the kill team

arq

WTF!?! sickening, I know war is not beautiful, but when you look like you're enjoying it is grotesque.

Jason P

polaris_x wrote:

this is symbolic of the entire system and culture ... it didn't start in afghanistan or iraq ... it started at home ... it started with the lack of education ... and it was finished when you put young kids into extremely stressful and immoral situations ...

before we cast these "killers" into some bottomless pit ... we need to look ourselves in the mirror and ask how we contributed to the killings of innocent people ... if you think you aren't partially to blame - you are sadly mistaken ...

Please explain what personal actions you did that make you partially responsible for these murders.

Shawshank

polaris_x wrote:

this is symbolic of the entire system and culture ... it didn't start in afghanistan or iraq ... it started at home ... it started with the lack of education ... and it was finished when you put young kids into extremely stressful and immoral situations ...

before we cast these "killers" into some bottomless pit ... we need to look ourselves in the mirror and ask how we contributed to the killings of innocent people ... if you think you aren't partially to blame - you are sadly mistaken ...

Education has nothing to do with being a sociopath, and based on their actions that is clearly what these sick bastards are.

Idris

polaris_x wrote:

this is symbolic of the entire system and culture ... it didn't start in afghanistan or iraq ... it started at home ... it started with the lack of education ... and it was finished when you put young kids into extremely stressful and immoral situations ...

before we cast these "killers" into some bottomless pit ... we need to look ourselves in the mirror and ask how we contributed to the killings of innocent people ... if you think you aren't partially to blame - you are sadly mistaken ...

That's a solid post, very well said...

Idris

cincybearcat wrote:

chickweed wrote:

The images – more than 150 of which have been obtained by Rolling Stone – portray a front-line culture among U.S. troops in which killing innocent civilians is seen as a cause for celebration.

Nothing like generalizing the entire military based on the actions of a few.

I won't click on the pictures now, maybe later. From what I've read here, it is absolutely disgusting and shameful.

Only a few right? and what is the rest of the army doing? oh yes, taking part in brutal occupations for American Imperialism, is that any better? They all guilty, we are all guilty.

I understand how hard it must be for soldiers, but at the end of the day, they are doing wrong by being in Iraq/Afghanistan, and when people say "They are just following orders", that does very little to sway me, if anything that just shows the sheep mentality. It is really really sad.

Jason P

I thought this topic might escalate quickly to the point that the entire military is responsible for the murders, but I didn't think it would get to the point that my cat and I should be feeling guilty for our role as well.

polaris_x

Jason P wrote:

Please explain what personal actions you did that make you partially responsible for these murders.

because we support this system of exploitation ... a system that has been manipulated by the greedy and powerful ... when you buy gas for your car - it feeds an entity that funds militias and paramilitaries throughout the world to maintain an economic order ... places like Afghanistan became the way they are because we blindly allow our "leaders" to make foreign policy decisions that support dictatorships and oppressive regimes ...

when you pay taxes ... some of that money goes to funding coups and civil unrest in developing countries so that they may be exploited for the goods ...

polaris_x

Shawshank wrote:

Education has nothing to do with being a sociopath, and based on their actions that is clearly what these sick bastards are.

education is part of it ... it's not everything ... but it's part of it ... the reality is that US foreign policy over the last several decades should make every American ashamed ... yet, most are oblivious to this ... scoring below the OECD averages for developed countries in basic education metrics is part of this I believe ...

Jason P

polaris_x wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Please explain what personal actions you did that make you partially responsible for these murders.

because we support this system of exploitation ... a system that has been manipulated by the greedy and powerful ... when you buy gas for your car - it feeds an entity that funds militias and paramilitaries throughout the world to maintain an economic order ... places like Afghanistan became the way they are because we blindly allow our "leaders" to make foreign policy decisions that support dictatorships and oppressive regimes ...

when you pay taxes ... some of that money goes to funding coups and civil unrest in developing countries so that they may be exploited for the goods ...

I like to think of my tax dollars going to support NASA and local schools, but what do you suggest? I'd stop paying taxes but I've learned from Wesley Snipes that it's probably not the best idea in the world. If I move to another country, I'm sure that they would want a cut as well. And my parents would probably reject the idea of letting me live in their basement rent free, so I'm in a pickle.

When I buy gas for my car, I can't be 100% certain that the money is funding militias overseas, but I am 100% certain that it is providing a paycheck for the person behind the counter (not that I want to fund their paycheck).

As for being sheep and blindly following our leaders, I had no better chance of getting Dubya on the blower back in 2001 to call off the Iraq invasion then I did sending a text message to Obama to call off the missile strike in Libya. Unless you don't have an income and live off the land (illegally), I guess you are a sheep in the flock of your country, but most people accusing others of being sheep are sheep themselves under that logic.

Back to the original topic, I'm still certain that I'm not responsible for a group of drug using sadistic murderers going on a killing spree a world away. The world is full of evil people.

cincybearcat

MrAbraham wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

chickweed wrote:

The images – more than 150 of which have been obtained by Rolling Stone – portray a front-line culture among U.S. troops in which killing innocent civilians is seen as a cause for celebration.

Nothing like generalizing the entire military based on the actions of a few.

I won't click on the pictures now, maybe later. From what I've read here, it is absolutely disgusting and shameful.

Only a few right? and what is the rest of the army doing? oh yes, taking part in brutal occupations for American Imperialism, is that any better? They all guilty, we are all guilty.

You should go ahead and turn yourself in then.

Idris

cincybearcat wrote:

You should go ahead and turn yourself in then.

The soldiers in the army have the ability to stop the wars, all they have to do is not fight them. They also have very legal and human rights laws on their side. The right thing is to not continue fighting in the wars, yet they do.

What problem do you really have with my post? I mean once you strip away your own bias and ego, what basic facts are against my points?

I have no issue saying that all soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, are doing more harm than good, and also continuing to help uphold twisted American hegemony. Unless you buy that we are in those countries for freedom and candy parties for the kids?

The facts are not so hidden, put them all on the table, look at them clearly, see potentials in them, use some sound logic.

America is an Empire, a system so corrupt, that it's lies and propaganda are so intricately woven into the DNA of it's people and control and influences of billions of people in the world.

The soldiers are in the front line of this, and like many soldiers in history, are used, at the same time what will it take for them to wake up? Really see what they are involved with. Not just that, but seeing how much power they hold.

It's really just sad, but at the same time we obviously must not take away any potential good in these soldiers, but the intent is to simply point out basic facts and how time/money and resources would be better spent in other directions, rather than brutal occupations.

The fuel for that machine is partly the votes we cast electing the leaders, and our overly sensitive selves blocking the truth. Allowing ourselves to be so ignorant towards the truth.

dr0ptheleash

Pictures like those should not exist. How can one with a soul do such a thing. I hardly realized I was still shaking..

polaris_x

Jason P wrote:

I like to think of my tax dollars going to support NASA and local schools, but what do you suggest? I'd stop paying taxes but I've learned from Wesley Snipes that it's probably not the best idea in the world. If I move to another country, I'm sure that they would want a cut as well. And my parents would probably reject the idea of letting me live in their basement rent free, so I'm in a pickle.

When I buy gas for my car, I can't be 100% certain that the money is funding militias overseas, but I am 100% certain that it is providing a paycheck for the person behind the counter (not that I want to fund their paycheck).

As for being sheep and blindly following our leaders, I had no better chance of getting Dubya on the blower back in 2001 to call off the Iraq invasion then I did sending a text message to Obama to call off the missile strike in Libya. Unless you don't have an income and live off the land (illegally), I guess you are a sheep in the flock of your country, but most people accusing others of being sheep are sheep themselves under that logic.

Back to the original topic, I'm still certain that I'm not responsible for a group of drug using sadistic murderers going on a killing spree a world away. The world is full of evil people.

yeah ... you'd like to think but unfortunately ... your tax dollars do a lot of things ...

you'd also like to absolve yourself from your consumption patterns by focusing on what you perceive to be the good ... ie buying gas so the gas attendant could have a paycheck ... look - we know oil companies fund paramilitary groups ... we also know oil companies fund a lot of these organizations that's sole purpose is to discredit environmentalists ... it's all so we can live in this mythical world ...

sure ... you're just one person ... but aren't we all ... aren't we supposed to be in a democracy .. if we ran a referendum on "should tax dollars be used to disrupt sovereign nation's government in order to create positive economic conditions for american corporations" ... what do you think the vote would be?

Godfather.

MrAbraham wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

chickweed wrote:

The images – more than 150 of which have been obtained by Rolling Stone – portray a front-line culture among U.S. troops in which killing innocent civilians is seen as a cause for celebration.

Nothing like generalizing the entire military based on the actions of a few.

I won't click on the pictures now, maybe later. From what I've read here, it is absolutely disgusting and shameful.

Only a few right? and what is the rest of the army doing? oh yes, taking part in brutal occupations for American Imperialism, is that any better? They all guilty, we are all guilty.

I understand how hard it must be for soldiers, but at the end of the day, they are doing wrong by being in Iraq/Afghanistan, and when people say "They are just following orders", that does very little to sway me, if anything that just shows the sheep mentality. It is really really sad.

you sound like you might be a follower or a sympathizer of the west burro baptist church.
banging on the military that protects our freedom is just plain crazy and before you go off on a rant
about AMERICAN IMPERIALISM look around and think where would my way of life and freedom be
without a strong military.

Godfather.

Godfather.

Jason P

polaris_x wrote:

yeah ... you'd like to think but unfortunately ... your tax dollars do a lot of things ...

you'd also like to absolve yourself from your consumption patterns by focusing on what you perceive to be the good ... ie buying gas so the gas attendant could have a paycheck ... look - we know oil companies fund paramilitary groups ... we also know oil companies fund a lot of these organizations that's sole purpose is to discredit environmentalists ... it's all so we can live in this mythical world ...

sure ... you're just one person ... but aren't we all ... aren't we supposed to be in a democracy .. if we ran a referendum on "should tax dollars be used to disrupt sovereign nation's government in order to create positive economic conditions for american corporations" ... what do you think the vote would be?

Until technology improves, we are stuck with oil being a major part of our lives. Sad but true. And everyone is forced to pay taxes which supports everything from education to cruise missiles.

I've tried to argue that taxes should lowered for everyone and the federal budget needs to be cut drastically, but the general consensus here is that it would somehow erode the middle class while giving more power to the 2% elite. But when a military thread starts, everyone from Mt. Pious wants me to feel bad and guilty for paying taxes that support bombs and guns. It's quite a predicament I'm in. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

But I'm still not with you on everyone "being guilty" of the crimes of the 3rd platoon of the the striker brigade. If someone on welfare drowns their kids in a bathtub, technically I should assume the same guilt.

ed243421

MrAbraham wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

You should go ahead and turn yourself in then.

The soldiers in the army have the ability to stop the wars, all they have to do is not fight them. They also have very legal and human rights laws on their side. The right thing is to not continue fighting in the wars, yet they do.

What problem do you really have with my post? I mean once you strip away your own bias and ego, what basic facts are against my points?

I have no issue saying that all soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, are doing more harm than good, and also continuing to help uphold twisted American hegemony. Unless you buy that we are in those countries for freedom and candy parties for the kids?

The facts are not so hidden, put them all on the table, look at them clearly, see potentials in them, use some sound logic.

America is an Empire, a system so corrupt, that it's lies and propaganda are so intricately woven into the DNA of it's people and control and influences of billions of people in the world.

The soldiers are in the front line of this, and like many soldiers in history, are used, at the same time what will it take for them to wake up? Really see what they are involved with. Not just that, but seeing how much power they hold.

It's really just sad, but at the same time we obviously must not take away any potential good in these soldiers, but the intent is to simply point out basic facts and how time/money and resources would be better spent in other directions, rather than brutal occupations.

The fuel for that machine is partly the votes we cast electing the leaders, and our overly sensitive selves blocking the truth. Allowing ourselves to be so ignorant towards the truth.

this is true

polaris_x

Jason P wrote:

Until technology improves, we are stuck with oil being a major part of our lives. Sad but true. And everyone is forced to pay taxes which supports everything from education to cruise missiles.

I've tried to argue that taxes should lowered for everyone and the federal budget needs to be cut drastically, but the general consensus here is that it would somehow erode the middle class while giving more power to the 2% elite. But when a military thread starts, everyone from Mt. Pious wants me to feel bad and guilty for paying taxes that support bombs and guns. It's quite a predicament I'm in. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

But I'm still not with you on everyone "being guilty" of the crimes of the 3rd platoon of the the striker brigade. If someone on welfare drowns their kids in a bathtub, technically I should assume the same guilt.

the technology already exists to move from oil ... we only think we need the stuff ... the reality is the use of the stuff doesn't make much sense ...

it isn't the amount of taxes that is relevant - it is the way it is spent ... you can pay very little tax but if the money is just used to benefit massive corporations - why bother?

i don't expect most to side with me on this one ... no one likes feeling guilt ... just understand that everything is interconnected ... your influence may be minute but it's there ...

gimmesometruth27

Godfather. wrote:

you sound like you might be a follower or a sympathizer of the west burro baptist church.
banging on the military that protects our freedom is just plain crazy and before you go off on a rant
about AMERICAN IMPERIALISM look around and think where would my way of life and freedom be
without a strong military.

Godfather.

Godfather.

i'm sorry godfather, but i just have to ask...

i always hate to read that simplistic viewpoint of soldiers defending my freedom. what freedom are those guys defending? the only freedom of mine that is at risk is that which has already been taken away from me by my own government. no soldier can give that back to me, unless they are willing to commit high treason and participate in a coup. and soldiers are too loyal and patriotic to do that sort of thing. so in essence, by carrying out their orders in these now 3 WARS they are helping you and i be less free.

the thing these monsters in this thread did, as well as those like them, have actually made you and i less safe.

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

you sound like you might be a follower or a sympathizer of the west burro baptist church.
banging on the military that protects our freedom is just plain crazy and before you go off on a rant
about AMERICAN IMPERIALISM look around and think where would my way of life and freedom be
without a strong military.

Godfather.

Godfather.

i'm sorry godfather, but i just have to ask...

i always hate to read that simplistic viewpoint of soldiers defending my freedom. what freedom are those guys defending? the only freedom of mine that is at risk is that which has already been taken away from me by my own government. no soldier can give that back to me, unless they are willing to commit high treason and participate in a coup. and soldiers are too loyal and patriotic to do that sort of thing. so in essence, by carrying out their orders in these now 3 WARS they are helping you and i be less free.

the thing these monsters in this thread did, as well as those like them, have actually made you and i less safe.

think if our military was as weak as say that of the middle east or if we had no military ? even if we made it past Britain all those years ago we at the very least would have been over thrown by Russia or China or japan
years ago, any country with a formidable military would have had us a long time ago and the native Americans
would be a archaeological memory pushed into Alaska (not that we did em any favors) but do you get my point ?
I'll bet if it was not for the US south America would be taken over also. as horrible as war is and some of the people that do such horrible things like the kill team we still need a military to protect and to maintain our standard of living and freedom, granted it could be better but it could be a hell of a lot worse also. this is still as country's go a fairly new country and all things considered it a great place to be and improvements to our country will come from people like your self and mraberham and crap... all of us but we always need a military if we like it or not.

Godfather.

Go Beavers

The military trains people to dehumanize others and therefore make it easier to kill them. Then they're thrown into a war which is a completely messed up situation beyond words and can permanently warp the strongest of minds. My guess is that most of these "monsters" were regular guys in the past, and likely still would be if they didn't enlist. Americans have this false sense that somehow our military is above this action. You can't take people, push them to the edge of insanity, and expect all of them to maintain a sense of right and wrong. Right and wrong is turned on it's head and scrambled in war. Vets that come home heros are often tortured emotionally with the fact that they did things they didn't think they could, and that they betrayed their own morals which they felt were sound in the past. This story speaks to the atrocities of war that happen in every war. It should be reviewed prior to and during our next war when the president gets and 80% approval rating and people are pumped full of "shock and awe".