The Donald

callen

jeffbr said:

Gern Blansten said:

History is going to look at Obama very favorably....whether you can admit it or not

We'll see. It is always so hard to gauge while it is still current. Somehow Lil' Bush has made a bit of a recovery in how he is viewed so one never knows how things will ultimately turn out in hindsight. Obama has done some good things, missed the boat on some things, didn't do some things he should have. Overall I think he's done a fine job domestically, and has shown he really doesn't have any game internationally. I believe his presidency will be viewed favorably as well, but I'm dropping the "very". I don't think he has done anything legacy worthy, but also didn't fuck us up (or at least hasn't yet).

Healthcare may end up being a legacy item.

And yeah he didn't do anything in particular but support for equal rights for gays (DADT) and not being an Ashcroft on MJ will be mentioned.

Gern Blansten

JimmyV said:

Gern Blansten said:

I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.

Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch

Cuba.

Potentially this Iran deal.

And he has another year and a half still to go.

yep....exactly

JimmyV

If a Republican had been in office when bin Laden was killed, the celebration would have been "Mission Accomplished" times twenty. It would have put the Triumphs staged by Roman Generals to shame.

Obama...just another day on his watch.

callen

jeffbr said:

Gern Blansten said:

I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.

Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but has put a tremendous burden on the middle class who once were able to secure health insurance at affordable rates, but now have worse coverage for more money out of pocket. It needs some work. He certainly helped low income people afford insurance for the first time, so that was good. Killing Bin Laden may well be a legacy. Gay marriage and legalization of MJ were movements by citizens in states, and the feds have been following along playing catch up, so I don't give Obama much credit for that. He didn't even come to support gay marriage until his daughter convinced him.

And the recovery from the 2008 recession was a good thing. I'm not sure exactly what he did other than continue the bailouts started by the Bush administration. Congress has put more controls in place, but I think the crooks on Wall Street got "get out of jail free" cards. Heads should have rolled. But we did recover. Whether that was actually due to Obama is debatable, but it did occur on his watch. Again, not sure if that will be a legacy, or a coincidence.

My experience is different on AHC. Positive and available. Agree should be improved. On equal rights regardless of how he came about or even if he waited till it was safe, wouldn't if happened under Republican president.

Gern Blansten

jeffbr said:

Gern Blansten said:

I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.

Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but has put a tremendous burden on the middle class who once were able to secure health insurance at affordable rates, but now have worse coverage for more money out of pocket. It needs some work. He certainly helped low income people afford insurance for the first time, so that was good. Killing Bin Laden may well be a legacy. Gay marriage and legalization of MJ were movements by citizens in states, and the feds have been following along playing catch up, so I don't give Obama much credit for that. He didn't even come to support gay marriage until his daughter convinced him.

And the recovery from the 2008 recession was a good thing. I'm not sure exactly what he did other than continue the bailouts started by the Bush administration. Congress has put more controls in place, but I think the crooks on Wall Street got "get out of jail free" cards. Heads should have rolled. But we did recover. Whether that was actually due to Obama is debatable, but it did occur on his watch. Again, not sure if that will be a legacy, or a coincidence.

Healthcare was never affordable prior to Obamacare. I'm not sure what situation you were in to make that comment but as a self employed middle class employer I call bullshit on that. My premiums consistently went up 20-25%/year until 2009 or so when healthcare reform was being discussed. It still increases every year but no where in the range that it did before.

RElated to the recovery....he definitely had a hand in keeping the Bush tax increases in tact. The GOP wanted to roll them back and he wouldn't let them. The deficits would have been huge without that. And get this....unemployment and growth CONTINUED even though those tax increases went into effect....imagine that.

jeffbr

Gern Blansten said:

jeffbr said:

Gern Blansten said:

I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.

Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but has put a tremendous burden on the middle class who once were able to secure health insurance at affordable rates, but now have worse coverage for more money out of pocket. It needs some work. He certainly helped low income people afford insurance for the first time, so that was good. Killing Bin Laden may well be a legacy. Gay marriage and legalization of MJ were movements by citizens in states, and the feds have been following along playing catch up, so I don't give Obama much credit for that. He didn't even come to support gay marriage until his daughter convinced him.

