The soldiers in the army have the ability to stop the wars, all they have to do is not fight them. They also have very legal and human rights laws on their side. The right thing is to not continue fighting in the wars, yet they do.
What problem do you really have with my post? I mean once you strip away your own bias and ego, what basic facts are against my points?
I have no issue saying that all soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, are doing more harm than good, and also continuing to help uphold twisted American hegemony. Unless you buy that we are in those countries for freedom and candy parties for the kids?
The facts are not so hidden, put them all on the table, look at them clearly, see potentials in them, use some sound logic.
America is an Empire, a system so corrupt, that it's lies and propaganda are so intricately woven into the DNA of it's people and control and influences of billions of people in the world.
The soldiers are in the front line of this, and like many soldiers in history, are used, at the same time what will it take for them to wake up? Really see what they are involved with. Not just that, but seeing how much power they hold.
It's really just sad, but at the same time we obviously must not take away any potential good in these soldiers, but the intent is to simply point out basic facts and how time/money and resources would be better spent in other directions, rather than brutal occupations.
The fuel for that machine is partly the votes we cast electing the leaders, and our overly sensitive selves blocking the truth. Allowing ourselves to be so ignorant towards the truth.
I like to think of my tax dollars going to support NASA and local schools, but what do you suggest? I'd stop paying taxes but I've learned from Wesley Snipes that it's probably not the best idea in the world. If I move to another country, I'm sure that they would want a cut as well. And my parents would probably reject the idea of letting me live in their basement rent free, so I'm in a pickle.
When I buy gas for my car, I can't be 100% certain that the money is funding militias overseas, but I am 100% certain that it is providing a paycheck for the person behind the counter (not that I want to fund their paycheck).
As for being sheep and blindly following our leaders, I had no better chance of getting Dubya on the blower back in 2001 to call off the Iraq invasion then I did sending a text message to Obama to call off the missile strike in Libya. Unless you don't have an income and live off the land (illegally), I guess you are a sheep in the flock of your country, but most people accusing others of being sheep are sheep themselves under that logic.
Back to the original topic, I'm still certain that I'm not responsible for a group of drug using sadistic murderers going on a killing spree a world away. The world is full of evil people.
yeah ... you'd like to think but unfortunately ... your tax dollars do a lot of things ...
you'd also like to absolve yourself from your consumption patterns by focusing on what you perceive to be the good ... ie buying gas so the gas attendant could have a paycheck ... look - we know oil companies fund paramilitary groups ... we also know oil companies fund a lot of these organizations that's sole purpose is to discredit environmentalists ... it's all so we can live in this mythical world ...
sure ... you're just one person ... but aren't we all ... aren't we supposed to be in a democracy .. if we ran a referendum on "should tax dollars be used to disrupt sovereign nation's government in order to create positive economic conditions for american corporations" ... what do you think the vote would be?
The images – more than 150 of which have been obtained by Rolling Stone – portray a front-line culture among U.S. troops in which killing innocent civilians is seen as a cause for celebration.
Nothing like generalizing the entire military based on the actions of a few.
I won't click on the pictures now, maybe later. From what I've read here, it is absolutely disgusting and shameful.
Only a few right? and what is the rest of the army doing? oh yes, taking part in brutal occupations for American Imperialism, is that any better? They all guilty, we are all guilty.
I understand how hard it must be for soldiers, but at the end of the day, they are doing wrong by being in Iraq/Afghanistan, and when people say "They are just following orders", that does very little to sway me, if anything that just shows the sheep mentality. It is really really sad.
you sound like you might be a follower or a sympathizer of the west burro baptist church.
banging on the military that protects our freedom is just plain crazy and before you go off on a rant
about AMERICAN IMPERIALISM look around and think where would my way of life and freedom be
without a strong military.
yeah ... you'd like to think but unfortunately ... your tax dollars do a lot of things ...
you'd also like to absolve yourself from your consumption patterns by focusing on what you perceive to be the good ... ie buying gas so the gas attendant could have a paycheck ... look - we know oil companies fund paramilitary groups ... we also know oil companies fund a lot of these organizations that's sole purpose is to discredit environmentalists ... it's all so we can live in this mythical world ...
sure ... you're just one person ... but aren't we all ... aren't we supposed to be in a democracy .. if we ran a referendum on "should tax dollars be used to disrupt sovereign nation's government in order to create positive economic conditions for american corporations" ... what do you think the vote would be?
Until technology improves, we are stuck with oil being a major part of our lives. Sad but true. And everyone is forced to pay taxes which supports everything from education to cruise missiles.
I've tried to argue that taxes should lowered for everyone and the federal budget needs to be cut drastically, but the general consensus here is that it would somehow erode the middle class while giving more power to the 2% elite. But when a military thread starts, everyone from Mt. Pious wants me to feel bad and guilty for paying taxes that support bombs and guns. It's quite a predicament I'm in. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
But I'm still not with you on everyone "being guilty" of the crimes of the 3rd platoon of the the striker brigade. If someone on welfare drowns their kids in a bathtub, technically I should assume the same guilt.
The soldiers in the army have the ability to stop the wars, all they have to do is not fight them. They also have very legal and human rights laws on their side. The right thing is to not continue fighting in the wars, yet they do.
What problem do you really have with my post? I mean once you strip away your own bias and ego, what basic facts are against my points?
I have no issue saying that all soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, are doing more harm than good, and also continuing to help uphold twisted American hegemony. Unless you buy that we are in those countries for freedom and candy parties for the kids?
The facts are not so hidden, put them all on the table, look at them clearly, see potentials in them, use some sound logic.
America is an Empire, a system so corrupt, that it's lies and propaganda are so intricately woven into the DNA of it's people and control and influences of billions of people in the world.
The soldiers are in the front line of this, and like many soldiers in history, are used, at the same time what will it take for them to wake up? Really see what they are involved with. Not just that, but seeing how much power they hold.
It's really just sad, but at the same time we obviously must not take away any potential good in these soldiers, but the intent is to simply point out basic facts and how time/money and resources would be better spent in other directions, rather than brutal occupations.
The fuel for that machine is partly the votes we cast electing the leaders, and our overly sensitive selves blocking the truth. Allowing ourselves to be so ignorant towards the truth.
this is true
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Until technology improves, we are stuck with oil being a major part of our lives. Sad but true. And everyone is forced to pay taxes which supports everything from education to cruise missiles.
I've tried to argue that taxes should lowered for everyone and the federal budget needs to be cut drastically, but the general consensus here is that it would somehow erode the middle class while giving more power to the 2% elite. But when a military thread starts, everyone from Mt. Pious wants me to feel bad and guilty for paying taxes that support bombs and guns. It's quite a predicament I'm in. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
But I'm still not with you on everyone "being guilty" of the crimes of the 3rd platoon of the the striker brigade. If someone on welfare drowns their kids in a bathtub, technically I should assume the same guilt.
the technology already exists to move from oil ... we only think we need the stuff ... the reality is the use of the stuff doesn't make much sense ...
it isn't the amount of taxes that is relevant - it is the way it is spent ... you can pay very little tax but if the money is just used to benefit massive corporations - why bother?
i don't expect most to side with me on this one ... no one likes feeling guilt ... just understand that everything is interconnected ... your influence may be minute but it's there ...
you sound like you might be a follower or a sympathizer of the west burro baptist church.
banging on the military that protects our freedom is just plain crazy and before you go off on a rant
about AMERICAN IMPERIALISM look around and think where would my way of life and freedom be
without a strong military.
Godfather.
Godfather.
i'm sorry godfather, but i just have to ask...
i always hate to read that simplistic viewpoint of soldiers defending my freedom. what freedom are those guys defending? the only freedom of mine that is at risk is that which has already been taken away from me by my own government. no soldier can give that back to me, unless they are willing to commit high treason and participate in a coup. and soldiers are too loyal and patriotic to do that sort of thing. so in essence, by carrying out their orders in these now 3 WARS they are helping you and i be less free.
the thing these monsters in this thread did, as well as those like them, have actually made you and i less safe.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
you sound like you might be a follower or a sympathizer of the west burro baptist church.
banging on the military that protects our freedom is just plain crazy and before you go off on a rant
about AMERICAN IMPERIALISM look around and think where would my way of life and freedom be
without a strong military.
