Burqa ban in france

guypjfreak

this ban comes into force today i personally agree that the whole face should not be covered but wot do you think :?:

redrock

It's a ban on ALL face covering - for security issues, though it does seem to target some more than others! There was a huge thread about it a while back. Lots of different views.

haffajappa

redrock wrote:

It's a ban on ALL face covering - for security issues, though it does seem to target some more than others! There was a huge thread about it a while back. Lots of different views.

well i can't think of too many different religions that make women cover their face
i usually have mixed feelings on this topic.

personally i think its backwards and stupid that women have to cover their faces, but i understand peoples rights to religion.

Better Dan

redrock wrote:

It's a ban on ALL face covering - for security issues, though it does seem to target some more than others! There was a huge thread about it a while back. Lots of different views.

While the wording of the law does not mention burqa or women specifically, and is a ban on all face covering. my understanding is that the intent of the law was 100 percent to ban the burqa.

In my opinion, people should be allowed to wear what they want, especially for religious reasons. I read in the newspaper that some women were arrested today by plain clothes police for wearing their burqa's in public. While they supposedly won't get any jail time, it still seems like an affront to one's religious freedoms.

keeponrockin

I don't like the idea of anybody covering their faces in places where it would be helpful for people to be easily identified. A bank is a good example, NOBODY should be able to cover their face. Other than that, wear what ya want.

Digital Twilight

haffajappa wrote:

redrock wrote:

It's a ban on ALL face covering - for security issues, though it does seem to target some more than others! There was a huge thread about it a while back. Lots of different views.

well i can't think of too many different religions that make women cover their face
i usually have mixed feelings on this topic.

personally i think its backwards and stupid that women have to cover their faces, but i understand peoples rights to religion.

Actually it is a choice to wear the Burqa. It is not forced on by their religion I think but has just evolved from that. Maybe someone with more knowledge can comment further but that is my understanding. A lot of these women choose to wear them and feel comfortable in them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ap ... nza-drider

You hear people often commenting about how it is awful that women are oppressed etc but it really wasn't until recently that women in the western world achieved equal rights and there is still a big debate on how 'equal' women really are.

ShimmyMommy

So is it assumed that people may also not wear sunglasses there anymore, or even Transitions glasses? They cover the eyes...hiding an important part of identifying someone...
This is another loophole by which government is attacking religious beliefs...I see a civil rights case in the works here...

gimmesometruth27

_____________ would probably be able to answer that question. he has spoken about it at length in the past but i have forgotten what he said at that time. i am sure you can search for threads about it from about 6 months ago or so.

Hub.

ShimmyMommy wrote:

I see a civil rights case in the works here...

Unfortunately, it's not the only issue, in France.

And because of the way our president is ruling the country (especially concerning muslims), extreme right is closing the gap. This guy is a real danger for democracy. :evil:

ShimmyMommy

Hub. wrote:

ShimmyMommy wrote:

I see a civil rights case in the works here...

Unfortunately, it's not the only issue, in France.

And because of the way our president is ruling the country (especially concerning muslims), extreme right is closing the gap. This guy is a real danger for democracy. :evil:

:? That does not sound very good. Fear-based government is the downfall of many successful societies. It's a shame that fear leads the leaders... :thumbdown:

Idris

ShimmyMommy wrote:

So is it assumed that people may also not wear sunglasses there anymore, or even Transitions glasses? They cover the eyes...hiding an important part of identifying someone...
This is another loophole by which government is attacking religious beliefs...I see a civil rights case in the works here...

That's a good point Shimmy, what exactly is the limit on 'face covering', if it's truly for ID reasons only, then the ban should include many other things, like sunglasses and makeup, sometimes it's hard to ID a woman under all that face paint

Bad government!

ShimmyMommy

MrAbraham wrote:

ShimmyMommy wrote:

So is it assumed that people may also not wear sunglasses there anymore, or even Transitions glasses? They cover the eyes...hiding an important part of identifying someone...
This is another loophole by which government is attacking religious beliefs...I see a civil rights case in the works here...

That's a good point Shimmy, what exactly is the limit on 'face covering', if it's truly for ID reasons only, then the ban should include many other things, like sunglasses and makeup, sometimes it's hard to ID a woman under all that face paint

Bad government!

Make-up! I completely forgot about make-up! See, there are too many discrepancies to allow such a ban!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ2WbAf3t8w

Godfather.

I don't see the what the problem is, if the ban is in France or the USA it's all the same to me.
unfortunately there has been serious problems with the radical muslims in many countries
and these governments will do what is necessary to help protect their people, when anybody goes to
another country they must abide by their laws...old or new laws and if they don't like them maybe they
should find somewhere else to live...ha ha maybe this kind of law can help abolish the helmet law in California.
just say'n.


Godfather.

Kel Varnsen

MrAbraham wrote:

ShimmyMommy wrote:

So is it assumed that people may also not wear sunglasses there anymore, or even Transitions glasses? They cover the eyes...hiding an important part of identifying someone...
This is another loophole by which government is attacking religious beliefs...I see a civil rights case in the works here...

That's a good point Shimmy, what exactly is the limit on 'face covering', if it's truly for ID reasons only, then the ban should include many other things, like sunglasses and makeup, sometimes it's hard to ID a woman under all that face paint

Bad government!