And the recovery from the 2008 recession was a good thing. I'm not sure exactly what he did other than continue the bailouts started by the Bush administration. Congress has put more controls in place, but I think the crooks on Wall Street got "get out of jail free" cards. Heads should have rolled. But we did recover. Whether that was actually due to Obama is debatable, but it did occur on his watch. Again, not sure if that will be a legacy, or a coincidence.

Healthcare was never affordable prior to Obamacare. I'm not sure what situation you were in to make that comment but as a self employed middle class employer I call bullshit on that. My premiums consistently went up 20-25%/year until 2009 or so when healthcare reform was being discussed. It still increases every year but no where in the range that it did before.

RElated to the recovery....he definitely had a hand in keeping the Bush tax increases in tact. The GOP wanted to roll them back and he wouldn't let them. The deficits would have been huge without that. And get this....unemployment and growth CONTINUED even though those tax increases went into effect....imagine that.

I didn't intend for this to turn into any sort of Obama bashing on my part, BTW. As I said, I think he's doing a fine job. I just don't believe he'll be remembered as one of the greats.

You can call bullshit on my experiences with health insurance, but in my situation, and those of most of my friends and peers, employer provided health insurance has been affected, and mostly negatively. Premiums rose, co-pays rose, prescription co-pays rose, deductibles rose. A couple of friends with individual policies were informed that their policies would not renew. Remember when there was backtracking by Obama after his promise of "if you're happy with your health insurance, keep it!" schtick? Many people were happy (relatively speaking) with their health insurance, and suddenly no longer had access to it. Again, I think it was a good thing that people who previously couldn't afford health insurance now have access. I'm just pointing out that it was not some sort of unmitigated success and legacy worthy. It was a good start and will need some work. Especially if we are still calling it the Affordable Healthcare Act, which to many of us is a misnomer. I'm glad you have had a different experience with it, and again am glad others can now get insurance they previously could not.

callen

Kind of sidetracked.

Donald does seem to be building momentum. This is gonna be fun.

jeffbr

callen said:

Kind of sidetracked.

Donald does seem to be building momentum. This is gonna be fun.

Haha, back on track. It is going to be fun to watch. Donald will never be able to win the party nomination, much less the presidency, but he is certainly providing entertainment, and much more importantly, forcing discussion of issues. He's a kook in some ways, but he is making both Republicans and Democrats think about and talk about issues. For an elite, arrogant, rich guy, it seems like he's got a populist vibe going somehow. I will be curious to see how he does in the debates. I don't think he's used to being told what to do, and is usually the one giving direction, so who knows if he can even follow the rules of the debate? I do imagine him standing there smirking while some of the other Republican candidates start flushing and sweating.

Gern Blansten

jeffbr said:

Gern Blansten said:

jeffbr said:

Gern Blansten said:

I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.

Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but has put a tremendous burden on the middle class who once were able to secure health insurance at affordable rates, but now have worse coverage for more money out of pocket. It needs some work. He certainly helped low income people afford insurance for the first time, so that was good. Killing Bin Laden may well be a legacy. Gay marriage and legalization of MJ were movements by citizens in states, and the feds have been following along playing catch up, so I don't give Obama much credit for that. He didn't even come to support gay marriage until his daughter convinced him.

And the recovery from the 2008 recession was a good thing. I'm not sure exactly what he did other than continue the bailouts started by the Bush administration. Congress has put more controls in place, but I think the crooks on Wall Street got "get out of jail free" cards. Heads should have rolled. But we did recover. Whether that was actually due to Obama is debatable, but it did occur on his watch. Again, not sure if that will be a legacy, or a coincidence.

Healthcare was never affordable prior to Obamacare. I'm not sure what situation you were in to make that comment but as a self employed middle class employer I call bullshit on that. My premiums consistently went up 20-25%/year until 2009 or so when healthcare reform was being discussed. It still increases every year but no where in the range that it did before.

RElated to the recovery....he definitely had a hand in keeping the Bush tax increases in tact. The GOP wanted to roll them back and he wouldn't let them. The deficits would have been huge without that. And get this....unemployment and growth CONTINUED even though those tax increases went into effect....imagine that.

I didn't intend for this to turn into any sort of Obama bashing on my part, BTW. As I said, I think he's doing a fine job. I just don't believe he'll be remembered as one of the greats.

You can call bullshit on my experiences with health insurance, but in my situation, and those of most of my friends and peers, employer provided health insurance has been affected, and mostly negatively. Premiums rose, co-pays rose, prescription co-pays rose, deductibles rose. A couple of friends with individual policies were informed that their policies would not renew. Remember when there was backtracking by Obama after his promise of "if you're happy with your health insurance, keep it!" schtick? Many people were happy (relatively speaking) with their health insurance, and suddenly no longer had access to it. Again, I think it was a good thing that people who previously couldn't afford health insurance now have access. I'm just pointing out that it was not some sort of unmitigated success and legacy worthy. It was a good start and will need some work. Especially if we are still calling it the Affordable Healthcare Act, which to many of us is a misnomer. I'm glad you have had a different experience with it, and again am glad others can now get insurance they previously could not.

Yes if the plan was subpar and had to catch up to the minimum requirements there would definitely be adjustments. I agree that sucks. But it really had to happen to get any type of meaningful reform. They are still putting the screws to us....hopefully the critics were right and Obamacare is the first step toward single payer.

Idris

I agree...History will look back at Obama very favorably..As long as History is written by a person with no Eyes, ears and half a brain.

Idris

Gern Blansten said:

JimmyV said:

Gern Blansten said:

I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.

Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch

Cuba.

Potentially this Iran deal.

And he has another year and a half still to go.

yep....exactly

His War Crimes have been Forgiven.

jeffbr

Gern Blansten said:

jeffbr said:

Gern Blansten said:

jeffbr said:

Gern Blansten said:

I would say that at a minimum Obamacare and the killing of bin Laden is legacy worthy. The supreme court ruling related to gay marriage is huge and has a lot to do with his leadership.

Also the recovery from the 2008 recession occurring on his watch

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but has put a tremendous burden on the middle class who once were able to secure health insurance at affordable rates, but now have worse coverage for more money out of pocket. It needs some work. He certainly helped low income people afford insurance for the first time, so that was good. Killing Bin Laden may well be a legacy. Gay marriage and legalization of MJ were movements by citizens in states, and the feds have been following along playing catch up, so I don't give Obama much credit for that. He didn't even come to support gay marriage until his daughter convinced him.

And the recovery from the 2008 recession was a good thing. I'm not sure exactly what he did other than continue the bailouts started by the Bush administration. Congress has put more controls in place, but I think the crooks on Wall Street got "get out of jail free" cards. Heads should have rolled. But we did recover. Whether that was actually due to Obama is debatable, but it did occur on his watch. Again, not sure if that will be a legacy, or a coincidence.

Healthcare was never affordable prior to Obamacare. I'm not sure what situation you were in to make that comment but as a self employed middle class employer I call bullshit on that. My premiums consistently went up 20-25%/year until 2009 or so when healthcare reform was being discussed. It still increases every year but no where in the range that it did before.

RElated to the recovery....he definitely had a hand in keeping the Bush tax increases in tact. The GOP wanted to roll them back and he wouldn't let them. The deficits would have been huge without that. And get this....unemployment and growth CONTINUED even though those tax increases went into effect....imagine that.

I didn't intend for this to turn into any sort of Obama bashing on my part, BTW. As I said, I think he's doing a fine job. I just don't believe he'll be remembered as one of the greats.

You can call bullshit on my experiences with health insurance, but in my situation, and those of most of my friends and peers, employer provided health insurance has been affected, and mostly negatively. Premiums rose, co-pays rose, prescription co-pays rose, deductibles rose. A couple of friends with individual policies were informed that their policies would not renew. Remember when there was backtracking by Obama after his promise of "if you're happy with your health insurance, keep it!" schtick? Many people were happy (relatively speaking) with their health insurance, and suddenly no longer had access to it. Again, I think it was a good thing that people who previously couldn't afford health insurance now have access. I'm just pointing out that it was not some sort of unmitigated success and legacy worthy. It was a good start and will need some work. Especially if we are still calling it the Affordable Healthcare Act, which to many of us is a misnomer. I'm glad you have had a different experience with it, and again am glad others can now get insurance they previously could not.

Yes if the plan was subpar and had to catch up to the minimum requirements there would definitely be adjustments. I agree that sucks. But it really had to happen to get any type of meaningful reform. They are still putting the screws to us....hopefully the critics were right and Obamacare is the first step toward single payer.

It was a lot deeper than just plans being subpar. There were plans that were fine, but insurers got rid of them in order to cover margins on other plans they were required to offer. The plan I used to have I used to use. The plan I currently have I can't afford to use. I now view it as catastrophic coverage, rather than using it for preventative and wellness care. Same insurance company, same employer, same premium coming out of my paycheck. Much worse coverage.

Anyway, I do agree with your last sentence. What we had wasn't working for the poor. What we have isn't working for many who were fine under the previous system. We need to move to single payer, and see if we can create a system that everyone can use, that can control healthcare costs, and that provides access and service when it is needed.

callen

jeffbr said:

callen said:

Kind of sidetracked.

Donald does seem to be building momentum. This is gonna be fun.

Haha, back on track. It is going to be fun to watch. Donald will never be able to win the party nomination, much less the presidency, but he is certainly providing entertainment, and much more importantly, forcing discussion of issues. He's a kook in some ways, but he is making both Republicans and Democrats think about and talk about issues. For an elite, arrogant, rich guy, it seems like he's got a populist vibe going somehow. I will be curious to see how he does in the debates. I don't think he's used to being told what to do, and is usually the one giving direction, so who knows if he can even follow the rules of the debate? I do imagine him standing there smirking while some of the other Republican candidates start flushing and sweating.

Warming up to the guy. Liked what he said about negotiating with Iranians.

rgambs

Idris said:

I agree...History will look back at Obama very favorably..As long as History is written by a person with no Eyes, ears and half a brain.

Spoken like a blind, deaf, half-brain.

josevolution

Really can you tell us how your personal life has been affected by this President what has happened to you that he is at fault for ....talking to you Idris

Idris

rgambs said:

Idris said:

I agree...History will look back at Obama very favorably..As long as History is written by a person with no Eyes, ears and half a brain.

Spoken like a blind, deaf, half-brain.

lame

rgambs

With records on the books in job growth and stock market highs, landmark healthcare reform and civil rights gains, no costly, unpopular wars or major ethical scandals, all from the first black President with the most obstructionist legislative body in living memory... Yeah favorable seems reasonable.
Many presidents have done worse and are still viewed favorably.

rgambs

Oh yeah, he also majorly slowed Iran's bid for nuclear weaponry and hasn't had a major terrorist attack under his watch.
Let's all hope those hold up over time!

Idris

The Geneva Convention, Human rights, international law...Do these things mean anything to some of you? When laws/rights have been broken so flagrantly.

NSA spying, Patriot Act, lies, hypocrisy. Obama..He's got em all.

I'm calling out our Circus Monkey Obama, just like I called out the previous circus Monkey, Bush. When I talked about the War Crimes of W Bush...Democrats loved me!

I hold that same standard towards Obama, and guess what? It's like..How dare you! He tried his best, blame the republicans. Its not his fault blah blah blah

He is a War Criminal.

Defend his killings all you want, he's still a War Criminal.

Idris

rgambs said:

Oh yeah, he also majorly slowed Iran's bid for nuclear weaponry and hasn't had a major terrorist attack under his watch.
Let's all hope those hold up over time!

rgambs said:

Oh yeah, he also majorly slowed Iran's bid for nuclear weaponry and hasn't had a major terrorist attack under his watch.
Let's all hope those hold up over time!

He has expanded the U.S. empire to a greater degree than Bush. Look at what he's done in Africa.

No Major terrorist attack under his watch,

He just committed the acts of terrorism himself with drones and Proxy armies/corrupt governments IN other countries Under His watch.