Godfather.
Godfather.
i'm sorry godfather, but i just have to ask...
i always hate to read that simplistic viewpoint of soldiers defending my freedom. what freedom are those guys defending? the only freedom of mine that is at risk is that which has already been taken away from me by my own government. no soldier can give that back to me, unless they are willing to commit high treason and participate in a coup. and soldiers are too loyal and patriotic to do that sort of thing. so in essence, by carrying out their orders in these now 3 WARS they are helping you and i be less free.
the thing these monsters in this thread did, as well as those like them, have actually made you and i less safe.
think if our military was as weak as say that of the middle east or if we had no military ? even if we made it past Britain all those years ago we at the very least would have been over thrown by Russia or China or japan
years ago, any country with a formidable military would have had us a long time ago and the native Americans
would be a archaeological memory pushed into Alaska (not that we did em any favors) but do you get my point ?
I'll bet if it was not for the US south America would be taken over also. as horrible as war is and some of the people that do such horrible things like the kill team we still need a military to protect and to maintain our standard of living and freedom, granted it could be better but it could be a hell of a lot worse also. this is still as country's go a fairly new country and all things considered it a great place to be and improvements to our country will come from people like your self and mraberham and crap... all of us but we always need a military if we like it or not.
The military trains people to dehumanize others and therefore make it easier to kill them. Then they're thrown into a war which is a completely messed up situation beyond words and can permanently warp the strongest of minds. My guess is that most of these "monsters" were regular guys in the past, and likely still would be if they didn't enlist. Americans have this false sense that somehow our military is above this action. You can't take people, push them to the edge of insanity, and expect all of them to maintain a sense of right and wrong. Right and wrong is turned on it's head and scrambled in war. Vets that come home heros are often tortured emotionally with the fact that they did things they didn't think they could, and that they betrayed their own morals which they felt were sound in the past. This story speaks to the atrocities of war that happen in every war. It should be reviewed prior to and during our next war when the president gets and 80% approval rating and people are pumped full of "shock and awe".
The military trains people to dehumanize others and therefore make it easier to kill them. Then they're thrown into a war which is a completely messed up situation beyond words and can permanently warp the strongest of minds. My guess is that most of these "monsters" were regular guys in the past, and likely still would be if they didn't enlist. Americans have this false sense that somehow our military is above this action. You can't take people, push them to the edge of insanity, and expect all of them to maintain a sense of right and wrong. Right and wrong is turned on it's head and scrambled in war. Vets that come home heros are often tortured emotionally with the fact that they did things they didn't think they could, and that they betrayed their own morals which they felt were sound in the past. This story speaks to the atrocities of war that happen in every war. It should be reviewed prior to and during our next war when the president gets and 80% approval rating and people are pumped full of "shock and awe".
I agree the, the art of war takes victims on both sides.
this situation is not unique to just Americas Military, we've seen this on you tube and the news involving civilians and solders from other countries,it boils down to "the human element" or "the acts of MAN" as Chickweed said in the beginning of this thread. armed services around the world are unfortunate but necessary.
The military trains people to dehumanize others and therefore make it easier to kill them. Then they're thrown into a war which is a completely messed up situation beyond words and can permanently warp the strongest of minds. My guess is that most of these "monsters" were regular guys in the past, and likely still would be if they didn't enlist. Americans have this false sense that somehow our military is above this action. You can't take people, push them to the edge of insanity, and expect all of them to maintain a sense of right and wrong. Right and wrong is turned on it's head and scrambled in war. Vets that come home heros are often tortured emotionally with the fact that they did things they didn't think they could, and that they betrayed their own morals which they felt were sound in the past. This story speaks to the atrocities of war that happen in every war. It should be reviewed prior to and during our next war when the president gets and 80% approval rating and people are pumped full of "shock and awe".
I respectfully disagree. There is/was something extremely wrong with these individuals. Yes, enlisting might have aggravated it, but they had to be fucked up to commit these barbaric murders. Hundreds of thousands of other soldiers dont commit crimes like this.
The military trains people to dehumanize others and therefore make it easier to kill them. Then they're thrown into a war which is a completely messed up situation beyond words and can permanently warp the strongest of minds. My guess is that most of these "monsters" were regular guys in the past, and likely still would be if they didn't enlist. Americans have this false sense that somehow our military is above this action. You can't take people, push them to the edge of insanity, and expect all of them to maintain a sense of right and wrong. Right and wrong is turned on it's head and scrambled in war. Vets that come home heros are often tortured emotionally with the fact that they did things they didn't think they could, and that they betrayed their own morals which they felt were sound in the past. This story speaks to the atrocities of war that happen in every war. It should be reviewed prior to and during our next war when the president gets and 80% approval rating and people are pumped full of "shock and awe".
I respectfully disagree. There is/was something extremely wrong with these individuals. Yes, enlisting might have aggravated it, but they had to be fucked up to commit these barbaric murders. Hundreds of thousands of other soldiers dont commit crimes like this.
People's behavior changes with pretty mild changes in the environment. It's not a factor of chance that this group happened to be populated with murderers. The behaviors were created as a result of a mix of individuals responding to the larger group in turn responding to an insane situation. This situation has a high probability of occurring in other groups that are fighting there, but in this case there was a failure of leadership to dial back this behavior and related thinking. It's pretty easy to take the moral high road from behind our computers, but I don't think we should speak with certainty unless we've been there.
Better yet, turn him over to Afghanistan and let their courts handle it.
afghan courts should have handled this to begin with. or it should have been referred to the hague for war crimes proceedings.
i do not trust the american military justice system when it prosecutes war criminals for acts committed on foreign soil. it should have been an afghan issue or an international one. the us looks after it's own even when they kill innocent civilians...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I saw this earlier, and I don't think I've ever wished the death penalty on individuals as much as I do these animals. Actually, calling them animals is an insult to every animal on Earth. Words do not describe these bastards. Not only did they commit senseless, brutal murder to innocent civilians, they've also condemned honorable, good soldiers to death and ridicule. They should turn these shit piles over to the Afghan people and let them dole out the punishment. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
As long as you're for black prisons, Guantanamo, water-boarding, and execution for terrorist combatants also.
Comments
The soldiers in the army have the ability to stop the wars, all they have to do is not fight them. They also have very legal and human rights laws on their side. The right thing is to not continue fighting in the wars, yet they do.
What problem do you really have with my post? I mean once you strip away your own bias and ego, what basic facts are against my points?
I have no issue saying that all soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, are doing more harm than good, and also continuing to help uphold twisted American hegemony. Unless you buy that we are in those countries for freedom and candy parties for the kids?
The facts are not so hidden, put them all on the table, look at them clearly, see potentials in them, use some sound logic.
America is an Empire, a system so corrupt, that it's lies and propaganda are so intricately woven into the DNA of it's people and control and influences of billions of people in the world.
The soldiers are in the front line of this, and like many soldiers in history, are used, at the same time what will it take for them to wake up? Really see what they are involved with. Not just that, but seeing how much power they hold.
It's really just sad, but at the same time we obviously must not take away any potential good in these soldiers, but the intent is to simply point out basic facts and how time/money and resources would be better spent in other directions, rather than brutal occupations.
The fuel for that machine is partly the votes we cast electing the leaders, and our overly sensitive selves blocking the truth. Allowing ourselves to be so ignorant towards the truth.
yeah ... you'd like to think but unfortunately ... your tax dollars do a lot of things ...
you'd also like to absolve yourself from your consumption patterns by focusing on what you perceive to be the good ... ie buying gas so the gas attendant could have a paycheck ... look - we know oil companies fund paramilitary groups ... we also know oil companies fund a lot of these organizations that's sole purpose is to discredit environmentalists ... it's all so we can live in this mythical world ...
sure ... you're just one person ... but aren't we all ... aren't we supposed to be in a democracy .. if we ran a referendum on "should tax dollars be used to disrupt sovereign nation's government in order to create positive economic conditions for american corporations" ... what do you think the vote would be?
you sound like you might be a follower or a sympathizer of the west burro baptist church.
banging on the military that protects our freedom is just plain crazy and before you go off on a rant
about AMERICAN IMPERIALISM look around and think where would my way of life and freedom be
without a strong military.
Godfather.
Godfather.
I've tried to argue that taxes should lowered for everyone and the federal budget needs to be cut drastically, but the general consensus here is that it would somehow erode the middle class while giving more power to the 2% elite. But when a military thread starts, everyone from Mt. Pious wants me to feel bad and guilty for paying taxes that support bombs and guns. It's quite a predicament I'm in. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
But I'm still not with you on everyone "being guilty" of the crimes of the 3rd platoon of the the striker brigade. If someone on welfare drowns their kids in a bathtub, technically I should assume the same guilt.
this is true
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
the technology already exists to move from oil ... we only think we need the stuff ... the reality is the use of the stuff doesn't make much sense ...
it isn't the amount of taxes that is relevant - it is the way it is spent ... you can pay very little tax but if the money is just used to benefit massive corporations - why bother?
i don't expect most to side with me on this one ... no one likes feeling guilt ... just understand that everything is interconnected ... your influence may be minute but it's there ...
i always hate to read that simplistic viewpoint of soldiers defending my freedom. what freedom are those guys defending? the only freedom of mine that is at risk is that which has already been taken away from me by my own government. no soldier can give that back to me, unless they are willing to commit high treason and participate in a coup. and soldiers are too loyal and patriotic to do that sort of thing. so in essence, by carrying out their orders in these now 3 WARS they are helping you and i be less free.
the thing these monsters in this thread did, as well as those like them, have actually made you and i less safe.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
think if our military was as weak as say that of the middle east or if we had no military ? even if we made it past Britain all those years ago we at the very least would have been over thrown by Russia or China or japan
years ago, any country with a formidable military would have had us a long time ago and the native Americans
would be a archaeological memory pushed into Alaska (not that we did em any favors) but do you get my point ?
I'll bet if it was not for the US south America would be taken over also. as horrible as war is and some of the people that do such horrible things like the kill team we still need a military to protect and to maintain our standard of living and freedom, granted it could be better but it could be a hell of a lot worse also. this is still as country's go a fairly new country and all things considered it a great place to be and improvements to our country will come from people like your self and mraberham and crap... all of us but we always need a military if we like it or not.
Godfather.
I agree the, the art of war takes victims on both sides.
this situation is not unique to just Americas Military, we've seen this on you tube and the news involving civilians and solders from other countries,it boils down to "the human element" or "the acts of MAN" as Chickweed said in the beginning of this thread. armed services around the world are unfortunate but necessary.
Godfather.
I respectfully disagree. There is/was something extremely wrong with these individuals. Yes, enlisting might have aggravated it, but they had to be fucked up to commit these barbaric murders. Hundreds of thousands of other soldiers dont commit crimes like this.
People's behavior changes with pretty mild changes in the environment. It's not a factor of chance that this group happened to be populated with murderers. The behaviors were created as a result of a mix of individuals responding to the larger group in turn responding to an insane situation. This situation has a high probability of occurring in other groups that are fighting there, but in this case there was a failure of leadership to dial back this behavior and related thinking. It's pretty easy to take the moral high road from behind our computers, but I don't think we should speak with certainty unless we've been there.
http://news.yahoo.com/us-soldier-gets-life-sentence-afghan-killings-024116265.html
The military doesn't typically use capital punishment in sentencing (ironically), but I wouldn't mind making an exception for this scumbag.
Better yet, turn him over to Afghanistan and let their courts handle it.
i do not trust the american military justice system when it prosecutes war criminals for acts committed on foreign soil. it should have been an afghan issue or an international one. the us looks after it's own even when they kill innocent civilians...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
As long as you're for black prisons, Guantanamo, water-boarding, and execution for terrorist combatants also.
Im sure you are though, right?