Are people allowed to wear those huge sunglasses that cover like half their face? Wearing big sunglasses and a hat would probably be as much of a security risk. What about beards? Are you allowed to grow a beard? Is halloween also banned?

Godfather.

and plastic surgery.

Godfather.

redrock

MrAbraham wrote:

ShimmyMommy wrote:

So is it assumed that people may also not wear sunglasses there anymore, or even Transitions glasses? They cover the eyes...hiding an important part of identifying someone...
This is another loophole by which government is attacking religious beliefs...I see a civil rights case in the works here...

That's a good point Shimmy, what exactly is the limit on 'face covering', if it's truly for ID reasons only, then the ban should include many other things, like sunglasses and makeup, sometimes it's hard to ID a woman under all that face paint

Bad government!

In the old thread, I think there is the 'wording' of this law. Full face covering, including masks, helmets, etc.

Also, it has already been enforced in The Netherlands and Belgium, I think.

Digital Twilight

Godfather. wrote:

I don't see the what the problem is, if the ban is in France or the USA it's all the same to me.
unfortunately there has been serious problems with the radical muslims in many countries
and these governments will do what is necessary to help protect their people, when anybody goes to
another country they must abide by their laws...old or new laws and if they don't like them maybe they
should find somewhere else to live...ha ha maybe this kind of law can help abolish the helmet law in California.
just say'n.


Godfather.

It's called fear politics. To suggest a Burqa ban will help reduce 'radical muslims' (whatever you deem that to entail) you are greatly mistaken. All about attacking what you don't understand and disciminate against a legitimate religious piece of clothing. Things like this can just be the first steps leading to something much worse.

ShimmyMommy

Godfather. wrote:

I don't see the what the problem is, if the ban is in France or the USA it's all the same to me.
unfortunately there has been serious problems with the radical muslims in many countries
and these governments will do what is necessary to help protect their people, when anybody goes to
another country they must abide by their laws...old or new laws and if they don't like them maybe they
should find somewhere else to live...ha ha maybe this kind of law can help abolish the helmet law in California.
just say'n.

Godfather.

I agree that it doesn't matter where the ban is taking place. It is wrong, unless it applies to every single citizen--regardless of religion. To create legislation to segregate people based on their religious beliefs is archaic, like burning women without proof that they are witches.
If there were a few extremist Catholics who acted out, would it be within reason to say all monks or nuns cannot wear their habits in every country they visited? It was their choice to become devotees, so who are we to tell them they can't show it?
Religious extremists are also acting out of fear. They use religious doctrine to hide behind their own fear-based actions. The government is acting in the same manner and hiding behind legislation. Both sides are buying into the stereotyping they hear about each other, and the only way out of that fear-driven ignorance is education on both parts.

ShimmyMommy

Digital Twilight wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

I don't see the what the problem is, if the ban is in France or the USA it's all the same to me.
unfortunately there has been serious problems with the radical muslims in many countries
and these governments will do what is necessary to help protect their people, when anybody goes to
another country they must abide by their laws...old or new laws and if they don't like them maybe they
should find somewhere else to live...ha ha maybe this kind of law can help abolish the helmet law in California.
just say'n.


Godfather.

It's called fear politics. To suggest a Burqa ban will help reduce 'radical muslims' (whatever you deem that to entail) you are greatly mistaken. All about attacking what you don't understand and disciminate against a legitimate religious piece of clothing. Things like this can just be the first steps leading to something much worse.

Yes, exactly...the terrorists that committed crimes were mostly men...they did not wear the burqua. They wore sunglasses and hats.

Godfather.

sorry guy's I still don't see a real problem here, I'll admit that it is a inconvenience to the women that wear the burqa but they did leave their country to find safety or a better living elsewhere so they should abide by that country's laws.

Godfather.

ShimmyMommy

Godfather. wrote:

sorry guy's I still don't see a real problem here, I'll admit that it is a inconvenience to the women that wear the burqa but they did leave their country to find safety or a better living elsewhere so they should abide by that country's laws.

Godfather.

I can see your point. I find that most people that come to a new country keep their customs until they are familiar with the new ones. I know many that choose to take off the burqa after they became comfortable here. A new country should offer comfort to a new citizen, it shows understanding and compassion. It removes the worldwide stereotype of that country that the person may (or may not) have. It helps with the transitional period, not mention builds a patriotism in a new citizen that can sometimes rival that of a naturalized one. This is why I hesitate on legislation like this...it can deter people of great intelligence and moral standards from ever wanting to learn from a new country.

That being said, I am a naturalized Canadian. My parents immigrated here before I was born. It took them many years to transition, due to the close-minded racism and stereotyping from other citizens. I only know Canadian customs. I am also Roman Catholic. Betcha didn't see that coming! And still, people expect an Indian accent and traditional clothing. Frequently, people who call my home, think I am a Caucasian, because of my name and my voice...boy, are they surprised when they first meet me face-to-face. They are always surprised I love Pearl Jam...according to stereotype I should like hip hop & dance music only. I am somewhat of a conundrum to others, indeed...but that is another matter altogether...another thread too

sorry for the ramble. :oops: