes you no more or less human than anyone else...

that should ALWAYS be kept in mind when the haves are bitching about the have nots.

As long as we need money people shouldn't be equal. As it largely amounts to theft from those who have put some sort of effort in for their money.
Our lower class does not invest in themselves, whether their education or their earned money. The majority of their efforts are concentrated into cheap and meaningless goods and entertainment that are a path to mediocrity.

this is a load of shit. how many people on welfare have you met? I know many people who live on social assistance who are trying harder to get out. most of those people are new comers to a country and can't find jobs due to issues around not having an "western education" many of those people came here and found jobs that are very low paying jobs which were lost due to other factors.

secondly, how about those peopel who had worked most of their lives and did in fact put a shit load of money into the system, should they not be able to get that money too?

thirdly, what do you mean when you say that "as long as we need money people should not be equal"? what exactly does that mean?

finally, i believe that people on social assistance should follow the rules laid out to them when they receive their money. there is no real answer to these questions. do i think that people should have drug tests to get welfare, no. do i believe that people should volunteer at some non-profits, yes.

pandora

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

pandora wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

maybe it is a way to validate themselves and reinforce their beliefs that they are better and more noble than everyone else.

being able to afford things makes you no more or less human than anyone else...

that should ALWAYS be kept in mind when the haves are bitching about the have nots.

I think some haves should take off their rose colored glasses

Because someone needs aid does not make them less,
to imply that anyone feels that way is insulting....

but when someone cheats, steals, and lies it does make them less.

We need restrictions and criteria in place to stop this from happening.

To deny it is happening is to have your head in the sand

we have been through this time and again in other threads. yes there is abuse of the system, but it is nowhere near the the degree that some of the posters on here say it is.

pandora are you advocating getting rid of aid for everyone because a single digit percent of those people are abusing it?

whoa nellie...
where did you get that from what I said?

Life is never that black and white.

I did not even imply no aid for everyone because of some rotten apples... :?

now I suggest you take the time and read my posts

any abuse is too much abuse and it is just growing until we put the proper watchdog restrictions on those taking advantage.
Our country can not afford waste any longer.

gimmesometruth27

Blockhead wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

pandora wrote:

I think some haves should take off their rose colored glasses

Because someone needs aid does not make them less,
to imply that anyone feels that way is insulting....

but when someone cheats, steals, and lies it does make them less.

We need restrictions and criteria in place to stop this from happening.

To deny it is happening is to have your head in the sand

we have been through this time and again in other threads. yes there is abuse of the system, but it is nowhere near the the degree that some of the posters on here say it is.

pandora are you advocating getting rid of aid for everyone because a single digit percent of those people are abusing it?

And you know this is single digit how? Just the act of them not activly looking for jobs everyday is abuse of the system. Do you think they put in 40 hours a week looking for jobs?

for numbers i searched the threads where accurate numbers were presented. if you don't believe me then you can do what i did and search them yourself....

by the way it is not possible to spend 40 hours a week actively searching for jobs.

gimmesometruth27

pandora wrote:

whoa nellie...
where did you get that from what I said?

Life is never that black and white.

I did not even imply no aid for everyone because of some rotten apples... :?

now I suggest you take the time and read my posts

any abuse is too much abuse and it is just growing until we put the proper watchdog restrictions on those taking advantage.
Our country can not afford waste any longer.

not just you, but others have been stating similar and have posted SWEEPING generalizations about all people on public assistance. and all of those generalizations have been belittling.

there is no way to manage and prevent ALL waste unless we do what those on the right despise, institute a sweeping government organization to scope out what all recipients are doing with that assistance, which would create a HUGE new part of the government. and that would most likely COST the government more money than is actually being wasted.

EdsonNascimento

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

not just you, but others have been stating similar and have posted SWEEPING generalizations about all people on public assistance. and all of those generalizations have been belittling.

there is no way to manage and prevent ALL waste unless we do what those on the right despise, institute a sweeping government organization to scope out what all recipients are doing with that assistance, which would create a HUGE new part of the government. and that would most likely COST the government more money than is actually being wasted.

I do agree that some folks should stop interpreting other people's posts to me EVERY and ALL. Clearly when folks are talking about issues and example, they are just that - examples and not meant to represent EVERYBODY in that situation. So, you are right. Folks should stop doing that.

But, some things don't require a huge new beauracracy. Monitoring what people purchase is already in place. ADP and other payroll systems that provide Health Flexible Spending Account Debit cards already do that function for items that are allowed under that part of the tax code. I can't imagine it would be that difficult to extend that to other items that have bar codes. It would makes selling those cards less valuable because, anyone buying it would still only be able to use it for fruits, vegetables, meats and not soda, ice cream, beer and cigarettes. The technology is already in place. It just needs to be tweaked.

Of course, I do agree that the gov't will find a way to make a huge beauracracy to monitor something that isn't necessary. But, that's for another thread entirely.

Blockhead

Go Beavers wrote:

By posting this you validate my point about shaming them.

Could you please pause before you make sweeping generalizations? It's a common theme in your posts.

Shaming them? How, because I point out that we aren't equal... So are you saying because I work and buy a house for $200,000 that any person on welfare should be given a $200,000 house so that we are all equal and they don't feel embarrassed...
How is it a generalization to say that the poor do not invest themselves in education? DO you teach at a inner-city/public school? My wife teaches 6th graders who can't even read. How are their graduation rates? Just because I am not PC about the poor does not make my claims any less true. Do you spend 8 hours a day with these people? My wife used to be just like majority of posters on this board, She never agreed with me, called me the same names you all do. I wish she could/would post some of her stories on here, Its funny that people who never interact with the poor/welfare always excuse their decisions in life and generalize them all as having bad luck. Its hard to feel sorry of these people who can't even fucking bath /cloth their kids. Kids in her classes wear the same clothes for a week. My wife sometimes gives them sancks after school and countless kids have said that this is as much as there going to eat all weekend. But your right all the people here that have NEVER worked with them know all about thier bad breaks and tough work schedules...
Man

Blockhead

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Blockhead wrote:

And you know this is single digit how? Just the act of them not activly looking for jobs everyday is abuse of the system. Do you think they put in 40 hours a week looking for jobs?

for numbers i searched the threads where accurate numbers were presented. if you don't believe me then you can do what i did and search them yourself....

by the way it is not possible to spend 40 hours a week actively searching for jobs.

And you know this how. People that are unskilled have thousands of possibilities for jobs. Going to the library, using the internet/newspapers and looking at posted applications, calling, visiting, interviewing. If they actually spent 40 hours a week doing that I bet they would have a job in a month.

Blockhead

EdsonNascimento wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

not just you, but others have been stating similar and have posted SWEEPING generalizations about all people on public assistance. and all of those generalizations have been belittling.

there is no way to manage and prevent ALL waste unless we do what those on the right despise, institute a sweeping government organization to scope out what all recipients are doing with that assistance, which would create a HUGE new part of the government. and that would most likely COST the government more money than is actually being wasted.

I do agree that some folks should stop interpreting other people's posts to me EVERY and ALL. Clearly when folks are talking about issues and example, they are just that - examples and not meant to represent EVERYBODY in that situation. So, you are right. Folks should stop doing that.

But, some things don't require a huge new beauracracy. Monitoring what people purchase is already in place. ADP and other payroll systems that provide Health Flexible Spending Account Debit cards already do that function for items that are allowed under that part of the tax code. I can't imagine it would be that difficult to extend that to other items that have bar codes. It would makes selling those cards less valuable because, anyone buying it would still only be able to use it for fruits, vegetables, meats and not soda, ice cream, beer and cigarettes. The technology is already in place. It just needs to be tweaked.

Of course, I do agree that the gov't will find a way to make a huge beauracracy to monitor something that isn't necessary. But, that's for another thread entirely.

How about just vouchers for everything. That way you know where the money goes and each person has to present a photo ID when purchasing, that will erase selling of vouchers. I don't see how that could cost any money. And that way you know the baby is getting formula/diapers, they are getting the proper foods (not alchol/icre-cream) and they can use whatever money they make at their job to buy whatever they want. Seems pretty simple to me. But oh no, we can't put these kinds of regulations on what people buy with tax money...

fife

Blockhead wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

By posting this you validate my point about shaming them.

Could you please pause before you make sweeping generalizations? It's a common theme in your posts.

Shaming them? How, because I point out that we aren't equal... So are you saying because I work and buy a house for $200,000 that any person on welfare should be given a $200,000 house so that we are all equal and they don't feel embarrassed...
How is it a generalization to say that the poor do not invest themselves in education? DO you teach at a inner-city/public school? My wife teaches 6th graders who can't even read. How are their graduation rates? Just because I am not PC about the poor does not make my claims any less true. Do you spend 8 hours a day with these people? My wife used to be just like majority of posters on this board, She never agreed with me, called me the same names you all do. I wish she could/would post some of her stories on here, Its funny that people who never interact with the poor/welfare always excuse their decisions in life and generalize them all as having bad luck. Its hard to feel sorry of these people who can't even fucking bath /cloth their kids. Kids in her classes wear the same clothes for a week. My wife sometimes gives them sancks after school and countless kids have said that this is as much as there going to eat all weekend. But your right all the people here that have NEVER worked with them know all about thier bad breaks and tough work schedules...
Man

you still have not answered the question about how many people on social assistance YOU have met. since your talking like you have met many.

Blockhead

fife wrote:

Blockhead wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

By posting this you validate my point about shaming them.

Could you please pause before you make sweeping generalizations? It's a common theme in your posts.

Shaming them? How, because I point out that we aren't equal... So are you saying because I work and buy a house for $200,000 that any person on welfare should be given a $200,000 house so that we are all equal and they don't feel embarrassed...
How is it a generalization to say that the poor do not invest themselves in education? DO you teach at a inner-city/public school? My wife teaches 6th graders who can't even read. How are their graduation rates? Just because I am not PC about the poor does not make my claims any less true. Do you spend 8 hours a day with these people? My wife used to be just like majority of posters on this board, She never agreed with me, called me the same names you all do. I wish she could/would post some of her stories on here, Its funny that people who never interact with the poor/welfare always excuse their decisions in life and generalize them all as having bad luck. Its hard to feel sorry of these people who can't even fucking bath /cloth their kids. Kids in her classes wear the same clothes for a week. My wife sometimes gives them sancks after school and countless kids have said that this is as much as there going to eat all weekend. But your right all the people here that have NEVER worked with them know all about thier bad breaks and tough work schedules...
Man

you still have not answered the question about how many people on social assistance YOU have met. since your talking like you have met many.

I don't know the ammount that I have meet but I have been going for several years now to house visits (her students) with my wife, since the area is extremely bad. That should give you a good Idea of what I have personally seen. I wish I could start a running thread on my wifes stories alone.

pandora

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

pandora wrote:

whoa nellie...
where did you get that from what I said?

Life is never that black and white.

I did not even imply no aid for everyone because of some rotten apples... :?

now I suggest you take the time and read my posts

any abuse is too much abuse and it is just growing until we put the proper watchdog restrictions on those taking advantage.
Our country can not afford waste any longer.

not just you, but others have been stating similar and have posted SWEEPING generalizations about all people on public assistance. and all of those generalizations have been belittling.

there is no way to manage and prevent ALL waste unless we do what those on the right despise, institute a sweeping government organization to scope out what all recipients are doing with that assistance, which would create a HUGE new part of the government. and that would most likely COST the government more money than is actually being wasted.

"not just me" .... huh? I made no generalizations of all ... just to make that clear..
I have said some are abusing.

It is you that is generalizing by saying that about me


We can start by not allowing people to apply for aid on line....this must be face to face.

We can require drug testing for all people who receive aid. This is an absolute must.

We can require community service of the able bodied minimum 30 hrs a week.

We can put restrictions on where and how the welfare debit cards can be used so they can not be sold for cash
or used in casinos :wtf: and liquor stores.

We can require food stamps to only be available to those who need them.
You'd be surprised who has them due to the ease of cheating and fraud.

We can crack down on the illegals that are here by not allowing them work or aid.
And put the people on aid back to work in the hotels, restaurants, etc that are now being filled by illegals.
And it's often said those are the jobs no one wants or will do ...
well that just goes to show what a free ride does to a person
if they can't have it anymore they will do the work and that is doing them a favor.
Work is good for the soul.


your country is going to hell.
And if your country even survives you are handing over a terrible future to your children.
One that is fragile without security and without strength.
America the Beautiful ... the future isn't looking so.

pandora

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Monitoring what people purchase is already in place. ADP and other payroll systems that provide Health Flexible Spending Account Debit cards already do that function for items that are allowed under that part of the tax code. I can't imagine it would be that difficult to extend that to other items that have bar codes. It would makes selling those cards less valuable because, anyone buying it would still only be able to use it for fruits, vegetables, meats and not soda, ice cream, beer and cigarettes. The technology is already in place. It just needs to be tweaked.

Yes lets tweak them so $30,000 isn't used in one liquor store in one month or used in casinos and strip clubs
cause right now that is where your tax dollars are going.

There is a monitoring of food stamps but not the welfare debit cards.

Jeanwah

Go Beavers wrote:

I can't help but think that people who are pushing requirements (performance tests, home visits, drug tests) have a desire to shame/humiliate welfare recipients in the hopes that this humiliation will somehow help things.

This is EXACTLY it.
Blockhead (ever so kindly) felt the need not to "embarrass me" because I receive assistance by PM'ing me.
Yet, I don't embarrass very easily so I don't care.

Where's "the finger" smilie?

pandora

I got one if you want to borrow it

Go Beavers

Blockhead wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

By posting this you validate my point about shaming them.

Could you please pause before you make sweeping generalizations? It's a common theme in your posts.

Shaming them? How, because I point out that we aren't equal... So are you saying because I work and buy a house for $200,000 that any person on welfare should be given a $200,000 house so that we are all equal and they don't feel embarrassed...
How is it a generalization to say that the poor do not invest themselves in education? DO you teach at a inner-city/public school? My wife teaches 6th graders who can't even read. How are their graduation rates? Just because I am not PC about the poor does not make my claims any less true. Do you spend 8 hours a day with these people? My wife used to be just like majority of posters on this board, She never agreed with me, called me the same names you all do. I wish she could/would post some of her stories on here, Its funny that people who never interact with the poor/welfare always excuse their decisions in life and generalize them all as having bad luck. Its hard to feel sorry of these people who can't even fucking bath /cloth their kids. Kids in her classes wear the same clothes for a week. My wife sometimes gives them sancks after school and countless kids have said that this is as much as there going to eat all weekend. But your right all the people here that have NEVER worked with them know all about thier bad breaks and tough work schedules...
Man

You can try and imply that my stance/views are invalid because I lack exposure with welfare recipients, but the truth is my experience with less fortunate, both professionally and otherwise, would completely bury you and your wife's. So does that make me more right than you? We have a different way of digesting our surroundings. Your posts make you come across as very judgmental and ignorant. Remember when you said that parent who couldn't provide for their kids should be removed from their home? This is more than just using PC imbedded language. You seem to have more deeply imbedded resentments.

Jeanwah

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

I can't help but think that people who are pushing requirements (performance tests, home visits, drug tests) have a desire to shame/humiliate welfare recipients in the hopes that this humiliation will somehow help things.

maybe it is a way to validate themselves and reinforce their beliefs that they are better and more noble than everyone else.

being able to afford things makes you no more or less human than anyone else...

that should ALWAYS be kept in mind when the haves are bitching about the have nots.

It just blows my mind that people who have it so well; health, a warm bed, food to eat, well furnished house, etc. would waste all their time to cuss out those who are worse off. Really; there must be some shallow, empty, black pit in their souls to want waste a perfectly good life to belittle another person. Serious lack of security and self respect also. Obviously their parents didn't love them enough. The things that bullies are made of.

brandon10

I wouldn't worry about it Jeanwah...People like that are very unhappy with their lives.

Better Dan

pandora wrote:

I didn't read through all this but just want to say we can't, as a country, afford this anymore.
Pretty much that simple...spend spend spend and time is running out.

When I go to the grocery store the majority of people now have food stamp cards or the baby care cards.

A recent investigation in our area by a news team tracking the welfare debit cards and came up with 30,000 dollars spent at one liquor store in one month and cards used at strip clubs golf courses etc. The cards are sold on the street for cash for drugs... more fraud.
The Feds need to tighten the restrictions of use.
I think most want to help those who really need it but working Americans are being taken advantage of and too many are milking the system.

Whats the deficit now? 17 trillion... did I hear that... holy crap

also community service is a good thing for the able bodied .. it promotes goodwill all around.

Great post Pandora. I'm a forensic auditor and have done a lot of investigative work on receipients abusing entitlement benefits. There is a lot more fraud/abuse than people (especially in this thread apparently) think and it IS a growing problem.

gimmesometruth27

Jeanwah wrote:

It just blows my mind that people who have it so well; health, a warm bed, food to eat, well furnished house, etc. would waste all their time to cuss out those who are worse off. Really; there must be some shallow, empty, black pit in their souls to want waste a perfectly good life to belittle another person. Serious lack of security and self respect also. Obviously their parents didn't love them enough. The things that bullies are made of.

and many of these people are the same ones who will argue against funding for planned parenthood and farm subsidies, argue for lower taxes, AND argue FOR subsidies for oil companies....it makes absolutely no sense to me...